GOALS [PS5/XBSX/PC/Mac]

[Chris Davies]

It's always the same... The problem is losing. A game where these "influencers" win is the best game ever, a game where they lose is "obviously scripted".

This is all because he lost 9-8. If he'd won 9-8... "Omgz drama best game ever".

And these are the people who are most listened to by the biggest companies in gaming.

It's no wonder we are where we are - but how the hell do we break the cycle? Yes, FC is split into two gameplay-wise, but do the majority of the "competitive" mode players seriously want the gameplay they have (or for it to go deeper in the direction it is)? I just don't believe they do; all players just have to watch game quality worsen because these guys have so much power. Plus, the "authentic" guys can't even play each other online.

 

[VierGraustufen]

I don’t know this Kurt particularly well. A bit, mind you. I do think, however, that he’s concerned with fundamental aspects of gameplay. After the 9–8 defeat, he said that all the goals conceded were scored in the same way.

I mean, there are certainly some good aspects to this GOALS game. However, it lacks basic football logic:

- Virtually every shot is a goal
- There are too many goals in general
- Defence was more realistic 5–15 years ago
- There’s no gameplay based on football logic



I reckon he did want to change things, but he realised that others in the company call the shots and they listen to the majority of the player base. Also, the GOALS company needed to make money, and with the World Cup just round the corner, they released the game (too early).

I mean, even the Italian Stallion can’t be satisfied with this product yet. Perhaps he’ll stay with the team a bit longer and be able to have a positive influence on the defence, which he’s been criticising since around FIFA 20.

I say :
The business model of making money from football games is just as dirty as today’s football industry.

 

[Richie]

It's always the same... The problem is losing. A game where these "influencers" win is the best game ever, a game where they lose is "obviously scripted".

This is all because he lost 9-8. If he'd won 9-8... "Omgz drama best game ever".

And these are the people who are most listened to by the biggest companies in gaming.

It's no wonder we are where we are - but how the hell do we break the cycle? Yes, FC is split into two gameplay-wise, but do the majority of the "competitive" mode players seriously want the gameplay they have (or for it to go deeper in the direction it is)? I just don't believe they do; all players just have to watch game quality worsen because these guys have so much power. Plus, the "authentic" guys can't even play each other online.

"No scripts. No excuses. Just football".

 

[Paul-v]

Just watched this Kurt guy play this game on a Twitch VOD. I don't understand how anyone can enjoy this stuff. Its like Fortnite but modded to become football.

 

[Richie]

Just watched this Kurt guy play this game on a Twitch VOD. I don't understand how anyone can enjoy this stuff. Its like Fortnite but modded to become football.

Most people who play multi-player don't care about the football simulation aspect. They just want to compete online, doesn't matter how crap the core gameplay is.

 

[Chris Davies]

Just watched this Kurt guy play this game on a Twitch VOD. I don't understand how anyone can enjoy this stuff. Its like Fortnite but modded to become football.

Playing the first version (especially with friends), I actually had considerable fun with it - it played like Sensible Soccer (but without the joyous offline modes) - and I honestly think their "every player is unique" online system (and how much their attributes matter in gameplay) is the best online football "system" I've ever played.

The way you "train" them but can't just level-up-spam the attributes you want to, the way they retire at a certain level - and even the little touches like every player having a bespoke URL so you can see/share their performance stats online... I genuinely think it's genius.

If EA/Konami ever want to make an "online career mode" (and I hope to God they do, especially if we can co-op it), this is the way to go IMO - make offline career mode have the real players, keep FUT as-is for the kids/streamers, and add a permanent online mode where you're dealt completely unique terrible players and make us grind our way through a league system, with training, injuries, retirements, transfers (and being able to see how your favourite players' careers are doing as they move elsewhere)...

Imagine if it even had a whole world of divisions you could manage across, and certain countries became the most exciting places to try and manage in - just like real life. I know I'm dreaming big (and naïve) here, but I'd play that to death (if "authentic" gameplay got considerably more realistic).

Unfortunately, after a few days of Goals' release, the only people left playing it were either button-spamming exploit kings, quitters, or pay-to-winners (which seems very easy to do in this game), so I haven't gone back to it*.

But I can't help laughing at the guys who said on day one "this is incredible unscripted football" and are now back to playing the "scripted" FC/eFootball (usually the latter, which I find odd), because other players started spending big bucks and so they started losing - and coincidentally, the "script" came back.

*Also, it's worth pointing out that I still love Sensible Soccer / SWOS - but when I found out you could play it online (via "SWOS 2020") and was mega excited to try it... Guess what, the only people playing it are button-spamming "competitive" players who know every single engine exploit and produce 9-8 scorelines like Goals did for Kurt. In my heart I believe there's a way to create a football game that can't be "cracked" by these kinds of players, but I've certainly not played one yet.

 

[Marreco]

I don’t know this Kurt particularly well. A bit, mind you. I do think, however, that he’s concerned with fundamental aspects of gameplay. After the 9–8 defeat, he said that all the goals conceded were scored in the same way.

I mean, there are certainly some good aspects to this GOALS game. However, it lacks basic football logic:

- Virtually every shot is a goal
- There are too many goals in general
- Defence was more realistic 5–15 years ago
- There’s no gameplay based on football logic



I reckon he did want to change things, but he realised that others in the company call the shots and they listen to the majority of the player base. Also, the GOALS company needed to make money, and with the World Cup just round the corner, they released the game (too early).

I mean, even the Italian Stallion can’t be satisfied with this product yet. Perhaps he’ll stay with the team a bit longer and be able to have a positive influence on the defence, which he’s been criticising since around FIFA 20.

I say :
The business model of making money from football games is just as dirty as today’s football industry.

I agree with your last point. However, I’ve already written this elsewhere and I’m happy to repeat it. Football is a low-scoring game compared to basketball, football (American), handball, etc. It thrives on the fact that a weaker team can still win. This is especially evident in the World Cup in a best-of-one knockout match. In addition, football is highly complex, and the level of unpredictability is high in almost every action. It lives off randomness, mistakes, and luck. None of that is what you want in online gaming. There, you want the same result for the same input every time. That makes it absolutely unsuitable for football. All modern developments for football are aimed at online PvP and are therefore fundamentally not football games. The more competitiveness there is, the less it resembles football. For me, this is the big mismatch between football as a video game and esports. “Goals” is anything but a football game. Football may still be the theme, but it is not the substance. On top of that, there’s of course the whole microtransaction disaster, but that’s a separate topic.

 

[Paul-v]

Unfortunately, after a few days of Goals' release, the only people left playing it were either button-spamming exploit kings, quitters, or pay-to-winners (which seems very easy to do in this game), so I haven't gone back to it*.

As a player of multiplayer games of a zillion years, this is way it has become for every game. Everyone is searching for that YouTube, TikTok, X Post with the "new meta" for the game so they can "git gud". Even when EA tried to add some decent defending to their game, people bitched about it and they listen to those people. I keep saying, EA have a great core engine and gameplay suite but they are so worried about upsetting people / dont have the correct people to make changes that it'll never be that game.

 

[JamieH]

The inconsistency with the change player mechanic has destroyed the small enjoyment i was getting from this game

 

[Sany023]

Most people who play multi-player don't care about the football simulation aspect.
They just want to compete online, doesn't matter how crap the core gameplay is.

They want to win by any price,
Even if in game whole soccer only smallest sliсe.
"I am cool - If I can score 15 times in row",
But game is worst of all, if am lose and starting watch like crow!

P.S. Minute of own creative just for fun .

 

[broxopios]

Everything is about how you manage defeat and anger in a game, especially an online one. I’ve caught myself sometimes getting annoyed by strange goals I concede and blaming the game, even though I’ve scored the exact same ones myself, but in that moment it feels okay.

Unfortunately, no game will ever keep us completely satisfied. I remember in the past, even during the golden era of PES, there were ways to constantly score the exact same goals. In PES 4, chip shots were laughably easy to score, and when you were 1v1, it was easier to score with a chip than with a regular shot. And that characteristic feature of PES 6, where everyone would score by going down the flanks, making a pass, and simply pressing shoot for a guaranteed goal (cutbacks). If those things existed today, there would be massive backlash, just as there is now.

On one hand, it’s good that with live updates you can fix an OP element, but on the other hand, it’s very easy to change the balancing of the game and ruin its general feel. GOALS, since it's also the topic of discussion, messed some things up with the continuous updates it rolls out, trying to fix certain OP elements. Right now, with the latest update, the general gameplay feel has returned to a level where I enjoy it again.

What the game urgently needs is improved attacking AI. There are moments when you find yourself in attack and you see your forwards just standing there and looking at you. The good thing is that the developers are aware of this, but they have said it takes some time because AI is not just a simple mechanic. However, it is one of the first things on their list to improve.

And a few more words about the gameplay again. Personally, I continue to like it a lot. It’s not the realistic football game of slow thinking or protecting the ball by playing with your back to the goal like in efootball. It is an arcade, fast-paced game like SWOS. I still remember the words of Jon Hare, who said that the game was created to capture the core essence of football, namely the emotion, the drama, the adrenaline, and the fast pace. I think to a large extent GOALS offers this, regardless of our general preferences in gameplay.

 

[Richie]

SWOS has nothing to do with real football, that's why I never liked it. It's more like drunk futsal.
Old single player PES was the closest a video game has gotten to real football in my opinion.

 

[broxopios]

SWOS has nothing to do with real football, that's why I never liked it. It's more like drunk futsal.
Old single player PES was the closest a video game has gotten to real football in my opinion.

So what football games did you play in the early '90s? It also has to do with age. If you ask someone who is 25 years old right now if they like PES 1-6, they will tell you "this is arcade for little kids." Same goes for SWOS. To a 35-year-old, it looks the same way PES 1-6 looks to a 25-year-old.

Also, it's nice to say "I prefer X football game because it's more realistic," but in my mind, a video game also needs to be a lot of fun. That's why I can't play eFootball. Granted, it seems to try to look like what we see on TV, but for me, it's not fun. Very sluggish, lost in the animations. I'm not saying it's a bad game, but I can't engage with it much because it doesn't entertain me. Someone else might find it fun, and that's super.

 

[Richie]

So what football games did you play in the early '90s? It also has to do with age. If you ask someone who is 25 years old right now if they like PES 1-6, they will tell you "this is arcade for little kids." Same goes for SWOS. To a 35-year-old, it looks the same way PES 1-6 looks to a 25-year-old.

Also, it's nice to say "I prefer X football game because it's more realistic," but in my mind, a video game also needs to be a lot of fun. That's why I can't play eFootball. Granted, it seems to try to look like what we see on TV, but for me, it's not fun. Very sluggish, lost in the animations. I'm not saying it's a bad game, but I can't engage with it much because it doesn't entertain me. Someone else might find it fun, and that's super.

Right now I prefer eFootball Kick Off, the gameplay is really great, it's just lacking more offline modes like Leagues and Cups.
When I was a kid I played what was available, doesn't mean I loved every game I played. Now I have more choices so I can be picky.
When I'm starving I can eat a McDonald's burger.

 

[Marreco]

So what football games did you play in the early '90s? It also has to do with age. If you ask someone who is 25 years old right now if they like PES 1-6, they will tell you "this is arcade for little kids." Same goes for SWOS. To a 35-year-old, it looks the same way PES 1-6 looks to a 25-year-old.

Also, it's nice to say "I prefer X football game because it's more realistic," but in my mind, a video game also needs to be a lot of fun. That's why I can't play eFootball. Granted, it seems to try to look like what we see on TV, but for me, it's not fun. Very sluggish, lost in the animations. I'm not saying it's a bad game, but I can't engage with it much because it doesn't entertain me. Someone else might find it fun, and that's super.

For me, the PES 3–PES 6 games are so good because they are extremely arcade-like, but at the same time come closest to real football in terms of variety and randomness. This contradiction between arcade gameplay and simulation-like feel is exactly what made these games feel so special and satisfying to play.


I also really like both PES 2018 and PES 2021.


Out of all the FIFA titles, FIFA 17 was my favorite, but I’ve always been put off by FIFA’s physics, collision system, and ball physics, to the point where I can only play these games offline in co-op with friends.


Since FIFA 21, however, not at all anymore. Nothing about it is fun anymore, nor does it feel like football in any way.


Old PES obviously can’t compete anymore in terms of presentation, but that’s not really the point. What’s missing today is a kind of spiritual successor that combines the best of both worlds: the accessibility and fun of arcade gameplay with the depth and unpredictability of a simulation.