GOALS [PS5/XBSX/PC/Mac]

[Jay-Jay 10]

Without RNG they don't matter. We had the discussion before. You have never disproven my comment from that time that in a 1 vs 1 situation from the same angle a 60 OVR striker and an 80 OVR Striker will completely feel the same and have the same success rate. Because you need to score goals for the "dopamine fun crowd" and shouldn't have RNG. In reality a low rated striker should spread the shot, lose composure and miss these chances in that situation. But that wouldn't be "fun" for the Dopamine crowd. So no matter what my striker is rated I can in 1 vs 1 score the same goals even though I shouldn't if the game would resemble football.So yes in any important part of a football game stats don't matter in Goals and that's a fact.

But maybe do another video shooting from the worst and unrealistic angle trying to prove something that in the end only proves my point about the game.

The funny thing is you even admitted yourself there is no spread in passing based on stats, which ding ding ding means stats don't matter for any important stuff that you know would make it a football game

 

[NeoRetro]

They paid a ton of FC YouTubers to promote the game. Will probably die out in the next 3 weeks.

The famous Mr Quinton prefers Goalzzz than Efootball on the pitch. He lost recently a lot of suscriber as he lost his temper when he launch a new version of Efootball even before starting a match, he don't stop to get on his nerve and repetitive like "it's a casino, i hate it, that's shit" etc.

Then when he launch a game he's staying totally negative for stuffs which are basic and fundamental. But it's okay as he said bullshit with nostalgy teinted glasses for something he was too young to understand, in fact he discover stuffs we knows since 20 years ago (even more for old dudes like me).

 

[NeoRetro]

As I said, I'm not here to convince anyone about the game. I'm happy that I like it and I play, you're happy that you don't like it and you don't play. We move on.

However, saying as an objective fact that stats don't matter is out of place. I've played the game since the beta for over 100 hours and I can say this with certainty. You can have your opinion about the game, but saying that stats don't matter is something I don't understand. However, it remains your opinion, so here too, we move on.

Personnally i just repeat what i've heard about the game, but i'm already off since it's annouced as that philosophy is not what i'm searching for.
Didn't even watched how does he looks like on vids, i swear. So there's no point saying bad things about that game, but about his philosophy of course yes as he's totally off and people started to get really interested in football, in terms of investement when Iss Pro started and scoring given the feeling of accomplishement we never got before with others football games.

 

[broxopios]

Without RNG they don't matter. We had the discussion before. You have never disproven my comment from that time that in a 1 vs 1 situation from the same angle a 60 OVR striker and an 80 OVR Striker will completely feel the same and have the same success rate. Because you need to score goals for the "dopamine fun crowd" and shouldn't have RNG. In reality a low rated striker should spread the shot, lose composure and miss these chances in that situation. But that wouldn't be "fun" for the Dopamine crowd. So no matter what my striker is rated I can in 1 vs 1 score the same goals even though I shouldn't if the game would resemble football.So yes in any important part of a football game stats don't matter in Goals and that's a fact.

But maybe do another video shooting from the worst and unrealistic angle trying to prove something that in the end only proves my point about the game.

The funny thing is you even admitted yourself there is no spread in passing based on stats, which ding ding ding means stats don't matter for any important stuff that you know would make it a football game

Nah, I'm not going to do something like that m8. I'm just going to play and enjoy the game. You can stay here and talk as much as you want about the football game of your dreams that is simply never going to be released. Cheers

 

[broxopios]

Personnally i just repeat what i've heard about the game, but i'm already off since it's annouced as that philosophy is not what i'm searching for.
Didn't even watched how does he looks like on vids, i swear. So there's no point saying bad things about that game, but about his philosophy of course yes as he's totally off and people started to get really interested in football, in terms of investement when Iss Pro started and scoring given the feeling of accomplishement we never got before with others football games.

Ok i respect thats fair. Βut don't forget that back then, even ISS Pro was accused by old SWOS & Kick Off players of being too simplistic and user-friendly. Just mentioning it

 

[Jay-Jay 10]

Nah, I'm not going to do something like that m8. I'm just going to play and enjoy the game. You can stay here and talk as much as you want about the football game of your dreams that is simply never going to be released. Cheers

Like I said before just because it might not exists, doesn't mean I need to play a game that doesn't even resemble football.

Well it just proves that you know I am right, because if stats would matter you could easily disprove my 1 vs 1 example. The game has nothing to do with football.

 

[VierGraustufen]

I don’t think it’s necessarily important to always be right.

However, I have to say that with my three GOALS strikers, who have stats ranging from 47 to 51, I score every time in a 1-on-1 against the goalkeeper, provided the goalkeeper doesn’t rush out of the goal (Y button on the Xbox controller). So, whilst the game is consistent in this respect, I do wonder how much the shooting stats actually count for anything.

Every Stat Explained in GOALS​

 

[Chris Davies]

When I mentioned fake suspense, I was referring to situations where you concede an equalizer or a winning/losing goal just because the game allows it and not due to the user's skills, solely to make the match 'interesting.'

Regarding SWOS, yes, it had the ball detach from the feet and required a skill gap. However, I must say, because there is a different perception regarding stats, statistics matter to a massive extent in GOALS. Far more than any football game currently on the market. However, in some stats there is no error that many would expect, because the developers have stated that they do not want RNG in their game. For example, a low passing stat does not translate into ball deviation and error, but rather into how much power it will have to reach the player.

At some point, while I had a fast defender, I noticed that a striker with the exact same speed managed to outrun me. I reported this to the devs and they replied that speed is combined with agility. So, if a player has high speed but low agility, it affects them during direction changes and makes them look slower. I must say I liked this, and now I pay attention to this combination as well. Also, because of the stats, you can see a massive difference if you have a good team and play against a player with a bad team.

In addition, the passes you mentioned require precise aiming, otherwise the pass goes wrong. This is something I personally do not prefer and would want to be closer to FC/eFootball, but I understand the target which is the skill gap.

I believe the game doesn't have wide acceptance due to the simplistic graphics, simplistic animations, the fact that it has no licensing, and that it is an esports game. However, I also understand the majority here who do not like it. I'm not trying to convince anyone otherwise. I'm just putting forward a different opinion.

As I have said before, since I was young and during the PES 1-6 era (and even older), I was a 1v1 player. I rarely played Master League, and mostly just to fill the gap when we weren't gathered at home to play with friends. There is no comparison to playing against a human opponent. The bad thing is that in recent years there are no people around to do this with, so online, as toxic as it may be, is the only way.

I respect your opinion - even if we agree to disagree, it's clear why you're enjoying the game (and I'm glad you are too, because God knows I'd love to love a football game again).

For me, it's not a football game - but if whatever it is, is fun to some, then that's a good thing and I'm glad it exists. And like you say, you're not trying to convince anyone to love it, and nor are you "toxic" in your points.

Also, every squad/player being unique is a truly fantastic idea IMO, especially in terms of online play. It makes more sense than everyone being able to have their own copy of Ronaldo or Messi. I would much rather all football games used this idea.

(And, I don't think FC or eFootball are "football games" either, with the core of both games being 1v1 eSports experiences with purposefully dumbed down defensive AI and little recreation of its tactics, psychology or physics - or any real difference between e.g. Premier League and League Two players - so it's not like they can't, at least, be compared.)

But I don't agree games like FC are scripted to make them "interesting" - that's always felt like an excuse* from the hardcore eSports guys to me, personally (again just a case of "how did I just lose, I'm obviously being cheated") - or at the very least, poor game mechanics that give the appearance of "script".

I would be lying if I said I haven't seen in FC e.g. the AI scoring from kick-off, holding onto the ball for 60 minutes, then as soon as I score the AI scores from kick off again... But 1) I think you're talking about multiplayer (though it could be impacted by the same AI decision making) and 2) I don't think that's "scripting", I think it's the AI changing mentality / strategy and the overall balance of defence vs. attack makes it stupidly easy to exploit.

EDIT: *This "excuse" thing is all over their marketing - "no excuses, just football" is their motto. They have a very clear target audience and it's that "I can't win because I'm being cheated" audience.

It's pretty clever, given how much moaning I see about FUT players etc. feeling that the game is designed to cheat them - but I have to wonder, when people start losing, if they'll start accusing the Goals devs of "turning into EA" and "adding script" ... we shall see.

Because this is exactly what I'm talking about - people loving it purely because they're winning every game, which is all they really want ("won all games bar 1"). When they start to lose, they will start to blame the game, I would bet money on it:

 

[broxopios]

I respect your opinion - even if we agree to disagree, it's clear why you're enjoying the game (and I'm glad you are too, because God knows I'd love to love a football game again).

For me, it's not a football game - but if whatever it is, is fun to some, then that's a good thing and I'm glad it exists. And like you say, you're not trying to convince anyone to love it, and nor are you "toxic" in your points.

Also, every squad/player being unique is a truly fantastic idea IMO, especially in terms of online play. It makes more sense than everyone being able to have their own copy of Ronaldo or Messi. I would much rather all football games used this idea.

(And, I don't think FC or eFootball are "football games" either, with the core of both games being 1v1 eSports experiences with purposefully dumbed down defensive AI and little recreation of its tactics, psychology or physics - or any real difference between e.g. Premier League and League Two players - so it's not like they can't, at least, be compared.)

But I don't agree games like FC are scripted to make them "interesting" - that's always felt like an excuse* from the hardcore eSports guys to me, personally (again just a case of "how did I just lose, I'm obviously being cheated") - or at the very least, poor game mechanics that give the appearance of "script".

I would be lying if I said I haven't seen in FC e.g. the AI scoring from kick-off, holding onto the ball for 60 minutes, then as soon as I score the AI scores from kick off again... But 1) I think you're talking about multiplayer (though it could be impacted by the same AI decision making) and 2) I don't think that's "scripting", I think it's the AI changing mentality / strategy and the overall balance of defence vs. attack makes it stupidly easy to exploit.

EDIT: *This "excuse" thing is all over their marketing - "no excuses, just football" is their motto. They have a very clear target audience and it's that "I can't win because I'm being cheated" audience.

It's pretty clever, given how much moaning I see about FUT players etc. feeling that the game is designed to cheat them - but I have to wonder, when people start losing, if they'll start accusing the Goals devs of "turning into EA" and "adding script" ... we shall see.

Because this is exactly what I'm talking about - people loving it purely because they're winning every game, which is all they really want ("won all games bar 1"). When they start to lose, they will start to blame the game, I would bet money on it:

Anyway, I never said it's a realistic football game, but rather a fun game.

Also, I don't think that being able to pass across the entire pitch using only headers and scoring at the end in SWOS was anything realistic. Yet, all the enthusiasts called it a skill gap and tried to do it.

RNG might not be annoying when you play against the CPU. When you play against a human opponent, it is annoying.

 

[Richie]

My last hope for a decent football game is the Switch 2 eFootball version. If that disappoints me I'm going back to PES 21 for eternity.
Definitely not interested in this TikTok version of a football game.

 

[NeoRetro]

The price to get one single game is a bit high and i don't even know if i would like it in the long term.
Then i despite Nintendo using the same licences without any try of creation and playing with Nostalgic people...

I'm starving fr-om new good sensations in a football game, i still like it but it's been too long to play PES 21 and alone (that version was more fun on VS, not online against 8-1-1 tactics ), even if i replay it exceptionnally 5 years or 6 as PES 2020 was graphically identical, i feel like i'm forcing myself with too much deja-vu impressions.

I play a lot of oldies and very various versions of PES aswess as FIFA to compensate and i never tried some version after the 14 on Ps3/PC; and PS4, and there's a very big hidden gem as Fifa 16 Ps3 (Impact Engine) and i found it by total hasard as Cubans made a patch from 24-25 with exactly the same stats as FC 25. Loved the gameplay but all in spanish was quite annoying to me.
So i took the original and it was way better than what i replayed the new-gen i found acceptable but not on my top at all, if it was a placebo, than their PS4/PC version which i got some issues with the engine (only stayed 2 years) giving the feels to play on another planet with less gravity and devs fought to make it right but they couldn't on everything. "Old" version got everything righter as he was made for Football and not for Battlefield or NHL.

Now about "realism/sim" in football, or any other game that you have to move humans can't be, even more when it's a whole team you got to,
And that type of realism where you will play in VR during 90 minutes with every time out would be an atrocity to play to me.

I just focus on how they can condensate a TV retransmissions by removing time out, and putting more accuracy and all related to physical upper so you can play with a much more resticted time, by keeping the game's flow and what you see "doable" and most of all, balanced on a triangle : goals by games/possible or not + players behavior and skills + reality on TV : all you remember of a football match or a long 10-15 minutes highlight. Of course highlight point more offensive action rather than defensive so it it can be neither like an highlight..
In fact that's on some french media that they started to call PES a "simulation" and now it's a common word we use to say if the "triangle" was French magazine, Seabass denied it saying that's not what he want to do. Rutter said the same about Fifa when he was director on PS3.

It's always a long debate while there isn't the need to debate on it : no games involving human(s) are simulation, not even movies representing an history (you don't live in 2 hours a story during more than a month), and try to avoid thing unnecesary, like i can't imagine a scene in silence where the guy/women say "i go to the toilet" and you see him/her during 15-20 minutes pushing and the "plok" when the snake fall on the water.

 

[*aLe]

I tried the game yesterday (briefly, three matches against the AI) and... I think it can be enjoyed to some extent for what it is (and it's not the football game the majority of us is after).
Obviously I can't see me putting hours and hours into this (as I'm only willing to play against the AI and for a game that's almost completely online-based this means being left behind in a week or two, as the human opponents I could find would have teams way better than mine in a couple of days already).

What I like of it is that stats matter (even too much), at least the athletic ones.
As an example, I've been given two centre backs in the starting team, and they're like night and day.
One is a proper defender: he closes down, he intercepts, he's often at the right place at the right time. The other one is a disgrace: he often refuses to track back, he gets outrun by opponents (and won't catch up no-matter-what), he couldn't tackle to save his life, and gets dispossesses easily (I know, my fault for trying to biuld up with him even if I know he's too poor to do that).
I'm not sure that passing and shooting stats do matter that much, though: I have a 51-rated attacker who's been able to score some nice "trivela" goals that would make Quaresma shy.

I also like the way stoppage time is handled (it's fair, at least, as unlike FIFA and PES you know exactly how many seconds of added time are left, and you know that the timer only runs when you're in the "stoppage time area"): I conceded a goal in the stoppage time with the timer showing 0.3s of stoppage time left and I didn't feel cheated.
I'd love the "stoppage time area" to start expanding from the halfway line (like at the end of the first half) also at the end of the second half, instead of it starting from the left (as it advantages a little the team that attacks from left to right) but it's a nuisance more than it is a problem.

Also, the idea of not having two identical players in all the game's world (like it happens in real life) is a thing that I approve.
I know it can't be done with FUT (imagine having to fight for the only copy of Messi existing in the world, it would be insane!) but can only be done with fictional players (because we could have, say, 1000 players which are more or less as strong as Messi but have 1000 different names), but I like it.

What I don't like much is the animations, at times they just feel chopped, or not relevant to what happens on the pitch, or just plain wrong.

After all, it's a nice arcade game that makes the "skill gap" (both between the human players and the characters on the pitch) matter.
And it's what arcade games should do, after all.
I can see it have its niche of players enjoying it (and hopefully it will also "take away" some FUT-obsessed players from FC, so FC could try and become a normal game again).

 

[Chris Davies]

I hate to say this, but... I've spent most of today playing it.

It feels like everything the FC influencers have begged for. It is truly their perfect game - no AI assistance (an insult to the art of goalkeeping and defending, which is non-existent), no midfield (especially after corners, where it's a free run on goal every counter), and no physics to make passes fail or rebounds result in loose balls.

And yet... It's so simple, and streamlined... It's undeniably fun. I've not had fun playing a football-themed game online for a very long time, and I've really missed that.

As @broxopios said, it really strongly feels like Sensible Soccer 26. It feels like what Jon Hare was trying to do with Sociable Soccer, but with a lot more competence. If it was an indie game for the Switch or some other portable only, with an ML-style or Challenge-style mode baked into it, I think it might be getting a lot of praise.

Attributes really do matter. So much so, I've found myself looking at the player status bars at the bottom of the screen (where they're displayed) to help me decide whether to dribble, pass or shoot. That alone is something I haven't felt the need to do in a football game since the old school PES days (and I feel slightly sick saying it about this, but I can't deny it).

Left stick dribbling alone feels good and your inertia can trick defenders without the need for all the Street Fighter "trick combos". Poor players feel poor, great players feel gifted...

Combine that with the fact that every player is unique and level up in their own way before "retiring" (and each player even has their own real web page so you can share their profile / history with friends)... These devs are clever. That's such a breath of fresh air, with some really nice extra little touches on top.

If I could somehow import SWOS into this engine (both the database and career mode) and play it "on the go", I think it might be something genuinely special.

Don't get me wrong, it's not the football game I want - but I don't think that's ever coming. It's ironic that we're in the era of AI everything, and yet all football games have ditched AI because it's not 1v1-eSport-skill-gap enough.

Put this game into the hands of Kurt or some other eSport / influencer, and it'll be non-stop tricks and bullshit that makes it entirely unenjoyable, I'm sure. But as a pick-up-and-play arcade game... It's actually deeper than I expected.

To me, FC, eFootball and UFL all have the same core "feel" as each other - trying to straddle arcade and sim, creating something to please everybody that pleases nobody, and doesn't feel close to football (with marble-on-glass laser-guided physics and dumbed-down AI), so from a gameplay standpoint, I couldn't rate any of them more highly than the other. This, at least, knows exactly what it wants to be.

If only someone would make a pure sim, where every touch of the ball was unique, and every player had an active footballing brain that created unique situations from start to finish.