FIFA/FC vs PES/eFootball

I think for me, the error is found more in speed chosen over direction, and while I agree that PA1 should be better tuned than that currently (especially if the game is going to offer an additional two support methods - leaving out manual) for the moment at least it isn't proving a huge hindrance to the overall experience. I say this admittedly as someone who is coming back to these games after somewhat of a hiatus for a couple of years, and me also playing usually with mid ranked teams or Libertadores/Sudamericana matches while I wait on roster updates and getting my lazy ass in gear and applying kits.

Maybe it will grate after a while and I will demand more in this respect, but right now I can jump between the two games and enjoy myself in the main.
 
romagnoli said:
The passing percentages aren't a measure of accuracy really. There are too many factors involved besides the pass error itself -

How does passing error work in PES?
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CPU passing % in FIFA 16 is way up this year due to the fabulous number of sort back-passes the CPU plays. I'll take CPU back-passing over correct pass % any day.

Konami removed the individual player pass speed and pass accuracy ratings 3 years ago and there is no longer a speed or accuracy modifier in PES. That's why all CPU teams and all CPU players have the exact same pass speed and pass accuracy abilities whether they're rated 40 or 99.
 
angus said:
CPU passing % in FIFA 16 is way up this year due to the fabulous number of sort back-passes the CPU plays. I'll take CPU back-passing over correct pass % any day.

Konami removed the individual player pass speed and pass accuracy ratings 3 years ago and there is no longer a speed or accuracy modifier in PES. That's why all CPU teams and all CPU players have the exact same pass speed and pass accuracy abilities whether they're rated 40 or 99.
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Absolute and utter garbage sorry.

Promised myself I wouldn't get in on this thread as it's seems another place to bash pes but this is utter nonsense.
 
Just played an ML game as Burnley. I've been enjoying it, but I've just scored the same goal three times - nearly four times (hit the crossbar), and even the CPU scored it first time around.

This is on Superstar AI, too - and it's also one of the lowest scoring games in the last month of gameplay.

https://youtu.be/veaAd7WJd54

I'm at a point now where reading about how there's secretly a brilliant, deep game hidden under the surface just makes me laugh. In my experience (only as a Championship team, admittedly), there definitely isn't.
 
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curdstar said:
The three headed goals aren't the same, dude.
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It's not very often you see a game with nearly exclusively headed goals, especially when there's nearly five.

From my point of view, from a gameplay perspective, they were all the same. Passed to a winger, ran a fair distance, crossed, each one perfectly onto the striker's head. I didn't feel like I worked for any of them, they were all gifts. Surely you can see it's a bit naff to say the least.

I think if they patch in working levels of assistance and I can have less CPU help (I'm not a manual player and shouldn't have to be to get the most out of any football game), it might feel like a more enjoyable and/or varied experience. Without that, I may as well be describing what I want the game to do as opposed to holding a controller.
 
Chris Davies said:
It's not very often you see a game with nearly exclusively headed goals, especially when there's nearly five.

From my point of view, from a gameplay perspective, they were all the same. Passed to a winger, ran a fair distance, crossed, each one perfectly onto the striker's head. I didn't feel like I worked for any of them, they were all gifts. Surely you can see it's a bit naff to say the least.

I think if they patch in working levels of assistance and I can have less CPU help (I'm not a manual player and shouldn't have to be to get the most out of any football game), it might feel like a more enjoyable and/or varied experience. Without that, I may as well be describing what I want the game to do as opposed to holding a controller.
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try semi-assisted?
 
zeemeister said:
Absolute and utter garbage sorry.

Promised myself I wouldn't get in on this thread as it's seems another place to bash pes but this is utter nonsense.
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Zee...I did an edit the other day in PES where I made a created player 40s across the board except for stamina. I didn't want him knackered too early. Of course he was a starting middie on Cunturpia. Finished the game 19/21 on passes on full out manual. The only difference I could feel was in crossing. I sent a few into the crowd.
 
romagnoli said:
The passing percentages aren't a measure of accuracy really. There are too many factors involved besides the pass error itself - how close is a potential interceptor to the recipient; how much pressure is the passer under; how many passes were made in the match; how aggressive or ambitious was the pass etc etc. You could have a game with 0 passing error, where every passer is Xavi squared, but still have 80% passing accuracy if they're trying adventurous passes. FIFA's issue is that the decisions the AI makes are probability-based, and the AI doesn't think 'well, long ball is about taking punts and hoping some of them pay off, so let's play that 20% long pass instead of the 90% short pass to the midfielder just there'.



How does passing error work in PES? I'm asking honestly because I don't currently see it at all. I get that it probably affects through balls, but how does it affect normal passes?

When I try to pass first time off an awkward ball in FIFA, or play a first time pass behind me, I see that, whether I'm using assisted, semi or manual controls, the resultant pass tends to be affected. I see passes over or underhit, and I often see passes go 30 degrees to one side of the intended direction. The solution is usually to take a touch, to get the ball under control, and then pass - unless your player is technically gifted, in which case one-touch passing is far more reliable.


I genuinely don't see this with PES. One touch play is available to all with no tangible impact - keepers included. I've been wondering about what actual difference passing stats make when just using standard ground passes. I can't see any individuality at the moment. While the pass assist level should obviously make a difference - and PA1 being identical to PA2 and PA3 doesn't help - it should make a difference regardless of assist level, in some meaningful way.

It seems to me like PES represents a player's ability to pass through a crowd of players as the likelihood that the pass will instead be aimed directly at a defender in the way. I first remember thinking this in PES 2011 - that what seems to be going on is, passer's passing stats vs opp. defending stats = chance that ball will go directly to defender.
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If you have time try these settings out, for some reason passing and shooting stats become more apparent for some strange reason, you have more error on the ball when u pass with a dud, try these out if you like.

Pass support = off
Shot type = manual
Individuality stands out a lot in pes when everything is manual, for some strange reason when u have just pass support to off its still not significant enough till you put shot type to manual, try it if you like and let us know what you think.
 
kgx2thez said:
Zee...I did an edit the other day in PES where I made a created player 40s across the board except for stamina. I didn't want him knackered too early. Of course he was a starting middie on Cunturpia. Finished the game 19/21 on passes on full out manual. The only difference I could feel was in crossing. I sent a few into the crowd.
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On full manual? well of course the passing stats are going to be dependent on your input it's manual :CONF:

How can you from that deduce that PES doesn't have individuality in passing. What type of passes where they? Short long through balls? Come on guy this is common sense.
 
joonlarjj said:
try semi-assisted?
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I'm on the least assisted setting (other than full-manual), but it's been said in the PES thread that all the assistance settings are the same at the moment (and this appears to be the case). On semi I'd enjoy the game, I think - hence why I'm looking forward to the October patch.

It's also worth adding that you still need to put a lot more work in to score with FIFA's fully-assisted settings and that the variety in the goals scored is tenfold in comparison. I've not scored the same goal three times against the CPU in FIFA yet (not this year anyway - last year I definitely did).
 
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chiefrocka4real said:
Why did they remove these factors then?
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Konami removed the shot technique rating in 2012. That's why people now complain it's no longer necessary to position your player properly in order to get a good shot off, and why it's too easy to score. They removed the pass speed and pass accuracy ratings in 2014 and replaced them with a single generic "passing" rating. But that rating does nothing and has zero effect on CPU game play, it's a placebo rating. Set it at 40 or 99, it makes no difference to CPU pass speed, pass accuracy or team pass %.

Why did Konami remove these ratings and dumb the game down like this? My guess is Konami realized they needed to do something drastic to revive this series and keep it afloat. One way of doing that was to turn PES into a "passing simulator": revamping the ratings system and gameplay to give the impression it's playing real football. Removing those and other player ratings was their way of fixing the coding mess that PES became over the past decade as a result of their constant tinkering and trying to get the game to play properly year after year.

I would guess these changes are a result of a whole re-envisioning of the series, of what Konami thinks PES must become as they attempt to compete with EA: focusing on graphics and visuals (appears to play like real football) which is the #1 thing most gamers look for these days, while also finding ways to make the game more accessible to casual gamers.
 
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I'm not a fanboy of either titles, IMO, prior to this years installments PES6 and FIFA 12 were the pinnacles of each respective series. Konami always seemed to be struggle with the jump to the 'next gen' (PS3 and XBOX360 at the time), and FIFA has made each installment of their series following FIFA 12 more 'competitive' to appeal to a wider audience.

I have played FIFA pretty much exclusively since FIFA 12, I put in more than a 1000 FUT games on that installment. Honestly I think that has to be one of the best football games ever made. Since then I have been playing less and less, not through lack of time, just because the games have gotten worse. Just to confirm, I am good at FIFA, I win the majority of the games I play, however the wins just aren't enough to enjoy the game. I bought both PES and FIFA last year, playing PES for about a month before switching back to FIFA. Both games were not good. I stopped playing both of them in the end.

It's strange actually, FIFA to me is an angry game, if I play it I just feel the frustration in me boiling up, if it's not the worst goalkeepers ever to appear in a football game franchise (which have not been fixed properly in 4 years!), then it's the ridiculous miss placed passes, pace abuse and stupid deflections around the goal (seriously, after playing FIFA for a week we all know where the deflections are going to land when a shot is blocked, either pinging out of the area for a counter attack or to the far post where an opposition player will be to tap it in). The core gameplay of FIFA has not changed much since FIFA 13, just some slight tweaks which keep it new for the first week, but become almost irrelevant after a week of playing, when you just end up playing the same old FIFA.

PES this year I think is the winner for me, not that I think it is the 'right choice', seriously, play whichever fucking game you want. But I honestly believe that FIFA is the cusual choice. For the players who think they are the best at the game and do not believe that the game is assisting them, all while playing on full auto (Seriously people, if you are not on full manual then the game is deciding which shots hit the net, and which passes are misplaced). I like to think about my football, I like to be able to line up a team which is best for each game, and have to change my gameplan throughout the game to earn a win. PES offers this, FIFA does not.

A match on each game sums it up for me. My first online game on PES I picked Crystal Palace. I like the set up of the team, with quick counters and speedy wingers. My opponent was Real Madrid, my online opponent knew how to play the game, knew some skills etc but I can only presume did not know how to play football. He tried to just blow through my team with Ronaldo and Bale... ppffftt, after all, it was only Crystal Palace. However, I know how Palace line up and how they play. I absorbed his attacks, sending him out wide anytime he got into the final third, forcing him to try and cut in where a tackle was easy to win, or into a last ditch cross, which my back line dealt with easily against a lonely Benzema. Then bang, straight onto the counter, as soon as we had possession Bolasie and Zaha streched the pitch on their respective wings, Puncheon pushed up into the hole and Campbell occupied the two centre backs with his pace. He couldn't handle me, I picked my moments and scored with 4 out of 6 shots before he turned off his console. I was victorious. This would not happen on FIFA. It cant happen. A casual couldn't pick Real Madrid and get beaten by Crystal Palace, it wouldn't happen. It can't happen. There would be instances where my defenders would bounce of Ronaldo, Bale or Benzema regardless of my positioning or timing of the tackle. the skill of the input does not matter as much.

This brings me to the final nail in my FIFA coffin. A draft team I had against the CPU, two players of note for me were Ronaldo on the left wing, and Bernat at left back, opposition players of note were Montoya at RB and Kondogbia at CM. I had Ronaldo free, he was gone Montoya was 3 yards behind already writing his obituary. It was good night vienna . But wait, whats this, he caught up!?! He's pulling me back, he's dispossessed me!?! All within two seconds, c'mon?? Really?! It's gonna be like that. Ok. The ball's given to Kondogbia, he's heading down the right wing, it's OK Bernat's got this covered. Wait.. Why aren't you sprinting Bernat, c'mon it's Kondogbia, you can outpace him with one leg. No no no no... Kondogbia has blasted past Bernat, he's actually opened up a 5 yard gap. Cross comes in... But it's saved, oh wait, it's bounced to the far post where it's knocked into the empty net. Just another goal on FIFA, the same one which is conceded every 2-3 games. Same old same old. (FYI, this was around the 50th minute and the players were not tired, just to re-iterate, I know my FIFA very well. Too well. And this is the problem.

I guess comparing these two games is like comparing Counter Strike to COD or even Battlefield. All the games have their own merits and their own issues. Some prefer one series, while others just get how that can be possible. C'est la vie.

P.S; Anyone who is playing PES and bashing any 'bugs', while being fully aware of the update needs to have their head examined. Konami have confirmed that fixes will be made based on community feedback and changes will be implemented. I for one cannot wait to get back of holiday to play PES again. This is a feeling I have not experienced for a long time.
 
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patty_b said:
It's strange actually, FIFA to me is an angry game, if I play it I just feel the frustration in me boiling up...

P.S; Anyone who is playing PES and bashing any 'bugs', while being fully aware of the update needs to have their head examined.
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I guess we could wait another couple of weeks for the update, but we've been waiting since last year for fixes to the CPU always shoots low issue, the CPU always shoots/scores low to the corners issue, the GK can't dive to save low corner shots issue, the no CPU long shots or crosses issue, the no fouls issue, and the CPU pass ratings having no affect issue. How much longer should people wait, and do you really think Konami plans to fix all that, finally?

But I get the angry FIFA thing, that game makes me tear my hair out when the CPU boost AI kicks in. Whereas PES doesn't make me angry at all, I fully accept the game is fundamentally broken on several levels. It was half the price of FIFA, you get what you pay for.
 
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Chris Davies said:
It's not very often you see a game with nearly exclusively headed goals, especially when there's nearly five.

From my point of view, from a gameplay perspective, they were all the same. Passed to a winger, ran a fair distance, crossed, each one perfectly onto the striker's head. I didn't feel like I worked for any of them, they were all gifts. Surely you can see it's a bit naff to say the least.

I think if they patch in working levels of assistance and I can have less CPU help (I'm not a manual player and shouldn't have to be to get the most out of any football game), it might feel like a more enjoyable and/or varied experience. Without that, I may as well be describing what I want the game to do as opposed to holding a controller.
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Tried standing on your head while playing. This is not the placebo effect its true. Playing on your head makes PES better. :P
 
Did Patty B just label FIFA keepers the worst in any football game whilst simultaneously championing PES? Surely that has to be a joke. I mean, really? He's pulling our chain.
 
Pedderrs said:
Did Patty B just label FIFA keepers the worst in any football game whilst simultaneously championing PES? Surely that has to be a joke. I mean, really? He's pulling our chain.
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Mob mentality rules, eh?

If you want to raise issues with my post then quote me directly, you don't need a mob with pitchforks behind you to have a civilised discussion.

"Championing PES". Yeah, OK pal. I prefer PES, gloss it how you want. This year PES is my preferred choice. That's just kinda how it is.

And yes, broken goalkeepers. You know, when the ball is bouncing out slowly for a corner and your goalkeeper just stands there... Watching. Press triangle. Nothing. Class. Much goalkeeping, great wow. Last year I remember before release there was a lot of banging on about how good the goalkeepers were. yet, still broken.

I can guarentee I have played more FIFA than you over the last 5 years. I don't hate or dislike the game, it's just not enjoyable anymore for me, unlike this years PES. I have no allegiances to any franchise. I play the game I prefer.

Just to re-iterate, this is not "championing pes", this is just my opinion.

I'm trying to bring a bit of balance to a thread full of hate.
 
patty_b said:
I'm trying to bring a bit of balance to a thread full of hate.
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You're really not though.

You say Fifa is a game for casual gamers who play all assisted, the vast majority of us who use this site and play Fifa and post in this thread or the main Fifa thread are neither casual gamers nor assisted users, I think you'll find a higher portion of manual and semi users here than any other gamer base anywhere, you're preaching from the wrong book to the wrong choir ;)
 
Yeah, you pretty much lose all credibility when you say that FIFA's keepers are the worst all time of any football game. No point in reading beyond that.
 
Placebo said:
You're really not though.

You say Fifa is a game for casual gamers who play all assisted, the vast majority of us who use this site and play Fifa and post in this thread or the main Fifa thread are neither casual gamers nor assisted users, I think you'll find a higher portion of manual and semi users here than any other gamer base anywhere, you're preaching from the wrong book to the wrong choir ;)
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Woah woah woah... You misinterpreted my original post.

"For the players who think they are the best at the game and do not believe that the game is assisting them, all while playing on full auto (Seriously people, if you are not on full manual then the game is deciding which shots hit the net, and which passes are misplaced)."

I did not state that the people posting on this thread all play on auto, I don't know how you play and I don't really care how you play. But the vast majority of FIFA players play on auto, all my friends play FIFA, and they all play on full auto, apart from a few who will change auto-switch to air balls. I think you are all completely ignoring my statement, which is that I have been playing FIFA exclusively for 5 years, I played on manual, however I know that the vast majority of players play on the default auto settings.

It is my belief that FIFA is the footballing game for casuals, and has been marketed that way. Two button controls, or just press in the right analogue stick to see what I mean. These are new features actively being advertised when introduced to the game. It is again my belief that these have not been introduced for the less casual gamer.

Why is everyone so sensitive about this, I say why I enjoy one game more than the other, and the differences as to why. I post it here because of the title of the thread.

Maybe I'm mistaken and in the wrong here, however this can be forgiven due to the thread title of "FIFA & PES: Contrast & Compare".

Anyway, back to your original post, let me ask you, do you truly believe the majority of the people playing FIFA change their control scheme to manual? Or even Semi? And I mean truly honestly.

eah, you pretty much lose all credibility when you say that FIFA's keepers are the worst all time of any football game. No point in reading beyond that.
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Oh no! Not my credibility...
 
patty_b said:
And yes, broken goalkeepers. You know, when the ball is bouncing out slowly for a corner and your goalkeeper just stands there... Watching. Press triangle. Nothing. Class. Much goalkeeping, great wow.
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That's a good point, I noticed that, calling the GK to run out and challenge, and instead he walks or trots at best. That's either a bug or, if EA programmed it that way this year, a really bad design choice.
 
angus said:
That's a good point, I noticed that, calling the GK to run out and challenge, and instead he walks or trots at best. That's either a bug or, if EA programmed it that way this year, a really bad design choice.
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Thank you, I appreciate you noticing this. It has been in FIFA for years and still has not been fixed. I call this broken goalkeeping. It's not impressive if my goalkeeper can pull off a wonder save but cannot pick up a deflected ball slowly bobbling past him.
 
patty_b said:
It is my belief that FIFA is the footballing game for casuals, and has been marketed that way. Two button controls, or just press in the right analogue stick to see what I mean.
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You can't use those online, nor can you use the simplified defending online ("legacy defending"). Not sure if you know that, maybe you do...

patty_b said:
Anyway, back to your original post, let me ask you, do you truly believe the majority of the people playing FIFA change their control scheme to manual? Or even Semi? And I mean truly honestly?
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Do you truly believe PES players do? No chance. (Same applies for FIFA players, by the way.)

There's no way the majority of players alter their control schemes, or even know the ability to do that exists. (I'm saying that like it's fact because I know a lot of casual FIFA players and when I talk about it, it's like I'm talking in an alien language - they buy the game to play the game, as do PES players, although there's a lot less of them. In my experience - i.e. quizzing friends, that's down to the lack of licenses and laggy online matches.)

That said, I sort of agree with your goalkeeper comment - I wouldn't say they're broken, and as people have already said, the Pro Evo keepers have problems (but this has been acknowledged by Konami), BUT... I find they're super-keepers at close range, and dullards at long range depending on whether the other person uses a finesse shot or not, for example.

It feels to me like certain aspects are tweaked as a sort of "shortcut" to a more realistic end-result - the "defender catch-up", for example. The AI can't be made intelligent enough to defend fairly, so to stop silly scorelines, suddenly they're as pacey as the forwards. It doesn't stop you scoring, but it stops you scoring easily, in certain matches.

(PES is guilty of this too, but in a much more frustrating fashion from my point-of-view - invisible walls, vacuum feet, balls glued to boots, players stopping for no reason, etc. - I feel like my entire team play like they've got "jammed cogs" in their legs when I play a great team, as opposed to the great team beating me by playing better. If that ever changes, I could play PES and love it like I used to, but for me, the "cheating" is so painfully obvious and frustrating, and the only way that the game "forces" realistic results. I never feel like that with FIFA.)
 
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patty_b said:
But the vast majority of FIFA players play on auto
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The vast majority of Fifa player are complete and utter morons whose opinion I have zero interest in TBCH ;) I just don't think that generalising about Fifa being a casual game in the forum of a demographic that does everything in its power to make it a non-casual game is really the right line to take. You prefer PES because Fifa's casual? The great thing about Fifa is it can be what you want it to be, if you're a causal youtube whoring moron skill abusing tool like KSI it can be the game you want, if you're an anal simulation demanding manual user like me you can get that (mostly), I don't feel PES has that flexibility (or desire to be that flexible).
 
patty_b said:
Thank you, I appreciate you noticing this. It has been in FIFA for years and still has not been fixed. I call this broken goalkeeping. It's not impressive if my goalkeeper can pull off a wonder save but cannot pick up a deflected ball slowly bobbling past him.
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Honestly, I can't say I noticed this until this year, but I didn't play FIFA 15 very much. It seemed fine before that, GKs would charge out as I recall.

Without question though, EA screwed up the GK AI last year, that's one reason I didn't play it. They were going for realism but ended up with something broken and unbalanced: super-human diving stops but won't react to a dribbler rolling in by the post. Some of that broken GK stuff seems to be in FIFA 16 as well (ball goes in shoulder-height because the GK bends way back like he's afraid of getting hit in the face) but from what I've seen most of it has been fixed.
 
Chris Davies said:
You can't use those online, nor can you use the simplified defending online ("legacy defending"). Not sure if you know that, maybe you do...
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I know :P

It was more about who the game is targeted to; not that it is a bad thing by the way, I think introducing ways to play the game that make it easier to new players is a good thing! However, for me it feels like the game is being simplified. However, this is just my opinion from my experience. Everything is subjective :)


Chris Davies said:
Do you truly believe PES players do? No chance. (Same applies for FIFA players, by the way.)

There's no way the majority of either FIFA or PES players alter their control schemes, or even know the ability to do that exists. (I'm saying that like it's fact because I know a lot of casual FIFA players and when I talk about it, it's like I'm talking in an alien language - they buy the game to play the game, as do PES players.)
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You know what, I don't honestly know when it comes to PES. Like I said everyone I know plays FIFA rather than PES and they only change the player switch options. I know that on this forum switching control schemes is a big thing when playing PES, however this forum is an incredibly small sample size compared to who is actually playing either game!

Chris Davies said:
That said, I sort of agree with your goalkeeper comment - I wouldn't say they're broken, and as people have already said, the Pro Evo keepers have problems (but this has been acknowledged by Konami), BUT... I find they're super-keepers at close range, and dullards at long range depending on whether the other person uses a finesse shot or not, for example.
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I won't comment on PES goalkeepers, I haven't had enough experience with PES over the last few years in comparison to FIFA to make an honest opinion as to what I think are worse. Like I said previously, both games have their problems, differences and plus points. And I don't think there is a 'correct choice' when it comes to either game. Thanks for the constructive and reasoned response though :)
 
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