Euro 2008, who will make it ?

[Re-arranged]

thx, DB, for explaining it to me.

vanzandt, your post is pure bullshit as u stated at the end of it, therefore I won't even bother answering to ur crap any longer. It's obvious that ur a blind, insane fanatic who just seeks someone to have an argument with and to relieve your anger after loosing a game in a shameful catenaccio-like football which didn't work cos your not Italy obviously. Goodbye and good luck.

 

[Cloud1863]

Vanzandt, you don't honestly think anyone has read those big kick-ass posts do you?

Don't be blaming refs, which seems to be the norm, Rooney was offside according to England commentators, so guess it evens itself out.

Don't worry guys you can always watch it on the TV with us Scots.

I saw the Georgia result coming, god knows where the bookies got us 1/2 on to beat them at their own place. Poor performance though, especially from Fletcher, Fergusons and Maloney I thought. It means we have to beat Italy which will be a tall order, when before a draw would've done us.


FD

That is a scary thought.

We can only blame ourselvs and Steve McLaren, we havent been good enough. The draw with Macedonia is coming back to bite us in the backside.

 

[Plan M]

We (England) were not good enough and second-choice McClaren isn't good enough. I class him as a "wet lettuce" manager. Not enough bite - he smiles too much. It's as simple as that.

I do feel for Vanzandt though - some of the points he made were very good. I have noticed a lot of hate/jealousy/'call it what you will' directed at England and their supporters in the forums. It's probably because England has the best league in the world (The Premiership) at the moment therefore should be qualifying for major tournaments and winning them.

Remember when Serie A was the best league in the world? Did Italy dominate world football then? I don't think so. What about Spain? How many World Cups have they won with their fantastic possession football? It was NONE when I last checked.

 

[vanzandt]

thx, DB, for explaining it to me.

vanzandt, your post is pure bullshit as u stated at the end of it, therefore I won't even bother answering to ur crap any longer. It's obvious that ur a blind, insane fanatic who just seeks someone to have an argument with and to relieve your anger after loosing a game in a shameful catenaccio-like football which didn't work cos your not Italy obviously. Goodbye and good luck.

No answers whatsoever to the questions I have raised have you..none.

You post your comments which I respond to, but you offer nothing in the way of answers yourself to anything put to you.

Like I said there is a lot of disgusting anti English sentiment couched in football terms everytime England has a defeat.

You were mocking of the England team which you yourself admited were comments not directed at me, but the England national team and presumably English fans in general.

When England beat Russia, you did not hear any mocking and piss taking from me, but now you win things you sink to the level of the back biters who always appear in these threads.

Can you show me where are all the derogatory slurs upon Russia or the other nations are?

I mean show me where I have done this?

No.

I guess what comes with the territory in being English is that you are mocked, have the piss taken out of you when you lose. Many English people say nothing, heck some of us even join in and attack ourselves...no boasting, no arrogance, no attacks on other teams whether it is a win or a loss....no over the top pride. Just wanting your own team to win or qualify and being slaughtered by the scum bag back biters who as aminority alwasy sit in wait on such things and rub their hands with glee and appear in such threads.

Yes racism is NOT racism if it is against the English and not if it is hidden in sheeps clothing and couched in football terms. And you are not mocking England because you have won a match of course.....merely a coicidence.

P.S

Where is the mocking of other teams poor results?

Oops sorry yea they aren't English are they

 

[Plan M]

vanzandt, mockery of Italian and Scottish football ARE NOT allowed at Evo-Web mate (despite all the cheating and the farcical SPL). Trust me, I found this out in the past.

 

[airjoca]

P.S

Where is the mocking of other teams poor results?

Oops sorry yea they aren't English are they

This is an English forum, therefore people talk more about England I guess. Also for the fact that you're coming up with typical excuses for Englands shortcomings.

In this same thread, when Portugal tied against Poland and Serbia at home, I said we were shit, and we were. Nobody in Portugal blamed the ref or anything, we knew our team could and should do better.
Edit: we blamed the coach and the players.

 

[Plan M]

Where are Portugal in their group mate? That is who I support at the tournaments when England get knocked out.

 

[vanzandt]

This is an English forum, therefore people talk more about England I guess. Also for the fact that you're coming up with typical excuses for Englands shortcomings.

In this same thread, when Portugal tied against Poland and Serbia at home, I said we were shit, and we were. Nobody in Portugal blamed the ref or anything, we knew our team could and should do better.
Edit: we blamed the coach and the players.

Thank you for the straight forward and honest post.

I understand what you are saying, but each match is taken on its merits yes?

I mean there are many times when I say we lost because we were shit. I said it about England when we lost in Croatia.

I am not offering up excuses for each and every loss, just as I am sure you would not do- which in fact you haven't.

But we have all seen matches where things have had a major impact that is not right, should I pretend this was not so in this one game to satisfy other people that I am not someone who alwasy makes excuses?

I don't see why.

I am as open as anyone else when it comes to analysing a match to say yes on that night we weere shit- if it is so, like I did when we played Croatia.

Equally I can say that a given teams players well and deserves to beat us without any problem if I think it is so and I do, do that when it happens also.

I am not dogmatic in this regard I promise you, though I can see why you write the post/put the question.

But you must admit and all must admit some games hinge on key decisions, and all of us at times have a right of complaint. I feel rightly or wrongly that that right of complaint was that penalty.

Separately from all this though;

The attack on the English that is so often evidenced after any defeat, that is almost never evidenced after the defeat of other nations is not fair and it is shameful.

It is people hiding their dislike for the English and for anti English sentiment....for couching it in football talk...as though it is just a conversation about football...this is not so.

Very often this is people who are trolling who like nothing better than an England defeat so they can get involved in bad behaviour.

I NEVER boast if England win. I did not do this and act in this shitty way towards the Russians when England won at wembley. Neither did I boast or try and make out England are anything special.

Neither did I attack Scotlant or Germany for losing, neither did I mock the national teams, fans or national games of these teams and peoples.

Why should it be acceptable to do this to the English?

Why should such, mocking, such derision, such dare I say racism be allowed....strong anti-Englsih sentiment verballised....that is racism.

I have never ripped into the history of any nation post a defeat...I have never mocked all the players of that nation etc...

Why is it acceptable here from other people?

P.S

airjoca nothing wrong at all in your post I quoted and nothing wrong in posting and asking the question you did. Like I have said I do not hide behind excuses if I believe we lose because of shit play I say so. But I can't and should not have to pretend that massive decisions are uninportant when they clearly alter the result....no one should have to do that.

 

[Ferraritim]

Can I have the names of these medicore players please, players that in 2 games have controlled the possesion over the Mighty World Class England :lmao:

These words quoted are prime example of a Casual

this is pure ignorance. calling players who you simply don't know bunch of mediocre football players is pathetic...

:lmao: :lol:

Thanks for reminding me why I so often tend to stay away from discussing football in this section of the forums. :mrgreen:

You all understood me wrong. Ofcourse I don't think England's players are great and Russia's are mediocre. I was exaggerating. But the fact is that England's players have much more quality and experience.

Re-arranged: You seem to be a big chauvinist. I am supporting the Russian team, so don't worry. Don't forget that there's a big difference between a great team and a team consisting of great players.

 

[marukomu]

Problem with England is they are hyped up too much by the media and the players. Maybe that's why some people delight in our downfall.

 

[vanzandt]

Problem with England is they are hyped up too much by the media and the players. Maybe that's why some people delight in our downfall.

Maybe there is truth in that, certainly in the media point- less sure about the players.

It is not something that should be taken out of English fans.

What can I do about it?

nothing.

 

[Re-arranged]

No answers whatsoever to the questions I have raised have you..none.

You post your comments which I respond to, but you offer nothing in the way of answers yourself to anything put to you.

Like I said there is a lot of disgusting anti English sentiment couched in football terms everytime England has a defeat.

You were mocking of the England team which you yourself admited were comments not directed at me, but the England national team and presumably English fans in general.

When England beat Russia, you did not hear any mocking and piss taking from me, but now you win things you sink to the level of the back biters who always appear in these threads.

Can you show me where are all the derogatory slurs upon Russia or the other nations are?

I mean show me where I have done this?

No.

I guess what comes with the territory in being English is that you are mocked, have the piss taken out of you when you lose. Many English people say nothing, heck some of us even join in and attack ourselves...no boasting, no arrogance, no attacks on other teams whether it is a win or a loss....no over the top pride. Just wanting your own team to win or qualify and being slaughtered by the scum bag back biters who as aminority alwasy sit in wait on such things and rub their hands with glee and appear in such threads.

Yes racism is NOT racism if it is against the English and not if it is hidden in sheeps clothing and couched in football terms. And you are not mocking England because you have won a match of course.....merely a coicidence.

P.S

Where is the mocking of other teams poor results?

Oops sorry yea they aren't English are they

OMG, you need to see a doctor.

 

[CBG]

Russia is a great country, it has a grand history and it has a proud people. Its footballers and the football fans showed real passion last night. They were in fine voice and had the the hunger, the drive and the desire to win. The English wilted, they were only 2-1 down, if they had the right mentality they could have got another goal but they gave up like a bunny in the car lights.

Instead it was the Russian players who showed pride, they had the desire and they battled for everything, they won through sheer effort.

As long as you big, rich countries keep underestimating Eastern Europe, we'll keep trying and we'll keep winning and causing the shocks. Mark us down a the little team, the underdog with no good players - we don't mind your mistakes will be your downfalls...

 

[vanzandt]

Russia is a great country,
...

Who said it wasn’t?

Actually it is a great country and a shit country, just as the most countries are, just as the US is, just as England is…most countries.

It depends upon who you are and the time and the place.

it has a grand history and it has a proud people.
...

Who said otherwise?

Equally England has a grand history and a proud people.

Also equally both countries have terrible aspects to there respective histories, just as most countries have.

Its footballers and the football fans showed real passion last night.
...

Yes.

They were in fine voice and had the the hunger, the drive and the desire to win.
...

The away England fans were also in fine voice.

Where are we going with this though?

The English wilted, they were only 2-1 down, if they had the right mentality they could have got another goal but they gave up like a bunny in the car lights.

This is clichéd rubbish. So did Russia wilt at Wembley and act like bunnies?

The fact is neither side wilted on either occasion.

The fact is sometimes big game hinge on incidents within the game.

It was NOT a penalty.

If the penalty is not given would the tide have turned?

Would England have lost composure, could Russia have scored another goal?

This IS the KEY point whether people wish to acknowledge it or not.

Instead it was the Russian players who showed pride, they had the desire and they battled for everything, they won through sheer effort.
...

So by logical extension according to your reasoning the very same players showed NO pride or desire at Wembley?

Presumably all teams that lose a match lack pride and desire?

This is clichéd nonsense.

As long as you big, rich countries keep underestimating Eastern Europe, we'll keep trying and we'll keep winning and causing the shocks.

You want to try and make this out as though we were some nasty Goliath, this is pure bullshit. England did NOT underestimate Russia. Most fans I spoke to felt it was going to be a tough game and even Mclaren spoke of it being a tough game. No one was underestimating Russia. You had two teams and one of them won, this does not makes us a bunch of cunts as you would like to point out.

Mark us down a the little team, the underdog with no good players - we don't mind your mistakes will be your downfalls...

Show me where Mclaren or any of the England set-up said that Russia was a little team or show me where they said that Russia had no good players.

Evidence this please!!!

If this is directed at me show me where I have said either…again evidence please.


Once again this is another post that is FULL to the brim of anti English sentiment.

You would think that the England team, Mclaren and English fans were colonial white suited arrogant mustachioed types from the 1800s who were trying to impose their world view on everyone.

Why don’t you wake up and smell the fucking coffee/go to England and see the reality and cut out the bigoted nonsense which might have applied to the 1800s but has fuck all place when relating to modern England and English fans.

P.S

I am a big fan of Russian literature and have read much of the works of Dostoyevsky, Solzhenitsyn, Turgenev and Nabokov.

A skin head with a british bulldog t-shirt.

A white suited Lord Kitchener looky-like who drinks pink gin while putting down my colonial repression of dignified but supressed people.

One of the above three statements is true the others are false...must be two or three surely (shakes head).

 

[CBG]

Your media underestimated Russia, I live in the UK now and have for years and years. The London Paper and London Lite ran sections on the game. They had England Player v Russian Player featurettes, each one said the England player would come out on top in Moscow.

It's not just about the Moscow match. England were utterly outclassed by Croatia one year ago. Again the English media said Croatia were a poor team with a rookie manager (they wrote a load of pap about Bilic being a flop at your club, Everton)... they had no "world class players". But that was rubbish, Croatia has world class players like Modric (who destroys Ajax in UEFA Cup), Dario Simic (a great player in Serie A), Ivan Klasenic (good bundesliga striker), these are all good players. Even average Croatian players go to England and do well. Look at Vede Corluka at Man City.

Same with Macedonia, you thought they were an easy tip, but they have a great manager (Katanec did wonders with Slovenija and was a great player all accross Europe). And it's the Macedonia match in England which is costing you now. They have good players like Pandev and are well organised.

It's not just an English problem, the Netherlands underestimated Romania and it cost them on the Black Sea last weekend (though they had a good game, but lacked the killer finish). But in England there is such an obession with the premier league, it clouds the view of other european football.

Some of the English media is good, like the Guardian sports, and the Times sports can be ok. But the popular papers, the ones I see all the guys reading on the tube train to work Sun, Mirror etc, they don't know about anything outside of the top 2 divisions of English football. You have to take the opposition seriously, you need to study them. Look at Germany, the Germans always research their opposition, they always know strenghts and weaknesses - they usually do very well, all the research pays off. And you know, foreign footballers are not stupid, they can read the English papers too, Bilic showed the Sun to the Croatia team to motivate them...

 

[airjoca]

Where are Portugal in their group mate? That is who I support at the tournaments when England get knocked out.

2nd. Two games left at home against Armenia and Finland. If we get 4 out the 6 points from those matches we're qualified, so I'm not worried.

All teams with 12 matches

Poland 24pts
Portugal 23pts
Serbia 20pts
Finland 20pts

 

[vanzandt]

Your media underestimated Russia, I live in the UK now and have for years and years. The London Paper and London Lite ran sections on the game. They had England Player v Russian Player featurettes, each one said the England player would come out on top in Moscow.
...

I think the operative word above is MEDIA.

And to be fair this is also just one small section of the media.

English football fans do not deserve to have all these outdated clichés and patently untrue and unfair comments made towards them.

It's not just about the Moscow match. England were utterly outclassed by Croatia one year ago. Again the English media said Croatia were a poor team with a rookie manager (they wrote a load of pap about Bilic being a flop at your club, Everton)... they had no "world class players". But that was rubbish, Croatia has world class players like Modric (who destroys Ajax in UEFA Cup), Dario Simic (a great player in Serie A), Ivan Klasenic (good bundesliga striker), these are all good players. Even average Croatian players go to England and do well. Look at Vede Corluka at Man City.

I agree England were outclassed by Croatia. I think England were shit and Croatia wer good.

But again you are quoting something from SECTIONS of the MEDIA. Why should the England team and English fans be on the other end of ALL this disgusting attitude?

I have done nothing, I am respectful towards other nations, most English I know are exactly the same. The overwhelming English fans trait if there is one, is pessimism, NOT arrogance.

Also you are being VERY unfair and selective in the material you are viewing because I absolutely guarantee that you will find sections of the media in Germany, Italy, Spain etc that are equally full of crap and arrogant. But again this is NOT a reflection of what the fans in the street think. Why given this media problem also exists in certain sections of the aforementioned countries, why do we never see such disgusting attitudes towards the Spanish, German, Italian fans etc after they have been beaten?

You are trying to sign off terrible attitude, clichés and blatant untruths about English fans on the basis of limited sections of the media.

It's not just an English problem, the Netherlands underestimated Romania and it cost them on the Black Sea last weekend (though they had a good game, but lacked the killer finish). But in England there is such an obession with the premier league, it clouds the view of other european football.

If it is not just an English thing can you please explain why no other nation of these forums gets anywhere near as much stick as England do after a defeat or failure?

I mean if others are supposed to be equally guilty in terms of sections of the media, why do we almost never see people with veherment anti Dutch feelings expressing themselves, the same goes for other European nationas with big leagues?

Why are the English national team and fans attacked and mocked?

Some of the English media is good, like the Guardian sports, and the Times sports can be ok.
...

If I read a paper it is either the Guardian or the Independent.

But the popular papers, the ones I see all the guys reading on the tube train to work Sun, Mirror etc, they don't know about anything outside of the top 2 divisions of English football.
...[/QUOTE]

I disagree with you I don’t think they even know that. But why should the England national team be mocked because of the Sun newspaper or the Mirror etc?

Why should I as an England fan face derision, piss taking,scorn, mocking comments, the history of my team pulled to pieces, face fabricated statements I about what I supposed to believe etc.

Why should I face shameful racism because of the Sun and Mirror newspapers?

You have to take the opposition seriously, you need to study them. Look at Germany, the Germans always research their opposition, they always know strenghts and weaknesses - they usually do very well, all the research pays off. And you know, foreign footballers are not stupid, they can read the English papers too, Bilic showed the Sun to the Croatia team to motivate them...

Again what has the Sun newspaper got to do with me? What does it have to do with the majority of England fans or the national team?

Do I deserve vehement anti English properganda, hate and racism to be shoved down my throat and my national identity pulled to pieces because of what crap a few newspapers print- because of things that have nothing to do with me or my control?

Also I must say Mclaren and the England set-up were very respectful of the opposition, if anything they were too respectful in terms of going very defensive and too worried about the Russian attack….if you understand me.

You can argue as to how good a job Mclaren did in Russia, but what you cannot argue is there being a lack of respect because this is simply a lie. Also I do think it a bit rich and taking the piss to be honest for Russian fans to start acting all arrogant over the victory. I mean will all know that if that penalty was not given it would almost certainly have been a very different result. So I do not think Russian fans should be taking the piss out of English fans, hindsight and a bad decision were MORE than helpful and so the win should be welcomed with humility. When England won at wembley I was not swinging from chandeliers boasting about how good England were, neither was I stating how shit Russia were to Russian fans….this is terrible schadenfreude that no fan should be part of.

P.S

I also watch seria a, La Liga, a bit of the Bundsliga, a bit of Brazilian and Argentinian football, international football Copa America etc etc.

I am not some up my own ass England fan. I think much of what has been said on these lines throughout this thread has been a disgrace and much of it does amount to racism on occasion, outdated clichés on others…..or pure schadenfreude.

I don’t even rate England that highly, but they are my team and I just want to us to do ok and talk about the team etc….I don’t see why I should have to accept all the stuff I have because of my national identity.

 

[Re-arranged]

vanzandt, you are such a strange guy, first you start saying the ref was the one who's spoiled everything for you, the pitch was awful(thou England for most of the time plays using long airborne passes and pitch has nothing to do with them that's a fact) then you ask not to judge u by stereotypes and cliches. You just acted stupid and stereotypical how can't you understand?! And by the way if you were more attentive and careful at reading you should've noticed, only one of my posts was directed at you . And it was not cos I'm England-hating mofo, but cause you acted stupid and completely disrespectful to opponents who were simply a better team and really deserved this win.

 

[Blue4life]

NORTHERN IRELAND SHOULD QUALIFY....

 

[vanzandt]

vanzandt, you are such a strange guy, first you start saying the ref was the one who's spoiled everything for you, the pitch was awful(thou England for most of the time plays using long airborne passes and pitch has nothing to do with them that's a fact).
.

Yes I have said this and I believe it is so.

We know for a fact that the penalty was not a penalty, do you agree with this?

Do you agree that this decision was completely wrong?

If you do, you must concede that the result factually would have been materially different. The Rooney goal was also onside by the way, If you go and find footage you will not be able to see any daylight between the Rooney and the last man.

The pitch which was also a complaint though no where near as much a complaint as the penalty decision. I do not wish to talk further about the pitch as I feel such talk with detract from the main points and my bones of contention.

then you ask not to judge u by stereotypes and cliches. You just acted stupid and stereotypical how can't you understand?!
.

So let’s get this straight I am stupid because I am not happy with the penalty decision and the pitch?

And because of this “stupidity quote”, you have the right along with others to attack me/English fans and the English national team with anti English comments and stereotypes?

And by the way if you were more attentive and careful at reading you should've noticed, only one of my posts was directed at you .
.

But this logic falls down completely and I will show you why;

Your comments were derogatory to the England team and by extension they were derogatory to English fans and I am an English fan. Your comments were anti English- they just were- your statements and what they imply in the conversations you were involved in.

So whether I was mistaken in thinking they were directed at me or not is neither here nor there and is irrelevant. Directly or indirectly they are derogatory, mocking etc and of me because I am as an English fan.

E,g

If you make derogatory comments about people with one leg you should not be surprised if you offend a man with one leg.

You cannot expect to be involved in derogatory and anti English conversations and not offend the only English supporter who was in the thread and commenting at the time.

To think that you can is unrealistic and wrong.

And it was not cos I'm England-hating mofo, but cause you acted stupid and completely disrespectful to opponents who were simply a better team and really deserved this win.

Really.

I think you need to analyze your behavior and compare it to mine, because I think what you have said is simply untrue.

You say you were not England hating but you behaved as though you were, the conversation you were in at the time that was not directed at me was of this nature.

You and a couple of guys were extremely mocking and disrespectful of the England national team and its fans. I could feel the derision and hatred etc dripping off the page, it upset me and really pissed me off.

You say I acted stupid, but you define stupid behavior as not agree with the penalty and the fact I felt it was a major factor in changing the result and because I was not happy with the pitch.

Is that really stupid or simply a differing point of view that should be respected or at the least tolerated?

I did not tell you that you were stupid for your belief that Russian deserved the win. I disagreed with you over the Rooney goal but I did not say you were stupid to disagree.

You say in the above quote that I was disrespectful to opponents.

Can you detail each and every one of these disrespectful comments?

You see I don’t believe there are any.

I said NOTHING that was disrespectful to the Russian team or its fans.

There was a mistake, possibly a translation issue whereby you possibly and understandably thought that a comparative I made was a criticism. I understand how you could think that, but I know that my intention and use of the comparative was NOT a criticism.

The fact is I concentrated almost solely on the refereeing decision and how I believe it affected the game and I mentioned the pitch. I didn’t actually say anything at all in relation to the Russian team one way or the other.

This is in contrast to your behavior and the derogatory anti English conversation you were involved in.

disrespectful to opponents who were simply a better team and really deserved this win.
.

You could argue that Russia showed more passion and endeavor, equally you could argue that until the unfair penalty England were totally in control of the game.

You could argue that Russia were better in the last 30 minutes and that England were better in the first 60 minutes, given the goal scored, the success of the tactics employed to that point and the most clear cut chance in the game being the Gerrard miss.

Football is about big moments, timing, taking chances, errors and decisions and very often the result is at complete odds with effort and what may or may not be deserved.

I haven’t really debated who deserved the win as it is largely irrelevant to my mind. I mean how often do you get what you deserve in football anyway?

Where does such talk get anyone?

The point I made was that the penalty decision turned the game, that the game HINGED on that moment and that without the mistaken penalty decision, England would have got a result. This is NOT stupid, this is NOT disrespectful. The conversation you were involved in was.

If it is a big deal to you I could say Russia deserved to win in terms of passion and commitment, no problem. But equally it does not change the fact that the penalty decision was KEY and without it Russia would NOT have a result.

I never felt England were great in this game or prior, sorry to let you down and ruin the stereotype. I also felt Russia were a decent side, again sorry to ruin the stereotype.

I had every respect for Russia going into this game because I felt it was a touch and go game that could just as easily be lost as won. I think the England team including Mclaren felt the same way and I felt the tactics reflected this (counter attacking). In the derogatory conversation it was said that England didn’t respect Croatia. Actually Mclaren was so worried about Croatia that he completely changed the England formation- such was the level of respect and concern. Also I was well aware of Croatia brilliant record at home in qualifiers, so I too was very respectful of Croatia. Myabe the Sun and Mirror newspapers weren’t maybe the odd prat on English TV wasn’t- but they are prats and not the England fans or team.

If England fail to qualify I will wish Russia every success as I have no problem whatsoever with the Russian team or fans of the team.

Don’t fall in the trap of believing the lies of English fans being all arrogant is true because it is not. Don’t believe the lies that the England national team are arrogant, they are no more arrogant than most teams of similar ability, though I am probably sure that a daft player here or there, the same goes for Germany or Italy teams as not all footballers have a high IQ.

Don’t believe the lie that we see all teams from the East as mediocre and a walkover because we don’t. You might find the Sun and the Mirror saying that, you might find a prat on TV saying that and you might find the odd prat in the pub thinking that- but not the England team and not proper decent fans.

You shouldn’t make assumptions as to the character you are talking to because of these incorrect and outdated stereotypes.

 

[Stringer Bell]

vanzandt i don't understand why wasting your time writing these long ass post, your really think people are reading it!?!?!

 

[Nick Cave]

vanzandt, if England had shown as much passion and put half the effort you have in this thread we would already have qualified...

 

[The Lion]

from pesfan forum:
"Rio Ferdinand after the game send sms to his Russian friend: "We are the shite." So wrote in many newspappers.
Maybe Rio is right?
Respect to Rooney and Gerrard, they is really manly men, well-mannered. Russian people are respecting English players and fans as before as after the game. But McClown is a little girl. Trust me. I read Russian newspappers."

 

[embraceuk1]

Irrelevant.

The whole gave pivots on the penalty.

Even with the other goal scored (it probably wouldn't have been scored without the penalty and the change in momentum) we STILL would be talking about a decent result.

We lose because of a penalty given for a foul OUTSIDE the box.....end of!!!!

LOL which event happened first of course the missed chance by gerrard is equally important than the dodgy penalty it happened before it, if gerrard had scored maybe England would have gotten beat 3-2

 

[Re-arranged]

vanzandt, watched a replay of that moment a couple of times and Rooney was about 15-20 cm nearer to the goal than one Vasiliy Berezutski. If u say this isn't offside, then by your logic there was a clear penalty, cos Zyryanov started falling about 15-20 cm before the penalty area. By the way in this situation FIFA suggests to look where the player finished falling not where he started(I mean situations when it's cm's close to the box) in the case of Zyryanov it was about 30-40 cm inside the penalty box, so it's a clear penalty.

Let's look at it from the other side, if it isn't a penalty then it's a straight red card for Rooney, cos Zyryanov was clear on goal in that moment and he never misses situations like that. Plus a very dangerous free kick which could've materialized into goal, just cos Russia has enough quality shooters (Arshavin, Pavlyuchenko, Zyryanov, Semshov etc) to convert it into the goal.

England wasn't in control of the game, you were just sitting ten men back and defending, not really even counter-attacking well. And the second goal just 5 minutes after the first one just showed it. If it was like you said then why did England fall into pieces instead of trying to push Russia back and prevent them from scoring second? It's retorical question so don't answer to it. If the team is in control, then they won't let moments like with penalty even happen. I think it's obvious if you understand even a little bit in football.

A good team never falls into pieces even after a goal it actually mobilizes them and they push opponent(look at Russia after the first goal). So don't blame the ref, the pitch, blame the shitty team strategy and organization.

By the way, for me the main problem of England team is that your lines are very unbalanced, u've got 3 world-class defenders like Terry, Rio, Campbell(Carra has finished his int'l career) the others are good but clearly 1-2 levels lower then those. the same with side backs Cashley just degraded seriously in the past 2 years, Micah Richards is good, but still far from world class and makes lots of mistakes in positioning, Gary Neville is very injury prone and is loosing his abilities fastly due to age, Shorey is far from world class just another good player, the same with other players - Bridge, Brown both nothing special. You don't have a top-class keeper, don't have tough post players (Heskey just too bad on the ground and inconsistent, Crouch is too bad at heading and isn't reliable really), Owen is too fragile, Rooney is good, but he's not a top-forward, Andy Johnson the same, Defoe is definetely degrading, D.Bent is a good pair for Rooney, but he is out of form this year and loosing to Keane and Berbatov in the fight for the place in starting 11. These are obvious problems that prevent you from becoming a top team and you're far from solving them. This wasn't the ref decision that killed you, but those problems that just showed up in the worst possible moment. Every time England looses I hear the same poor excuses, but the answer is you don't have a team that u think you do.

I don't wanna argue with you anymore cause you prove me right with every post you make, so don't even bother answering I won't write anything else to you, in fact it will just show that I was right about you and you are just another blind fanatic. And there's a good place for likes of you - ignore list.

Fare the well.

 

[Re-arranged]

from pesfan forum:
"Rio Ferdinand after the game send sms to his Russian friend: "We are the shite." So wrote in many newspappers.
Maybe Rio is right?
Respect to Rooney and Gerrard, they is really manly men, well-mannered. Russian people are respecting English players and fans as before as after the game. But McClown is a little girl. Trust me. I read Russian newspappers."

Yep, exactly, McClaren just showed what a looser he is in the press-conference after the game, he just told that he won't accept any questions from russian journalists and that his words shouldn't be translated into russian.

I do respect English players and fans, in fact I'm a huge fan of EPL( and Newcastle Utd as u can see from my avatar).

 

[ALAIN]

vanzandt, watched a replay of that moment a couple of times and Rooney was about 15-20 cm nearer to the goal than one Vasiliy Berezutski. If u say this isn't offside, then by your logic there was a clear penalty, cos Zyryanov started falling about 15-20 cm before the penalty area. By the way in this situation FIFA suggests to look where the player finished falling not where he started(I mean situations when it's cm's close to the box) in the case of Zyryanov it was about 30-40 cm inside the penalty box, so it's a clear penalty.

Let's look at it from the other side, if it isn't a penalty then it's a straight red card for Rooney, cos Zyryanov was clear on goal in that moment and he never misses situations like that. Plus a very dangerous free kick which could've materialized into goal, just cos Russia has enough quality shooters (Arshavin, Pavlyuchenko, Zyryanov, Semshov etc) to convert it into the goal.

England wasn't in control of the game, you were just sitting ten men back and defending, not really even counter-attacking well. And the second goal just 5 minutes after the first one just showed it. If it was like you said then why did England fall into pieces instead of trying to push Russia back and prevent them from scoring second? It's retorical question so don't answer to it. If the team is in control, then they won't let moments like with penalty even happen. I think it's obvious if you understand even a little bit in football.

A good team never falls into pieces even after a goal it actually mobilizes them and they push opponent(look at Russia after the first goal). So don't blame the ref, the pitch, blame the shitty team strategy and organization.

By the way, for me the main problem of England team is that your lines are very unbalanced, u've got 3 world-class defenders like Terry, Rio, Campbell(Carra has finished his int'l career) the others are good but clearly 1-2 levels lower then those. the same with side backs Cashley just degraded seriously in the past 2 years, Micah Richards is good, but still far from world class and makes lots of mistakes in positioning, Gary Neville is very injury prone and is loosing his abilities fastly due to age, Shorey is far from world class just another good player, the same with other players - Bridge, Brown both nothing special. You don't have a top-class keeper, don't have tough post players (Heskey just too bad on the ground and inconsistent, Crouch is too bad at heading and isn't reliable really), Owen is too fragile, Rooney is good, but he's not a top-forward, Andy Johnson the same, Defoe is definetely degrading, D.Bent is a good pair for Rooney, but he is out of form this year and loosing to Keane and Berbatov in the fight for the place in starting 11. These are obvious problems that prevent you from becoming a top team and you're far from solving them. This wasn't the ref decision that killed you, but those problems that just showed up in the worst possible moment. Every time England looses I hear the same poor excuses, but the answer is you don't have a team that u think you do.

I don't wanna argue with you anymore cause you prove me right with every post you make, so don't even bother answering I won't write anything else to you, in fact it will just show that I was right about you and you are just another blind fanatic. And there's a good place for likes of you - ignore list.

Fare the well.

What are you talking about??No way Rooney could have been sent off!!maybe just a yellow card,that'all!!
England were in total control of the game,during this period Russia didn't create a single chance
But like you said the real problem of the England squad is the lack of "world class players".I mean all the players who were on the pitch how many would play in a team like Milan Ac or Barcelona or Inter?Gerrard,Ferdinand for sure maybe Rooney and Joe cole and that's all.The rest are good players but only for the crazy speed of th EPL and when you play at an international level you cant simply play like that because both team have to play that way(to have the crazy speed)
The problem comes also with the Academies.There isn't enough talents coming from the formation.why?NO it's not the foreigners faults!if a player is good enough he will play ,just look at Micah Ridchards!I mean the whole structure has to be re-worked.
And then the Media bullshit!Media has to stop over hyped some players when they have done nothing yet.For instance i remember Theo Walcott before the world cup,according to some media he was going to be the"YOUNG"of the world cup even if he hadn't played in ePL yet!!By doing that ,the media doesn't do any favour to the player!

 

[Re-arranged]

It was a clear one-on-one if not a foul, defender wasn't too far, but there was no way he was able to reach the ball even before Zyryanov taking a shot, so if you think that it's not a straight red, that's your problem. Anyway, I'm tired of arguing - the fact is we won and all those what ifs are pure speculation and don't even deserve to be brought up. I don't remember me saying anything about the ref denying our goal so don't act like bunch of losers and take this defeat with honour. There are games ahead (2 for us 1 for you) that can change everything.

I'm outta this meaningless argument.

 

[embraceuk1]

Rooney should have been booked for diving after he fouled him it was class

 

[Jumbo_]

He was booked.