FIFA/FC vs PES/eFootball

[Jamezinho]

Re: FIFA 16 v PES 2016

The English commentary in PES has been garbage forever.

FIFA's commentary is technically very good, it's just I don't want the Sky Sports experience. Sky Sports drives me up the wall at the best of times.

 

[Chris Davies]

Re: FIFA 16 v PES 2016

FIFA's commentary is technically very good, it's just I don't want the Sky Sports experience. Sky Sports drives me up the wall at the best of times.

See, my dream is a BBC Sport experience - having an actually-filmed Gary Linker and guest giving a quick little intro to each game with the graphics greenscreened-in behind them, which is what they do with the NHL games (but not with Gary Lineker obviously).

Then, considering the amount of commentators Match of the Day feature regularly (7 or 8 different people), it would take a lot longer to get sick of the commentary, I reckon.

It'd cost more money and take longer to record the same amount of commentary that there is now for each person, of course, and there's the whole Premier League / Sky Sports tie-in that is impossible to get around now, so...

...Konami, over to you.

(But I think more people hate the BBC than Sky when it comes to football coverage, for some reason.)

 

[Placebo]

Re: FIFA 16 v PES 2016

Love the commentary, would never dream of turning it off, I want the watching football on TV experience whilst actually playing it

 

[angus]

Re: FIFA 16 v PES 2016

See, my dream is a BBC Sport experience - having an actually-filmed Gary Linker and guest giving a quick little intro to each game with the graphics greenscreened-in behind them...

And all I ask is a ball and net, and a controller to steer her by.

 

[RiverReveal]

Re: FIFA 16 v PES 2016

I kind of wish this thread was called something different than FIFA 16 'v' PES 2016.

Just quoting my post from last week. Yay.

If I had known my next wish was coming true though....well, not gonna lie, I am going to aim a bit bigger next time...

 

[Placebo]

I'm a badass genie

 

[Chris Davies]

I played online games in both last night, and was left massively disappointed after initially enjoying both online (still love FIFA versus the CPU, and like PES versus the CPU).

Starting with FIFA...

When it comes to defending, once I get close to the opposition (i.e. as far as I can get without the "invisible pressing circle" bouncing me out of it), I find I've got two choices:

A) Attempt a slide tackle, which misses and then I'm fucked, or

B) Keep letting the opponent run at me (while I track him) aaallllll the way to the edge of the box, at which point he shoots and scores anyway.

I played three games last night and conceded 2 goals due to A and 3 goals due to B.

I thought defending was supposed to be improved but I actually think it's WORSE (online). People are beating my defenders now without even using the "trick stick", they're just wobbling the left stick in random directions (which I wouldn't mind if it took skill/timing, but it clearly doesn't).

As for PES...

First game, 4-0, second game, 4-4. The goalkeepers are shocking (as has been said and apparently Konami are working on), but the midfield doesn't exist. Reminds me of FIFA 15 in a big way - keeper gets the ball, throw to winger, pass to a central player, pass to a winger, run, through-ball, shot. Over and over and over.

I had very little button-lag, which I was thrilled about (last year it was unplayable as far as I'm concerned), but the gameplay makes counter-attacks and wondergoals so prevalent that they just aren't exciting any more, for all that PES tries to be "fun" (and FIFA tries to be "realistic at the expense of fun").

Back to offline play for the next week. Sigh.

 

[uk_stanners]

Re: FIFA 16 v PES 2016

In PES hold down L1 and move the right stick to the direction of the player you want to make to run.

How can you do that in FIFA?

Cheers, now through ball might be useful for me!

 

[P34SEMM]

Id like Barry Davies commentating.

Played PES last night and the game just seems on rails to me. Although FIFA isnt perfect it will keep me happy for a season.

Time to sell PES16 and put money towards Star Wars Battlefront.

 

[uk_stanners]

Re: FIFA 16 v PES 2016

The English commentary in PES has been garbage forever.

FIFA's commentary is technically very good, it's just I don't want the Sky Sports experience. Sky Sports drives me up the wall at the best of times.

I think commentators in general are poor these days, we are lucky we don't have the BT Sport experience.

FIFA last year was good apart from the constant world cup references.

I think PES should have brought back Peter Brackley for nostalgia sake. I always liked him, reminds me of my Football Italia watching youth.

 

[Chris Davies]

Re: FIFA 16 v PES 2016

I think commentators in general are poor these days, we are lucky we don't have the BT Sport experience.

This is an excellent point, I never turn the commentary off but Michael Owen telling me it was definitely a foul and a free kick to Manchester United (despite playing as Portugal v Romania) would drive me to selling the consoles and starting up a one-man Sunday League team instead.

I think PES should have brought back Peter Brackley for nostalgia sake.

And another. I'd have loved that, and so would the people I think this PES has been aimed at (with that "past" motto).

 

[elfie]

A bit offtopic but going to ask anyway :

Is there an editing option in Fifa? If i should stick to 15 i wonder if i can change stuff (besides transfers) such as jerseys or player stats.

 

[Placebo]

I must be the only one, I think Fifa's commentary is excellent, only annoyance so far this year is down to their typical poor design/programming, if you disable the first transfer window the only transfers they can talk about are the pre-existing ones like Schweinsteiger and Cech, so I get to hear about them a hell of a lot, but hopefully in January it'll improve

 

[Tinker]

I must be the only one, I think Fifa's commentary is excellent, only annoyance so far this year is down to their typical poor design/programming, if you disable the first transfer window the only transfers they can talk about are the pre-existing ones like Schweinsteiger and Cech, so I get to hear about them a hell of a lot, but hopefully in January it'll improve

I agree they are really good. Would also hardly ever play a football game without a commentary.

 

[Placebo]

Being told that a certain player was man of the match in his last match, that's a pretty cool new touch!

 

[mfmaxpower]

I played online games in both last night, and was left massively disappointed after initially enjoying both online (still love FIFA versus the CPU, and like PES versus the CPU).

Starting with FIFA...

When it comes to defending, once I get close to the opposition (i.e. as far as I can get without the "invisible pressing circle" bouncing me out of it), I find I've got two choices:

A) Attempt a slide tackle, which misses and then I'm fucked, or

B) Keep letting the opponent run at me (while I track him) aaallllll the way to the edge of the box, at which point he shoots and scores anyway.

I played three games last night and conceded 2 goals due to A and 3 goals due to B.

I thought defending was supposed to be improved but I actually think it's WORSE (online). People are beating my defenders now without even using the "trick stick", they're just wobbling the left stick in random directions (which I wouldn't mind if it took skill/timing, but it clearly doesn't).

As for PES...

First game, 4-0, second game, 4-4. The goalkeepers are shocking (as has been said and apparently Konami are working on), but the midfield doesn't exist. Reminds me of FIFA 15 in a big way - keeper gets the ball, throw to winger, pass to a central player, pass to a winger, run, through-ball, shot. Over and over and over.

I had very little button-lag, which I was thrilled about (last year it was unplayable as far as I'm concerned), but the gameplay makes counter-attacks and wondergoals so prevalent that they just aren't exciting any more, for all that PES tries to be "fun" (and FIFA tries to be "realistic at the expense of fun").

Back to offline play for the next week. Sigh.

Defending is definitely much improved overall for me, and I think it's much better balanced for online play than offline play because people are more impatient and aggressive online. The problem is FIFA's 1-on-1 defending mechanics are still shit. PES does this WAY better than FIFA.

That said, one of my roommates is a very good online player and he's pretty good at tackling - when we play against each other, I'll finish matches with like 5 tackles to his 20 - so there's definitely a skill involved that I struggle to master.

For me right now, both tackle buttons are just suicide buttons.

 

[Chris Davies]

That said, one of my roommates is a very good online player and he's pretty good at tackling - when we play against each other, I'll finish matches with like 5 tackles to his 20 - so there's definitely a skill involved that I struggle to master.

Can you get him to write a tutorial please?!

I've genuinely looked around for tips, and the only guides I can find are literally just "press this button to tackle, press this button to track"...

For me right now, both tackle buttons are just suicide buttons.

Ditto, online. But then tracking them does nothing either, because all I'm doing is ushering them towards the goal.

I have no defence online whatsoever, I just have to watch them score. It's completely put me off playing online until either A) someone can tell me what I'm doing wrong or B) EA patch the game (at which point they'll only boost the attacking play and further cripple the defensive play, looking at the reviews).

 

[curdstar]

Okay, some thoughts after having plaued both the last few days dince getting a PS4 again.

Erm... I'm simply enjoying PES more... at the moment. Saying that as a pretty much exclusive offline player.

A lot has been discussed about the technical merits of both. My opinion currently is one that this Ignite engine EA were talking about as a "built from the ground up" asset a few years ago simply isn't so. Yes, there are more animations in FIFA than to be found in PES but the engine is a bit wonky in transition and blending. Again, it might look more complete generally than PES but there are pacing issues where animations will speed up and look unnatural. PES does have animation clipping that when viewed in replay is more than a little obvious but in real time less so, plus for all that this "snapping" in out of routines exists, it aids the gameplay and responsiveness, and no, just no - this responsiveness has not turned PES into an arcade game, or more of an arcade game than FIFA as a result. If people want to call bullshit on reviews for PES and FIFA and call them all lazy, then I call bullshit and lazy on that "sim v. arcade" waffle from some players since both games respective release. Elsewhere I like that PES establishes "solid 60" regards all visuals in the matchday experience. FIFA has a 60/30 thing going on and again I think that is a result of older tech foundations in the Ignite engine. No biggie this, but I do notice it and do like PES' consistency in frame rate all round.

One thing I will say before closing on the technical stuff is that people appear to have short memories. FIFA didn't truly shine in the previous generation until three/four games in (UEFA08/FIFA09) regards it technical assets. Yeah, it could look pretty in FIFA08, even 07, but it was an engine that had still to show its prowess in the animation and gameplay department. The way I see it just knoe is that PES *could* be about to go on a similar trajectory with its assets, while FIFA has somewhat levelled out. I personally can relate to that aspect of some of the reviews; it isn't *that* impressive technically any more. Still solid, but not really wowing in the way it once did. It could be argued they don't need to. I would disagree when looking at a game like NBA2k16. The thing is, such is FIFA it will always sell millions and more than PES into the bargain, thus they could take it back to the drawing board technically - take a risk yet still generate profit in the profuct rven if it does have to have a vouple of teething years. That is unless Konami could perform the ultimate minor coup and are able to get a fully licensed up product on the market during that time but that would require greedy clubs and associations to not sign exclusivity deals with either publisher. Never going to happen.

So aye, gameplay then. Both games have issues and both games are most certainly trying to offer a simulation experience using different ideology. FIFA is trying to do so with physics and animation offering an individualistic feel to proceedings, PES is looking to do so via player individuality. Neither game offers a pure simulation experience out of the box and instead requires the end user to tinker and tweak settings, or alter sliders or player stats. Both games require the user seeking a more simulation, more grounded affair to knock the game speed down from its default setting too. After that? Pure preference as to what game is ticking more boxes for you. For me at this juncture it is PES, but I still do enjoy in the main that which I have experienced of FIFA thus far. I'm happy thst I find myself in a position I can enjoy both games attempts at simulation, fully aware that both come with major caveats in trying to so.

Going to come back this perhaps a little later on, or maybe in a few days after more play.

I'll say this about online. Has been an utter abortion regards both football games since day one. I have a best mate who stays round the corner from me and during the week it used to be we would have the odd game online, before the odd weekend while both our other halves were away/tolerated us playing in their company while sitting sharing a few drinks and a blether and the gameplay experience was completely different and much better and it wasn't because of the alcohol or the couch/banter aspect. The matches just played differently and all the better for it.

 

[joonlarjj]

Can you get him to write a tutorial please?!

I've genuinely looked around for tips, and the only guides I can find are literally just "press this button to tackle, press this button to track"...


Ditto, online. But then tracking them does nothing either, because all I'm doing is ushering them towards the goal.

I have no defence online whatsoever, I just have to watch them score. It's completely put me off playing online until either A) someone can tell me what I'm doing wrong or B) EA patch the game (at which point they'll only boost the attacking play and further cripple the defensive play, looking at the reviews).

im no expert but ive been doing decent online even using manual against assisted players, heres a few things i do:

- never use contain. assign it to R1 and forget about it

- use L2 (jockey) a lot a lot, and use L2+sprint for faster jockey to manually track your man.

- tackle button tackle button. tap it or quick press it (if you hold it it usually results in a foul) when close to an opponent to tussle with them and get your body in the way. use this a lot. this is incredibly useful to the point of an exploit, imo, as your defenders seems to warp in front of the runner when you use it correctly. kind of annoying actually as this was a big exploit in fifa15 too. its been toned down in 16 but i still feel its unrealistically effective.

the tackle buttons are not suicide buttons, they can be used to great success so much. if youre having problems it must just be a timing and anticipation problem because for me the tackles do a lot of good

- when using secondary press you cant just hold it down because your defender wont make the tackle and will get easily ran around (thanks tactical defending). instead you have to use secondary press up until your defender gets close to their target and then manually switch to that defender to defend the space/make a tackle yourself. this can be quite finicky depending on your skill level because you need to do it repeatedly with several players over the pitch with the right timing

- play the space not the man. if a runner is going down the wings dont just track him all the way and overextend your defender, stay weary of both the cross and cut inside and defend the space within that zone.


so those are some things i do

i wonder if anyone out there uses contain at a high level? i would like to see that because to me its just a mess

 

[curdstar]

Anyone else watching the Champions League matches tonight? I am disgusted at how arcade-like it is; Lewandowski scoring a hattrick making that 10 goals in three games; blatant scripting from Olympiakos as that run up the park and score after Arsenal level. Rubbish simulation.

 

[digger]

FIFA has a 60/30 thing going on

This is a big deal for me on the PS4. It's not just the 30 cap in 'cutscenes' and replays, you also get the 30 cap in the rain. It's horrid when it happens. Makes my eyeballs feel like they are vibrating out of the sockets. Yuck.
I haven't noticed it though in the PC demo, so I might part ways with the PS4.

 

[broxopios]

For me this year, PES wins hands down. I'm talking about football feeling in general. Tactics, resposiveness, passing, passion.

Football is all about momentum and PES have got it this year. Of course it's not without flaws (like shooting accuracy, collision detection system), but the general feeling is positive.

FIFA, on the other hand, has better shooting system, better ball physics and EA tried to implement many realistic elements to us via controller, but the general feeling this year is that the game is boring. I don't get excited playing 1vs1 or 1vsCPU (i don't like playing vs CPU since FIFA 11).

So this year my choice is PES 2016 on PS4.

 

[Chris Davies]

I watched Porto v Chelsea last night and it did occur to me that Porto were playing PES (ping-pong passing) and Chelsea were playing FIFA (slower build-up play overall). I guess that means PES wins...

But in seriousness it did just reinforce that element of "neither game can do what the other one does".

I did play PES & FIFA immediately afterwards to see what comparisons I could draw from it, but immediately in PES I was running along through thin air in the centre of midfield and scoring wondergoals, and getting the ball taken off me when I'd pressed a button to move the ball on a second before, and having my defenders put on invisible paths I have to "snap" them out of - no different from any PES before it.

PES has potential, but it always has, and it never seems to get close enough to meeting it for me - but then, some people feel that way about FIFA.

On World Class with sliders, FIFA wasn't a million miles away and much more enjoyable - the goals always make me jump from my seat because you feel like you actually caused / scored them, whereas PES feels like the game decided to put your ball on a path to goal.

They're both just lines of code, but one makes me feel in control and the other makes me feel controlled.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

well said. my main problem with PES.
tho the lack of midfield can be fixed by switching team tactics ( all of them one by one), few players in defence and few players in attack means most of them are in the midfield. problem is PES tactics are set up in 2 ways, all out defence or all out attack. wich is understandable for the likes Barca...but very few team has midfield. in ML i always got crushed with MU since they have 2 strategy aswell attack or defence, so i set up 3 tactics, default midfield play, real all out attack with 3 defenders, and real defense with 1 striker. the last two are pretty much the same as their default tactics but a "bit" more effective versions of those. suddenly i played a lots of draws and small wins, i hammered really small teams ofcourse by 2-3 goals but mostly i stick with the default midfield play tactic and it payed out, never got beaten badly even by big teams int he 2nd half of the season. shooting & passing still sucked ofcourse

 

[curdstar]

I watched Porto v Chelsea last night and it did occur to me that Porto were playing PES (ping-pong passing) and Chelsea were playing FIFA (slower build-up play overall). I guess that means PES wins...

But in seriousness it did just reinforce that element of "neither game can do what the other one does".

I did play PES & FIFA immediately afterwards to see what comparisons I could draw from it, but immediately in PES I was running along through thin air in the centre of midfield and scoring wondergoals, and getting the ball taken off me when I'd pressed a button to move the ball on a second before, and having my defenders put on invisible paths I have to "snap" them out of - no different from any PES before it.

PES has potential, but it always has, and it never seems to get close enough to meeting it for me - but then, some people feel that way about FIFA.

On World Class with sliders, FIFA wasn't a million miles away and much more enjoyable - the goals always make me jump from my seat because you feel like you actually caused / scored them, whereas PES feels like the game decided to put your ball on a path to goal.

They're both just lines of code, but one makes me feel in control and the other makes me feel controlled.

Did the same but came out with different thoughts to that of your own. World Class game on FIFA in which it ended 1-0 Chelsea, 0-0 in PES on Superstar and selecting a Champions League exhibition which I find can be a little more of a test than standard Exhibition. The match in PES just felt more alive with greater ebb and flow. The FIFA match wasn't by any stretch bad, just a bit one note.

 

[angus]

Some programming issues that were carried over from last year. Doesn't kill the game, just pointing out the "wrong" as you described. For instance, the CPU never shoots high, and User GKs can't stop low corner shots. I posted a test where I tracked CPU shots/goals:

- All CPU shots/goals traveled 3 feet or less off the ground
- Average CPU shot/goal traveled 18 inches off the ground.
- All CPU goals were scored via soft shots to the bottom corners, the User GK isn't quick enough to cover those as I said.

Have you played both mate? If you have which is the better in your opinion?

First thing I would say is PES has some broken aspects (some player ratings and skills do not work and have no effect on game play), whereas FIFA does not. PES on the PC anyway is really just half a game, FIFA is the whole package.

Where PES shines is in the ability to customize CPU tactics. No comparison there, FIFA is still essentially a one-dimensional attack-oriented game, where teams all play the same. It's less relentless and static than in previous years, yes, but at its core not much has changed in that regard. Whereas in PES you can set individual CPU teams' tactics in such a way that CPU teams will keep possession for the entire game without ever attacking. Not that you would want that, but that's how customizable PES is in that area, very impressive actually.

I play both games, having fun with both. But after a couple of weeks I would say Konami took us for a ride this year, their half a game should have been half the price. It's essentially last year's game (and rosters). Extremely lazy effort in too many areas.

 

[Placebo]

Can we keep football spoilers out of Fifa threads please? Some of us like to watch the matches in full on delay

 

[romagnoli]

Anyone else watching the Champions League matches tonight? I am disgusted at how arcade-like it is; Lewandowski scoring a hattrick making that 10 goals in three games; blatant scripting from Olympiakos as that run up the park and score after Arsenal level. Rubbish simulation.

To be fair, (a) Arsenal having an absent midfield should not be a surprise (so at least PES gets that right), and (b) Lewandowski scored those in a world where passing and shot error exist - hence why he probably felt something when he scored each and every goal.

I know you're just having a laugh, but that genuinely was the style of argument that used to be made all the time on WENB or forums like that, or when FIFA fans would excuse pingpong passing by saying 'watch Barca m8'. It was really infuriating to read because as a style of argument it's obviously reductionist bollocks and proves nothing.

 

[curdstar]

To be fair, (a) Arsenal having an absent midfield should not be a surprise (so at least PES gets that right), and (b) Lewandowski scored those in a world where passing and shot error exist - hence why he probably felt something when he scored each and every goal.

I know you're just having a laugh, but that genuinely was the style of argument that used to be made all the time on WENB or forums like that, or when FIFA fans would excuse pingpong passing by saying 'watch Barca m8'. It was really infuriating to read because as a style of argument it's obviously reductionist bollocks and proves nothing.

The thing about passing error is that in both games it is not what it should be at all. If there is one thing they both do then that is have the AI rack up 90%+ with ease. I personally find pass error exists though not how it should be; also find midfield exist in PES too.

Difference, for me, though is that in FIFA I find (currently) that it is all one note. Yes, a game being slower is a necessary ingredient in achieving some depth, but it isn't the only thing. There absolutely needs to be ebb and flow and FIFA in my experience lacks that in my time playing. I can slow down my game in PES and speed it up, and I do see the AI do that as well. FIFA just doesn't have that in its locker for me; lacks variance in tempo in my time with it thus far. It is very mechanical too; lacking the understanding that the real sport is so popular because of its raw simplicity to play as my mate put it. Two or three knocks of the right stick to accelerate and open up in the dribble neither replicates the simplicity of speeding up in the dribble in real life, nor does it replicate the dribbling style of its cover star particularly either. There was an ESPN diagnosis of his goal against Athletic Bilbao and the ball went no further than 3 feet from him, yet he was accelerating and running at great speed.

As for feeling when scoring a goal. I get that from both games in all honesty, and again both are similar in that sometimes I feel great and other times a bit flat.

But I really was just taking the piss with that post.

 

[romagnoli]

The passing percentages aren't a measure of accuracy really. There are too many factors involved besides the pass error itself - how close is a potential interceptor to the recipient; how much pressure is the passer under; how many passes were made in the match; how aggressive or ambitious was the pass etc etc. You could have a game with 0 passing error, where every passer is Xavi squared, but still have 80% passing accuracy if they're trying adventurous passes. FIFA's issue is that the decisions the AI makes are probability-based, and the AI doesn't think 'well, long ball is about taking punts and hoping some of them pay off, so let's play that 20% long pass instead of the 90% short pass to the midfielder just there'.



How does passing error work in PES? I'm asking honestly because I don't currently see it at all. I get that it probably affects through balls, but how does it affect normal passes?

When I try to pass first time off an awkward ball in FIFA, or play a first time pass behind me, I see that, whether I'm using assisted, semi or manual controls, the resultant pass tends to be affected. I see passes over or underhit, and I often see passes go 30 degrees to one side of the intended direction. The solution is usually to take a touch, to get the ball under control, and then pass - unless your player is technically gifted, in which case one-touch passing is far more reliable.

I genuinely don't see this with PES. One touch play is available to all with no tangible impact - keepers included. I've been wondering about what actual difference passing stats make when just using standard ground passes. I can't see any individuality at the moment. While the pass assist level should obviously make a difference - and PA1 being identical to PA2 and PA3 doesn't help - it should make a difference regardless of assist level, in some meaningful way.

It seems to me like PES represents a player's ability to pass through a crowd of players as the likelihood that the pass will instead be aimed directly at a defender in the way. I first remember thinking this in PES 2011 - that what seems to be going on is, passer's passing stats vs opp. defending stats = chance that ball will go directly to defender.