Evoweb Gameplay Lab, FIFA 20 (Frostbite FIFAs?)

I’m working on a little update as I’ve noticed this annoying aspect to the game, and now that I’ve seen it I can’t unsee it! It’s in the default game too, where if you run say towards the screen and then suddenly turn you can burst by a defender too easily. They just stay passive when they jockey or contain or something. It doesn’t happen every time and in the mod it’s not as bad as default due to the defenders awareness and tackling, but it still happens too often and it’s not a good thing!

I’ve tried so, so many different things to stop it and I haven’t got rid of it yet! I have improved it with AI tackling and as a result I’ve also managed to get way more fouls in general, so that’s a big positive. I was getting around 6,7 a half today. If anyone has noticed this problem or has any ideas how to fix this bursting let me know!

Another result of looking at this problem, I’ve started to look at the general movement of players and I’ve been working on slowing down the overall movement of players a little, turning speeds, etc to make them more realistic. So again, positive result with that but still not a complete fix for the bursting problem. Once I find a solution I’ll release the update with more fouls and more realistic movement.

Update: I think some of the lines in my locale.ini weren't helping at all. I think I added them ages ago and forgot about them. Improvement for sure since they're gone - not gone completely yet, but progress at least!
 
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First of all, thanks to all of you for your amazing works/researches and even for sharing your knowledge. The greatest FIFA Thread this year...

Here some nice gameplay test with SIM 2.0 and Custom Squads. I really love this SIM 2.0...:APPLAUD:


Custom Squads:
Squads_v4.JPG

Looking forward to testing that Update!

PD: I hope to have in FIFA 21 a similar "Thread Lab" for Graphics (turfs, LUT, goalnets, meshing, texturing, etc). Sharing is the key...
 
6ons1 said:
First of all, thanks to all of you for your amazing works/researches and even for sharing your knowledge. The greatest FIFA Thread this year...

Here some nice gameplay test with SIM 2.0 and Custom Squads. I really love this SIM 2.0...:APPLAUD:


Custom Squads:
View attachment 55291

Looking forward to testing that Update!

PD: I hope to have in FIFA 21 a similar "Thread Lab" for Graphics (turfs, LUT, goalnets, meshing, texturing, etc). Sharing is the key...
Click to expand...
What does these "Custom Squads" mean ?
 
papinho81 said:
No one to try it?

The single value change is the following:

- gp_actor_movement_runtime
- ATTR_WalkSpeed: Default value=0.1, mod value=0.18

Why 0.18? Because the equivalent variable when on the ball, ATTR_DribbleWalkSpeed has a default value=0.2.
All the other Dribble_Speed_variables are set lower than their Speed_variables counter parts. The idea was to make the value closer to the dribble one but to keep the EA design of having it still smaller.
Why I think it fight against the defensive passivity? Because AI players when jockeying (not sprint jockeying) or when in "passive mode", they are walking. If the walking speed is set much lower than any other movement speed value you have speed gaps all over the pitch and defenders that can't cope with the players they are marking most of the time.

I could be completely wrong :P, but the game I played with it had low shots numbers (10 or bellow) even using default sliders (WC, 10 min half).
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I'm going all the way back here Pap!:D Are you still using this or have you found a different value/combination which works best?? I think this may help the issue I'm having with the defenders just being passive when they're run at on an angle. I'm running out of ideas - nothing fixes it!!!!
 
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Anth James said:
I'm going all the way back here Pap!:D Are you still using this or have you found a different value/combination which works best?? I think this may help the issue I'm having with the defenders just being passive when they're run at on an angle. I'm running out of ideas - nothing fixes it!!!!
Click to expand...

It probably can help. I wanted to suggest it to you but I have zero time this days and I also thought this one was buried by everyone. The spot must be between 0.15 and 0.18. Keep in mind it can speed up the game a bit.
 
Here's an example of what I'm talking about. I've looked at pretty much everything I can think of, I've looked at tackling, defending, chase velocity, chase angle,jokey, differences in speed, turning, reducing the gap in acceleration, aggressiveness, slider differences, marking and much more - I can't find a solution:RANT:. I'm sure it's in there which is what annoys me more! It doesn't happen all the time, and the way I've got defenders tackling now they generally do follow and can foul etc, but it just shouldn't happen where you can run by a team. I fired up FIFA 16 to compare and the defenders simply just run with you, they don't let you get that second in front by watching you and not making a tackle. I hope this is gone for 21....

 
Anth James said:
Here's an example of what I'm talking about. I've looked at pretty much everything I can think of, I've looked at tackling, defending, chase velocity, chase angle,jokey, differences in speed, turning, reducing the gap in acceleration, aggressiveness, slider differences, marking and much more - I can't find a solution:RANT:. I'm sure it's in there which is what annoys me more! It doesn't happen all the time, and the way I've got defenders tackling now they generally do follow and can foul etc, but it just shouldn't happen where you can run by a team. I fired up FIFA 16 to compare and the defenders simply just run with you, they don't let you get that second in front by watching you and not making a tackle. I hope this is gone for 21....

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For some reason this is related to player speed/acceleration. If you play on slow, this happens every time you sprint down the wings. If you mod player speed to be slower, this might happen more often as well.

I think that slowing down the ball handler (dribble walk and dribble jog speed lower than regular walk and dribble speed) could do the trick. But there are specific values for CPUAI Marker Reaction that should most likely have an immediate impact
 
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Nickuuss said:
What does these "Custom Squads" mean ?
Click to expand...

He edits Player Values in the database to achieve the desired results. It is a shortcut or a workaround compared to actually modding the values using Frosty Editor. Example: instead of changing single Player Speed in frosty from 1 to 0.5 (just random numbers), he changes every player speed in the database to be 50% of what they are. Messi from 90 to 45, for example.
 
Rafter84 said:
For some reason this is related to player speed/acceleration. If you play on slow, this happens every time you sprint down the wings. If you mod player speed to be slower, this might happen more often as well.

I think that slowing down the ball handler (dribble walk and dribble jog speed lower than regular walk and dribble speed) could do the trick. But there are specific values for CPUAI Marker Reaction that should most likely have an immediate impact
Click to expand...
Thanks man, giving the first suggestion a try and results seem good so far! I didn't know that about slow speed and didn't think to try lowering dribble walk and dribble jog slower than regular walk, regular jog. I've tried CPUAI Marker Reaction quite extensively yesterday and that hasn't done the trick at this point but I'll look at it again... but this seems to be quite good so far. Will be a HUGE help if it stays solid!

Edit: It's still there ARGH! But it did help in part I think. If you're at a stand still type it seems to help but if you're even a couple of steps in it switches to your sprint speed and it happens again. I'm trying now to combine it with a drastically reduced dribble sprint acceleration. Backing it off a touch does nothing at all - but heavy helps. Fingers crossed.

Edit 2: Nope. Back to the drawing board, but I think this might form part of the solution because it does help I think. Why is their no 'dribble sprint speed'! There is dribblewalk and dribblejog. Touch slowdown speed doesn't seem to have enough of an impact, either does the sprint acceleration table.
 
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Just for testing purposes, try to use sliders. Give cpu 2-3 more than you when it comes to acceleration or speed. If it fixes the issue, then you know what helps and you only have to find a way to implement that in frosty...

Also, I have noticed that slowing down players too much "breaks" the gameplay, meaning that you will see dumb behaviors all around. Which confirms once again that the game is made (and tested, I guess) on high speeds. This is the reason why I play normal speed and try to slow stuff there. Slowing the general speed down on Frosty is very sensititve. Slow down too much and you will have passive players and awful running animations.

So I think it's really a matter of finding the slowest values that still work.
 
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6ons1 said:
Here some nice gameplay test with SIM 2.0 and Custom Squads. I really love this SIM 2.0...:APPLAUD:
Click to expand...

By the way, this looks and feels great. Vast improvement from default gameplay and graphics. I still see too much skating, but that's really the only "defect" I can spot...

If we can edit FIFA 21 as we are doing with 20, things look REALLY promising. And I agree on the opportunity to create a similar thread on cameras/turfs/lighting etc...
 
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Rafter84 said:
Just for testing purposes, try to use sliders. Give cpu 2-3 more than you when it comes to acceleration or speed. If it fixes the issue, then you know what helps and you only have to find a way to implement that in frosty...

Also, I have noticed that slowing down players too much "breaks" the gameplay, meaning that you will see dumb behaviors all around. Which confirms once again that the game is made (and tested, I guess) on high speeds. This is the reason why I play normal speed and try to slow stuff there. Slowing the general speed down on Frosty is very sensititve. Slow down too much and you will have passive players and awful running animations.

So I think it's really a matter of finding the slowest values that still work.
Click to expand...
I agree definitely with this, FIFA doesn't seem to play well when slowed and things break...but I'm going to have a go at it haha. I'm hoping if the right things are balanced it might be possible. I’m making decent progress I think. The challenge is not to make it feel super sluggish, just balanced. A big thing I seem to have got working today is fouls and chasing seems good without the need for lots of acceleration. Ordinarily that jogging animation can kick in on low acceleration levels as Matt has always said. In regards to the issue if bursting, I still can’t quite figure it out, I keep changing my mind between thinking it’s a speed/acceleration problem or the defender just not putting himself in the right position/jockey when he should be sprinting. I’ve decided whilst the speed/acceleration can help the issue, the core of the problem is the defender.
 
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Do you guys remember how long it took for Frosty Editor to be available for FIFA 20? Is it fairly instant or is it months?
 
Anth James said:
In regards to the issue if bursting, I still can’t quite figure it out, I keep changing my mind between thinking it’s a speed/acceleration problem or the defender just not putting himself in the right position/jockey when he should be sprinting. I’ve decided whilst the speed/acceleration can help the issue, the core of the problem is the defender.
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That's true. The issue is that the defender "points" towards the wrong spot, that is, where the attacker IS, instead of where the attacker WIlL BE.

With the right acceleration/speed advantage, he makes up for the lost time. But the issue is definitely there, it has always been.

To the point where I couldn't play SLOW speed, and had to lower Defense Heigth to avoid seeing wingers sprinting down all the time.
 
Rafter84 said:
That's true. The issue is that the defender "points" towards the wrong spot, that is, where the attacker IS, instead of where the attacker WIlL BE
Click to expand...
100%. Have you done any tests on the cpu prediction points? I wonder if this could be related at all.

...or possibly tackle angle at 1 or something very low. I think it’s set to 45 by default. I might try that next time.
 
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Anth James said:
100%. Have you done any tests on the cpu prediction points? I wonder if this could be related at all.

...or possibly tackle angle at 1 or something very low. I think it’s set to 45 by default. I might try that next time.
Click to expand...

I haven't, because honestly, I'm not seeing that issue that much with my current settings.

I have lowered acceleration values, marking distance and raised push-pull and aggression values. So the attacker does not get away that easy, the defender is closer anyway, and will try to push/tackle
 
Rafter84 said:
I haven't, because honestly, I'm not seeing that issue that much with my current settings.

I have lowered acceleration values, marking distance and raised push-pull and aggression values. So the attacker does not get away that easy, the defender is closer anyway, and will try to push/tackle
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Yeah I’ve done similar with push-pull and it’s definitely helped them not get away as easily and helps a lot with fouls. I just wish we could fix the core issue!

I’ve found unless they acceleration and speed discrepancy is huge then I can still do it. I always use the OS recommendations so there’s already a difference too. I’d rather avoid a bigger difference if I can help it as it can bring some other issues.
 
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Anth James said:
I'm going all the way back here Pap!:D Are you still using this or have you found a different value/combination which works best?? I think this may help the issue I'm having with the defenders just being passive when they're run at on an angle. I'm running out of ideas - nothing fixes it!!!!
Click to expand...

I have one for you defensiveLinePosWeightMappingTable in the defensive baseline file. Set all the Y to 1000 and you will have really hard time taking players on one on one using only pace. They are way more sticking to your ankles.
It also impact the gap between the D and the M line which has many repercussions on the gameplay and of course not only positive ones. The main neg is teams tend to play more similarly, favouring way more possession based type of play, even the lower sides. I think it is nice to see less forward forward play but the completion rate (without altering pass error) is really high. Definitely really hard to break defence though I am the lower scoring team my test cm with newcastle.
 
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papinho81 said:
I have one for you defensiveLinePosWeightMappingTable in the defensive baseline file. Set all the Y to 1000 and you will have really hard time taking players on one on one using only pace. They are way more sticking to your ankles.
It also impact the gap between the D and the M line which has many repercussions on the gameplay and of course not only positive ones. The main neg is teams tend to play more similarly, favouring way more possession based type of play, even the lower sides. I think it is nice to see less forward forward play but the completion rate (without altering pass error) is really high. Definitely really hard to break defence though I am the lower scoring team my test cm with newcastle.
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Thanks Pap. Gave it a go, still seemed to be able to do it, but I didn't mind the additional movement of the teams with it on! I've been trying everything I can think of TWICE to try and get rid of it haha. I think I may have a decent fix, not perfect but seems to be possible much less and doesn't happen against all teams or players. I played Chelsea before and I only managed to do it once the whole game. Every other time they tracked me properly. Then I played Marseille and I could do it a little more, but a general improvement definitely. I think it' a combination of things involved to reduce it, including dribble min touch time, dribble speed at angle plus some of the defence files like block/intercept. As @Rafter84 and I were saying yesterday too, if you are able to get by the defender other fixes like push/pull, chase velocity have helped make it much more difficult to get away (and helps a lot with fouls. I was fouled 9 times in the Chelsea game).

In general, I've been working on trying to slow down dribble turning/change of direction, skill moves at a lightning pace; just the overall movement of the players on the ball without making the game feel sluggish or creating additional bugs. I've found to really get a 'normal' paced turning speed when dribbling, I've had to up it from 1 to about 11. Values in this area I've really had to go aggressive with the changes to see it slow down properly. I've tried to not to touch acceleration or speeds in general as I want to keep the smooth feeling, just slow the movements. I'm still testing to see if it's creating bugs but so far it feels quite good to me.
 
Rafter84 said:
Any chance for an updated version with more lines?
Click to expand...

I am not sure I have added a single variable since the last update, I will check.

The time I have for gaming and testing is close to zero this days.

I had a small testing session yesterday though and I tried to adjust the d line height using the modifier. But I am still not sure if I should increase or decrease the value to get higher lines. I really could not see any striking difference in the d line height between low and high values. It seemed to me midfielders were pushed upper with high values and vice versa but not the back line. Does anyone got how this one work?

This last couple of month I ve spent all my testing sessions on the positioning files and my progress are close to zero. I wish I could manage to get my cdm in the stands like @Topaz managed to do times ago, for the sake of learning something at least. @Topaz if you read this... teach me!
 
papinho81 said:
I am not sure I have added a single variable since the last update, I will check.

The time I have for gaming and testing is close to zero this days.

I had a small testing session yesterday though and I tried to adjust the d line height using the modifier. But I am still not sure if I should increase or decrease the value to get higher lines. I really could not see any striking difference in the d line height between low and high values. It seemed to me midfielders were pushed upper with high values and vice versa but not the back line. Does anyone got how this one work?

This last couple of month I ve spent all my testing sessions on the positioning files and my progress are close to zero. I wish I could manage to get my cdm in the stands like @Topaz managed to do times ago, for the sake of learning something at least. @Topaz if you read this... teach me!
Click to expand...
Increasing the value should be adding height.

Was the CDM positioning done using the DB in legacy?
 
Rafter84 said:
I have found key values missing are Actor Base Max Acceleration and Speed, Intensity to Accel and Speed (all in Actor, Action Runtime).
Click to expand...
Feel free to add them.
The tutorial provided by @manmachine in the first pages of this thread was good enough to make me, a cheat engine noob, manage to add them on my first try. Also you can basically copy paste already existing files and changes things the way you need (mostly the reference array of bites in the script, the variable structure, and the offsets for the variables values).
 
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