FC Barcelona Thread

jonneymendoza said:
Take that barcelona http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/8889210.stm

Try again next year with 50m or bugger off and try again the following year :LOL:

you guys could have had him now had you offered the right money
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Mate, its just gonna be like what happened to Ronaldo and United when he told us he's staying even though he had secretly agreed a deal behind our backs for the following year. And to be honest with you, even though he got us to another CL final, and another league title, he just wasnt the same player. Ability wise he was just as good but you can tell from his body language that he wanted to be somewhere else. I hope I'm wrong but I can already see Fabregas doing the same. And what's worse for you guys is that (and no offence to Fabregas) Ronaldo is one of those few players in the world that can win you a title almost single handedly, so even at his worst he was able to win games for us during his last season. I doubt Fabregas is good enough to leave you a parting gift like that. So in that sense, why keep him when you can move on sooner rather than later?
 
RuneEdge said:
Mate, its just gonna be like what happened to Ronaldo and United when he told us he's staying even though he had secretly agreed a deal behind our backs for the following year. And to be honest with you, even though he got us to another CL final, and another league title, he just wasnt the same player. Ability wise he was just as good but you can tell from his body language that he wanted to be somewhere else. I hope I'm wrong but I can already see Fabregas doing the same. And what's worse for you guys is that (and no offence to Fabregas) Ronaldo is one of those few players in the world that can win you a title almost single handedly, so even at his worst he was able to win games for us during his last season. I doubt Fabregas is good enough to leave you a parting gift like that. So in that sense, why keep him when you can move on sooner rather than later?
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Because his under contract and no player is above the club. Like i said before, had barcelona offered 50m he would have been a barcelona player now. At the end of the day, fabregas needs to honour his contract or buy it out himself. Its about principles. No one put a gun to fabregas head telling him to sign a 6 year deal.

If he doesnt pull his weight he will just rot in the reverves. that will do wonders for him breaking into that spanish side.
 
Well, Ronaldo isn`t from Madrid neither played there as a youth . As for fab he knows the city even the grounds .The difference is Fergie was talking loud and biting back at RM ,as for Wenger kept his mouth tight lipped . Even though Fergie was funny "I wouldn`t sell them a virus"

Your right Fabregas is nowhere near Ronaldo ,Barca wanted fab this season and they didn`t get him. Whether he leaves next summer remains to be seen I`m sure the barca squad + ball boys will be begging for him again lol
 
beboq said:
Well, Ronaldo isn`t from Madrid neither played there as a youth . As for fab he knows the city even the grounds .
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Well that just backs up my case. Fabregas is clearly more "made for Barca" than Ronaldo was for Madrid. And if Ronaldo can move, there's no chance Fabregas will stay more than a year. Apparently you were only offered a little over £30million and I see you lot asking for £50million. But if you were offered £40million next year, I honestly believe Wenger will take it. There's no way you're gonna keep someone who wants to be elsewhere for more than a season. I mean, if Fabregas shows the same attitude that Ronaldo did in his last season with us, do you really think Wenger will keep him any longer when there's a £40million offer waiting on the table?

I understand the whole "no one is bigger than the club" way of doing things. As a matter of fact, no one gets that message across better than Sir Alex has at United over the years. But you have to be sensible in times like these and think about what the money from his sale can do for you. When we sold Ronaldo, we went from a team that finished 1st to a team finishing 2nd. Without Fabregas, you're still good enough to do as well as you did last season and with the extra money you can potentially finish higher depending on where the money is spent.
I guess its a bit pointless saying this right now cuz you havent had that £40million offer from Barca yet. But the reason I'm saying this is because it'll be a real waste to tell yourself "It's all about principle" and that he has a contract to honour cuz you're better off with the money, even if its below your asking price.
 
Actually the last Barcelona offer was 45 M €. To me that was a right price. I wouldn't pay more for him (I don't care if Madrid and Man City spend money thay don't really have and make prices up, the "right" price for me is that one).

But it's a sterile debate right now. We hope he stays at Arsenal for good and we wish him the best. Next year we will see what happens.
 
drekkard said:
Actually the last Barcelona offer was 45 M €. To me that was a right price.
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I read that you offered €40 million, which works out to about £34 million. So yeah, £40 million (around €45 million) is about the right price IMO too, baring in mind how much Kaka sold for.

But if Barca had offered €45 million like you're saying, IMO Arsenal made a mistake rejecting it. I guess the only thing Arsenal fans can hope for is for Barca to find another midfielder instead and for Fabregas to eventually accept that he's better off at Arsenal. This whole "play one more season like he's doing you a favour" doesnt do anyone any good. We let Ronaldo get away with it because he won us two league titles and the Champion's League almost single handedly.
 
RuneEdge said:
"It's all about principle" and that he has a contract to honour cuz you're better off with the money, even if its below your asking price.
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I really believe this... Wenger was asked at the end of the season, Fab wanted his blessing to leave(true to my mind) Barca thought it was done n dusted they choose the price tag (imo) the elections came about and fab was the trophy (imo) Barca were shocked to be rejected and was more shock that Fab didn`t intervene (imo) which led the city ,dogs,cats n everything under the sun (even to pranks)to put pressure on fab to open a dialogue w/ Wenger . This is what really drove Wenger to his guns we know how he like everything on the hush! hush!

Remember this is the coach who won`t let them eat cake or sweets even if the cake came from The Arsenal (celebration). yes, He like control and if barca were patient and kept trying to send word to Wenger n Arsenal. He would of let a deal go through n explain to the fans . Why it`s a good time to part ways with Fab . And most would follow like sheep (imo) he could of brought in 4 players and add to the debt department. Will fab leave? yeah! but not this season :LOL: :WORSHIP:
 
Some good news: there's a deal with Werder Bremen for Özil, he'll join us if Guardiola gives the ok. Next season we will swap him for Cesc anyway lol.
 
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RuneEdge said:
Well that just backs up my case. Fabregas is clearly more "made for Barca" than Ronaldo was for Madrid. And if Ronaldo can move, there's no chance Fabregas will stay more than a year. Apparently you were only offered a little over £30million and I see you lot asking for £50million. But if you were offered £40million next year, I honestly believe Wenger will take it. There's no way you're gonna keep someone who wants to be elsewhere for more than a season. I mean, if Fabregas shows the same attitude that Ronaldo did in his last season with us, do you really think Wenger will keep him any longer when there's a £40million offer waiting on the table?

I understand the whole "no one is bigger than the club" way of doing things. As a matter of fact, no one gets that message across better than Sir Alex has at United over the years. But you have to be sensible in times like these and think about what the money from his sale can do for you. When we sold Ronaldo, we went from a team that finished 1st to a team finishing 2nd. Without Fabregas, you're still good enough to do as well as you did last season and with the extra money you can potentially finish higher depending on where the money is spent.
I guess its a bit pointless saying this right now cuz you havent had that £40million offer from Barca yet. But the reason I'm saying this is because it'll be a real waste to tell yourself "It's all about principle" and that he has a contract to honour cuz you're better off with the money, even if its below your asking price.
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Lets see how Fab plays this season. I think Fab will play just as well as previous seasons. I think Everybody knows he will go next season, but it just wasn't the right season for him to leave. Keeping him for this extra season gives Wenger extra time to look for a great replacement (whether at the club or not).

But I think Fab will play well this season, as I think he will try harder than ever to win something before he leaves. So it is unlike the Ronaldo situation in alot of ways.

If Barca offered 45million euros I think we would have accepted it if everything was done correctly. But Barcelonas arrogance did so much harm to the situation overall that it just wasn't going to happen in the end.

I hope next season it gets sorted and Barcelona and their players give the whole situation the respect it deserves(not saying things like this :ROLL: http://www.goal.com/en-india/news/2...2062478/xavi-arsenal-are-just-not-competetive), so it can be wrapped up as soon as possible.
 
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BobbyBox said:
Lets see how Fab plays this season. I think Fab will play just as well as previous seasons. I think Everybody knows he will go next season, but it just wasn't the right season for him to leave. Keeping him for this extra season gives Wenger extra time to look for a great replacement (whether at the club or not).

But I think Fab will play well this season, as I think he will try harder than ever to win something before he leaves. So it is unlike the Ronaldo situation in alot of ways.

If Barca offered 45million euros I think we would have accepted it if everything was done correctly. But Barcelonas arrogance did so much harm to the situation overall that it just wasn't going to happen in the end.

I hope next season it gets sorted and Barcelona and their players give the whole situation the respect it deserves(not saying things like this :ROLL: http://www.goal.com/en-india/news/2...2062478/xavi-arsenal-are-just-not-competetive), so it can be wrapped up as soon as possible.
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1 hour to go to the airport to start my holidays, but I couldn't let this one go through! I haven't seen this words by Xavi in any spanish newspaper nor in any other press website. As it happened with Puyol some days back, it seems the press is simply creating lies again and again. I very much doubt Xavi would say something like this, and you can tell this is -again- a case of simple lies (it has happened a lot in the last weeks).

I think a big part of the "arrogance" feeling effectively due to some things that were said months ago by the former president (who deliberately tried to make things complicated in what is a long story to tell now) and the behaviour of one or two players.

But in the last 2 or 3 weeks I've only seen respectful declarations by everybody while in the Sun and other crappy journalism suddenly appear lies. Puyol already put a legal suit to the Sun for that. I fear that none of the "respectful" declarations arrived to any arsenal fan, and it saddens me.
 
Well, I think Pep n Wenger did fairly well during the summer the kept their cool. And to me that matters the most. I think the media wants barca n Arsenal to be at war...it sells ( it got me wowed up :LOL:). They are known for their style of play (Barca n Arsenal)and now, it`s all gone wrong lol . It will be all forgiven soon as the season starts ,but if we face each other again in the CL it will start right up.
 
Lets see how Fab plays this season. I think Fab will play just as well as previous seasons. I think Everybody knows he will go next season, but it jus
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1 hour to go to the airport to start my holidays, but I couldn't let this one go through! I haven't seen this words by Xavi in any spanish newspaper nor in any other press website. As it happened with Puyol some days back, it seems the press is simply creating lies again and again. I very much doubt Xavi would say something like this, and you can tell this is -again- a case of simple lies (it has happened a lot in the last weeks).



I think a big part of the "arrogance" feeling effectively due to some things that were said months ago by the former president (who deliberately tried to make things complicated in what is a long story to tell now) and the behaviour of one or two players.



But in the last 2 or 3 weeks I've only seen respectful declarations by everybody while in the Sun and other crappy journalism suddenly appear lies. Puyol already put a legal suit to the Sun for that. I fear that none of the "respectful" declarations arrived to any arsenal fan, and it saddens me.
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I agree the media didn't help but you'd cannot say barcelona are completely innocent though.certain players have come out too say stuff like they will get him easily and your former president didn't help.

The respect arsenal fans had with barcelona is wearing thin.and you can't blame us.



Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
 
I'm convinced that Fabregas will play a super season.
About Özil, ive read on the Guardian's website that Man Utd want to buy him, are you guys sure he will go to Barcelona?
 
That guardian story is a couple of days old now and its all conjecture anyway. Barca have apparently had a bid of £8m accepted, Ozil has agreed a 4 yr deal but Guardiola does not want to stunt the growth of the young players at barca, especially Pedro who would be most at risk.

That may not be true either as there has been no statement from either club. We'll have to wait and see. I think SAF probably feels the same way as Pep but we're probably interested, i'm pretty sure Fergie met with either Bremen officials or Ozil's reps on saturday.
 
Jesus 8mil are you sure? What`s wrong with that price tag.... his dream is barca so I guess barca can choose the price tag lol
 
drekkard said:
1 hour to go to the airport to start my holidays, but I couldn't let this one go through! I haven't seen this words by Xavi in any spanish newspaper nor in any other press website. As it happened with Puyol some days back, it seems the press is simply creating lies again and again. I very much doubt Xavi would say something like this, and you can tell this is -again- a case of simple lies (it has happened a lot in the last weeks).

I think a big part of the "arrogance" feeling effectively due to some things that were said months ago by the former president (who deliberately tried to make things complicated in what is a long story to tell now) and the behaviour of one or two players.

But in the last 2 or 3 weeks I've only seen respectful declarations by everybody while in the Sun and other crappy journalism suddenly appear lies. Puyol already put a legal suit to the Sun for that. I fear that none of the "respectful" declarations arrived to any arsenal fan, and it saddens me.
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Even if you ignore that one from Xavi and the thing from Puyol (because they were not said and made up). there are still alot of other true qoutes from Xavi and the shirt 'prank' from Puyol and the things from your previous president and a couple of other players. (I think your current president said a few things aswell, but I can't be bothered to look for them at the moment)

So it doesn't matter when it was said, it all shows arrogance. They thought without doubt they were going to get 'their man' and didn't care about the proper way to do things. It has backfired on them. They didn't get their man :))

the 'respectful' declarations are not that respectful, they just say what they should have said a couple of months ago, but too much has passed since then. They only started saying better things when they knew that he definately wasn't going.

Anyway, lets all concentrate on our new seasons :))
 
oh come on bobby, i can understand this sort of reaction from some "other arsenal fans", but u're smarter than that!
this is business. it's a deal. it has nothing to do with respect. absolutely nothing. what did u expect from barca? not to exploit the barca-fabreagas tie as a leverage? to just come out and offer exactly the amount of money U wanted to get? that's just ridiculous. that's not how it works.
this was a negotiation between a club who had to get a specific player for "politic reasons" (fabregas was meant to be rosel's trojan horse) and a club (arsenal) which had absolutely no urge to sell.
So what would ANYBODY do in this case? use every possible expedient to get some leverage. it's got absolutely nothing to do with "respect", "fair play" or "arrogance". it's all about bargaining power.

talking about "respect" or "arrogance" in a negotiation is extremely naive. a negotiation is a battle, and both parties will do whatever it's in their power to get the better terms. the only threshold, the only restrictions are the ones established by law. as long as u don't break any law, u will always do whatever u can to get the upper hand, no matter how unethical and unrespectful that is.

and as a matter of fact, over the last 8 years, arsenal has done much much worse than what barca did in this negotiation.
do u know that since 2008, arsenal scouts are not allowed to get inside palermo's training facilities (along with man utd scouts, man city scouts,chelsea's scouts)? Palermo's chairman banned arsenal's, chelsea's, man utd's, aston villa's and chelsea's scouts from our youth team training camp and stadium. and so did reggina's owner, parma's owner, roma's owner, sampdoria's owner and lazio's owner.
arsenal's scouts have the "very nice habit" of sneaking inside italian clubs' youth team training facilities and stadia, to take note of the most promising youngsters. then they get in contact with their parents and make them an offer, bypassing the club.

here in italy under 18 youngsters are not allowed to sign a professional contract, so english clubs (and arsenal is one of the most active club in this department) take advantage of this situation to get those youngsters for free.
our clubs spend millions every year in their youth team programs. they provide this kids an education (coz when their families can't afford it, the clubs pay for their instruction), they turn them into football players, they teach them how to play football for about 10 years (the program is for children from 8 to 18 years old), they invest on them A LOT of money........
..... and then, once they blossom, once the club's investment begins to produce his results, an arsenal scout (also other english clubs do it, but it's arsenal we're talking about here) pops out and finds an agreement with the kid's parents (the parents, as much as the scout, obviously don't care about all the effort the club made for the kid) and grabs the talent WE produced.
that's how u got lupoli, that's how u got mannone (luckily for their clubs, both of them didn't really turn out to be great players).... that's what u tried to do to get balotelli from inter, giovinco from juve and terranova from palermo.

is this fair? is this respectful? hell no! that's sick. yet no one blames arsenal or man utd or man city or chelsea for this (we blame FIFA for not addressing this issue with a specific rule).
unfortunately, the fact that we can't have our youngsters signing a professional contract until they're 18, creates an opening for british clubs...... and obviously british clubs take advantage of it. they're allowed to do it, so they keep doing it, no matter how disrespectul this policy is.
because that's what negotiations are about. use whatever tactic u're allowed to use, in order to get what u want at the lowest price possible. and there's nothing wrong with that.

i didn't even bother joining "the fabregas conversation" that occurred in the arsenal thread over the last few weeks, coz, honestly, the whole discussion about fabregas "proper value" and barcelona's tactics was pretty childish, shortsighted, naive and stupid....... but like i said earlier, i think u're too smart "to join that party" :))
 
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Oh Dear! as soon as the emotions settle down... there always someone to try to rekindle the flames. The season starts and fab is staying... everyone express their views whether it`s ignorant or not I rather opinions are exchanged in a civil matter, but that`s me :))
 
beboq said:
Oh Dear! as soon as the emotions settle down... there always someone to try to rekindle the flames. The season starts and fab is staying... everyone express their views whether it`s ignorant or not I rather opinions are exchanged in a civil matter, but that`s me :))
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bebo, i'm not trying to rekindle any flames (being a palermo fan, i'm completely neutral in this situation), and certainly i would never call anybody an ignorant, just coz they don't share my views (on the contrary, i actually remarked how i consider bobby a clever guy).
and even if i would consider someone an ignorant, i certainly wouldn't call him like that on a forum.... i'd rather not join the conversation (wich is why i didn't join the fabregas conversation on the arsenal thread).

i just remarked how unappropriate is to talk about arrogance in a negotiation. making a low offer or trying to exploit other expedients to get the better terms in a deal, isn't arrogant. it's normal. it's what everyone does (arsenal included). :))

jumbo, when i talked about the young players snatched from arsenal, i didn't mention fabregas coz, to be honest, i don't know if that's how they got him. i can assume that was the case, but since i don't know it for sure (as i do for the other players mentioned), i can't say they definitely got fabregas that way.
besides the fabregas situation is kinda different. barcelona isn't a smaller team. barca has (at the very least) the same appeal arsenal has, and could have offered the same kinda money arsenal offered (although i don't know if in spain there's the same "under 18 restriction" we have in italy). in the end, in fabregas' case, i think we can say both clubs (barca and arsenal) had a huge impact on the players growth, so it's "kinda" fair.... although is quite hilarious to think barca now is supposed to pay a huge load of millions to get a player that was snatched from them years ago.......
... but that would be hilarious only assuming fabregas was actually snatched by arsenal that way, wich is something i don't know, like i said before. i just know that's how they got lupoli and that's how they tried to get terranova, giovinco and balotelli, so i'll just stick to them.
but that's just what i know and, of course, u might well know something i don't about the fagregas' aquisition from arsenal.

anyhow that's not even my point. i didn't mean to attack arsenal for his very questionable ethics. i just wanted to say that talking about respect in a negotiation makes absolutely no sense... especially in this case.
 
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Ben, i mixed in that discussion in the Arsenal thread.
I respect Bobby very much,btidon't really see what was unfair or disrespectfull by Barcelona. Like you say it's just negotiations.
But i think all this is cultural.
Italians, Spaniards or even Belgians tend to be fanatic about their favourite clubs, but all this is rather weak compared to the way English fans live and breathe for their clubs. Loyalty is extremely important for them. They refuse to see the economic and commercial side that nowadays are the most important aspects of football. In a sense they are quite romantic about it.
Of course it is pretty easy to ignore this economic/commercial side of the game when English clubs are the "richest" (in reality clubs Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool and even Man City are poor because they have huge debts) or rather are spending the biggest amount of money and paying the highest wages.

Well, like drekkard already said: i hope Cesc can play a fantastic season and bring Arsenal some silverware.
 
Lo Zio, I have had this argument over and over and over.

But why can't I be pissed off with Barcelona? I can be and I am. The way they have acted is Arrogant and disrespectful, doesn't matter if other teams do it and even if we do it. It doesn't matter if that is the way the world works etc. I am still pissed off with Barcelona.

So anyboy who thinks that what Barcelona did is disrespectful or arrogant and just not very nice, is correct. They are not naive or stupid to think that, because that is how Barcelona acted (again it doesn't matter if that is life etc).

My explanation of why I think they are arrogant.

If a team wants a player, they usually go through the right channels and try to keep on good terms with the other club and not piss them off (especially if the other club is in the 'driving seat'). Arsenal were very much in the driving seat Fab still has 4years on his contract and is our best player and captain. Barcelona just did what they pleased and said whatever they wanted and thought that they would still get Fab because of who they are. That is arrogance.

My explanation of them being disrespectful.

right at the beginning of all of this they said that whatever happens they have to 'Respect' Arsenal, so if Arsenal do not want to sell etc then barcelona will leave them alone. They did the complete opposite and went against what they said. That is being disrespectful.

So I can say they were definately both arrogant and disrespectful. Just because other teams do it (and Arsenal in terms of getting youngsters etc), doesn't mean I can't still be pissed off with them.

It might make Arsenal a Hypocrite or me for that matter, but everyone is a hypocrite anyway :))

So I am very aware what clubs will do to get a player, but it still doesn't make what Barcelona did was right and it doesn't mean Arsenal and their fans can't be annoyed at Barcelona and their tactics.
 
I understand Ben even though you are highly respected your view is always welcomed and encourage even though it`s 2 weeks behind us. Jumbo made a suggestion about how Fab was bought which only stirs the pot it`s been 7 years since he left n extended his contract again n again . In my mind the Cesc Fabregas thing is behind us we face pool on Sunday.
 
thanks for the kind words, bebo :))
bobbybox said:
But why can't I be pissed off with Barcelona? I can be and I am.
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of course u can, bobby. who am i to say what u can or cannot say or what should u feel! :))
besides i can certainly understand your point of view and sympathize with your "arsenal fan" point of view.

but u see, one thing is saying "hey, i don't care about anything. this is our captain we're talking about, our most valuable asset, and i have all the rights to be pissed off at barcelona's approach, no matter what"...... a very different thing is to say that barcelona was "arrogant".
coz when u're saying that, u're implying some sort of an objective assessment, while, from a true neutral and objective point of view, barcelona wasn't arrogant at all.

because, by definition, there's no such thing as arrogance in a negotiation. arrogance means "bullying someone", taking something away from someone against his will. and this just doesn't apply to this situation, coz no matter how many expedients barca might try to get the player, arsenal will always have the power to just hold the player until the contract expires.

negotiate and respect just don't belong to the same sentence. if u have a negotiation, that means u have the power to sell (or not sell) the player. as long as a player is under contract, respect has to stay out of the equation.

for instance, palermo would need arsenal's respect in order to keep his under 18 talents.... coz we can't tie them with a contract, so u might just come and get em.... our only defense is to phisically kick arsenal's scouts out of our stadia and training facilities :P (that's just an example of course).

but once a player is bound by a contract, u don't need any respect at all. u don't like the terms? just refuse the offer or make a counter offer. u shouldn't call someone arrogant just coz he doesn't agrees with your subjective economic valutation of a player.

last summer arsenal was competing with palermo for hernandez. luckily we managed to sign him first. one year after (this summer) arsenal came here and made an offer for him, an offer we refused. would u say arsenal was arrogant for offering a low bid? hell no! they were just trying to make their own interests.
so arsenal talked to hernandez' agent to see if there was a chance to put the player against the club and get the player by forcing palermo's hands..... they tried and failed. would u call this arrogance? imo it isn't. sure it isn't "fair" or "ethic".... but then again, ethics have nothing to do with business. a negotiation is all about trying to reach an agreement that favours u (not trying to show your respect or your "bon ton"). u see an opening, u take your chances. that's it.
and if trying to force the club or the player (by putting him a shirt or by remarking his bond to your club) can help u, u do it. and that's not disrespectful or unfair. it would be unfair if barca could just get fabregas at their conditions despite arsenal's will..... but that's never gonna happen as cesc still has 3 years on his contract.

again mate, u obviously can be pissed at barca, u can call them arrogants or bastards or whatever pleases u. i just think u're smart enough too see this whole thing from an objective point of view :)) . infact the only reason why i did even bother writing theese posts is because i have an high appreciation of u (at least that's from reading your usual posts)
but if u don't want to see it from a neutral point of view (wich is what u implied when u said "doesn't matter if other teams do it and even if we do it" ), then it's ok. i certainly won't call u an hypocrite for that..... i guess the most appropriate label in theese case is "fan"....... maybe "very, very passionate fan" :P

oh and btw mate....
bobbybox said:
If a team wants a player, they usually go through the right channels and try to keep on good terms with the other club and not piss them off (
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that (almost) NEVER HAPPENS, as the hernandez situation between palermo and arsenal (that occurred just a few weeks ago) proved.
and i'm not trying to make a "hey what u wanna do, that's how life goes" point. this is exactly what is supposed to happen! a negotiation is a battle between parties which have opposing wills. it implies (by definition) fighting, compromising and recurring to dirty tricks. and that's not unfair or arrogant. that's just how it has to be. :))
 
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lo zio said:
thanks for the kind words, bebo :))

of course u can, bobby. who am i to say what u can or cannot say or what should u feel! :))
besides i can certainly understand your point of view and sympathize with your position (as an arsenal fan).

but u see, one thing is saying "hey, i don't care about anything. this is our captain we're talking about, our most valuable asset, and i have all the rights to be pissed off at barcelona's approach, no matter what"...... a very different thing is to say that barcelona was "arrogant".
coz when u're saying that, u're implying some sort of an objective assessment, while, from a true neutral and objective point of view, barcelona wasn't arrogant at all.

because, by definition, there's no such thing as arrogance in a negotiation. arrogance means "bullying someone", taking something away from someone against his will. and this just doesn't apply to this situation, coz no matter how many expedients barca might try to get the player, arsenal will always have the power to just hold the player until the contract expires.

negotiate and respect just don't belong to the same sentence. if u have a negotiation, that means u have the power to sell (or not sell) the player. as long as a player is under contract, respect has to stay out of the equation.

for instance, palermo would need arsenal's respect in order to keep his under 18 talents.... coz we can't tie them with a contract, so u might just come and get em.... our only defense is to phisically kick arsenal's scouts out of our stadia and training facilities :P (that's just an example of course).

but once a player is bound by a contract, u don't need any respect at all. u don't like the terms? just refuse the offer or make a counter offer. u shouldn't call someone arrogant just coz he doesn't agrees with your subjective economic valutation of a player.

last summer arsenal was competing with palermo for hernandez. luckily we managed to sign him first. one year after (this summer) arsenal came here and made an offer for him, an offer we refused. would u say arsenal was arrogant for offering a low bid? hell no! they were just trying to make their own interests.
so arsenal talked to hernandez' agent to see if there was a chance to put the player against the club and get the player by forcing palermo's hands..... they tried and failed. would u call this arrogance? imo it isn't. sure it isn't "fair" or "ethic".... but then again, ethics have nothing to do with business. a negotiation is all about trying to reach an agreement that favours u (not trying to show your respect or your "bon ton"). u see an opening, u take your chances. that's it.
and if trying to force the club or the player (by putting him a shirt or by remarking his bond to your club) can help u, u do it. and that's not disrespectful or unfair. it would be unfair if barca could just get fabregas at their conditions despite arsenal's will..... but that's never gonna happen as cesc still has 3 years on his contract.

again mate, u obviously can be pissed at barca, u can call them arrogants or bastards or whatever pleases u. i just think u're smart enough too see this whole thing from an objective point of view :)) . infact the only reason why i did even bother writing theese posts is because i have an high appreciation of u (at least that's from reading your usual posts)
but if u don't want to see it from a neutral point of view (wich is what u implied when u said "doesn't matter if other teams do it and even if we do it" ), then it's ok. i certainly won't call u an hypocrite for that..... i guess the most appropriate label in theese case is "fan"....... maybe "very, very passionate fan" :P

oh and btw mate....

that (almost) NEVER HAPPENS, as the hernandez situation between palermo and arsenal (that occurred just a few weeks ago) proved.
and i'm not trying to make a "hey what u wanna do, that's how life goes" point. this is exactly what is supposed to happen! a negotiation is a battle between parties which have opposing wills. it implies (by definition) fighting, compromising and recurring to dirty tricks. and that's not unfair or arrogant. that's just how it has to be. :))
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I think we will have to agree to disagree :))

I don't think they were arrogant or disrespectful for putting in low offers at all. If they just kept putting in offers then that is fine. They could have offered one pound and then we could have rejected it and so on.

It was everything else apart from the offers that was arrogant and disrespectful. Anyway I think our definitions of 'Arrogance' are differing :))

I really respect your views and you are definately more knowledgable about all things football than me. But there is no convincing me that Barca were not arrogant/disrespectful in what they did :))

I just hope he has a really outstanding season and we can win something with Fab and he can go to Barcelona and we are all happy :))
 
Jumbo_ said:
Sorry I didnt mean to fan the flames etc etc. It is relevant though.
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here ya go jumbo from the old Arsenal Thread

old ARSENAL Thread said:
Barcelona vice-president Sandro Rosell has admitted the club is furious to have lost star youngster Cesc Fabregas to Arsenal.
The 16 year-old signed a six-year contract with the Gunners this week and joins the London giants as an amateur.

22 August 03, 01:02
"We are very disappointed that our midfielder Cesc has signed for Arsenal for six years," said Rosell.

"We believed he had great potential at Barcelona."
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this comment didn`t even get a response back then ...
 
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