FIFA/FC vs PES/eFootball

Gunslinger said:
I have the complete opposite opinion. While there has been the odd decent game I suppose, I think PES has essentially been going nowhere for over a decade. All the things that once made PES great like the shooting, ball physics, player individuality, master league, foul system, edit mode, PES shop, etc... either haven't been improved, have gotten worse or no longer exist. From my experience, other than the graphics and some animations, PES is an inferior game and more expensive product than it was 11 years ago. FIFA, on the other hand, is a far better representation of the sport than it was back then.
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Somewhere I agree with what you say! There were good things in PES-a that disappeared. What you have listed up to somewhere is true and hardly anyone would argue about it but on the other hand, I think the ball physics in PES 2018 is not bad, the shots also have to work on them, but they are not as bad as they were in much of the PS3 era. FIFA has never had players individuality, never! One year's shots are good in another, they are ridiculous, the same applies to the physics of the ball, even in FIFA I do not remember having a game that has a realistic a ball physique, even the size of the ball was a problem, the player's models too. I can not agree that FIFA is a better representative of the sport ... just can not see why this is claimed after the game's gameplay seems to be a like 5-year-old trying to explain a football match that he's been dreaming about. I'm sorry but FIFA has always been that. If you mean about some presentations, I kinda agree, that they try to look like TV broadcast, but after the game start ... all get to feel and look like a joke.
 
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PESBUL said:
FIFA has never had players individuality, never!
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I don't agree in the slightest, Fifa 16 and 17 had objectively plenty of individuality, 18 too even if the general game direction obscured it a little. Full of editing works, if the base games aren't enough, that could prove you the opposite of what you're saying.

I'd be way more worried about Pes individuality if 2018 is the model they're gonna run over the next few years.
 
With saying player individuality i think he means more the different running styles,dribbling,corner kick styles etc.
These things were always better in Pes.In Fifa they don't even exist.Every player dribbles the same,takes corners the same and when they're running for the ball they all run in the same retarded way,kinda like Sterling runs in real life with his upper body super stretched up and looks ridiculous lol.

In Pes many times you can feel which player you control only from their body model and the way they move in general.
This happens mostly with the most known players but still it gives a good sense of individuality.In Fifa it's like they're 11 clones.
 
Well, that's his definition of "individuality". For me, stats portrayed on the field comes way before. I mean I see what you say, but to me running styles etc. it's stuff that I honestly pay less attention to after a good chunk of games.. I of course agree that it's also important for the immersion to have players that move in a proper way, but at the same time if a game suffers for whatever reason in characterizing the proper ability of a player, like Pes 2018 for example, I can't ignore it because it's an integral part of the gameplay rather than mostly a cosmetic one like styles of run and way to take corners are. But to each his own priorities I guess.

By the way I don't think it's true at least in the latest Fifa, that all the players moves the same.. while it's obvious that there is way more variety in Pes in this regard, just by looking at Robben, Griezmann or let's say Kolarov or others I can see different way of moving around. Then you can like it or not and that's of your taste, some are just plain bad to see, but after all I already said myself that animations and models wise Pes 2018 is the best soccer game ever came out.. problems are in most of the rest at least to me :D.
 
rockstrongo said:
The thing,at least for me,both pes 18 and FIFA 18 has tons of potential under the hood.
To bad we can't reach that
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This.

Pes will never reach the heights (gameplay wise) of the PES 5 era. The modern day fans accept mediocrity - just look at Twitter. Konami spend more time tweeting about new faces and classic kits than fixing gameplay.

Football gaming is dead.
 
guru83 said:
This.

Pes will never reach the heights (gameplay wise) of the PES 5 era. The modern day fans accept mediocrity - just look at Twitter. Konami spend more time tweeting about new faces and classic kits than fixing gameplay.

Football gaming is dead.
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Wow...Take it easy with the optimism bro...:D
 
guru83 said:
Sorry mate, just so bored with both games now. FUT and FantasyClub are EA/Konami’s focus now.
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Well this is kinda unavoidable in this modern era because most people care about online gaming and both companies are aware of that and try to milk them as much as they can so they can have the biggest profit.
But also many people are into the career modes stuff and companies knows that so i think they won't abandon these modes to not lose these customers.Konami especially,if they lose the Champions League license like it's rumoured,i think they'll try to enhance their offline modes and gameplay in general to somehow make up for the fans reactions.
EA on the other hand,because they have a much bigger playerbase,they're much more of ''hostages'' of this online situation.So i think they'll stay much more focused on online to keep the Fut kiddies happy and still having ridiculous match scores and flicks fests because it's ''fun'' apparently...

I still kinda enjoy both games with some modifications like sliders/speed etc.
I enjoy Pes more.Yes it has many issues but i try to keep my focus on the good beautiful things like animations/graphics etc.I don't think that the classic Pes 5/6 etc. were so amazing (well for then they were,but for now they're very outdated) games and now suddenly the modern ones are garbage.If i had to choose only one to play i'd still pick Pes 18.
For me they're improving every year but in small steps the truth is.I hope these steps will become bigger for Pes 19 and eventually for Pes 20 which will be the last of the new trilogy.Many things must be improved and i hope they'll make the midfield game better and better shooting system.The sure thing is that it will be somehow different because these recent years the next game is always different from the previous to some degree so i'm curious to see what changes they'll implement.
 
you are quite optimistic about pes
yes they did improve every year but somehow they also fxxk up something every year
for example player switch/selection was not a problem before but existed this year
maybe they could fix it next year but then another thing could get worse, we just don't know the reason behind
losing license is not an indicator that konami would improve gameplay/ml to compensate
the game already had quite a few license but I don't think they tried their best on improving ml
you can simply compare pes2013 and now, konami added some new features but lost much more than the past
I remember they said they revamped ml in 2016 I think and I just' LOL, is that what you mean revamped?'
they also said the gameplay is the focus for quite a few years and now we still have a game that barely has foul and so many minor problems
 
I get quite a few fouls in 17 , pens a scarse though. Seen lots of bookings and a few sending off in my Spanish league. Not sure what went wrong in 18. It's like they make inroads then rather than build on it they change a mess it up. Not sure in a business how it's possible surely someone would flag it early
 
Dennis_87 said:
With saying player individuality i think he means more the different running styles,dribbling,corner kick styles etc.
These things were always better in Pes.In Fifa they don't even exist.Every player dribbles the same,takes corners the same and when they're running for the ball they all run in the same retarded way,kinda like Sterling runs in real life with his upper body super stretched up and looks ridiculous lol.

In Pes many times you can feel which player you control only from their body model and the way they move in general.
This happens mostly with the most known players but still it gives a good sense of individuality.In Fifa it's like they're 11 clones.
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So true...
 
Flame said:
you are quite optimistic about pes
yes they did improve every year but somehow they also fxxk up something every year
for example player switch/selection was not a problem before but existed this year
maybe they could fix it next year but then another thing could get worse, we just don't know the reason behind
losing license is not an indicator that konami would improve gameplay/ml to compensate
the game already had quite a few license but I don't think they tried their best on improving ml
you can simply compare pes2013 and now, konami added some new features but lost much more than the past
I remember they said they revamped ml in 2016 I think and I just' LOL, is that what you mean revamped?'
they also said the gameplay is the focus for quite a few years and now we still have a game that barely has foul and so many minor problems
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Yeah i may sound optimistic but it's because for the last 3 years i liked more the next Pes than the previous and i think they improve it every year.Not in huge steps but still.So i think that will be the case for 19 also and i will like it more than 18.I liked Pes 14 much and i think that 18 is closer to 14 than 15,16 and 17 was.I still enjoy 18 on superstar and 20 min matches on -1 speed.It's frustrating many times and i'm going mental but i also like the challenge.And on -1 speed i love the weightiness and the way the player feels and moves is just incredible at times.

For me personally player switching is not a big problem.Yes it gives me the wrong player sometimes but it happens rarely and it's nowhere near a game breaker.But the game has enough of other issues that surely must improve.The thing is that it's just a game and as much as you improve it,it will always have issues so as soon as you come in peace with this idea,things become easier and you enjoy more the good elements of the game.

Another reason that i feel like staying optimistic is that gaming technology proceeds with very high speeds at the moment.I'm seeing some new trailers and gameplays from new video games that will be released in the near future and some are looking really breathtaking.From graphics to animations etc. some times they look like real movies.I can't wait till this new magic technology will come to football games also and i think we will witness some incredible things in the not so far future.
 
I don't know about you guys but 2018 is moving really fast for me.
I mean... it's April already. We're two months away from the World Cup and by the time we realize it, it will be August. Which means Gamescom. So this year there are a lot of distractions that really help waiting for news/screenshots/videos of PES and FIFA, it's actually a lot less hard.

I heard rumors that PES lost the Champions League license, I don't know if that's true. But if it is, it would destroy PES. UNLESS... instead of destroying PES, it could actually make it a solid game. How? Well, since PES won't have any of the major leagues or tournaments officially (much less exclusively) licensed THE ONLY WAY to capture old and new fans attention would be by displaying a rock solid gameplay and also providing with certain tools to help the community make the game feel more completed.

It's either that or... the end of PES.
IF (and it's a big IF) the news about Konami losing the UEFA CL licenses is true.
 
It wouldn't destroy it if they made the game even more editable. Why not make it so within master league you can set your own custom tournaments up and import your own competition logos. That way you could still have it just not offically. I don't think they'll go this way though as myclub seems to be priority. I think the key for pes is open it up as much as possible for console users. Make sharing easy and painless
 
Gunslinger said:
I'll be happy if EA have picked up the Champions League license. They'll do a much better job with it.
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EA don't need anymore licenses to make the game good they need to stop with the 12 patches that keep changing the game for the better then for the worse
 
Not saying EA need anymore licenses to make the game good. It already is good. I feel pretty confident EA will integrate the Champions League nicely into the FIFA career mode and generally present it in a better way than Konami has ever done though. PES is just a confusing and not very enjoyable mish-mash of licenses.
 
PES died with the release of PES08. Simple. Its been rubbish ever since.
I never bought FIFA (apart from 1st one ever released for Mega Drive) but PES09 forced me into it.
Try PES every year only to hate it. PES18 is the first PES ive never bought.
I got given a PC copy the other day, loaded it up, played about 5 mins and thought why am I doing this? So uninstalled and gave disc back.
Me and PES are finished.
I got FIFA18 on switch for the kids. They like it. I play the odd game.
 
I find it odd that a game with such a well polished package like FIFA actually feels so crap out of the box.
Guess I am a PES diehard ultimately who enjoys building it from a very poor base into something worthwhile..
Its become a challenge to make it totally authentic but that is usually where I end up.
 
The Frostbite for engine isn't working very well. From a static view, it looks good, but once in motion, it's a bit of a cluster. Take it from someone who uses sliders to determine animations, etc. The behavior of these animations are just a bit out of sync for some reason. Playing FIFA 16 again reinforces the idea that ignite was much better - but definitely dated. One would hope they could have improved upon it, but it may have been at its max capacity. I'm not sure what they can do with Frostbite either though. They do need to take a page out of KONAMI's book and improve the lighting significant for the environment and especially pitch.

Yet, after all that, still enjoying it more than PES 2018. Feel like the players are actually responding to what is happening with the ball, versus just affording space throughout the pitch.

I think both games have this very "soft" feel to them. It's as if the ball gets blended into the player's animation, and the physics just come off as not completely being "solid" in their feel. A good comparison for FIFA is FIFA 16, and for PES, it'd be more like 18's nexgen vs the PS3/360 version.
 
I totally agree with Matt.
What strikes me as odd is the fact that EA being the monster it is, couldn't think ahead far enough. They implemented Ignite for FIFA 14 and it only lasted 2 years. It became outdated graphics wise too quickly. Then they switched to Frost Bite and it clearly wasn't ready, and it may never will. For all we know, EA may change to yet another engine soon (if not for FIFA 19, for FIFA 2020) and FrostBite will be remembered as a bump in the road. An engine which never got to reach its full potential and gained more hate than love. It's just my opinion, of course. And I could be wrong and maybe they hit the nail this year and finally get the animations and transitions a lot smoother and realistic.

PES has been using FOX ENGINE for 4 years now, which proves the choice they've made was much wiser and there's still a lot of potential in it. In fact, Duranhill (a modders) found out some unused features such as dynamic weather (day to night, windy, etc) while learning Stadiums structures. So who knows, PES 2019 could finally give us something a lot better.
 
Matt10 said:
The Frostbite for engine isn't working very well. From a static view, it looks good, but once in motion, it's a bit of a cluster. Take it from someone who uses sliders to determine animations, etc. The behavior of these animations are just a bit out of sync for some reason.
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EA doing EA things. Business decisions above all other technical considerations. They forced frostbite to all their devs, and it hasn't been smooth sailing (mass effect). Also i'm still playing fifa16 and even reinstalled 15. And I can tell you that the animations in 15 where just as weird and junky compared to a much more solid fifa14. But I guess having 3d grass was of the utmost importance back then. Animation-wise 14 and 16 are two of most solid fifa games though, with real "weight".

I believe the pes team is much more competent in this regard. Although pes was lagging behind for some time, so some of their work on animations benefits from the fact that it's more recent and fresh. Everyone has already forgotten everything about the dreadful slow-mo GKs. :)

I have absolutely no doubt that they can make a great and realistic game. The only problem is that this is no longer their goal and hasn't been for a good few years now.
 
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Yeah, FiFA 15 had worse animations than 14. But I can live with that. Compared to those horrible input lag with player movement of FiFA 14, it was one of the worst game I've played. FiFA 11 was much better than 14, the ball had more realistic feel in 11 and input lag wasn't that horrible on 11.
 
manmachine said:
EA doing EA things. Business decisions above all other technical considerations. They forced frostbite to all their devs, and it hasn't been smooth sailing (mass effect). Also i'm still playing fifa16 and even reinstalled 15. And I can tell you that the animations in 15 where just as weird and junky compared to a much more solid fifa14. But I guess having 3d grass was of the utmost importance back then. Animation-wise 14 and 16 are two of most solid fifa games though, with real "weight".

I believe the pes team is much more competent in this regard. Although pes was lagging behind for some time, so some of their work on animations benefits from the fact that it's more recent and fresh. Everyone has already forgotten everything about the dreadful slow-mo GKs. :)

I have absolutely no doubt that they can make a great and realistic game. The only problem is that this is no longer their goal and hasn't been for a good few years now.
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Hmm, I have the opposite feeling.
 
EA have proved in FIFA 18 they make a superb football game, around patch 7 it was awesome and the only improvement i wanted is better player models. It had aggression, fouls, build up play and then they patched it out..i would really like a patch selector for offline players if they are going to do this ongoing. Its as though they are not familiar with the engine and by addressing one thing it affects another and they didnt realise it would happen. Or they just keep changing their minds to try and satisfy everybody for 3 months of the year
 
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