Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3

It's a reference to how the PES faithful took the mickey out of someone who said something like 'if x isn't fixed then I'm not buying PES 2011'.
 
Originally Posted by Gary Paterson
Until then, here are the reasons why I feel sprint press/secondary press is less of an issue in 11:

a. Tackling
- Tackle animations are slower than in FIFA10, that is to say that they are longer to ball contact (less responsive if you like).
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Anyone else bothered by this? I understand it's a balancing act but something sits wrong with me when the answer is making one part of the game worse, i.e. less responsive.

Maybe less responsive isn't worse? But reaction times are critical in video games, so how is this improving the game? Shouldn't the answer be to make tackles less effective, not less responsive?

Hopefully this won't be an issue in the end but it sounded odd to me, and I was wondering if anyone else thought likewise.
 
mfmaxpower said:
Anyone else bothered by this? I understand it's a balancing act but something sits wrong with me when the answer is making one part of the game worse, i.e. less responsive.

Maybe less responsive isn't worse? But reaction times are critical in video games, so how is this improving the game? Shouldn't the answer be to make tackles less effective, not less responsive?

Hopefully this won't be an issue in the end but it sounded odd to me, and I was wondering if anyone else thought likewise.
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Yeah, it is a bit of a concern if they've essentially dumbed down a facet of the defense to make offense easier. I'm not entirely sure that that's the case but I've always felt like whatever they need to make sure that timing was critical when it came to tackles (I'm assuming he's talking about slide tackles), they should do that. And call more fouls!

If you turn your back to a man and he runs through you, call the foul. Don't let him run into you and magically come away with the ball. Judging from the lack of momentum in the video from earlier today, I'm not so sure that quick turn on an onrushing defender is gonna cut it like we hoped it would.

Making tackling less effective seems to be far less of a fix than simply revamping fatigue and stamina (which they apparently have). If people sprint for a half and suddenly realize that they're being outpaced by the other team no matter how long they hold turbo down, I'd imagine they'd have to sub him out (we'd finally have a reason to sub people in online) or continue to get throttled. And with that fatigue other aspects of their game should falter like tackling accuracy, shooting, passing, etc.

Slowing down tackling animations seems like it'll ensure that you won't be able to stop anyone with a little speed and trickery. Who knows how much they've decreased the responsiveness though...
 
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I think if he meant only slide tackles then he would have said slide tackles. I think he means both standing and sliding tackle animations.

If a slower tackle animation makes it easier for the attacker to avoid, then it might make people think twice about launching into tackles without thinking, and I'll take that as a positive. I understand the concern about loss of responsiveness but personally I feel like there's probably a bit of 'wiggle room', in that tackle animations are perhaps already faster than they should be.

It also might be related to player personality, in that maybe higher tackle attributes perform tackle animations faster (as well as over a wider radius)?
 
a. Tackling
- Tackle animations are slower than in FIFA10, that is to say that they are longer to ball contact (less responsive if you like).
- Tackle animations are shorter than in FIFA10, that is to say that the players have less reach with their tackles (attribute based).
- There are more errors in judgement on when to launch a tackle than in FIFA10 (when the dribbler has started a turn, a players ability to predict the direction of the turn - attribute based)
- Tackle animations have better momentum preservation than in 10, therefore defenders cannot break momentum in order to get the ball from you

All sounds good to me. The first one means the actual animation is longer, but the responsiveness to button press shouldn't change. It means you have to time it better and know how good a player can tackle to know how effective he will be. Also the lack of animation break should mean that AI can't tackle, make you stumble and then magically already be infront of you with the ball. Atleast I hope it comes down to that.

b. Pressing
- Has more delay in its target update after the ball changes direction (attribute based) so you will not be able to hone in on the ball quite so powerfully.
- Has delay to read the ball trajectory during a pass (attribute based) so you should be under less pressure when you recieve the ball.

Less accuracy and less speed in reaction is great imo. Auto pressing should be poor anyway, it requires no skill atm. If anything it might end up a help to get to the player (lock-on) but actually tackling him is timing and stat based.

c. Locomotion
- Is slightly slower accelerating from stand than it was in 10. This is because we are algorithmically controlling the players speed (therefore his is sticking to his definded acceleration curve) whereas last year this was an animation. This means that he player will take slightly longer to get to you.
- Does not allow the player to acclerate and turn (once above jog speed), this was allowed in FIFA10. Again, this means that he player will take slightly longer to get to you.

Realistic acceleration!

d. Dribbling
- Has better shielding than in FIFA10. For example, the player will auto shield from a defender if you turn away from him.
- Jostling is less clear cut than in 10 therefore giving more time to escape or pass the ball.

Better shielding should (statbased) make it easier to keep possesion with the correct players. I'm not sure what he means with the jostling though.

e. Stamina/Fatigue
Hopefully the video will be released soon but basically, stamina will have a greater effect on how quickly a player will fatigue and fatigue will have a greater effect on a players acceleration and sprint speed (among other things).

Finally! Hopefully it's also stat based and harsh enough!

Retrospectively it shows how poor player stat implementation was, or non existant! A bit of kick in the teeth for the data guys. I guess the positive aspect is that the difference already felt between players was actually based on so little elements that personality+ should add a huge richness to the game.
 
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Some dude posted this on the official boards
Some news from mr. Rutter
So, looks like we'll have a "different" stamina system. Also, in reply yo my question about the chants, apparently they'll be post-processed a bit, so hopefully they will sound even better than youtube also demo date announcement is coming on Tuesday. From Rutter's Twitter.
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klashman69 said:
I want FIFA 08 back with better responsiveness! :WORSHIP:
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StuartCulli said:
:BOP:
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I'm leaning towards agreeing with both of you. Even with it's bugs and unresponsiveness, I quite enjoyed it. Actually I remember saying if Fifa 09 was exactly like 08 with fixed responses then I'm sold. Not sure what happened with 09, suddenly everyone felt much lighter, and I didn't like it. Saying that, I enjoyed 09 more than 10...
 
mfmaxpower said:
Anyone else bothered by this? I understand it's a balancing act but something sits wrong with me when the answer is making one part of the game worse, i.e. less responsive.

Maybe less responsive isn't worse? But reaction times are critical in video games, so how is this improving the game? Shouldn't the answer be to make tackles less effective, not less responsive?

Hopefully this won't be an issue in the end but it sounded odd to me, and I was wondering if anyone else thought likewise.
Click to expand...

Absolutely not. It's something they desperately needed to do. Just reducing the stamina does not, in any way, fix the fact that the defending player was way too clairvoyant in attacking the ball. You could barely left stick dribble past a player at all in FIFA 10 because, even though you took a clever touch to change direction, the defending player who was sprinting at you would have such instantaneous reaction times that he'd respond to your direction change immediately.

Reducing the stamina might make the opposition struggle to get right up on you when holding double press, but would not change the fact that if you did try to take the player on you would struggle to beat them because they'd know what you were doing sooner than you did.

This is how you making tackling less effective - by making you choose the right moment to go in for the tackle, because sprinting at someone who has the ball well under control means they will have the ability to outmanoeuvre you. It's not about making the defender seem sluggish or drunk, but about tweaking how overly accurate the CPU was at reading the movement of the ball to something more human.
 
romagnoli said:
Absolutely not. It's something they desperately needed to do. Just reducing the stamina does not, in any way, fix the fact that the defending player was way too clairvoyant in attacking the ball. You could barely left stick dribble past a player at all in FIFA 10 because, even though you took a clever touch to change direction, the defending player who was sprinting at you would have such instantaneous reaction times that he'd respond to your direction change immediately.

Reducing the stamina might make the opposition struggle to get right up on you when holding double press, but would not change the fact that if you did try to take the player on you would struggle to beat them because they'd know what you were doing sooner than you did.

This is how you making tackling less effective - by making you choose the right moment to go in for the tackle, because sprinting at someone who has the ball well under control means they will have the ability to outmanoeuvre you. It's not about making the defender seem sluggish or drunk, but about tweaking how overly accurate the CPU was at reading the movement of the ball to something more human.
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As long as it's implemented properly otherwise it will just seem the game has become less responsive, it's a fine line to get it right and in the past EA tend to work best with ones you can see from space...;)
 
The Rutter stamina system one is odd I seem to remember him asking if the new stamina system is in and Rutter's reply is it's different?...

This could mean anything from the slightest of tweaks up, I guess we wait and see later this month...
 
romagnoli said:
the defending player who was sprinting at you would have such instantaneous reaction times that he'd respond to your direction change immediately.
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I also hope it applies to when defenders throw themselves to block your shots and passes.I mean it's beyond what a real life player could do, my player is in acres of space and he decides to shoot only to be blocked by the opponent who quickly threw himself.
 
Dunno, it might be. But you can tell when a player is about to shoot by the wind-up a player does before shooting, as well of course as being able to tell a player will want to shoot - so typically you get a lot more time to pre-empt a shot based on physical 'tells' and being in a situation where a shot is expected. How do you think this is done wrong at the moment?
 
romagnoli said:
Dunno, it might be. But you can tell when a player is about to shoot by the wind-up a player does before shooting, as well of course as being able to tell a player will want to shoot - so typically you get a lot more time to pre-empt a shot based on physical 'tells' and being in a situation where a shot is expected. How do you think this is done wrong at the moment?
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I couple of days ago I was using Bayern online, had the ball with Schweinsteiger about 30 yards out and hit a surprisingly powerful shot (rare in FIFA) towards the far corner that I feel would have beaten the keeper... A defender ran across and CHESTED the ball into his own path to control it, that's bullshit.
It happens even more on low shots where the defender takes a Bergkamp-esque first touch to block the shot and keep possession...

Also, mashing B (the auto clearance button) when a cross/corner comes in, or when trying to block a shot is way too effective, so I agree with kouroux.
 
That's not the same thing. That's ball control, not the shot blocking animation. One's a deliberately coded action, the other's an unfortunate coincidence of the current, shoddy trapping mechanism.
 
TikTikTikTikTik said:
a. Tackling
- Tackle animations are slower than in FIFA10, that is to say that they are longer to ball contact (less responsive if you like).
- Tackle animations are shorter than in FIFA10, that is to say that the players have less reach with their tackles (attribute based).
- There are more errors in judgement on when to launch a tackle than in FIFA10 (when the dribbler has started a turn, a players ability to predict the direction of the turn - attribute based)
- Tackle animations have better momentum preservation than in 10, therefore defenders cannot break momentum in order to get the ball from you

All sounds good to me. The first one means the actual animation is longer, but the responsiveness to button press shouldn't change. It means you have to time it better and know how good a player can tackle to know how effective he will be. Also the lack of animation break should mean that AI can't tackle, make you stumble and then magically already be infront of you with the ball. Atleast I hope it comes down to that.

b. Pressing
- Has more delay in its target update after the ball changes direction (attribute based) so you will not be able to hone in on the ball quite so powerfully.
- Has delay to read the ball trajectory during a pass (attribute based) so you should be under less pressure when you recieve the ball.

Less accuracy and less speed in reaction is great imo. Auto pressing should be poor anyway, it requires no skill atm. If anything it might end up a help to get to the player (lock-on) but actually tackling him is timing and stat based.

c. Locomotion
- Is slightly slower accelerating from stand than it was in 10. This is because we are algorithmically controlling the players speed (therefore his is sticking to his definded acceleration curve) whereas last year this was an animation. This means that he player will take slightly longer to get to you.
- Does not allow the player to acclerate and turn (once above jog speed), this was allowed in FIFA10. Again, this means that he player will take slightly longer to get to you.

Realistic acceleration!

d. Dribbling
- Has better shielding than in FIFA10. For example, the player will auto shield from a defender if you turn away from him.
- Jostling is less clear cut than in 10 therefore giving more time to escape or pass the ball.

Better shielding should (statbased) make it easier to keep possesion with the correct players. I'm not sure what he means with the jostling though.

e. Stamina/Fatigue
Hopefully the video will be released soon but basically, stamina will have a greater effect on how quickly a player will fatigue and fatigue will have a greater effect on a players acceleration and sprint speed (among other things).

Finally! Hopefully it's also stat based and harsh enough!

Retrospectively it shows how poor player stat implementation was, or non existant! A bit of kick in the teeth for the data guys. I guess the positive aspect is that the difference already felt between players was actually based on so little elements that personality+ should add a huge richness to the game.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it all sounds good, but I'll believe it when I see it. They tell us every year they've redone player switching, yet every year, it's as bad as the last.

I also wonder if all this reduced response/acceleration/etc applies equally to cpu teams as it does to human. What will the poor cpu do if it has to abide by the same laws of physics as the human's team?

It's only tactic was to have cheat response times and play perfect scripted passes all the time, so if it's now going to "play fair", what on earth can they have done to keep up it's chances of winning? Make the refs even more biased? Make even more ball deflections conveniently script their way straight to a cpu player? Make the cpu speed cheats even greater? Make your guys fall over even more often? Something has to give...or perhaps they just don't bother applying the new reduced response stuff and passing inaccuracies to cpu teams at all.
 
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