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Football Manager Series

I think the match engine is getting too complex to the point that SI is afraid to change or recode it. I bet they tried and didn't like the results(because there are a lot of complex edge cases). It's probably going to be a C++ library where Unity will only be used as a pretty front end(so all physics, simulation and other code will still be in C++). That doesn't really change much to the point I am going to start playing FM 2025. They took the most safest approach and I am surprised it took them 3 years to do that.
 
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I think the match engine is getting too complex to the point that SI is afraid to change or recode it. I bet they tried and didn't like the results(because there are a lot of complex edge cases). It's probably going to be a C++ library where Unity will only be used as a pretty front end(so all physics, simulation and other code will still be in C++). That doesn't really change much to the point I am going to start playing FM 2025. They took the most safest approach and I am surprised it took them 3 years to do that.
Match engine is exactly this "complex" that it relies basically only on two attributes to generate scores: https://fm-arena.com/thread/14009-attribute-testing-football-manager-24/
 
It feels very "bandwagon"-ny in here all of a sudden, considering Football Manager is widely regarded as the best football simulator ever made...

It's obviously not perfect (boy am I sick of saying that about every game ever), but if you can stay away from downloading cheat tactics, then it's great as far as I'm concerned - and I've not been able to find easy success by focusing on a couple of attributes because they're highly valued (in reality, too) and players aren't interested in signing for you if your manager attributes are low and your team is low-reputation.

Also, difficulty can be increased thanks to Daveincid's files - including AI transfer behaviour. It's not perfect (there's that bloody phrase again) but it provably results in clubs bringing in younger players and being less reliant on older ones than the default game.

Again, it's obvious there are issues - the biggest ones in my opinion being...
  • AI transfer behaviour (the above plus e.g. the AI refusing to pay the market value for players, while you have to pay significantly over the odds)

  • Tactical importance (sticking with one system is too successful, I want to be forced into tactical switches more often - especially when you have data analysts giving you some good info to work with, but you simply don't need to most of the time)

  • Press / player interaction (as basic as "select positive answer for morale boost, select negative answer to needlessly piss your players off" with no benefit to picking the answers closest to your actual thoughts/feelings)

But come on... It's a pretty fantastic game, really.

My fear with FM26 is that they appear to be focusing on graphics and porting the "full" experience to more systems right now, rather than making major improvements to the above points.

They could argue that, with the switch to Unity out of the way, there will be more evolution next year... but I still need a reason to play this year's game over a fully-modded FM24, beyond the "incredible graphics upgrade" (if your players are all the same height, that argument is null and void IMO).


EDIT 1: The challenge of representing real-life in a UI is also interesting to me - Miles is right that football managers don't use emails with their staff to communicate, and that it's a bit silly to pretend they do, but it seems they found it impossible to implement an intuitive replacement for that setup.

I find that a really interesting thought experiment, and they're between a rock and a hard place with stuff like this. Change it from an "email" to a "word with your staff" that's just words in a box, and it's identical to what it was before - change it to 3D talking heads and it's going to take an age to play the game.

Plus, change it too little and everyone will say "it's the same as before, rip-off", change it entirely and "it doesn't feel like Football Manager any more", with the latter being crucial. I don't envy Miles. (Well, I do - he gets to play Football Manager for a living. :LOL:)

We all know what that "Football Manager feel" is, and if it strays from that and becomes more like one of its crappy clones... It'd bomb. It must be hard.


EDIT 2: Just realised that applies to player attributes as well.

Really, it's a silly system - managers don't buy players by looking at what their "tackling attribute" is.

But how do you swap to something else without ruining the game and the "Football Manager feel", really?

There are skins like this that replace attributes with much more barebones "dots" or bars - which are probably more realistic (certainly more challenging):


...but it requires so much extra work to compare players (i.e. you can judge "tackling 15 vs 18" at a glance, whereas "green dot vs green dot" requires you to then look at the player's match statistics, which is more difficult to interpret fairly).

It's rare for me to think realism ruins a game, but in this instance, I think it really does ruin the FM "feel". So then, does the game have to be the same forever?
 
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...but it requires so much extra work to compare players (i.e. you can judge "tackling 15 vs 18" at a glance, whereas "green dot vs green dot" requires you to then look at the player's match statistics, which is more difficult to interpret fairly).

It's rare for me to think realism ruins a game, but in this instance, I think it really does ruin the FM "feel". So then, does the game have to be the same forever?
There is literally 0 (ZERO!!) difference between full squad of players with 15 vs 18 tackling, let alone for just a single player!!
 
There is literally 0 (ZERO!!) difference between full squad of players with 15 vs 18 tackling, let alone for just a single player!!
You only have to look at the last page of that thread you've linked to in order to see people discussing the test's flaws (it's not position-based for a start). You can believe tackling attributes don't matter, but it's not a fact until more thorough testing is done.
 
You only have to look at the last page of that thread you've linked to in order to see people discussing the test's flaws (it's not position-based for a start). You can believe tackling attributes don't matter, but it's not a fact until more thorough testing is done.
A team that had players with 20 tackling allowed only 2 goals less over a 38 game season than a team that had players with 8 tackling... What kind of test you need to make you a believer!?!
 
A team that had players with 20 tackling allowed only 2 goals less over a 38 game season than a team that had players with 8 tackling... What kind of test you need to make you a believer!?!
What if players had 20 tackling but their positioning attributes didn't put them in position to tackle? What if the attacking players' attributes were more pass-based than dribble-based, or the tactics? What would the results be if you only applied this to defensive players rather than the whole team? What would the results be using 3 defenders vs 4 defenders vs 5 defenders?

As far as I know, some attributes work in partnership with others too, so they are weak individually but do something more powerful if "partnered" attributes are at higher levels. One man's test does not equal a bad game, and my own personal experience of playing defenders with better tackling attributes vs worse tackling attributes defensively has generally resulted in a difference.

I'm not saying it's perfect but when you look at the simulated results and league standings - well, if they weren't very realistic, it wouldn't be as popular of a game as it is. We'd all like the engine to be deeper but if you don't like the game, nobody is forcing you to play it.
 


I have to be honest, I'm thoroughly underwhelmed thus far...

What has this achieved that a skin couldn't, other than customisability that most aren't going to bother with?

Starting a new FM24 save with the Mustermann Icon skin (mentioned in post #664) is more interesting than this IMO.
 
They didn't show nothing in the video about interaction with players and staff
It's all been surface-level stuff so far, I'm really disappointed. Hoping they're saving the best until last, although I guess they might argue that "better AI logic" is difficult to make into a sexy trailer.

(They could have used the match engine trailer to talk about it being deeper or more realistic though, and they didn't...)
 
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According to the Steam page, the Arabic language is -finally- supported in game.

Mayne a licensed Saudi league !
 
Release date confirmed as 4th November.

Coming to PC (Steam / Epic / Game Pass), Xbox, PS5, Switch and Netflix (lol).

All info from the main website, footballmanager.com.

EDIT: This comment on Reddit sums it up for me:

"Nice UI changes and all. I think it looks quite a bit better. FMPedia is a nice feature too.

But player conversations look the same, the text and messages all look the same (e.g. seen that exact match report “article” a million times already), the actual choices you have seems the same, there seems to be nothing actually new apart from the UI improvement."
 
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This comment on Reddit sums it up for me:

"Nice UI changes and all. I think it looks quite a bit better. FMPedia is a nice feature too.

But player conversations look the same, the text and messages all look the same (e.g. seen that exact match report “article” a million times already), the actual choices you have seems the same, there seems to be nothing actually new apart from the UI improvement."
I think this is what they decided to do after FM25 died in its testing phases. Just start with FM24 again and cram the work they did for graphics in somehow. Which, to be fair, is what FM25 shouldve been.
 
Now that would be very interesting.

Also noticed "Sky Sports" appearing on the news stories which is nice, the more licenses for real-world content like that the better!
 
The UI looks to have a lot of quality of life improvements which is very welcome, for the first time in a very long time I will not look to apply a skin immediately, there lots of interesting concepts in there around how they have designed it, but it is all a bit "umambitious" with this being billed as the "new" FM. I suspect they did go in a very different direction, judging by what Miles said in the interviews, it did not work and therefore they have gone back more towards FM24 so as to takeaway the risk and make sure they release a game this year, hopefully those more radical changes are put back in small iterations over the next few years.
 
To be honest for me, the UI is the least of the worries. I mean sure it can be improved and I am glad they improved it but outside of Squad Planner, i don't really have a lot of quirks with the UI. For me, it's all about the simulation of AI squad managers and making non-physical stats have more impact in match day that I am still waiting for a lot.
 
Game is pre-ordered on Steam so will have the 2 weeks early BETA access.
I am perfectly fine with the game pretty much being the same as FM24 but it is where the game seems to be going which is bothering me.

I really hope that this isn't another one of my favourite games which is dumbed down to incorporate console gamers. (Civilization)

Also didn't do a DB release on Monday this week as only got back from Belgium last night.
This will be uploaded on Monday next week, as the Turkish window ends tomorrow night.
 
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Arabic sport content creator said 12 years ago he asked SI to add Arabic language, and repeated the request in 2021. The 2026 edition shoud has it, maybe translated via AI

 


Erm, excuse me, how come female footballers have different heights in the match engine when the male footballers don't?!

I'm hoping this is just footage from a newer version!
 


Erm, excuse me, how come female footballers have different heights in the match engine when the male footballers don't?!

I'm hoping this is just footage from a newer version!


I wouldn't worry about it at the moment.
I am sure the match engine will be updated massively before release and even patched 3/4 times during the release to improve the system.

I am sure it won't be broken as FM21 or 22 when the engine was broken and you couldn't play any CM's.
 
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