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Liverpool Thread

Re: Liverpool Thread

YoungGun_UK said:
"Minds" was meant to say "Finds" :)) Benitez hasnt signed any real quality players in those two positions and if he does then you'll have a better chance of winning the league

Im off to the United thread now (Also loved how you called it the "Manchester Thread" some City fan must have had a heart attack)
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We all know that the City of Manchester is all evil asi the city of Liverpool is all red.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

kevano22 said:
I agree with the points - but Skrtel at right back when you have Carra there too...thats a simple fucking plan right there - dont put Skrtel right :LOL:
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Apparently Carra had cramps, and didn't want to play at right back. Which begs the question, why did he play anyways?
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Abhishek good post, but I don't think I agree with everything you said. I don't honestly believe you are a team that furiously attacks like you say, and I do believe Rafa plays negative football. It is what he does best. Do I hate that? Yes. But is there something wrong with that in technical terms? No.

The fact that you were attacking in Middlesbrough game and other games is not enough proof that you guys are trying to play positive football. Football tends to fold out naturally. The stronger team with the stronger squad will naturally gain control of the game and press on. This is really not a testament to your points. In reality, the fact that you guys are lacking that 'killer edge' like you said is the testament to the counter-argument. Your team's mentality, strategy, and squad (all designed by the hands of Rafa) are the reason for this lacking.

What is a liable indicator is when you play stronger or equal teams. After all, I think it would be ridiculous to imagine Liverpool trying to break Middlsebrough's (however the hell you spell it) game even after they have conceded. A close look at your team's performances against the other top 8 teams of EPL comes out with 8 draws(5 of them 0-0), and 3 wins. Pretty impressive, but enough to be champions in this league? One could say this is out of context, but you cannot deny this gives the impression that your team is more concerned about not losing than winning.

Even if we say that this is irrelevant, what about Rafa's plans. You say Rafa is building the squad for the future. Yes, but he has already been building the squad for seasons. I think this team right now is pretty close to the team Rafa would have ideally. It's not like over the summer, Rafa is going to completely revitalize the squad. You say you are lacking that creative/offensive player. It is because Rafa chooses not to have that type of player on the team. Just look at this summer. Who was Rafa's no 1 target. Gareth Barry. And he was willing to sacrifice maybe your most creative midfielder for him. Does that move fit in with the type of vision and team you are proposing. For me it does not, in fact it looks like a step backwards ( Would having Barry today assure you the championship? I doubt it could even make a worthwhile impact. In fact, I am almost 100% you guys would be worse off without Alonso).

If I was a Liverpool fan would I want to continue with Rafa? I don't know. I probably would since it is so hard to break everything down and start over. This team is Rafa's team from the ground up and it took a lot of effort to get this far. It would take a whole lot more ( a great manager, a financially able and morally willing board, a fan base patient and understanding enough to bear a couple of years away from success, and luck )to start over. And even if you do start over, there is no guarantee it will be a success. You could end up a total failure like Tottenham in such a situation. It depends on whether you really want to push to become the greater team than Chelsea, ManU, and Arsenal or are you happy enough just hanging around them? So I probably would want Rafa (if I was a fan and looked back to the performances of the club before Rafa) to stick around, but only in serious hopes that he changes his mentality along the way. Because I believe with this type of team, this type of football, Liverpool fans today are already seeing most of the maximum potential. Hoping to gain a championship and consistent success would be being too hopeful. But what I would not do is deny what Rafa is, and what he is trying to do. (Not necessarily saying you are doing that.)

On a side note, Jose quite possibly is overrated, but his success at Porto cannot be denied. Those batch of players were never considered 'top class' players before Jose came over them, and most of them never enjoyed the success they had with Jose later in their careers. I also think Jose knows how to use his squad really well and how to make teams champions. But I don't believe he has great vision such as Ferguson or Wenger, and I think he can be lackluster at times in the tactical department as well. But at the end of the day, he knows what is required to be succesful. Well, anyways. I could care less about Mourinho. He may or may not be overrated, but he is definitely overtalked.
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread

Abhishek said:
Shocking anyone can compare Rafa with Mourinho. Jose is overrated, and is basically been handed the two most expensively assembled squads in the last decade (Inter and Chelsea). His teams play awful, awful football, far worse than Rafa's teams, he hasn't a clue tactically. And he's never cared for his club. He won't stay at a club to build a dynasty. He simply whores himself out until a club has resources, then goes away.

And don't give me that Porto bullshit. He had world class players like Carvalho, Deco. And players like Carlos Alberto, Costinha, and Maniche who were one of the best during that time.

Talk about replacing Rafa, you talk about replacement, and who do you have? I've said my views on Jose. Who else? Mancini, perhaps, but he's struggled in Europe. Rijkaard, who can't man manage, and again, zero tactical awareness. There are no alternatives.

I'll keep it simple, when Ferguson goes, we'll have the best manager in the league. Rafa has a vision, a project, and he needs to see it through. Nothing, NOTHING will be achieved by sacking him. He'll be given true control from the summer, and then we'll see how he plans his project. He's not perfect, but there's no one else I'd rather have. I've presented my case. I won't listen to the rotation, zonal marking, negative, cup manager, yada, yada, yada of Sky. Don't care, I have an opinion of my own. Rafa's in the top league of managers. Him, Ferguson, Capello, Ancelotti. That's the top league of managers. He's there. He's taking Liverpool there as well.
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I agree with you. I think that the only manager that the only manager who is better than Rafa is Wenger, but he 'll never come to our team, so we should keep Rafa although I don understand what are players like Lucas, el Zhar, N'Gog doing in our team. Where this players bought by Rafa or by the manager ?
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

With the money spent by Benitez compared to O'Neill and Moyes, I would put Benitez in about 5th.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

and even then he's miles behind, in terms of man management and his recent record in the transfer market is pretty poor!! Fergies in a different league to Wenger
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Harry Redknapp and Sam Allardyce are better than all of them, even Fergie looks up to them.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

I put Rafa behind Alex and Wenger, surely anybody else in the EPL isn't as good :)
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

@ Abishek - I just can't agree on pool being an attacking side. Yes, against crap bottom of the prem teams they do have more of the ball in the final third. That's to be expected. But the second they play against better opposition, Rafa sends out 2 DMFs and dirk kuyt as a ride sided DMF. It seems like if either of those DMFs cross the halfway line, they'll somehow get a shock, as it almost never happens. His success in the CL is filled with very, very close games that have just slipped his way. I give him credit for keeping them close, but I've never seen Liverpool show up in a major game and go for the jugular.

It's fine, football is about both attacking and defending, and it's all very close. Which is probably why it works out that Rafa doesn't win the league - due to the skewing of 3 points for a win. He doesn't often lose, but that means he doens't win as often. Until he corrects that, it won't change.

What I wonder about is the money thing - say he signs david villa this summer, what formation is he going to use? He doesn't trust Gerrard to sit in the centre as a CMF (and to be fair Stevie does tend to go on walkabouts) but has to play him. It would almost have to be a chelsea-like narrow 4 - with Alonso, Macherano, Kuyt and Gerrard in a dimaond behind the front 2. I can't ever see Rafa doing this. he likes the control of a 5 man, tight midfield. Anyway, rambling a bit, but my point remains - he's defensive minded and dull. :)
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Class post AK.Rabona, I think If Pool signed Villa then Gerrard would move to the RW. but why change to a 4-4-2 when the 4-2-3-1 has worked so well?

Sign RW and two full backs. (This has been said over the last two summers!)
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

In theory, the current formation with Alonso and Mascherano holding, and lets say Gerrard, Babel and Kuyt roaming around Torres should work really, really well but for some reason there's rarely any fluidity and pace about Liverpool, it all seems so subdued, which surely is down to Rafa's instructions on how they should all play. It's a strange one.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

yes going from Valencia to number 1 ranked team in Europe by UEFA themselves would be a step down.

Honestly, fuck off if you don't have anything constructive to play.

And no, we are not an attacking team.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

im just saying its indredibly deluded to think youll get villa, i bet torres is cursing his luck that he joined you!!
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

matherto said:
:CONFUSE::CONFUSE::CONFUSE:
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Matherto, what is to be confused about that? Porto hadn't won the league since 98 season until Mourinho came in to the club. TBH, I'm not a follower of Portugese league and I don't follow Porto or anything like that, but I have read up on Mourinho's career a bit. It's not as if Porto's squad was a goldmine or full of coveted players. They came on to the radar after success with Jose. Most of those players reached their peaks after Mourinho came in to the squad and some of them failed to reach that level ever again. I can think of one clear example in Postiga.

I think crediting Mourinho's successes, especially the one's at Porto, to him coming to teams with good squads is just not being fair. Then what would make Capello, or Lippi, or Ancelotti good coaches? They have been at top clubs all their careers with great squads. Anywyas, the mourinho thing was a little section of my post and I don't really feel like talking more about the matter especially when I feel it is off-topic. :D



And YoungGun, thank you.
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread

aww peter did i touch a nerve, theres no way lpool should be ranked 1 by UEFA - if that is true - which i very much doubt it, since the last trophy u won was all down to stevie GBH!! You havent won anything in 3 years - so if it is true it shows just how clueless UEFA really are!
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Do you even know how they work out who is number one ranked? It's not voted for by a 5 member panel,
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

im just saying its rubbish, surely you're judged on silverware!! or is it european anti man united bias again??
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

In the last 5 years, United have won the Champions League once, whereas Liverpool have won that and the Uefa Cup plus got to the CL final another time and qualified for latter stages more often, therefore they are better in Europe than anyone else over the last five years.

EDIT: just realised the UEFA cup was more than five years ago, but the point still stands.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

utd would walk the uefa cup every yr, but we've got bigger fish to fry! lpool shouldnt even quality for the CHAMPIONS league!! its become a farce how they get in every yr!
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

plus you may have got to 2 finals in the last decade, in the ch league, but you lost one of them!! when milan ripped you to shreds!
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Well then Barca shouldn't be in either, and Juventus, Villareal, Atletico etc etc etc etc.

You're argument is void and pointless. Forget the name, it's just a tournament for the best European teams.

And Milan ripped us to shreds that same season.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

beachryan said:
@ Abishek - I just can't agree on pool being an attacking side. Yes, against crap bottom of the prem teams they do have more of the ball in the final third. That's to be expected. But the second they play against better opposition, Rafa sends out 2 DMFs and dirk kuyt as a ride sided DMF. It seems like if either of those DMFs cross the halfway line, they'll somehow get a shock, as it almost never happens. His success in the CL is filled with very, very close games that have just slipped his way. I give him credit for keeping them close, but I've never seen Liverpool show up in a major game and go for the jugular.

It's fine, football is about both attacking and defending, and it's all very close. Which is probably why it works out that Rafa doesn't win the league - due to the skewing of 3 points for a win. He doesn't often lose, but that means he doens't win as often. Until he corrects that, it won't change.

What I wonder about is the money thing - say he signs david villa this summer, what formation is he going to use? He doesn't trust Gerrard to sit in the centre as a CMF (and to be fair Stevie does tend to go on walkabouts) but has to play him. It would almost have to be a chelsea-like narrow 4 - with Alonso, Macherano, Kuyt and Gerrard in a dimaond behind the front 2. I can't ever see Rafa doing this. he likes the control of a 5 man, tight midfield. Anyway, rambling a bit, but my point remains - he's defensive minded and dull. :)
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I never said we were an attacking side. It's stupid to label a team attacking as such anyways. The point you made was that Rafa is negative, doesn't go for the win etc etc. As I say, how can you claim that after seeing any of our games against the bottom 15 teams? Rafa goes for the attack in those games, as much as any Top 4 team. The fact that we're unable to score, or hold onto our leads is due to a lack of cutting edge, and a poor defense as I've said. NOTHING to do with tactics. Rafa goes for the win. Simple as that. Even in the big games, he sets up such a way, that we have a chance on the counter.

As about the way we play in Europe against the better teams, it's simple. We don't have better players than Real Madrid/Inter/Barcelona. So we set up in such a way, to cancel out their players, and make ourselves more effective. Hell every team does that in Europe. It's just that Rafa is so much better at doing that.

And wait, Martin O'fucking Neill is better than Rafa? Oh dear god. Fucking percentage football twat, who's spent more than Rafa this summer, and spent almost 8M on Curtis Davies, 6M on Young, 7M on Petrov. He's worse than Rafa in the transfer market. FFS.

And David Moyes? Still shitting it in Europe, eh? Rafa won the Champions League with a squad worse than what Moyes has. Nuff said.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

yeh they ripped us against a reserve defence, people forget we actually won that 1st leg very impressively!!
 
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