FIFA 09 PS3/360 Discussion Thread

Re: FIFA 09 - Discussion Thread

sweetkilla said:
Response times will be sorted for release ''surely''

I will find out for myself so soon!

placebo are you going to leipzig by any chance also ?
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Why do you keep saying "will be sorted for release" for every other issue spotted in 09? :LOL:

You do realize its an almost finished game and whats left to be sorted are kits, transfers etc. Not animations and gameplay stuff. As much as i'd love to see the responsiveness fixed but I can't see it happening.
 
Re: FIFA 09 - Discussion Thread

drekkard said:
I'm not bothered at all with response times not being ultra fast, I really don't find them that tragic in Euro, it's the control responsiveness what I really found dreadful in Fifa.

Making reaction times super fast as someone asks would be the end of the simulation road for the game. They could be tweaked to be 10% -15% faster for good players, and remain slow for the low-skill players.

Take Top Spin as an example. The low speed is what makes simulation possible, because it gives time for the player to perform skillful movements and actions. More time required to perform something make your actions as a player more important and decisive. How could you recreate drive precision in tenis if reaction and action times were about miliseconds? Of course, sometimes players are just too slow on doing something, but I prefer them to be slow than to be too quick if I can choose.

To me that's the exact thing happeninh in football games. Pes has gone the Virtua Tennis road, you simply tap a button and the player can do almost anything. Most of the action is decided by the cpu taking factors into account. Your actions as a player are more restricted, hence the arcade feel to it. Top Spin remembers me Fifa a lot. Sometimes it's excruciating the slowliness of players, but when I make a good drive, a nice passing shot or a good lifted ball, I get a lot of satisfaction knowing it's me who made it.

I understand their reluctancy to change it too much and destroy the gameplay that prsumably hardcore players are liking to date.

What worries me about the videos is the ultra accuracy of passing in general, but specifically in unbalanced / blind situations. That's the kind of thing that would kill the game for me, if simply passing upwards the ball reaches your striker and then you can simply run. That's what totally messed up PES some years ago in my opinion. Passing has to be hard, and in difficult situations, almost impossible.
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Exactly! Couldn't have said it better myself ;) :applaud::TU: With that said... I haven't played fifa09 myself and I sure want it to be more responsive than fifa08. I thought the responsiveness in euro2008 was quite good actually (read realistic) but that game had other issues...

My biggest issue with both fifa08 and euro2008 is that the goals scored are too similar. I want to see a lot of variety in the goals that I score and concede. That, i miss the most from PES, not ultra-fast-responsiveness and gameplay.
 
Re: FIFA 09 - Discussion Thread

Lami said:
Why do you keep saying "will be sorted for release" for every other issue spotted in 09? :LOL:

You do realize its an almost finished game and whats left to be sorted are kits, transfers etc. Not animations and gameplay stuff. As much as i'd love to see the responsiveness fixed but I can't see it happening.
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Why not they would not leave the response times as bad as euro 2008 because they know people would have a hissy fit! and this is one of the things they claim to have improved so it should be.

Optimism is what gets me excited about fifa games I know they improve the things ''I'' want improving and all of my complaints have been ''claimed'' to have been fixed and I will voice my own thoughts on the game in 10-12 days time :) so I can see if the response times are like Euro 2008 or if they truly have improved along with the rest of the game
 
Re: FIFA 09 - Discussion Thread

sweetkilla, although you are a spurs man i share your opinion of fifa 2009 :-)
 
Re: FIFA 09 - Discussion Thread

sweetkilla said:
Why not they would not leave the response times as bad as euro 2008 because they know people would have a hissy fit! and this is one of the things they claim to have improved so it should be.
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I would :-D

sweetkilla said:
Optimism is what gets me excited about fifa games I know they improve the things ''I'' want improving and all of my complaints have been ''claimed'' to have been fixed and I will voice my own thoughts on the game in 10-12 days time :) so I can see if the response times are like Euro 2008 or if they truly have improved along with the rest of the game
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Great mate. And please if you do realize it don't ignore and tell it like it is ;))

Then I will have to wait til Sept to try it myself.
 
Re: FIFA 09 - Discussion Thread

Lami said:
I would :-D



Great mate. And please if you do realize it don't ignore and tell it like it is ;))

Then I will have to wait til Sept to try it myself.
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Don't worry mate I will be 99% honest with my opinions of fif 09 and pes 09 :)

the 1% will be me believing things will be corrected from each title :P
 
Re: FIFA 09 - Discussion Thread

sweetkilla said:
:LOL: 4-3 :P my fave game of the last 4 years :)
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yeah i can laugh about it now mate, i was at the game and felt sick when the 4th goal went in...from stalteri of all people

still good to see your all things fifa, i think it will be a truly great game
 
Re: FIFA 09 - Discussion Thread

danhammer said:
yeah i can laugh about it now mate, i was at the game and felt sick when the 4th goal went in...from stalteri of all people

still good to see your all things fifa, i think it will be a truly great game
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I was there 2 :DD game of many emotions huh

and I wouldn't go that far there are many things that have made me break 5 controllers on a quick count in fifa 08 :LOL:
 
Re: FIFA 09 - Discussion Thread

What the hell is going on with the Porto goalkeeper uniform??
 
Re: FIFA 09 - Discussion Thread

i hate the way fifa doesn't give keepers the correct kits....this is one of my fifa pet hates
 
Re: FIFA 09 - Discussion Thread

Q: How would you summarise your first thoughts of playing FIFA 09 at i34?
ChrisyB: "I hope the game isn't finished yet, I think there is still a few bugs to iron out, I'm sure they will by release".

ChrisyB: "The game now moves a tiny bit faster and I'm glad they've stuck by last years version and re-vamped it, rather than start from scratch."

"However, the game still feels a bit sluggish. Players seem to want hold onto the ball and passes sometimes were a bit delayed, but like I said above, its not finished yet so I hope they can make some final adjustments".

Some great feedback there ChrisyB, many thanks and no doubt EAC will be listening closely to this following your continuing success this weekend.
 
Re: FIFA 09 - Discussion Thread

sweetkilla said:
Why not they would not leave the response times as bad as euro 2008 because they know people would have a hissy fit! and this is one of the things they claim to have improved so it should be.
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If you notice....in all the previews they talk about greatly improved response times in comparison to FIFA 08. I haven't read anywhere that response times are greatly improved over euro2008.
 
Re: FIFA 09 - Discussion Thread

I'll echo what Stahre said in page 8.


Passing needs to be made alot more unaccurate when passing in awkward angles (particularly backheels and passes that go towards the back of the passer).

They should go for a PES5-type stat vs. human input balance. You'd still have the benefit of analog aiming, but there woudl still be alot of variation and error range from where you were aiming. It would be nice to not feel like you always hit every mark with the passing. If you are running fast, being pressured and trying to pass awkwardly, the pass should end up completely failed, missing the mark with several meters.






The trapping is still well dodgy.

Example: 0:13 in this video, red player receives the pass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_eHGbu-k60


That really needs fixing, only the best of players would have enough technique to be able to flick that ball first-time to their left with their right boot when it comes from behind them on the right side like that. It's too perfect and way too neat. An OK reaction would have been if he had stoped it with the outside of his right boot and then as a second move turned with the ball in some direction. But having all that in one move from someone other than Ronaldinho looks fake. I'd rather have too sloppy trapping than too perfect. He just sucks the ball in there, realistically he might've had the time to stretch a leg out, but the ball probably would've just hit his leg and deflected a bit, not perfectly stuck to his boot as he turns with perfect balance. He doesn't even loose any speed, which in real life he probably would, since he would be trapping the ball so quickly that he hasn't had the time to properly balance himself for the move he makes.
 
Re: FIFA 09 - Discussion Thread

Hey guys, I've got an idea for a feature in FIFA that I'd like some feedback on.



It's basically a restructuring of the "Balance" stat.

It would be renamed into "Balance/Composure", and an additional stat called "Balance/Composure Regain" would be added.

Also, the "Balance/Composure" system would get a Gauge or meter, which would constantly monitor the balance/composure level of a player at any given point.


The "Composure/Balance stat" describes the maximum amount of the Balance/Composure Gauge the player can have filled.

The "Composure/Balance regain" stat describes how fast the player regains (or fills back up) his "Composure/Balance Gauge" when having performed an action that caused him to loose his composure and deplete his "Composure/Balance gauge".




Some definitions before we start:


Balance (how well the player can avoid falling down in a collision or interaction with other players, or specifically how well he can absorb collision energy without falling down).

Strength (how much weight the player has behind his body and how well he outmuscles competition, or more correctly how much energy he can transfer to other players in a collision

Composure (Basically another word for Balance, how well balanced and in control of his body a player is when performing actions, and how quickly and effectively he can perform several actions after one another without loosing the ball or making a mistake.



This System would have nothing to do with the "Strength" stat above, so this wouldn't make the player more massive or such when tackling other players.
Basically, the Strength stat describes how much mass the player has, and the composure and Balance describes how well he is able to control all that mass through various actions and interactions with other players.

Also, it is completely separated from the "Strength" stat, and they share no interactions.
The Strength stat is more of a pure physics stat just so that the game knows what the mass relationship is between two players when they collide. The Strength stat just shows how much energy a player can transfer in a collision, while the Composure system shows partly how well a player can absorb the energy an opponent transfers in a collision, while not falling down, and also partly how the player can keep his composure when doing any other action.

So the "Strength/Mass" stat is in effect only in collisions, while the Composure stat is in effect all the time.


Just so we're clear. :)




I think this would be a really good addition to FIFA, since currently it looks like the player either has total control and can do any action perfectly, or he looses balance completely and stumbles or is tripped. This would work a bit like a balance/composure stat gauge that keeps track of how balanced and in control of his own body the player is at any given time.


- A "fullest" "Composure Gauge" would be when standing still on the ground, with knees slightly bent.
- Running would be very good composure/balance.
- Sprinting still good composure/balance.


- performing action while standing still = minimal impact on composure/balance.
- performing action while running = moderate impact on composure/balance
- performing action while sprinting = big impact on composure/balance

The above is when comparing comparable/similar moves in different speeds or moving.


Some situations and examples of the Gauge in effect:


1. The more twisting or turning in a certain action, the less composure he will retain (a Marseille roulette would _usually_ put a big dent in the composure gauge).

When I say usually, this is what I mean:

The Composure/Balance gauge works on top of all stats.

So for a Marseille Roulette, the stat "Technique" would also be in effect.

So if a player with low technique and composure tries the Marseille Roulette, a couple of things can be observed:

1. The Marseille Roulette would be slow and "untechnical" in itself because of the poor Technique stat.
2. Since the player also has poor composure, not only would the Roulette be poor in speed, but it woould not only carry with it a bigger chance of injury while the player does the trick, but it would also carry with it a much bigger effect once the player comes out of the Trick, and he would have a much harder time to directly make a good pass or execute another trick like a Elastico or such.


Essentially, the "Composure stat" adds a way to not only define individual skills through stats, but also it helps define how well a player can for example perform several skills or actions after one another.


Also, it is very important to note that while the "Composure/Regain" stat would describe how quickly the player is able to regain composure after performing a hard trick or such, if the player also has a big "Technique" stat, that stat will diminish the debilitating influence of the "Composure/Balance" Gauge after a Trick or such.
But is that same player also has a mediocre shooting stat, bad composure will


So the "Composure/Balance" Gauge will affect different aspects of a players game differently based on his stats. Good stats will lead to a slightly lesser loss of composure when dealing with moves and actions that require that particular stat. Again important to remember that the Gauge carries from move to move, so a player with a good trap stat will also have an easier time instantly performing a pass after the trap than a player with bad trap stat.

So if 2 players, 1 with 89 trap stat and 56 pass stat, and 1 with 67 trap stat and 56 pass stat, try to trap a pass and then pass it themselves right after, the player with better trap stat will be more successful with his pass. His naturally better trapping ability helps him keep balance through that movement and he has a better Composure going into the pass movement.



2. The farther away the players legs are from his center of gravity, the less composure he would have (for example if the player is stretching to reach a ball, he is really uncomposed and has little strength to brace for impacts and also to control the ball with trapping etc.


3. Actions which performance is influenced by composure stat and gauge

- General movement/dribbling and ability to turn and move with the ball. Basically, if the player is busy trying to keep on his feet, he can't really be expected to dribble well. Bad composure here would lead to for example inaccurate knockaheads of unpredictable lenght, Trampling on the ball on occassion, Even loosing the ball and running past it due to stumbling too much, but generally just more unpredictable, uncontrolled touch on the ball where the player won't be able to keep it as close to him and would be more vulnerable to a defender swooping in and stealing it.

- Passing (unpredictability of accuracy, power) on top of pass stats

- Shooting (unpredictability of accuracy, power) on top of shooting stats

- Longpassing (unpredictability of accuracy, power) on top of longpass/cross stats

- Skills (Bad composure going in to the skill leads to slower less effective skill move, failure rate higher, loose the ball more often, risk of "dribbling himself" and loosing control of the ball, etc).

- Trapping (the more uncomposed, the more sloppy a trap will be, and the ball will risk bouncing off the boot or missing the boot entirely the more uncomposed the player is). "Perfect" trapping only really possible when standing still and well-composed, when moving at speed trapping becomes naturally unpredictable because of less composure when running). Obviously if player has great trapping skills composure will affect less and player would be capable of completing a trap in high speeds well in most cases.

- Collisions (bad composure = more likely to fall and also to injure himself).

- Top speed (bad composure means he isn't in full control of his body balance and legs, so less top speed until the composure gauge goes back up (player works himself back into balance)



- The faster a player moves or runs, the more inaccurate or failed an action is likely to be (working on top of the players baseline stat for that action obviously).

- The sooner after an action the player performs another action, the more likely that action has of being poor (shot, dribble, etc). The composure gauge will take some time to work back to maximum possible value after a move since it will take the player some time to regain full balance and control of himself.

- As the player stamina decreases, so does the maximum value for the gauge. So if a player has just finished a long sprint, he will be sloppier due to less balance/composure.

- Good Composure stat, possibly strength stat or such, makes players more likely to keep composure through complex moves or being pressured etc.

- Needs to be separate from Balance stat, since smaller players like Messi needs to have lots of composure, yet they can't outmuscle bigger players (basically avoid the PES balance stat issue it's had so far, where Maradona can not only hold his balance when pressured, but also use his balance stat to outpower bigger players, the balance stat works as a power stat aswell which it shouldn't).

- This composure stat would also be able to be used for determining the likeliness of a player injuries. Basically, the less composure a player has when he is tackled or tripped, the more risk of injury. So if a player is in the middle of a tricky move and is basically off balance, he has less control of his body







"Exponential" depletion

If a player starts loosing composure when doing, when looking at his stats/abilities, difficult moves, he is going to loose composure at a faster and faster rate if he doesn't stop what he is doing and allow himself to regain balance and composure.
So if a player does a move several times, and at the first repetition he looses 1X from the Composure gauge, doing that move again while the gauge is still depleated would make him loose 2X amount from the gauge.

Essentially, the higher the gauge is filled, the less easily a player will loose composure. But once is is unbalanced, he will quickly loose balance and such if he continues to perform difficult tricks, or if he is constantly pushed by a defender.

Visual aid

The gauge would be shown as an indication on screen somehow, since in real life you would be able to spot someone who is stumbling slightly or is struggling to keep balance. It might be good to know more instinctively when to go in for the attack on someone based on what their composure and state of balance is at the moment, since that is a vulnerability you would exploit in real life.




Effect of the Composure stat and Gauge:



- Players would realistically move from one action to another, and any unbalance will affect the following move.

- Only really good players would be able to do repeated tricks with the trick stick. A player with poor composure and technique would possibly loose the ball almost all the time if trying difficult ballfeints at high speeds. And doing for example first a soledrag followed by a Marseille Roulette attempt would be a surefire way to make any defender collapse in a heap as his Composure Gauge drops to 0.

- There would be alot more nuance in the game, and this Composure gauge would be an overlay that influences a players ability to basically perform any move. It would prevent mechanical repetition of tricks. Even if a player has a superb "Technique stat", the effects of a poor trap moments before the trick is performed will greatly affect his ability to execute the trick.



It would need alot of work, they would need a system that analyses how well composed a player is during certain points of animations, and it's really a Euphoria thing if you wanna do it full on.

BUT, the basic concept can be implemented with only basic methods for measuring composure.

Basically, all animations in the game are analysed and judged, with respect to eachother, so that certain moves carry with them a bigger depletion of the Composure Gauge. Basically, if the Gauge reaches 0, the player falls over due to lack of balance. This alone would mean that a player has to be careful when shooting right after a Skill trick, since he is temporarily slightly unbalanced. As it is in FIFA08 and such, they seem to be treated completely separate. The Player does one thing, and once he is finished with the animation, the game drops that completely and moves on to the shot that follows.

Also this puts even more emphasis on players, and their differences.

Poor players simply will not be able to play like they did in FIFA08, since for example their trapping performance would be completely scalable based on their speed when receiving the pass etc. And even if they are in a good position to trap well, their composure system will prevent them from stringing together a perfect trap with a perfect pass or perfect shot. Just having a poor player sprint would severely cripple his ability to do anything well, his accuracy during ballhits would be questionable etc.

Even if they just go the "easy route", and for example gradually reduce the players animation speed when the gauge drops towards 0 (so that when the gauge is very low the player might be operating on 75% of his usual ability when it comes to sprint speed/trickstick animation speed, etc), and the chance of the player stumbling on his own increases when the gauge nears 0), and also reduce the players shot and pass accuracy/consistency severely once they start becoming unbalanced and uncomposed, it would be a great addition.


Once the composure reaches 0, they could add all sorts of fun animations of the player tripping on his own foot and falling on his face, or just falling over like when a human looses balance, or more commonly stumbling and loosing the ball, that would be awesome, even if the animation technology prevents you from seeing the player becoming more and more unbalanced during until loosing balance.
 
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Re: FIFA 09 - Discussion Thread

Trance_Allstar - If a football game was made with every one of your suggestions implemented then it would be a brilliant game, almost perfect, but the problem is that no company would go into that much detail with their football games :( It's just a case of making it look good, bullshit about hundreds of improvements and make a lot of money :((.

I agree about the superhuman ball control in that Alves goal vid, but a positive I see from it is that the goal comes from something that would have been saved on 08, shows an improvement.
 
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Re: FIFA 09 - Discussion Thread

Rob92 said:
Trance_Allstar - If a football game was made with every one of your suggestions implemented then it would be a brilliant game, almost perfect, but the problem is that no company would go into that much detail with their football games :( It's just a case of making it look good, bullshit about hundreds of improvements and make a lot of money :((.

I agree about the superhuman ball control in that Alves goal vid, but a positive I see from it is that the goal comes from something that would have been saved on 08, shows an improvement.
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Yeah, glad the goalkeepers are more sane this year. I hate goalkeepers bouncing around like gigantic bunny-rabbits. :)
 
Re: FIFA 09 - Discussion Thread

It really is a class game lads, I absolutely loved it, the only gripe i had was the response's being the same as the Euro's. and Offline this will be fine but Online it will be pretty similar to 08. :((
 
Re: FIFA 09 - Discussion Thread

Ball looks floaty when a player is chesting or bringing down the ball. Only in those instances though. Passes do seem a bit too perfect and sometimes it looks like a ping ball game. I was excited about this game until I read about the same response times not being sorted, not to mention the nets..:-(

I hope they sort this things out although I highly doubt it.

Another thing that disappointed me after reading Adam's review is that stats have no influence on players as they have in PES games.

Oh well, when the game comes out I will enjoy it for what it's worth.

Thanks for the vids by the way.
 
Re: FIFA 09 - Discussion Thread

Rob92 said:
Trance_Allstar - If a football game was made with every one of your suggestions implemented then it would be a brilliant game, almost perfect, but the problem is that no company would go into that much detail with their football games :( It's just a case of making it look good, bullshit about hundreds of improvements and make a lot of money :((.

I agree about the superhuman ball control in that Alves goal vid, but a positive I see from it is that the goal comes from something that would have been saved on 08, shows an improvement.
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Though, to add, I must say that PES has already had the jist of what I was writing about. They could go overboard if they wanted to, but the basic things aren't really harder to implement, into the current technologies, than the collision system they have now, aswell as tweaking the stats so that they can affect aiming and such alot more. :)
 
Re: FIFA 09 - Discussion Thread

the pass motion looks great but i think the ball still going very accurate to player even with a no look pass,like they got a magnet on their feet. ^^ but way much better than 08. the collision and motion of ronaldo falling is..superb..haha..but ref still stupid. where's the card dude?! :r1
 
Re: FIFA 09 - Discussion Thread

@ Younggun, did you test the different speeds out? I think you said the "normal" speed is set to between 08/euro.

This does really effect the response times. Anyone remember the euro demo and the game. They toned that down quite a bit and it effected the responsetimes aswell. Maybe technically they were the same, but when playing the extra sharpness and responsiveness was lost. The same could happen with putting 09 on euro speed. That would be a better comparison to see the response times, its the same with the slower speed, so its faster with the same speed.
 
Re: FIFA 09 - Discussion Thread

Sorry if this has been covered before, but does anyone know if you can assign stadiums to teams now. I'm an Everton fan and don't want to play all my games in the same stadium (again) - it takes so much away from the game for me. In 08, i ended up playing as Valencia just to have my own 'home' ground!.
 
Re: FIFA 09 - Discussion Thread

Nothing has been mentioned about it, I fear that the answer is no, which is a shame because it's a shockingly simple thing to implement which would solve a lot of the complaints for a lot of the people.
 
Re: FIFA 09 - Discussion Thread

jflores said:
Another thing that disappointed me after reading Adam's review is that stats have no influence on players as they have in PES games.
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Fifa has always been that way. The only difference was the speed and shoot power i think. That is one of the main reasons I've switched to PES about 10 years ago. Along with the exploits ofcourse but that comes first. The player uniqueness was a 'revolution' to me. I'd thought 10 years later Fifa would address it but no. :((

I mean, Cmon EA, you got the presentation right, animations and collision all nice, ball physics superb, all you gotta do is add player uniqueness, fix the responsiveness, get rid of exploits and man we'd have one great game in our hands.
 
Re: FIFA 09 - Discussion Thread

I never saw all this player individuality that people talk about in PES, sure the star players were a little bit different to default players, but so are star players in Fifa. I play only with Sheffield Wednesday's real players and even between them there are certainly differences, Steve Watson doesn't play the same as Akpo Sodje......
 
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