Ligue 1

[aitken]

Re: Ligue 1 - 11/12

I've lost tons of sympathy for Leonardo since he's in Paris. I sincerely hope he's the next who gets the sack. Kambouaré did a great job.

I hope Lille, Montpellier or any other club except PSG becomes champions.

agree, it's sad times when your top of the league and you still get sacked. i just hope rene girard can keep montpellier to winning ways and really like them to see them win it.

 

[gerd]

Re: Ligue 1 - 11/12

In a way PSG did underachieve with all those invested millions, but Kambouaré is hardly to blame IMO. Those abundantly rich owners don't have patience...they don't have a clue about football. They think teams don't need time to gel.

And about Leonardo, im' pretty sure he sacked Kambouaré to divert the attention...he is the one who could have been sacked...well i guess he's next now. I wonder who will replace Kambouaré, some high profile coach like Ancelloti or Hiddink (if he isn't already at Anzhi).

 

[tuta]

Re: Ligue 1 - 11/12

I'm pretty sure Leonardo is the Qatari's puppet and does not take any decision for the club.

 

[PLF]

Re: Ligue 1 - 11/12

Rafa Benitez maybe.

 

[Eyel3ss]

Re: Ligue 1 - 11/12

When a new investor buy a club, they usually bring their own coach and staff. QSI just didn´t find the right one at time as they arrive late (august I think) and keeping Kombouare was the best solution to make the "transition" and the results show it as he brought the team to the 1st position.
But now, knowing that kombouare will be replaced, what is the meaning to keep him 6 months more even if the team is ranked 1st?
Now QSI have the coach that they want, they will have the players that they want and the whole team have 6 months to be ready for next year which will be the "real" first season for QSI as without Champions league the team has no visibility in Europe and the World.
Football is business, welcome to the Capitalism!

 

[gerd]

Re: Ligue 1 - 11/12

You speak about CL football as if PSG are the big favourites in the CL. How are they doing in the Euro League?

 

[The_Special_One]

Re: Ligue 1 - 11/12

You speak about CL football as if PSG are the big favourites in the CL. How are they doing in the Euro League?

They're out.

btw, Ancelotti is a great signing (if true) but c'mon, sacking a coach when he's in 1st place? I just don't get.

I use to follow a french journalist, Olivier Bonamici, who works for Eurosport Portugal (he has been here for almost 15 years) and he wrote on his facebook that PSG wants to be a "sexy club" and he explains his own concept saying those new owners want to bring in marquee coaches and players like Ancelotti and Beckham in order to grab more and more fans around the World. Basically, this is all about a marketing campaign, a "Galactico part 2" in the making according to Bonamici.

 

[Eyel3ss]

Re: Ligue 1 - 11/12

You speak about CL football as if PSG are the big favourites in the CL. How are they doing in the Euro League?

Did you read my post before to reply?
I never said that Paris is a big favourite I just said:

without Champions league the team has no visibility in Europe and the World

I am sorry but the only competiton that matter is the CL, europa league is nothing.
Sacking a coach who has good results is nothing exceptional, it is not the first time that this happens, neither the last...
If you want a sport which deals with feelings, football is definitely not the one made for you...

Regarding the "good results" of Kombouare I would recommand you to watch this (if you speak french):
http://video.lequipe.fr/video/football/le-blog-de-roustan-adieu-l-antoine/?sig=iLyROoafr6tH

 

[gerd]

Re: Ligue 1 - 11/12

If you want a sport which deals with feelings, football is definitely not the one made for you...

First of all: i watched that video (and my French is superb): that guy is an idiot.

Concerning the above quote: if you don't think football is not about feelings, why are you a fan? Football is only about feelings and sentiments. If it wasn't about feelings, it would not be the most popular sport in the world.

I can understand that you are glad that your favourite team suddenly has all that money and can buy fantastic players. Unlike many others i don't have anything against clubs like Man City, Chelsea and now PSG. But with all the money, PSG is seriously underachieving. Is that Kambouaré to blame? I don't think so. When Ligue 1 started i was on holiday in France and read L' Equipe and watched French television. Kambouaré was under attack from the very first match and it never really stopped. He got ultimatum after ultimatum. That is not good for a football team. Players (like other people) need continuity and quiet...It was Leonardo's task to provide this...he never succeeded to do this. IMO he is the one who should be sacked.

PSG and Leonardo are making the same mistake as Chelsea and Abramovich: having all the money in the world is not enough to have a good football team (although it can help enormously). All those players and their coaches need time to gel...

I hope Antoine will quickly find another team and can beat PSG with that team.

 

[Eyel3ss]

Re: Ligue 1 - 11/12

No offense, I said "if you speak french" just because I don't know where you're from.
And someone who has an opinion different that yours doesn't make him an idiot.
What I wanted to say it that Konbouaré was supposed to be replaced since the beginning. Qsi just didn't find a coach on time for some reasons: they arrived late, they didn't achieved the negociation, anyway.
The point is that a new coach was supposed to come. Now the team is ranked 1st so everybody is in "chock". But no matter the results a new coach would come.
Now I am agree that the media (l'equipe and others) attacked him always and each game was "the last for Kombouaré unless the team wins". But the media has always talked a lot of Paris and will surely do it more and more.

Now there is 2 opinions opposed regarding money in football. Mine is that it is a good things that new teams like Manchester City and now Paris have the same financial powers than MU, Barca, Real etc... The cards are redistributed!
and to see Beckham in the french ligue (even a 36-years-old-Becks) is something just amazing!

 

[gerd]

Re: Ligue 1 - 11/12

No offense taken.
It's not because this guy has another opinion that i think he's an idiot, but i won't bore you with that. i've seen other clips from him and i simply don't like him (of course that is very subjective).

I agree with you on money in football, but there are limits. i don't like what's happening in the Caucasus were clubs like Grozny and Anzhi become big because they are the toys of crooks...
Apart from that it's good that there is redistribution on an European level, but what about France? How are clubs like Sochaux, Valenciennes, Brest and even Montpellier supposed to compete against PSG?
What would have been your reaction if QSI had invested it's money in L'OM or Olympique Lyonnais? I doubt you would have been happy.

On the other hand: every fan (including me) wants a QSI for his favourite club.

 

[Eyel3ss]

Re: Ligue 1 - 11/12

For the moment it is Paris, but investors will be intersting in buying other french teams. Anceloti, Beckham, the french ligue 1 will become attractive. When you see Joe Cole signing in Lille this year, with top players in Paris, the french ligue will grow and some goods players will come as well in the other teams.
Now you talk of teams like Sochaux, Valenciennes etc... but in Spain who can compete with Real and Barca? in England who can compete with MU, City, Chelsea? in Germany how many time Bayern won the championship?
France needs like in other leagues to have 3-4 teams who can dominate the league to become competitive in European competitions, Just like OM and Paris were in the 90's.....the only 2 french teams winning a european cup.

Now I am agree with you in some points, I was also sad for Kombouaré as I liked him and he made a great job, but unfortunately, if Paris want to become a big team they need to invest money just like City did. I remember Man City 2 years ago, everybody were critizing them, but today they are leading the league and the people start to take them seriously.
Give "only" 100 k€ salary per month to the Barca and Madrid players and we'll see If Messi and Ronaldo still want to play there. Barça, Madrid, MU etc will not downgrade to the financial level of PAris SG, so PSG has to come to them....

 

[gerd]

Re: Ligue 1 - 11/12

IMO the last thing Ligue 1 needs is something similar to La Liga. In the long term both Real Madrid and Barcelona will suffer from their dominance. Right at the moment they bot want an Euro League, but other clubs don't want that...La Liga is becoming the SPL (Scotland), this is never good for a league...
Personally i want leagues were there are 7 or 8 contenders, teams like Montpellier, Sochaux and Valenciennes should be able to win the league now and then...

 

[gomito#10]

Re: Ligue 1 - 11/12

IMO the last thing Ligue 1 needs is something similar to La Liga. In the long term both Real Madrid and Barcelona will suffer from their dominance. Right at the moment they bot want an Euro League, but other clubs don't want that...La Liga is becoming the SPL (Scotland), this is never good for a league...
Personally i want leagues were there are 7 or 8 contenders, teams like Montpellier, Sochaux and Valenciennes should be able to win the league now and then...

i think this is an interesting concept(football capitalism in europe) and very ironic in general that the European game(football) coming from more socialist style ideologies (at least more then the US) is starkly different then the socialist almost communist style of sports we have in the US such as hockey, football and our MLS(baseball and nba not so much), where are personal ideologies are more capitalist. In fact I know many people around the world think of MLS as a joke, but it is remarkable the strides it has made in terms of attendance, popularity, and long term profitability. The last two words being key. MLS is making a strong argument for salary caps and profit sharing the key to acheiving long term ecnomic success in football. Where the book soccernomics has clearly made the argument that the eurpoean free football market is an utter failure. Its funny how many stupid americans think socialist ideals are ideas of the devil yet they root like crazy for there NFL teams, LOL

 

[gerd]

Re: Ligue 1 - 11/12

Interesting post gomito, i tend to agree with it (although Europe is much less socialist than most Americans think, most liberals and christian democrats would be seen as socialists in the USA).

I'm a big fan of the way Americans organize their sports. If football really wants to survive in the long term then it should organize like American sports do. I'm all for a salary cap and the draft system like it's done in basket (to be honest i know nothing about baseball, American football and Ice hockey).

Could you be more specific about that book Gomito (i'm currently reading Moneyball and thoroughly enjoying it).

 

[lo zio]

Re: Ligue 1 - 11/12

i think this is an interesting concept(football capitalism in europe) and very ironic in general that the European game(football) coming from more socialist style ideologies (at least more then the US) is starkly different then the socialist almost communist style of sports we have in the US such as hockey, football and our MLS(baseball and nba not so much), where are personal ideologies are more capitalist. In fact I know many people around the world think of MLS as a joke, but it is remarkable the strides it has made in terms of attendance, popularity, and long term profitability. The last two words being key. MLS is making a strong argument for salary caps and profit sharing the key to acheiving long term ecnomic success in football. Where the book soccernomics has clearly made the argument that the eurpoean free football market is an utter failure. Its funny how many stupid americans think socialist ideals are ideas of the devil yet they root like crazy for there NFL teams, LOL

that's an absolutely brilliant observation mate .
i was talking about that with some friends just a few weeks ago, and we all agreed about how ironic it is that the nfl is inspired to clearely socialists principles, whereas europe's football\soccer leagues became the stronghold of european capitalism.

although Europe is much less socialist than most Americans think, most liberals and christian democrats would be seen as socialists in the USA

i'm not sure about that, Gerd. i can't talk about belgium, but i can definitely say that even the most harcore, right-aligned italian capitalist would be seen as a naive socialist in usa.

 

[gomito#10]

Re: Ligue 1 - 11/12

Interesting post gomito, i tend to agree with it (although Europe is much less socialist than most Americans think, most liberals and christian democrats would be seen as socialists in the USA).

I'm a big fan of the way Americans organize their sports. If football really wants to survive in the long term then it should organize like American sports do. I'm all for a salary cap and the draft system like it's done in basket (to be honest i know nothing about baseball, American football and Ice hockey).

Could you be more specific about that book Gomito (i'm currently reading Moneyball and thoroughly enjoying it).

soccernomics, simon kuper and some american guy wrote it.... money ball is an awesome book, you will want to buy MLB the show now that you have read that

http://www.amazon.com/Soccernomics-Australia-Turkey-Iraq-Are-Destined/dp/1568584253

 

[gomito#10]

Re: Ligue 1 - 11/12

that's an absolutely brilliant observation mate .
i was talking about that with some friends just a few weeks ago, and we all agreed about how ironic it is that the nfl is inspired to clearely socialists principles, whereas europe's football\soccer leagues became the stronghold of european capitalism.

i'm not sure about that, Gerd. i can't talk about belgium, but i can definitely say that even the most harcore, right-aligned italian capitalist would be seen as a naive socialist in usa.

now one point you all have to remember, the NFL is given permission or exclusion from anti trust laws because essentially they have created a monopoly, which is illegal in the usa(in principle). The NFL also is not for your avg joe, its very expensive to go to a game, beers are anywhere from $8 to $15, a hot dog is $5, etc... and shitty tickets are $50 to $75. In certain stadiums you have to buy a personal seat license in addition to each ticket. The fan gets really fucked in this instance. The fans do keep comming however, and well quite frankly if you dont have the money dont go

 

[gerd]

Re: Ligue 1 - 11/12

Thanks gomito...

Something totally off-topic (i'm sorry): did you watch Friday Night Lights?

To me this is the second best television series ever (only The Wire is better), i really enjoyed the first two seasons...i have season 3 and 4 on DVD too...

PS: for those who don't know Friday Night Lights is about a school football team in a Texan town...

 

[gomito#10]

Re: Ligue 1 - 11/12

Thanks gomito...

Something totally off-topic (i'm sorry): did you watch Friday Night Lights?

To me this is the second best television series ever (only The Wire is better), i really enjoyed the first two seasons...i have season 3 and 4 on DVD too...

PS: for those who don't know Friday Night Lights is about a school football team in a Texan town...

yeah but never thought it was that great, loved the music though... the book is much much better brother...

 

[gerd]

Re: Ligue 1 - 11/12

I have the book, but still have to read it.

 

[PLF]

Re: Ligue 1 - 11/12

I can already see it... Kambouare to be named Bordeaux boss once Gillot is sacked.

 

[Eyel3ss]

Re: Ligue 1 - 11/12

Evian TG coach Bernard Casoni replaced by Pablo Correa
(http://www.lemonde.fr/sport/article...onon-gaillard_1624883_3242.html#xtor=RSS-3208)

Bernard Casoni led Evian TG from National (3rd division) to 1st division in 2 years, and the team is now ranked 11th which is very hnourable for the first season of the team in 1st division.

ok, it is not PSG so it is not a "big deal", but still it shows that a coach can have good results and be fired...

 

[PLF]

Re: Ligue 1 - 11/12

Yeah it's happening all over the world really. Doesn't make it right but it's the way it is and someone like Carlo (Or Rafa Benitez - a BIG name coach) was always supposed to be the man leading PSG into new heights.

 

[cfdh_edmundo]

Re: Ligue 1 - 11/12

Personally I don't have a major problem with PSG spending big this season. Lyon had never won the league until 2001, aside from winning the cup a few times in the 1960s they had no history. Yet they won 7 titles in a row and some of them by margins as embarassing as the top two in La Liga, 15 points one year and 17 points clear the next. For much of the 2000s France was one of the most predictable big leagues in Europe. They would cherry pick the top players from other teams (Essien from Bastia, Malouda from Guinguamp, Abidal and Kader Kieta from Lille, Kallstrom and Reveillere from Rennes, Toulalan from Nantes). Yet despite having almost total first picks on the best talent in the league they still did nothing in terms of European competition. The decade before both Marseilles and PSG had won European trophies, but Lyons never even made it to a semi final until 2010 (when they beat another french team Bordeaux in the quarter finals). All this dominance in the french league, yet they couldnt do nearly as well as Porto in European competition.

Lyon's dominance systematically made the french league weaker from 2000 for almost 10 years, they never really signed good players from other leagues - they just made their rivals weaker. In the end they started to rot and other teams like Bordeaux, Marseilles and Lille got good coaches and were able to keep hold of players and these teams started to pose a threat to Lyon. If PSG sign players like Kaka, Pastore etc they are bringing up the standard of the league, and that way they might be able to have an impact in European competition. Maybe then France can compete with Spain, Germany and England and get 4 CL places, instead of being in danger of cutting to 2, which will be much better for the league. It will mean teams like Lille and Bordeaux will have much higher chance of getting CL experience so they should do better in the CL in the long run.

 

[gerd]

Re: Ligue 1 - 11/12

What good is it for a league if only one club can afford these high profile players? You will need a couple of others that can attract players like Pastore to make the league competitive.

I also think you are too harsh for Olympique Lyonnais.
And concerning Marseille: yes they won the CL, but they were led by two bog crooks (president Tapie and coach Raymond Goethals) who wanted to win with all means. Tapie is even convicted for it and Marseille got relegated as a sanction...that is not a very good example how things should be done Edmundo...

 

[cfdh_edmundo]

Re: Ligue 1 - 11/12

But Lyonnais were effectivly an "all-star" team from the French league, as I said from the year 2000 they used to sign almost every good player playing at a rival French club. They were able to do this with CL money from getting into the group stage year after year, but despite being an all star team they utterly underachieved in Europe. There were issues with the chairman at Marseilles, but they got to the CL final twice, and signed players like Voeller and Boksic, which activly improved the league. A better example is when PSG won the Cup Winnners Cup in 1996, look at some of the players they had during that era, Rai, Leonardo, Valdo, all these became great players who PSG took a risk on, signing from other leagues and improving the quality of players in the French league. Even when PSG were less sucessfull they still tried to sign good players from other leagues. Players like Hugo Leal, Okocha, Marco Simeone, Pochettino, Gabriel Heinze, Sorin, Rozehnal, Ronaldinho were from other leagues and added quality to the French league. There were risks and some players like Sergei Semak, Wörns, Carlos Bueno never quite adapted to the French league, but PSG were so much more adventerous in their signings than Lyons who just re-cycled existing Ligue 1 players into their squad and never really improved the quality of the French league despite being able to offer guarenteed CL football and a league winner's medal each season.

 

[gerd]

Re: Ligue 1 - 11/12

One could also argue that Lyon gave chances to young players (Ben Arfa, Benzema, Gonalons) and also took risks with others (Malouda seems less gamble with hindshigt now, but when he first played for Lyon the fans called him Laurent Malardoit, he was far from an accomplished player and that is only one example).
If i have to choose between a club who buys foreigners or one that buys young domestic players, i 'll always choose the latter...
I prefer what Olympique Lyonnais did to what PSG did, although i have to admit that they gambled with some of these players...what they did is very usefull for football in general..what Lyon does is good for French football.

 

[cfdh_edmundo]

Re: Ligue 1 - 11/12

You're giving them a bit too much of credit by saying they "gave Ben Arfa a chance", he's Parisienne, and was playing for a local team (Billancourt) and then went to Clairefontaine (the big training center for all French young players) by this stage he was pretty well known even on tv in France, and lots of clubs were trying to sign him. Ajax, Arsenal, Strasbourg, Lens and Chelsea were all trying to sign him - he was good enough to have got his chance, Lyon didn't really "nuture" his talent, it was already there, they just made the best bid for him. I don't think you can say Malouda was a risk at all, he had already played very well for Guingamp in Ligue 1, he had played very well under Lacombe and set up a lot of Drogba's goals for the club - he wasnt very expensive and was already a proven ligue 1 player.

I don't think Lyon were really that good for French football, as I've said in previous posts they only signed established Ligue 1 players, they didn't increase the quality of players in the league (there was no signing like Ronaldinho at PSG or Völler at OM), they didn't strengthen the standard of player in the league with their signings.

Also take a look at the France team of 1998-2000 (before Lyon dominated the league): Barthez (junior years at Toulouse and Marseille), Vieria (junior at Cannes), Blanc (junior at Montpellier), Djorkaeff (Grenoble), Deschamps (Nantes), Anelka (PSG/Arsenal), Zidane and Micoud (Cannes/Bordeaux), Pirez (Metz), Thuram, Henry, Petit and Trezeguet (Monaco). There are lots of clubs who grew these French players, but there wasnt a single player who was a junior or who grew at Lyons. If look at the squad at the last World Cup. There are some young Lyon players (either current or who were playing there in 2010) Llloris, Gourcuff and Toulalan, but these guys were initially grown at other clubs (Nice, Rennes, and Nantes), of the 2010 it was only Sidney Govou who was grown at Lyons. For a team that had won 7 out of 10 leagues before 2010 they didn't provide much to the national team. It's probably fair to say that it was better (for the national team) pre-1998 when you had lots of clubs (Monaco, Marseilles, Metz, Cannes etc) who were big enough to hold onto players for a few years and grow them. You could have Pires doing well at Metz, say Wiltord doign well at Rennes, and Micoud doing well at Cannes/Bordeaux without them worrying about competing with each other at the same squad (which is what happened a couple of years ago when you had Briand and Gomis against each other trying to get into the same team with Lisandro Lopez or even back in 2005 when it was was with Benzema, Wiltord, Govou, Bergougnoux and Frau).

 

[Eyel3ss]

Re: Ligue 1 - 11/12

I agree with Edmundo that bringing players from other leagues is better for french ligue 1 than what Lyon did (i.e. only buy player from other french teams which has for only effect to make the opponent weaker).
Another thing that is undeniable is that with bringing top players (or at least try with Beckham) and top coach like Ancelotti all eyes are on Paris and therefore on french ligue 1.
I lived in 2006-2007 in Sweden and nobody couldn't give me the name of 1 player of Paris SG. The only french team knowed was Lyon for their appeirance in CL. I went back this winter to Sweden and everybody was aware that ancelotti signed and that Beckham would come (in that time he was supposed to come).
I also have family in Costa Rica (sorry to bother you with my personal life lol) and they can now see every PSG games + 1 other french ligue 1 match on TV (even in France we can't see ligue 1 game in "free" channels!!!). I don't pretend to know all the countries of the world but I imagine that it is the same in other countries.
I understand that some people think that it is not fair that only 1 club can afford to buy top players but there need to be a first. I am sure that all this "attraction" around Paris SG will have a positive impact on french ligue 1 and that in the future other teams will have new rich investors....Monaco is now owned by a Russian who promise to invest 100M€.
So the Revolution on French ligue 1 is starting!