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FIFA/FC vs PES/eFootball

Ameppe said:
Honestly when the AI is so fundamentally broken in Pes 2019, it's not a case of so close.
This year it has been released as quickly as possible without even testing it and assuring the bare minimum to make it playable and fun against AI.

I would say this year is far less close than it was last year to a great product. I think Pes 2018 in general is the better game, no doubt about it.
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I'm on completely opposite side of the boat, mate. I think good sides outweighs shortcomings in PES2019.

While PES2018 in my opinion is there among the worst PES games ever released, however, together with PES2008 and PES2016.
 
Ill add that due to Konamis lack of effort off the pitch (modes, menus, fonts etc) the game play should be pretty much perfect as they clearly do nothing else all year off the pitch.
Said it before but why not ask the fans to create menus as a competition and the winner gets it implemented in the game and tickets to see a licensed team of their choice. So simple. So cheap but Konami wont do it.
 
Tinker said:
I'm on completely opposite side of the boat, mate. I think good sides outweighs shortcomings in PES2019.

While PES2018 in my opinion is there among the worst PES games ever released, however, together with PES2008 and PES2016.
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PES09 for me was the worst. Made me go to fifa after 15 odd years of ISS, Evo and PES.
 
P34SEMM said:
PES09 for me was the worst. Made me go to fifa after 15 odd years of ISS, Evo and PES.
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Lons said:
The same as me. Pes 09 to FIFA 09 looks like cat compere do elephant. FIFA 09 smashed Pes. It was KO. Since that time PES little by little lost battle in particular in Europe.
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Oh yes, that one was bad. When I think it was probably worse than 2008.

Regarding PES2019, I'm a very casual gamer these days and I've learned to be satisfied with less, i.e. football fundamentals. And they are there in place in that game, I dare to say. If KONAMI manages/wants to fix these few glaring issues, it would offer me everything I expect from football game.
 
Lons said:
The same as me. Pes 09 to FIFA 09 looks like cat compere do elephant. FIFA 09 smashed Pes.
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Was it FIFA 08 or FIFA 09 where there was a new engine (the demo started in the arena) and the ball was completely free for the first time ever?

There have been two football gaming moments in my life that made me go WOW, that really shook me, that stand out as incredible moments from day one (no having to play the game for ten hours straight to see the differences, just immediately, "wow, this is incredible")...

One was playing my first Winning Eleven game on PS2 - I think it was WE6FE, it was the one with the We Will Rock You intro I think. Every single little thing about the gameplay was better. I got my PS2 home, loaded it up, and my friends and I couldn't believe how much better than PES it was. That first night I played until 6am, and I only stopped because my dad was getting up to get ready for work - and even he ended up playing it until he had to leave the house.

Two was downloading that FIFA 08/09 demo with the arena, and instantly feeling how detached the ball was from the player. My jaw hit the floor. This was what I had been waiting for since I started playing football games - the real feeling of kicking a ball, in any direction, with any trajectory. The ball was truly free and it was immediately obvious.

I keep thinking to myself - will I ever have another "wow" football-gaming moment in my lifetime? Or is that it? I'm not ready for that to be it!

I had my PS2-gen "wow" moment - then a PS3 one - when is my PS4 one? (Rather than "this will do for a year"!)

Or is the power of consoles exclusively going to be used for graphics and microtransactions from now on? No more advancements in ball physics, or in realism, in AI?
 
The new engine came in FIFA 07 and FIFA 08/09(with new collision system) were only upgrade engine created in FIFA 07. When i saw first time FIFA 07 on new engine and played a lot Pes 6 i knew that hard times will come to KONAMI series. I didn't wrong.....I wrote it on many Pes forums and people were laughing at me.
 
Chris Davies said:
when is my PS4-generation "wow" moment?
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Nothing wowed me in Ps4 football games. It's weird but it feels like we are still at the beginning of the new console cycle with better looking ports of old gen games, yet we are nearing the end. Not a single really innovative element in Pes and Fifa.

If anyone has a wow moment from this generation of football games let us know.
 
Ameppe said:
Nothing wowed me in Ps4 football games. It's weird but it feels like we are still at the beginning of the new console cycle with better looking ports of old gen games, yet we are nearing the end. Not a single really innovative element in Pes and Fifa.

If anyone has a wow moment from this generation of football games let us know.
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The only real innovations I can think of were the "Team Spirit" addition to ML (which I really like, but its implementation is essentially <40=AI cheats, >80=never lose), FIFA's two-button tackle method (which I like, it means tackling isn't just "hold X to win", but there's an invisible barrier around the attacking players), and now FIFA's "timed finishing" mechanic (which is a big mistake in my view, but at least there's an option to turn it off).

Oh, also, FIFA's new tactical system - which sounds great, but they made similar promises about the AI playing different "styles" last year and it was just total bullshit, every team passing to the striker ASAP.

But if I stack PES's innovations up against FIFA's - I mean, PES isn't even trying.

Other than those things, it's all graphics-related isn't it? PES looks great now, photo-realistic sometimes. FIFA has all the Premier League stadiums / managers plus the La Liga stadiums / managers. (But I hate the manager thing, because it means that, in Career Mode, the managers never change even over the course of 15 years.)

Lons said:
No at all. When i saw FIFA 14 on my new PS4 in 2013 i said "wow". It moves and looks superb.
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True, I thought it felt great to control - but I didn't go "wow" because it wasn't a huge change like the other moments (IMO), it wasn't a massive leap. Plus (like PES 2019 actually) the AI etc. spoilt it.

FIFA 16 on PC with the realism patches is pretty fantastic in terms of AI and play variation - but when you feel how much more "free" the ball is on 17 and 18 (with more chances of random things happening), I struggle to enjoy it.
 
PES 3 (Winning Eleven 7 here in the states) was the first football game to wow me on the PS2.
FIFA 08 wowed me (although I didn't like it) on the PS3.
Nothing has wowed me on the PS4. Nothing.
 
Gunslinger said:
Nothing has wowed me on the PS4. Nothing.
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Are you saying that about all PS4-generation games in general?

A few stand out for me. The Witcher 3. The Divinity games. Most of all, probably PUBG (horribly executed and yet it still manages to be one of the most compelling gaming experiences out there).

I don't think I'm too old for gaming (yet) and/or that I'm too old to be impressed. But the comfort zone Konami and EA are in is just completely incompatible with innovation.

It's been said three trillion times but without a serious bit of indie competition, I think us offline and realism guys are screwed. Maybe it's time for a Kickstarter.
 
Chris Davies said:
It's been said three trillion times but without a serious bit of indie competition, I think us offline and realism guys are screwed. Maybe it's time for a Kickstarter.
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Between the Fifa career declarations and Pes care for the offline, I think it's quite obvious that it's where we are headed.. bar some biblical and super unlikely event that could change the trend (like microtransactions banned ), imho this will literally be the only alternative in a few years for single player, togheter with retrogaming.

I wonder if we could do something in regard of a Kickstarter, as a community? Generally it's independent developers that launch ones, I don't know what or how we could do by starting the other way round..

does somebody have Seabass number:BOP:?
 
PRO_TOO said:
not sure if this was posted before:
Comparativa PES 2019 vs FIFA 19 de gráficos 4K y HD
https://www.gamereactor.es/comparativa-pes-2019-vs-fifa-19-de-graficos-4k-y-hd/
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Thanks for posting that!

Very little to separate them now. PES's "star faces" are incredible - a lot better than FIFA's - but then both games have such cartoony-looking generic faces that, when a "star" stands next to a generic player, it looks like some live-action cartoon film (e.g. Who Framed Roger Rabbit).

I realise that they have to those kinds of generic faces because otherwise you'll have a load of photo-realistic generic guys who look nothing like their counterpart, whereas with the slightly cartoony ones they at least have features that can make them look something like the real person.

But yeah, in general, very little to separate the two now, graphically. Just a shame PES doesn't have more stadiums to admire, there's a pitiful amount year after year. What I find most interesting, though...

...is seeing the gameplay side-by-side. I think it shows up how ping-pong and silly PES looks on occasion compared to FIFA, but also how FIFA's ground-passes never leave the floor, which looks really strange too.
 
Those FIFA ball physics on ground passes are disgustingly bad for a modern sports game. Absolutely no way I could look past that... It's that jarring it'd piss me off every single time I'd try playing it, just watching that video has made me not even want to bother downloading the demo when it's out.
 
rojofa said:
Those FIFA ball physics on ground passes are disgustingly bad for a modern sports game. Absolutely no way I could look past that... It's that jarring it'd piss me off every single time I'd try playing it, just watching that video has made me not even want to bother downloading the demo when it's out.
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:CONFUSE: Yet you're okay with all the basic stuff that PES does really badly (ping-pong passing, keepers who don't come out, AI that does a 180-turn and passes the ball away when faced with a 1-on-1 with the keeper, AI that can only attack using low-crosses from the wings and never shoots from distance)? That's crazy, man.

Both games have gameplay issues. I'm the one who's just pointed out that glued-to-the-ground passing. But I don't think it affects the gameplay feel (first-touch error in FIFA is fantastic, for example, no matter if the ball doesn't leave the surface on ground passes).

EDIT: Just watched the comparison video again, something I've only just noticed... The speed is pretty much identical between the two, isn't it? In general, I mean. That's surprised me - for every pass on the FIFA half where I think "that's too quick", there's one on the PES half that's just as quick.
 
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rojofa said:
Those FIFA ball physics on ground passes are disgustingly bad for a modern sports game. Absolutely no way I could look past that... It's that jarring it'd piss me off every single time I'd try playing it, just watching that video has made me not even want to bother downloading the demo when it's out.
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Fully agree with that.... i mean about the ground passes. Still going to try it out.
The weird thing is that this wasn't the case in previous Fifa editions, so i'm surprised to see it now.
Ball looks more floaty in areal passes too. I wonder what has changed, cause the ball physics really weren't that bad in 18. Do feel they are better in pes, but not bad in fifa....until now.
 
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Chris Davies said:
:CONFUSE: Yet you're okay with all the basic stuff that PES does really badly (ping-pong passing, keepers who don't come out, AI that does a 180-turn and passes the ball away when faced with a 1-on-1 with the keeper, AI that can only attack using low-crosses from the wings and never shoots from distance)? That's crazy, man.

Both games have gameplay issues. I'm the one who's just pointed out that glued-to-the-ground passing. But I don't think it affects the gameplay feel (first-touch error in FIFA is fantastic, for example, no matter if the ball doesn't leave the surface on ground passes).
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My post made no mention of PES whatsoever, so it never hinted I was okay with any of that. I'm not, I think all of that is bollocks as well.

I'm not much of an offline player thankfully, so in some online modes and private matches then I find enough good in PES 2019 to be worth my time at the moment as it negates most of the AI flaws (rooted GKs, low cross spam etc), though it still might not hold my attention all year round.

I just could not stand playing a game with those absolutely tragic ball physics though. If PES had similar physics then I'd play neither of them. Total deal breaker for me.
 
elfie said:
Fully agree with that.... i mean about the ground passes. Still going to try it out.
The weird thing is that this wasn't the case in previous Fifa editions, so i'm surprised to see it now.
Ball looks more floaty in areal passes too. I wonder what has changed, cause the ball physics really weren't that bad in 18. Do feel they are better in pes, but not bad in fifa....until now.
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Yeah, I don't remember them looking so bad in FIFA 15 or 16 (last ones I played much of) or even most of the 360/PS3 gen... Looks more like physics of the PS2 games to be honest.
 
I'm a pretty big stickler for the details but I don't get the argument that FIFA's ball physics are all that bad.

Yes, PES's physics for the most part are excellent, and maybe after playing so much PES it'll be tough going back to FIFA, but I played 100+ matches of the FIFA 19 beta and not once did I think the ball physics were an issue.

IMO both games have differences in how they replicate aspects of football that when coming from the other game can be difficult to adjust to, and often they'll stick out like a sore thumb in these gameplay videos (which are often horrible indicators of how the game will feel to play once in your hands).

The speed of animations is a great example for both games - plenty of people think PES's animations are too slow; plenty think FIFA's are too fast. But in my experience if you give each game enough of a chance - and I'm talking a week or two at least of some serious gameplay sessions - then usually you adjust and things like animation speed and ball physics of the game you're currently playing will become the new norm.

Not saying FIFA's ball physics don't have room for improvement - for me ball physics and player models are the two things I'd love FIFA to steal from PES - but I really don't see how they're that bad to be the reason not to play the game.
 
PES will never get near FIFA whilst they still use the same team of people, developers and PR liars ....

FIFA always feels like a package thats worth the money.... PES always feels like I've spent $50 on a half finished game

theres no longetivity with PES...it gets boring after 2 or 3 weeks EVERY year

PES doesnt have long left if we're to go by sales this year AND by Twitter comments

Even myclub fans are sick of Konami and the game.

its on its last legs and you know what? GOOD. Konami deserve this for shi**ing on us loyal consumers
 
mfmaxpower said:
I'm a pretty big stickler for the details but I don't get the argument that FIFA's ball physics are all that bad.

Yes, PES's physics for the most part are excellent, and maybe after playing so much PES it'll be tough going back to FIFA, but I played 100+ matches of the FIFA 19 beta and not once did I think the ball physics were an issue.

IMO both games have differences in how they replicate aspects of football that when coming from the other game can be difficult to adjust to, and often they'll stick out like a sore thumb in these gameplay videos (which are often horrible indicators of how the game will feel to play once in your hands).

The speed of animations is a great example for both games - plenty of people think PES's animations are too slow; plenty think FIFA's are too fast. But in my experience if you give each game enough of a chance - and I'm talking a week or two at least of some serious gameplay sessions - then usually you adjust and things like animation speed and ball physics of the game you're currently playing will become the new norm.

Not saying FIFA's ball physics don't have room for improvement - for me ball physics and player models are the two things I'd love FIFA to steal from PES - but I really don't see how they're that bad to be the reason not to play the game.
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I agree. Fifa's ball physic, while not perfect, isn't nearly the tragedy I often read about. I guess people sometimes tend to exaggerate flaws in the game they don't like..
 
Bad ball physics is more than enough reason for me to pass on a sports game, and that's not just for football; I couldn't play a tennis, snooker or golf game with such blatantly wrong ball physics/trajectories happening every single minute of the gameplay either.

If it was just some oddities in occasional situations you wouldn't see all the time, like deflected shots causing weird spin, or the ball not coming off the post at the right speed... Fair enough, these happen rarely enough that I could deal with it if the rest of the physics were decent.

Short passes are the most commonly seen thing in the game. There's probably 150-200 per 10 minute match, and 95% of them look ridiculous, sliding around like an ice hockey puck. The movement of the ball looking natural is a massive part of the immersion... My suspension of disbelief has a limit, and these ground passes are a step too far. With modern graphics fidelity and hardware capability, it sticks out even more than in previous generations.

If you can look past it and enjoy what FIFA has to offer, good for you - I wish I could, because it's clearly a far better overall package than PES off the pitch, and in a few ways on it (single player AI), but I cannot get past those physics.
 
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Lons said:
FIFA 19 v Pes 2019 on wide camera. Pes smashed FIFA on graphics. FIFA 19 looks like PS3 game compere to Pes 2019 on wide cam. On zoom FIFA 19 looks better than Pes 2019.
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I don't undertstand why Fifa gameplay graphics have gotten worse since move to Frostbite other Frostbite games look incredible. Fifa now look like shit.
 
Mikhail said:
PES will never get near FIFA whilst they still use the same team of people, developers and PR liars ....

FIFA always feels like a package thats worth the money.... PES always feels like I've spent $50 on a half finished game

theres no longetivity with PES...it gets boring after 2 or 3 weeks EVERY year

PES doesnt have long left if we're to go by sales this year AND by Twitter comments

Even myclub fans are sick of Konami and the game.

its on its last legs and you know what? GOOD. Konami deserve this for shi**ing on us loyal consumers
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Fifa's package wont get my money this year - as it misses the mark on the key fundamentals, ie. realism (player physics/mechanics, ball physics, ball size lol). Close up, the players look good, but in game (where it counts for.. id say a majority of people.. certainly me) it looks trash. How can one get past this, before even discussing the AI and presentation issues. Fifa19's demo has been promptly deleted from my ps4.. 20mins it took..easy to see I wont like it. I did enjoy the mini-games I had at the start of the 2 games. Anyways, I love showing my partner, who hates football, both games one after the other and asking for her opinion. She think PES looks fantastic and realistic, and think fifa is odd looking. I think, until fifa's developers actually address this, ill never play the game properly.
Finally, im not sure why on earth you think Fifa's sales have anything to do with PES's supposed demise. That's what we call 'bro science'. PES has more than enough supporters to keep making half assed games which I gladly pay full price for.. in fact double the price (bought both ps4 and pc versions this year).
 
aussiepesfan said:
Fifa's package wont get my money this year - as it misses the mark on the key fundamentals, ie. realism (player physics/mechanics, ball physics, ball size lol). Close up, the players look good, but in game (where it counts for.. id say a majority of people.. certainly me) it looks trash. How can one get past this, before even discussing the AI and presentation issues. Fifa19's demo has been promptly deleted from my ps4.. 20mins it took..easy to see I wont like it. I did enjoy the mini-games I had at the start of the 2 games. Anyways, I love showing my partner, who hates football, both games one after the other and asking for her opinion. She think PES looks fantastic and realistic, and think fifa is odd looking. I think, until fifa's developers actually address this, ill never play the game properly.
Finally, im not sure why on earth you think Fifa's sales have anything to do with PES's supposed demise. That's what we call 'bro science'. PES has more than enough supporters to keep making half assed games which I gladly pay full price for.. in fact double the price (bought both ps4 and pc versions this year).
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Well at least you gave it a fair chance!
 
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