FIFA 21 Discussion (Console Versions)

The agile dribbling stuff looks awful. Both the Son and Mane bit feels like watching something on acid. But at least it can be ignored like the rest of the skills.. assuming CPU won't do that clownish stuff on the "normal" difficulties, otherwise would be beyond bad.

For the rest, hard to give a clear cut judgement but also hard to find anything to be truly hyped for. The positioning awareness stuff should be something to highly look forward to on paper, but then you see the same midfield space problems in other bits and it all goes in the thrash.
 
Chris Davies said:
I've just realised that this guy is the FIFA producer this year.


The producer is an "ex FIFA coach" - not as in, a real football coach, as in, someone who charged people money to tell them how to get better at playing FIFA. And he was (is?) a YouTuber. He is now the man in charge.

So what hope do we have, seriously?

Anyway, here's that deep-dive.

https://www.ea.com/games/fifa/fifa-21/news/pitch-notes-fifa-21-gameplay-features-deep-dive
Click to expand...

The deep dive for me is like the back of the box features. I'd buy it from the breakdown of the gameplay details alone. So much good in it. If anything, I appreciate their efforts and also for their transparency overall.

FWIW, I remember "interacting" with a pro player during the 20 beta forums, and our goals were completely out of sync. He wanted FIFA ball, and I wanted more real football. The good thing was, he was open minded and started to understand what was good about the prepatch beta in particular - and how the slower pace could allow him to control the ebb and flow to his advantage. My hope is that the detail and effort here addresses that same type of understanding. As sim/realistic players, we are always going to be in the disadvantage right away, but the closer the base is set up with proper logic - the better. I think what is illustrated in the deep dive is exactly on that path. It's just going to be really hard to judge fully until the game is in hand, or if someone can show gameplay of more than 6 min halves.
 
Nice Season Update trailer.
I can already see positioning awerness being watered down because of the complaint "i cant one pass through the field to my striker/defender always blocks my shot/pass".
 
Matt10 said:
The deep dive for me is like the back of the box features. I'd buy it from the breakdown of the gameplay details alone. So much good in it. If anything, I appreciate their efforts and also for their transparency overall.

FWIW, I remember "interacting" with a pro player during the 20 beta forums, and our goals were completely out of sync. He wanted FIFA ball, and I wanted more real football. The good thing was, he was open minded and started to understand what was good about the prepatch beta in particular - and how the slower pace could allow him to control the ebb and flow to his advantage. My hope is that the detail and effort here addresses that same type of understanding. As sim/realistic players, we are always going to be in the disadvantage right away, but the closer the base is set up with proper logic - the better. I think what is illustrated in the deep dive is exactly on that path. It's just going to be really hard to judge fully until the game is in hand, or if someone can show gameplay of more than 6 min halves.
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For me, each one of these things sounds good until you either A) read the detail of how they're implementing it, or B) see the end result in the engine.

A)

For example. Check out these two lines from that "Pitch Notes" doc...
  • 2-Man Marking To Prevent Counter Attacks - Ability for two defenders to mark a striker
  • DM Cutting Passing Lanes - Awareness to cut off passing lanes and limit opponent’s options
Sounds great. Except... They both have the following requirement:
"Requires player to have very high Defensive Awareness attributes."

Earlier in the doc, they qualify that "85 is good, 90 is significantly better, 99 is exponentially superior". So "very high" is 85+.

So. If I play outside the Premier League... Defenders don't defend? :BORED:

They're saying it's impossible for two second-division CBs to man-mark a danger man - and that my second-division DM can't do a DM's job because his "Defensive Awareness" is less than a Premier League player's "Defensive Awareness".

As a footballer, you don't "unlock" the ability to mark a man, or to cut a passing lane, when you sign for a Premier League team... This is absolute bullshit. Everything is designed for Man City v Man United. If you don't play with those guys, you don't "activate" these AI triggers.

It's all designed for competitive online play and nothing else.

B)

Check out the Real Madrid striker here - the one who runs offside at the start of the video. Just watch his movement. Forget everything else.

FIFA 21 Video Clip

What human being moves like that? The animation system runs at 2x-3x speed to allow him to step backwards a little bit. We aren't controlling human beings, we're controlling weightless, skating, jittering glitches of things. In a game that costs millions of dollars to develop, and is supposed to represent the real world.

After he glides backwards, he starts moving towards the penalty spot like this, but at 2x speed:

giphy.gif


And it reminds me of:

giphy.gif


This doesn't just affect the look, it affects the feel. I'm supposed to feel in control of a person, yet it feels like I'm throwing a 1lb ragdoll around.

And it means that I can instantly snap players to various positions that a human being wouldn't have the momentum to be able to reach.

So I'm sorry but this, for me, is just more confirmation that PES and FIFA are being made for - and will forever be made for - FUT players and kids. You can put all of these mechanics on top of something, but if that "something" still has players made of plastic bags and 100% pass accuracy so that nobody gets their feelings hurt when they misplace a pass (and now scoring has been made easier too, as I said in my last post)... Then what the hell does it matter??
 
Ahh i can always count on you guys to give me a good laugh. I didn't expect much from this other than colourful distracting marketing and the regurgitation of features from FIFA 2004 & PES 2012 such as off the ball targeting and controlled runs being passed off as pioneering, But seriously some of the stuff they greenlight to show in trailers such as that ninja dribbling on a whole new level while citing realism is just hypocritical. It looked like something you'd expect to see in a cartoon caricature parody of a 2004 C. Ronaldo.

Chris Davies said:
I've just realised that this guy is the FIFA producer this year.

The producer is an "ex FIFA coach" - not as in, a real football coach, as in, someone who charged people money to tell them how to get better at playing FIFA.
Click to expand...
That is very cheeky & deliberately misleading. That's like saying i'm an astronaut because i played No Man's Sky.
 
Competitor Mode
In FIFA 21, we added a new setting called Competitor Mode, designed to refresh the CPU AI in Career Mode and FUT Squad Battles.
This is a brand new way to play against the CPU AI that aims to replicate the play styles of some of the best FIFA Pro Players in the world. Competitor Mode gives the CPU AI a better understanding of skill moves, dribbling, spacing, tactics, and it will constantly look to create better scoring opportunities. You can expect aggressive passes, complex skill moves, and even a change of tactics and mentality if you are leading against them, for example.
Click to expand...

So. If you want the cpu team to change tactics depending on the scoreline, you'll have to put up with them playing like a fut clown. And if you don't use the competitor mode, expect man city high pressing you like idiots even when they need to defend a lead.

What a joke. Seriously, who thought of this? Dr. Poplove? What made them think that if you play on world class (it's only for the top 2 difficulties) or if you DON'T want to play against a "fifa pro player", you also don't want the cpu changing their tactics? I hope this is just badly written and someone will clarify: "Yeah, the cpu changes tactics outside of competitor mode too". It's just so stupid it's hard to believe it's for real.
 
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Chris Davies said:
I've just realised that this guy is the FIFA producer this year.


The producer is an "ex FIFA coach" - not as in, a real football coach, as in, someone who charged people money to tell them how to get better at playing FIFA. And he was (is?) a YouTuber. He is now the man in charge.

So what hope do we have, seriously?

Anyway, here's that deep-dive.

https://www.ea.com/games/fifa/fifa-21/news/pitch-notes-fifa-21-gameplay-features-deep-dive
Click to expand...
I need a "yikes" reaction button here.
 
Hahaha, at the end of that deep dive article:

"No ball collision with hands - Outfield players’ hands, and forearms, are now ‘permeable’ and should not collide with the ball, preventing 'hand-ball' situations from influencing the play in any way. When we say ‘permeable’, we mean that the ball, visually and physically, will pass through the player’s arm, from below the elbow to his hands. Example of this undesired situation in FIFA 20: when a defender attempts to blocks a shot, but the ball hits their hand instead, preventing a goal."

So not only are referees ghosts now, but so are your own limbs. So much for realism.

That's the end of the handball setting, then... Nobody tell @Placebo about any of this!
 
FIFA 21 Preview: Attack Destroys Defence in Early Gameplay Hands-on

Sweeping attacks are a common occurrence in FIFA 21. Players bomb forward with greater intent than before, sprinting at full speed to overwhelm defences who are outnumbered more often than not. And this is before utilising the new creative run mechanic, which allows you full control over where your AI team-mates sprint by flicking the right stick after passing the ball with them. EA called this a "game-changer" in the presentation, and although it's simple to execute, it's exactly the kind of gameplay quirk that will make defending feel like a fruitless chore.

The patterns shown at this preview stage indicate that the developers want you to be scoring plenty of goals after a barren year on FIFA 20, which was defined by defensive fortresses. FIFA 21 is currently set up to leave defensive players feeling exasperated and helpless. Until EA tweaks the defence again for FIFA 22, of course.

From:
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...k-destroys-defence-in-early-gameplay-hands-on
 
Chris Davies said:
Hahaha, at the end of that deep dive article:

"No ball collision with hands - Outfield players’ hands, and forearms, are now ‘permeable’ and should not collide with the ball, preventing 'hand-ball' situations from influencing the play in any way. When we say ‘permeable’, we mean that the ball, visually and physically, will pass through the player’s arm, from below the elbow to his hands. Example of this undesired situation in FIFA 20: when a defender attempts to blocks a shot, but the ball hits their hand instead, preventing a goal."

So not only are referees ghosts now, but so are your own limbs. So much for realism.

That's the end of the handball setting, then... Nobody tell @Placebo about any of this!
Click to expand...
This is promoted as new feature? This is clearly a step back...
 
manmachine said:
The patterns shown at this preview stage indicate that the developers want you to be scoring plenty of goals after a barren year on FIFA 20
Click to expand...

Most of people will like it, unfortunately the hardcore crowd is less and less taken into consideration every year.
 
manmachine said:
FIFA 21 Preview: Attack Destroys Defence in Early Gameplay Hands-on

Sweeping attacks are a common occurrence in FIFA 21. Players bomb forward with greater intent than before, sprinting at full speed to overwhelm defences who are outnumbered more often than not. And this is before utilising the new creative run mechanic, which allows you full control over where your AI team-mates sprint by flicking the right stick after passing the ball with them. EA called this a "game-changer" in the presentation, and although it's simple to execute, it's exactly the kind of gameplay quirk that will make defending feel like a fruitless chore.

The patterns shown at this preview stage indicate that the developers want you to be scoring plenty of goals after a barren year on FIFA 20, which was defined by defensive fortresses. FIFA 21 is currently set up to leave defensive players feeling exasperated and helpless. Until EA tweaks the defence again for FIFA 22, of course.

From:
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...k-destroys-defence-in-early-gameplay-hands-on
Click to expand...
Well whaddya know. It is exactly like that Pitch Notes reads after all! Even more braindead defenders.

Seriously, realistic sports games are done, aren't they?

EDIT: Holy shit, there are some big quotes in this article.

"There still seems to be a confusing lack of clarity on different difficulty settings. Legendary, supposably the game's toughest mode, provided less of a challenge than World Class, mainly because the harder AI would look to attack more and leave canyons of space to counter in. Matches against Man City finished 6-1 on legendary and 2-0 on World Class despite using the same Piemonte Calcio lineup."

"EA has included a 'competitor' option on Legendary, which turns the AI into a wannabe FIFA pro player. It does a good job of playing more like a top-level human opponent, complete with drag backs and skill moves every few seconds."

It sounds absolutely terrible.
 
So the only way to have a competitive match in 21 will seriously be to have a reduction of that silly, cartoonish FUT stuff? For fuck sake, it's so bad it sounds like a parody of everything this community hates. I had exactly zero expectations as well and it's still managing to piss me off.
 
TBH FIFA 21 is hitting my expectations.
I expected it to be FIFA 20, with more skill moves and faster game speed.

I have lost all faith in EA, but I will still play it when it comes out and then just moan about it some more.
But then my only alternative football game is PES and I dislike that more, so it is complete lose-lose in terms of football games for me.
Luckily though thanks to Chris Davies for finding the SWOS MODS, I have been playing that for hours over the summer.
 
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Chris Davies said:
Well whaddya know. It is exactly like that Pitch Notes reads after all! Even more braindead defenders.

Seriously, realistic sports games are done, aren't they?

EDIT: Holy shit, there are some big quotes in this article.

"There still seems to be a confusing lack of clarity on different difficulty settings. Legendary, supposably the game's toughest mode, provided less of a challenge than World Class, mainly because the harder AI would look to attack more and leave canyons of space to counter in. Matches against Man City finished 6-1 on legendary and 2-0 on World Class despite using the same Piemonte Calcio lineup."

"EA has included a 'competitor' option on Legendary, which turns the AI into a wannabe FIFA pro player. It does a good job of playing more like a top-level human opponent, complete with drag backs and skill moves every few seconds."

It sounds absolutely terrible.
Click to expand...

And then can't wait to struggle against Morecambe and Burnley on this game too since they play more defensively. So basically a repeat of FIFA 20.
 
rojofa said:
That thing where you control the direction of the teammate's run has been in PES for years (and almost nobody uses it).
Click to expand...

I laughed when they showcased manual runs because I distinctly remember manual, off-the-ball runs being introduced in FIFA 04. FIFA 04.
 
Football Games =Skatepark.
Fifa 21 is the fucking kid turning up on his kickbike.
Yeah...i skate a lot (ask my how I feel about kickbikes)
 
AlaaEG said:
View attachment 54459

Sums it up, right from the start.
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- The defensive line is still all over the place
- The midfielders keep a much straighter line. Because that's the invisible forcefield that they refuse to cross to track attackers, just like in 20!

It should be the other way around, lol. So I'm counting SIX liverpool players running behind 4 defenders who haven't got a clue.

Completely in line with the bleacherreport article ("Players bomb forward with greater intent than before, sprinting at full speed to overwhelm defences who are outnumbered more often than not") AND the leaked video from a few days back. Even if it was on semi-pro, but so what? All they've got on higher difficulties are dragbacks and el tornados it seems.

An even worse looking example from the pitch notes! Gotta love that perfect errrr... midfield line, not giving a <beep!>, half a pitch away from the defence. It's like a version of volta inside the box:

Capture.JPG
 
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