FIFA 21 Discussion (Console Versions)

Slower gameplay beta.. we had this talks before with previous version. faster fifa has been winning formula. I also think slower gameplay speed could not really match some of their animations, except normal fifa fast gameplay and slow mo replay.

Sorry if not related but probably if i was at EA side and looking at the future sales point of view, i would not worry much to make many "gameplay changes" from last year.. since the formula sells very well and have they done that ?

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Yeah, if you believe that we gonna get a slower gameplay this year - lower your expectation. Exactly the same story served by EA every fu.king year. Every video that leaked at this time of the year presents quite good game that a lots of us would be happy to play, then even demo seems to be quite playable. What happens next? Gameplay is getting systematically faster and faster after the 1 day update (full game) and basically FIFA becomes the same unplayable shit after a pre-release day.

It's a bait. I'm not buying this anymore EA, you've bought me 3 times in a row but now you won't see my money.
 
Dribbling is comical, but even if you don't use it and even if the cpu does not use it, it's defending that will absolutely 100% ruin the game offline.
Look at that "line", and that obvious pass. lol.

So in 21 attackers will not run offside not because they are now smarter, but because defenders will cover as usual. No goal is worth anything if you start looking at how defending works.

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Chris Davies said:
Yeah, I'm back in this camp after the last few videos of mannequin defenders I've seen.

@Matt10 - give us some hope...
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The thing that frustrates me is that it doesn't seem like EA cannot create smart defenders (or attackers) -it's in their code if they choose to use it. They just set them to be stupid. I know I've used this before but since it came up again, they've said attackers will be smarter about not going offside. There's a file in Frosty under positioning called 'Attacker Bad Offside Avoidance Rate' and 'Bad Offside Avoidance Duration'. The values in here range from 0.7 to 0.2. If you put them to 0.01 or 0.02 you'll still see it happen occasionally, but for the most part your attackers will time their runs better and simply won't go offside.

Defenders - for example, there's files dedicated to the amount of perception required for accurate marking. In general, if you halve them then you're getting closer to a good value, that's how far off the programming is for a simulation. I really hope some of the fundamentals are improved on because that can be a big, big help, and @Matt10 saying that annoying defensive jockey behaviour being gone is a great start, but in terms of overall intelligent behaviour, we'd have to see a pretty big turnaround.
 
Anth James said:
I really hope some of the fundamentals are improved on because that can be a big, big help, and @Matt10 saying that annoying defensive jockey behaviour being gone is a great start, but in terms of overall intelligent behaviour, we'd have to see a pretty big turnaround.
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I don't understand how it is gone however. It is the direct result of the 1v1 concept. A player is assigned to track a player and he does so. If he's a midfielder he then hits a spot where he just stops and the game switches to another player. So players switching between tracking/running and stopping/jockeying is the result of 1v1s and 1v1s are still in the game, no one has said they're on their way out.

It could be that it's done more efficiently on a higher difficulty? Players are recovering/reacting faster like we can tweak them to do so in 20?
It's still the same concept though.
 
manmachine said:
I don't understand how it is gone however. It is the direct result of the 1v1 concept. A player is assigned to track a player and he does so. If he's a midfielder he then hits a spot where he just stops and the game switches to another player. So players switching between tracking/running and stopping/jockeying is the result of 1v1s and 1v1s are still in the game, no one has said they're on their way out.

It could be that it's done more efficiently on a higher difficulty? Players are recovering/reacting faster like we can tweak them to do so in 20?
It's still the same concept though.
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Yeah that makes sense, 1v1s have caused so many issues, I really wish they'd scrap it. I'm not sure the way they've fixed it, I just hope it's true haha. It doesn't strictly happen when the marker is being changed (although that definitely is one way), sometimes they just approach the attacker when they should be protecting the space in front of them.
 
Well, Einstein showed that time is relative, it can vary depending on your speed through space.
If you're Neymar, Agile Dribbling™ at the speed of light, everything else, including the game speed might indeed feel too slow. If you're not Neymar however, maybe the game speed is too fast?
 
This looks horrible. Same old shit on the awful Frostbite Engine.

Sliders will be the answer for some but not for me, if the core game is terrible no amount of tinkering will smooth out the glaring issues the game has had since FIFA 17.
 
Good news is, a source with the beta has told me you can, when playing offline, turn "agile dribbling" off (that ridiculous shit Neymar is doing above). And the "ghost arms" stuff too (by turning handballs on, which actually works).

But it seems like the issues I have from 20 are still there to some degree.
 
Chris Davies said:
Good news is, a source with the beta has told me you can, when playing offline, turn "agile dribbling" off (that ridiculous shit Neymar is doing above). And the "ghost arms" stuff too (by turning handballs on, which actually works).

But it seems like the issues I have from 20 are still there to some degree.
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If only they could introduce an option to turn off 1v1s. And then all these options could be grouped under a sim mode. They know what is needed but they're taking their sweet time. Unfortunately we are all mortal experiencing ageing...
 
As someone who's still generally enjoying fifa 20 with Matt's sliders, these vids are uninspiring.

The one thing that always amazes me about non-slidered fifa is that no football match looks like this ie with players all spread 10 yards apart, fixed into rigid zones with lines all equally spaced too. It makes me wonder what game they think they're simulating.
Even if they have zero interest in simulating real football, which it seems they dont, why choose to create a subbuteo style of football where the same move plays out over and over since fifa 07?

I can overlook a lot if a match plays out organically, with players inter changing, moving, clustering and spreading. Base fifa always resembles a kind of wire-frame version of football. My expectation is that one day, this kind of rigid, linear way of programming team behaviour will render Matt's sliders irrelevant...
 
manmachine said:
If only they could introduce an option to turn off 1v1s. And then all these options could be grouped under a sim mode. They know what is needed but they're taking their sweet time. Unfortunately we are all mortal experiencing ageing...
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My only hope is that they introduce exactly this. Hell, even if they never make a separate offline gameplay, you could at least have a switch to give our defenders back their brains, because we don't give a shit about the skill gap.

They're still saying nothing about next-gen, too. Will it have different gameplay? Will it have none of the new features, because it's taking longer to develop?
 
Chris Davies said:
My only hope is that they introduce exactly this. Hell, even if they never make a separate offline gameplay, you could at least have a switch to give our defenders back their brains, because we don't give a shit about the skill gap.

They're still saying nothing about next-gen, too. Will it have different gameplay? Will it have none of the new features, because it's taking longer to develop?
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Took me quite a few matches to realise why 1vs1 is such a problem...I only play 3-4 matches a week of fifa 20 so didnt see it at first but getting your defensive midfielders to cover the centre is like micromanaging lemmings at times.

The problem also is there's a lack of intensity when you're defending, a lack of daring or making last minute decisions and challenges because you're constantly just waking everyone up...

The finest example I've witnessed of players switching off has to be me with Salah on liverpool's right wing, cutting towards the D of the penalty area and sadio mane up by the top corner of the penalty box, maybe 15 yards away, literally stood still, body facing away from the action, towards the sideline crowd, looking up at the sky, admiring the clouds as if he was on a stroll through an empty park or subject to a Blair Witch mind-control spell...
 
FShas said:
Took me quite a few matches to realise why 1vs1 is such a problem...I only play 3-4 matches a week of fifa 20 so didnt see it at first but getting your defensive midfielders to cover the centre is like micromanaging lemmings at times.
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Naming the feature "1v1" was basically the biggest marketing con job they've pulled off. It doesn't affect the 2 players engaged in a 1v1 in the slightest. That part plays out like in every other football game that's ever existed. It is simply turning everyone else off.
 
My experience with the beta so far. The pace of the game is nice, the build up play is better, and the passing is much more improved than FIFA 20.

I’ve seen complaints about the speed of the game, and I have the feeling that somewhere along the lines it will be changed in the final version. I hope I’m wrong.
 
Chris Davies said:
They're still saying nothing about next-gen, too. Will it have different gameplay? Will it have none of the new features, because it's taking longer to develop?
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Based on their post FIFA 21 teaser info dump, I'm going to go out on a limb and claim that it'll have the same exact feature list, but with extra bells and whistles.


Stats-driven player movement
Enhanced animation technology in FIFA enables you to experience ultra-responsive and realistic player movement.

Deferred Lighting & Rendering
Authentic new environments, unlocked by a new deferred lighting system create ultra-realistic football experiences and player fidelity, enhancing the game in every part of the stadium

Reimagined player bodies
Next-gen technology creates deeper definition in player physiques, while dynamic lighting accentuates details such as faces, hair, kits, and uniforms to take athletes to a whole new level of realism.

Move Next Level
Realism reimagined. Emotion is everything.

Stats-driven player movement
Enhanced animation technology in FIFA enables you to experience ultra-responsive and realistic player movement.

Off-ball humanization
From adjusting shin pads in the 89th minute to screaming for passes in the endzone, player humanization unlocks the most authentic character behaviours ever seen in sports video games letting you see the detail and feel all the emotion of football at the highest level.

Gameday immersion
New contextual player, bench, and fan reactions let you feel the explosive passion of a last-minute winner or a game-clinching touchdown. And pre-game cinematics deliver an unprecedented matchday experience to immerse you in the sights and sounds of professional football.
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How drastic the enhancements and changes will be remains to be seen, but even if it's minimal, I can't envision the Xbox/PS5 version not being the superior version. On the flip-side, what if, and it's a massive if, the animations are improved? Surely that would affect the actual gameplay. All we can do is wait and see.
 
I wonder how they'll marry the stuff above with the crescent need for ping pong and speed of their FUT junkies. Because it sounds great on paper but since animations for example are already castrated enough in this gen for this exact reason..

Same with the "off ball humanization" thing.. I'm very skeptic of all this.
 
Chris Davies said:
Good news is, a source with the beta has told me you can, when playing offline, turn "agile dribbling" off (that ridiculous shit Neymar is doing above). And the "ghost arms" stuff too (by turning handballs on, which actually works).

But it seems like the issues I have from 20 are still there to some degree.
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The only thing I've found in turning Agile Dribbling off in the beta is, to enable or disable Contextual Agile Dribbling in one-on-one situations.
 
The way players move their legs and arms are absolutely bizarre for me. And i think it gets worse every year.

I can't have fun with that kind of gameplay... hope they change the engine some day.
 
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