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- #541
bsmaff
World Cup Winner
Football Manager Series
- Thread starter bsmaff
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #542
bsmaff
World Cup Winner
- Staff
- #543
I didn't see that coming, especially given the "leaks" (and those who were invited to test it seemed to think it was in a good place).
Obviously it's disappointing but ultimately I didn't really want to give up my FM25 save just yet... so I'm glad it's getting more work.
Will it have the same features missing that we've already been warned about, I wonder? Or will they be working to add those in for a more complete release than originally planned?
But most importantly - I just hope they can financially survive.
I wonder if FM25 will be removed from Game Pass etc. now and guys like me will have to buy the game to A) continue our saves and B) give SI/SEGA some cashflow. I sort of hope that's the case so that the series doesn't die...
EDIT: And if I see one more person saying "at least give us a data update" I'm going to explode. Use the unofficial ones and/or get in the bin, I don't want them spending any more time on the older product than they have to. It's playable without an update.
Obviously it's disappointing but ultimately I didn't really want to give up my FM25 save just yet... so I'm glad it's getting more work.
Will it have the same features missing that we've already been warned about, I wonder? Or will they be working to add those in for a more complete release than originally planned?
But most importantly - I just hope they can financially survive.
I wonder if FM25 will be removed from Game Pass etc. now and guys like me will have to buy the game to A) continue our saves and B) give SI/SEGA some cashflow. I sort of hope that's the case so that the series doesn't die...
EDIT: And if I see one more person saying "at least give us a data update" I'm going to explode. Use the unofficial ones and/or get in the bin, I don't want them spending any more time on the older product than they have to. It's playable without an update.
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Pagi84
Championship
Exactly, I mean I even have a rolling save system for my FM save games, just incase one gets corrupted or deleted. So I'm pretty sure they'll have multiple versions of the actual FM game code!
In the last statement and unlike the previous ones, they don't talk anymore about the date of the next release, so it could be in in November 2025 or January 2026.
Sorry but nothing can replace an official database update.
- Staff
- #546
It's just a ludicrous suggestion. For what purpose would they work on the old game? People would expect it for free (and if they charged for it, they wouldn't cover the cost of the work). Let alone the fact that their legal agreements with each partner would likely have to be amended.
Let them work on FM26; you have options (the unofficial updates, or simply carrying on an old save).
IMO the people who are obsessed with data updates are as bad as the net-obsessives and boot-obsessives in the classic PES era, who would literally sacrifice gameplay for that stuff.
Anyone have an explanation why they decided that FM25 will be new era ?
So, we know since the summer of 2023 that the 2025 edition will be the first of a new era.. considering this, I assume that they were ~80% ready for the new engine AT THAT TIME.
So two years after that announce, they are no longer ready for it !
So why they were so confidence that FM25 will be the one that launchs the new era ?
So, we know since the summer of 2023 that the 2025 edition will be the first of a new era.. considering this, I assume that they were ~80% ready for the new engine AT THAT TIME.
So two years after that announce, they are no longer ready for it !
So why they were so confidence that FM25 will be the one that launchs the new era ?
Jay-Jay 10
League 1
- 6 July 2021
You should cool down on assumptions a bit. No it doesn't mean they were 80% ready.
It just means they made a project assessment based on high level estimates their developers gave them by when they could have a switch to the new engine and all features ready.
It is normal project management and planning. You write your designs and features, you do tech assessments, sprint planning, estimates and then you have a picture at around when the project should be ready. Which is why they were confident and my guess is early progress boosted that confidence.
However, working with a public engine has many issues that you don't have with your own engine.
Basically any update to a public engine can ruin multiple things you have been working on and unity is known for introducing issues in their engine updates. Combine that with maybe a wrong estimate on bugs or underestimating some pains in the transition because of unforeseen issues that happen and you quickly get to where SI is now.
There is so many examples in the games industry where teams struggled adapting to new engines so this is not surprising.
- Thread starter
- #549
bsmaff
World Cup Winner
Using Unity meant it was easier to make the same game for all platforms and develop them at the same time.
The old FM engine was designed solely for PC and PC architecture - Intel were even hired to optimise alot of their code.
SI also stated that the old engine was reaching it's limits in regards to the 3D match engine and a new engine was needed to make the match engine look even more real.
The only concern I have with the new engine is to appeal more to the masses they will dumb the game down and not make it so hardcore so that the casual gamer will play it - As no doubt it will double sales.
The same thing has happened to one of my all time favourites in Civ, that game has become dumbed down and simplified for the console gamer.
kamy100
Premier League
- 9 June 2003
I hadn't realised that there was so much hate for Miles out there, the very limited interactions that I have had with him has always been quite positive but seems not for everyone, below is taken from Resetra:
- Staff
- #551
It's completely unfair IMO. Just another head of a studio who takes the blame for everything from angry gamers desperate to throw abuse at someone, like Adam Bhatti with PES. What has Miles said from a strategic point of view that we could be angry about?
In the past he's spent a lot of time on social media answering people's questions about upcoming releases, and if they haven't liked the answer, he gets abuse - and this is why he decided to stop doing that. But of course, that makes him even MORE of a target, because he's "smug" or "arrogant" or something like that.
Years ago, I asked Miles a totally random question one day about football game development - about FIFA/PES being quick-fix totally unrewarding games aimed at a different market - and I asked for his insight in a desperate attempt to get some hope back for the future of football games.
He wrote several messages back to me, giving me some really interesting points from a development standpoint, and his thoughts as a football fan. It was totally unrelated to FM and he had no reason to answer. Every interaction I've had with him, and that I've seen him have, suggests to me he's a decent bloke.
My concern is the agency who they've hired to come in and change the whole Sports Interactive "culture" (I've mentioned this a few times now), and I wouldn't be surprised if this has contributed to the cancellation, because these agencies all make money for nothing and I've seen it slowly destroy companies before.
FCDallas_Fan
League 1
- 23 September 2018
Chalk up another win for Out of Context Football Manager's source.
Remember, this account was the first to break news of the initial delay before it was officially announced. Not saying this isn't just clickbait, but their previous post(s) into the matter proved valid.
They weren't accurate about the timing, at a point where they didn't even think a season update for the licences in case they will miss the release of 2025.
They played it risky, and it didn't work.
FCDallas_Fan
League 1
- 23 September 2018
On the Unity forums, multiple Unity employees mentioned being embedded at SI for various periods of time over the past few years. I'll try to find the exact post, but one of the Unity people sent to help mentioned how bad the situation at SI was in early 2024.
I do agree with you, games designed for PC originally (primarily simulation/strategy) have been very dumbed down over the years. Sports, racing, you name it.
FCDallas_Fan
League 1
- 23 September 2018
Thanks for doing this. Planning to reinstall FM24 and this will save me a lot of time. Which facepack do you use? DF11, cut-out, or something different?
- Thread starter
- #556
bsmaff
World Cup Winner
It is just the cut-out player faces megapack.
The logos are the metallic ones as they are updated the most, but personally I use the vapour ones as they look the best.
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FCDallas_Fan
League 1
- 23 September 2018
Davieincid isn't releasing his February realism update to the public because more people were putting his stuff in their "megapacks" without giving credit.
- Thread starter
- #558
bsmaff
World Cup Winner
Slightly more too it than that.
Another group claimed they were a scouting group of 8 people and redesigned the whole game from top to bottom which took them a year to produce.
It was then put up on FMScout and all the files in there were identical to Davieincid, so can fully understand him being pissed.
So I understand him doing this, plus it will probably get him more subscribers to Patreon.
It doesn't really stop the files being shared, as anyone could pay the £3 a month and then just upload them somewhere.
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pesfooty29
League 1
- 27 July 2020
I have been very supportive of SI and still am despite everything we know now. They still have credit in the bank. I was one of the few people on here who wanted SI and Sega to ditch the March release and focus on FM 26. March is too late to release a football game on a month when many leagues across the world are at the tail end of their season.
But now, I am worried. That credit in bank is starting to run dry. I am getting Coinami vibes from all of this and I have this feeling that we are in uncharted territory. The devs now have to show how the game is progressing to the community. No more months of silence.
We all know how Efootball was sold to us, and what we got at the end, and it wasn't good (and still isn't good). The lack of communication. Very little showing of the game's development. The dishonest nature of how we were sold a game that would be revolutionary with ML and all the great things that made PES what it was, and all it turned out to be was a bastardized version of FUT with gacha mechanics. The only difference is Efootball is free (until the game pressures you to pay for microtransactions) while FUT is part of a 69.99 packaged deal with some bad gameplay. Although to be fair, EAFC's gameplay for this year is a bit better, but you know what I mean.
The have one last chance to make this right or it's over.
But now, I am worried. That credit in bank is starting to run dry. I am getting Coinami vibes from all of this and I have this feeling that we are in uncharted territory. The devs now have to show how the game is progressing to the community. No more months of silence.
We all know how Efootball was sold to us, and what we got at the end, and it wasn't good (and still isn't good). The lack of communication. Very little showing of the game's development. The dishonest nature of how we were sold a game that would be revolutionary with ML and all the great things that made PES what it was, and all it turned out to be was a bastardized version of FUT with gacha mechanics. The only difference is Efootball is free (until the game pressures you to pay for microtransactions) while FUT is part of a 69.99 packaged deal with some bad gameplay. Although to be fair, EAFC's gameplay for this year is a bit better, but you know what I mean.
The have one last chance to make this right or it's over.
- Staff
- #562
I'd say that's great from an accessibility/disability standpoint - but otherwise, that's just making something that takes 1 second take 10 seconds for no reason...
When you said AI, I got excited - IMO FM is one of the games with the biggest potential for the current iterations of AI we have.
Imagine having to answer interview questions using your words, or your voice - with no preset choices (and the same for team talks). Imagine the questions themselves, not just being a preset list based on preset conditions, but reactions to your words.
(Take it further - transfer deals, contract talks - imagine having actual talks, with a player.)
Right now, the press side of things isn't even a mini-game - it's simply "press the most positive answer to win and make everyone happy", and unfortunately other football games have cloned that (looking at you, FC).
It is insane to me how pointless a system the entire press side of the game is. Other than occasionally trash-talking another manager, there's no risk or reward.
I hope to see FM own Chat AI, developped for the game with multiple personnalities. A good idea to start would be by using it for the press Q/A
- Staff
- #564
So, SI were actively developing a FUT-style game on the side of FM (managed by the guy who is head of their mobile game development, Marc Vaughan), in order to generate some extra money - using a pseudonym. 100,000 people played it, and (from the sounds of it) didn't particularly like it...
This is a really (long, but) interesting read.
SortItOutSI: Sports Interactive's Secret Game
It used Unity for the match engine - you'd imagine this will have been used as the base for FM25/26 work...
This is a really (long, but) interesting read.
SortItOutSI: Sports Interactive's Secret Game
It used Unity for the match engine - you'd imagine this will have been used as the base for FM25/26 work...
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Pagi84
Championship
- Staff
- #566
I just don't agree with this - I reinstalled the mod to see if I was going mad, and the scorelines are way too high. It's not for me - I think people are just desperate for something new.
FCDallas_Fan
League 1
- 23 September 2018
I have trouble watching Zealand's FM videos, but his "serious" videos (Hidden Grounds series) are very good and worth watching.
FCDallas_Fan
League 1
- 23 September 2018
Were you playing the base game with the mod? Or did you have other mods downloaded, specifically that effect player traits (or similar)? I've played other games in the past where mods would work great with the base game, but terribly with different roster files.
- Staff
- #569
I do use Daveincid's mods, but the standard database. Either way, it's a much more balanced, believable game for me with those and the base gameplay - particularly as the modded gameplay seems to increase speed and first-time passing (which wouldn't be realistic for my lower-league save)...
pesfooty29
League 1
- 27 July 2020
Is there is away to download the mod without signing up?