Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3

Great video (in that, it's really good to have this shit recorded).

As you say, Clubs is a disgrace - though saying that it's basically all the problems of the normal game made a lot fucking worse. Clubs has -enormous- promise. My main concern is that EA focus most of their intention on the 1vCPU, 1v1 game - where realistically you can get a LOT better understanding of the games faults from clubs - because you experience a lot more dimensions to the game, you also experience a critical issue.

The number of things they need to do to solve Clubs is enormous - most of them should be at least touched on - but it will be interesting to see, even if the pressure is mainly fixed this year, whether it's 'fixed' for Clubs. Clubs is the future, it's the mode with the most promise going forward from either game - and some of the moments you get on Clubs are beyond any you get on any mode from any football game - but they are more than drowned out by the idiocy.

Assists, defensive AI, stupid shite defenders, stupid shite goalie, pressure, goalkeepers, set piece exploits, fatigue, and it goes on, and on. All of these things effect Clubs worse than 1v1. It would be nice, and I am 100% sure this won't happen, but it would be nice if at these various events, they actually set up some 10v10s, or even 3v3s.

And then.. there is one of the other problems which is the accomplishment system. The fact alone that EVERYONE has 99 shot power after a while is a huge, huge issue. With assists, it's literally - get to 35 yards out - press shoot - goal. It won't work everytime but it will work enough times to make people spam shots from everywhere all the time. The best thing is the moron goalie not holding the ball.

The random players need ratings of 80, at least, and VP's should not be able to exceed 90. So much to really talk about with this problem. My worry is how little EA have inputted into it. Yes, clearly this is their last array of announcements, but, it would be really nice to hear a little more about the crucial details which you know you won't hear at the gamescom press conf.
 
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man.. that video doesn't look impressive at all.. game speed is too fast and way too easy to score.
 
It was touched on above but clubs can reach heights that no other mode in FIFA but those moments are rarer than a Fabianski catch. I'll be sorely pissed if the mode doesn't get sufficient work this year. I can't even touch fifa10 clubs anymore. More clones than a star wars movie. I'd actually like to see manual only control settings, I mean it's supposed to be all about your vp skill.
 
^What about tricking randoms into playing a manual 1 v 1 match? Is there any satisfaction to be had there still.

I'm about to drop $30 on a used copy because with the season starting up this weekend, and after watching the Community Shield, and watching France's youngsters play Norway, and Chicharito kicking it off of his face, fantasy footy season starting, Higuain's outside of the foot shot versus the Galaxy, Ronaldo's inch perfect pass to him earlier in the game for the fisrt goal, blah, blah, blah, I HAVE TO GET MY VIRTUAL FOOTY FIX!

I rented 10 twice around the time that it came out and took it back within' 4 days both times. I can't take it anymore though, lol. I know it's going to frustrate the shit out of me and remind me of why I didn't buy it but I don't care. I can probably sell it on Amazon again for the same price that I bought it for anyway a little while before 11 comes out (which, with the online pass shit, I'll probably have to buy).
 
I really wouldn't bother. It's not long til the demo comes out. I'd get the world cup game if you havnt already. I'm still playing and enjoying it and it's sooooo much better then fifa10 which even just on the visual side looks like a ps2 game in comparison.
 
ant0n said:
That's why I think PES 11 will be even worse than 10. There is no skill involved with the tricks. Any player can do them with just one simple flick? WTF is that? The only move that is Messi-like is the scoop and FIFA's skill dribble. The PES boys loved making fun of FIFA for the so called circus tricks, but now that PES has taken a the circus tricks to another level and I just cannot help but laugh. I predict that addition will kill the gameplay online. PES has become such an arcade game. I don't think it can even challenge FIFA until the next generation. And that is a huge problem really. What is going to push EA to improve FIFA so it does not become another Madden series that has no competition.

Might I add that one thing that really grinds my gears about PES is how EVERY player can perform a perfect back-heel pass. What type of joke is that?
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Professional players should be able to pull off tricks if they wanted to, but it all goes down to the level of skill of each player. I'm not pro and play sunday leagues and can perform tricks, and many of my mates in our team can. It's only a case of our skill level and when to perform them. Some of us panic in tight spaces and will end up losing the ball, while others are more confident.

In PES's case in comparison to Fifa, we should be able to perform skills with any player, with the success factor depending on the technique attribute, which is fairly realistic to me. If it wasn't attribute-driven then I'm with you.

Problem with Fifa is that it isn't attribute-driven, and therefore skills are performed by any player having the same outcome. That's one of my gripes with Fifa.

That's why I keep hoping Fifa becomes attribute-based, and not only about strength and speed. Then we'll be able to feel many differences between players.
 
Clubs *should* be the most realistic mode in FIFA - You can potentially have every outfield player controlled by a different person, each customized to look like themselves, each playing like themselves on and off the ball (as it is the actual player controlling them).

There's hardly any AI interference, teams communicate and work together... It's got so much potential yet FIFA 09 and (to more of an extent) FIFA 10 have not come close to fulfilling it...
 
and yet, just occasionally it shines through - which is encouraging. Factors alone like, the defenders/goalie not being short and shit, should make an enormous difference. Who knows.

FIFA 09 was marginally better primarily because it didn't have the defender/goalie moron problem.
 
A ha.

Rob92 said:
teams communicate and work together...
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Must be different in properly organised clubs, because the few random public pickup games I played in were like the school playground; everyone chasing after the ball, standing miles offside, and only wanting to score on their own.

Put me off the whole idea of Clubs pretty early on, in addition to the lag and game speed making manual controls nigh-on impossible.
 
nerf said:
A ha.


Must be different in properly organised clubs, because the few random public pickup games I played in were like the school playground; everyone chasing after the ball, standing miles offside, and only wanting to score on their own.

Put me off the whole idea of Clubs pretty early on, in addition to the lag and game speed making manual controls nigh-on impossible.
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This is true, even in Clubs mode, that's why I used the word "potentially" - you come up against teams who play like this, but they can match you purely because they play on assisted and know all the exploits.

As Rodelero says, occasionally when things go your way or by some miracle you come up against a team that plays fair, it's incredible and some of the moves you can put together look very realistic. It's the moments like that which led us to persevere with Clubs through the shitty games (although eventually my club got too pissed off and stopped playing, don't blame them).

The point is that one player controlling a whole team of "real" players will never be truly realistic - we don't really have the ability to make players play exactly like their real life counterparts, making the effort to completely change our approach as soon as the ball is at the feet of a different type of player while at the same time thinking about tactics and stuff.
Also, no matter how good AI gets, it will never replicate human decision making, so off the ball movement and defensive positioning won't be that realistic (although FM does do a decent job of this).

I could go on but I think you can see the point I'm making.
 
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when Clubs is played properly there's nothing that can touch it. The key is making playing Clubs properly the way to win. FIFA 11 will get closer - there are changes being made that I don't think I can talk about (and therefore won't) but which should improve things before the passing error and stamina changes are even factored in; even so I think Clubs will still be a highly magnified version of whatever the 1v1 game will be like, with it's peaks and troughs being peakier and troughier. Even if the gameplay is intended to teach people that playing properly wins you more games, there's still the problem that some people are just thick at learning. Clubs is best when EVERYONE plays properly, not just your side.
 
Clubs just needs an even playing field again. Limit the VP's to 80-85, with position specific higher attributes.

09 Clubs was miles ahead of 10's effort. Hopefully 10 was the transitional period from real life to your own club.

romagnoli said:
when Clubs is played properly there's nothing that can touch it. The key is making playing Clubs properly the way to win. FIFA 11 will get closer - there are changes being made that I don't think I can talk about (and therefore won't) but which should improve things before the passing error and stamina changes are even factored in; even so I think Clubs will still be a highly magnified version of whatever the 1v1 game will be like, with it's peaks and troughs being peakier and troughier. Even if the gameplay is intended to teach people that playing properly wins you more games, there's still the problem that some people are just thick at learning. Clubs is best when EVERYONE plays properly, not just your side.
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Rom, just tease us a little. Tickle our senses a touch ;)
 
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I can't, sorry :(

I'm 100% against making Clubs full of identical players with slight tweaks based on position. It's notthe concept of VPs that is wrong; it's the implementation.
 
romagnoli said:
I can't, sorry :(

I'm 100% against making Clubs full of identical players with slight tweaks based on position. It's notthe concept of VPs that is wrong; it's the implementation.
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How SHOULD it be implemented then? Explain your bad self.
 
There isn't really a way to implement VPs in a way that would work IMO.

People will always choose the maximum or minimum height/weight to go for the extremes in strength or pace.
It's not really reasonable to cap the height at, say, 6'2 to prevent this, as there's probably plenty of people taller than that who play FIFA, but without a limit there will always be the aforementioned problem.

Then you have the fact that there's loads of kids who make their VPs look like clowns and don't use their real names...

At least without VPs on 09 the players were of regular height (until the created player glitch was found).
 
I think I did in the Suggestions thread? There was a big debate about it on the fishal forums. What I suggested for starting your VP off seems to be what PES has done actually.

I want a stats cap so you can't 'max out' your VP. Also I think 3/4 of the improvements you get should be fixed, with an additional 1/4 being form-based so that in order to get maximum passing stats you have to be hitting dangerous passes regularly etc. So you choose to be an attacking midfielder, develop a natural ability to pass or control the ball, but if you want to become more of a defensive midfielder after a while of using your VP then you have to keep his defensive game up, rather than just making a few tackles and being a better tackler forever.

This system of stats capping would need you to be able to make more than one VP which was a very contentious issue.
 
Ah right, yeah.

I definitely like the sound of that idea. I take it this isn't what they're doing from what you know, otherwise it wouldn't be a 'suggestion'. :(
 
Yeh, Fifa 10 has a star rating for play skills. a 1 star player cannot do the tricks that a 5star player can do. Problem is there were way too many 5 and 4 star players.
 
I think he mean the success rate of a trick. In FIFA you always have 100% success rate except from the roulette thingy (which doesn't have dynamic error, the success is always exactly the same and fail too).

There should always be some error in the tricks IMO, so that even if you do succeed with a trick it might be slightly to the side and so on. Would look and play much more realistic.
 
Rob92 said:
There isn't really a way to implement VPs in a way that would work IMO.

People will always choose the maximum or minimum height/weight to go for the extremes in strength or pace.
It's not really reasonable to cap the height at, say, 6'2 to prevent this, as there's probably plenty of people taller than that who play FIFA, but without a limit there will always be the aforementioned problem.

Then you have the fact that there's loads of kids who make their VPs look like clowns and don't use their real names...

At least without VPs on 09 the players were of regular height (until the created player glitch was found).
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You have set number of points to distribute between attributes and that's it. No boosts. No unlocking of more points either. This way there can at least be some individuality.

Can't think of another way. Similar to now but obviously not being able to max everything out!

NHL is allegedly getting rid of the clown gear so hopefully FIFA will too cos it's fucking ridiculous!!!
 
I don't think Fifa will stop the boosts and that. They make too much money off of the morons that pay to increase their players, even if for a short amount of time.
 
BobbyBox said:
I don't think Fifa will stop the boosts and that. They make too much money off of the morons that pay to increase their players, even if for a short amount of time.
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Hey it's better than the boosts used in NHL where it's $5 for a permanent boost pack.
 
Gab_ said:
I think he mean the success rate of a trick. In FIFA you always have 100% success rate except from the roulette thingy (which doesn't have dynamic error, the success is always exactly the same and fail too).

There should always be some error in the tricks IMO, so that even if you do succeed with a trick it might be slightly to the side and so on. Would look and play much more realistic.
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100% success rate, only if you performed the trick with the controller sticks perfectly. Even with 5 star players, my success rate with tricks is pretty low. Given, I'm not that player who spends a lot of time practicing tricks, but still, isn't the way PES is doing tricks by pre-assigning them going to make it very easy to pull-off a string of complicated tricks?

I'm still a bit confused as to how PES is implementing their new trick system, but it sounds like it'll be easier rather than harder to pull of crazy stuff than FIFA.
 
FIFA's system could definitely do with being a little more error prone with the more difficult tricks. Only two as of now can actually go wrong - so really that possibility of going wrong needs to be brought across to all complex tricks.
 
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