English Premier League thread

Peter Eyres said:
So tobi that would mean players who play for countries like Uruagay or Bulgaria could never ever be considered world class.

It wouldn't matter how fantastic they are with their clubs if their country would get nowhere near the latter stages of the WC or an EC

?
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They can be world class, just because their country may not get to the latter stages of a major tournament doesn't mean that they aren't performing for their country.

Gerrard for me isn't world class because he does not perform consistenly perform for his country, Cristiano Ronaldo has had two back to back great seasons for his club but has he been consistent for Portugal?

Gigi Buffon is world class, R9 at a stage in his career was world class, Totti has been magnificent for Roma over the years but he'll never be world class because he wasn't consistent for Italy.
 
Its easy to stand out in a team like Bulgaria though!

Thats my point.

There are numerous reasons why a player might not perform for their country. Managers, relationships with other players, being played out of position, not having the same balance you have in your club team etc

If they were merely playing for their club and doing well becasue they are surrounded or are being carried by world class from other countries then that is understandable, but you can't really say that about Gerrard and Rio can you, they have quality around them yet they are still key players and a vital clog in any success their clubs acheive.
 
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I think it's unfair to judge players on their international performances, especially since they are so rare, and especially for players like Totti, who need to know their whole team better to perform.
 
The goal Agbonlahor scored saturday against Bolton was IMHO an absolute beauty, both in the build up and in the finishing...great counter attack.
 
steevio_uk said:
Bolton are just a mickey mouse football club.

Any team that has music playing after goals should have their 2-bit stadium burned down and their inbred fans shot.

Just a general feeling, like...
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I ALWAYS say this - I hate to hear some tacky tune playing after a goal is scored. It's football, not ice hockey.
 
So you lot don't think Rooney's world class? to be fair apart from goals i really can't see ANYTHING that he could add to his game, for me he's easily world class.
 
He has all the potential to be world class, but he needs to prove himself more with England and with Man Utd in Europe.
This doesn't mean that he hasn't shown big class with England and Utd in Europe.
A world class player is virtually a team on his own...a world class player is a player who can decide virtually every match match on his own. Rooney surely already decided matches on his own, but not enough.
Last of all a true world class player is a leading figure on the pitch...

Maybe i can prove my point by comparing:

Rooney is not (or not yet) a Cruijff, Van Hanegem or Rensenbrienk but he's better than Neeskens, Krol and Rep.
Rooney is not (or not yet) a Beckenbauer or Muller, but he is already better than Breitner and Ulli Hoeness
Rooney is not better than Best, Cantona, Charlton or Dennis Law, but he is already better than Hughes and dozens other former Man Utd players.
Rooney is not better than Maradonna, Ardiles or Kempes, but he is already better than Burruchaga, Luque and Valdano.
Rooney is not as good as Pele, Garrincha or Tostao (or Ronaldinho or Zico) but he is already better than Ronaldo, Paulo Cesar and other Brazilian players...
I think it is obvious that Rooney is not as good as the true legends like Pele, Cruijff, Maradonna, Best, Di Stefano and Garrincha.
But he is also not as good as the players right beneath the absolute stars, players like Gerd Muller, Robbie Rensenbrink, Tostao, Rivera, Ardiles...
He can certainly become better or as good as the Mullers and the Rensenbrinks, but i doubt that he will be as good as the absolute stars...


PS: talking about pub talk...this is bullshitting...
 
gerd said:
He has all the potential to be world class, but he needs to prove himself more with England and with Man Utd in Europe.
This doesn't mean that he hasn't shown big class with England and Utd in Europe.
A world class player is virtually a team on his own...a world class player is a player who can decide virtually every match match on his own. Rooney surely already decided matches on his own, but not enough.
Last of all a true world class player is a leading figure on the pitch...

Maybe i can prove my point by comparing:

Rooney is not (or not yet) a Cruijff, Van Hanegem or Rensenbrienk but he's better than Neeskens, Krol and Rep.
Rooney is not (or not yet) a Beckenbauer or Muller, but he is already better than Breitner and Ulli Hoeness
Rooney is not better than Best, Cantona, Charlton or Dennis Law, but he is already better than Hughes and dozens other former Man Utd players.
Rooney is not better than Maradonna, Ardiles or Kempes, but he is already better than Burruchaga, Luque and Valdano.
Rooney is not as good as Pele, Garrincha or Tostao (or Ronaldinho or Zico) but he is already better than Ronaldo, Paulo Cesar and other Brazilian players...
I think it is obvious that Rooney is not as good as the true legends like Pele, Cruijff, Maradonna, Best, Di Stefano and Garrincha.
But he is also not as good as the players right beneath the absolute stars, players like Gerd Muller, Robbie Rensenbrink, Tostao, Rivera, Ardiles...
He can certainly become better or as good as the Mullers and the Rensenbrinks, but i doubt that he will be as good as the absolute stars...


PS: talking about pub talk...this is bullshitting...
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its as if you only watched maradona highlight films.. that guy was inconsistent as well.... im not comparing rooney to diego but you contridict yourself with your criteria that its almost every game they have to be great in

to me rooney is on the path i guess, but i dont know of any seconday striker in the prem who is better... bar maybe his own teamate :) in tevez...
 
Torres up until this season has been a very wasteful and inconsistent striker.
How many goals has he scored away from Anfield?

Torres isn't quite world class just yet...
 
steevio_uk said:
Torres up until this season has been a very wasteful and inconsistent striker.
How many goals has he scored away from Anfield?

Torres isn't quite world class just yet...
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3 at Reading
1 at Derby
1 at Marseille
1 at Inter
1 at Middlesborough

7 Away goals, 21 Home Goals

Go and compare that to Drogba, Anelka, Ashton, Rooney and it will be quite similar.

Oh wait, no, they havent scored 21 goals home or away this season!

But you get my point, the ratio will be similar.

I agree hes not world class yet, but has everything needed to be in that class. But the 'away goals' argument really is pathetic.
 
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gomito#10 said:
but you probably think torres is world class...
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Actually I don't. Torres has done everything I expected of him this season, and much, much more. Scoring 28 goals, in your first season, in a new league and country is some achievement no doubt. However, Torres needs to do this one more season to be considered among the truly world class strikers such as Villa, Eto, Toni, Trezeguet, Nistelrooy etc. Plus he has to start scoring more away from home. He hasn't done that bad, he's scored 7 from 15 games away, but that certainly could be improved. He still needs to adapt to the league, and I am sure he will start scoring away as well (if he continues to develop at this rate).

But Gerrard is world class, but IMO, could be even better in his new position Mascherano is also world class. Truly world class, and IMO, he will be counted amongst the greats of the game, after his career is over. One of the most consistent players in the world, and has had one bad game this season.

Oh, and talking about supporting strikers, I think Berbatov and Tevez, both are better than Rooney.
 
Abhishek said:
Actually I don't. Torres has done everything I expected of him this season, and much, much more. Scoring 28 goals, in your first season, in a new league and country is some achievement no doubt. However, Torres needs to do this one more season to be considered among the truly world class strikers such as Villa, Eto, Toni, Trezeguet, Nistelrooy etc. Plus he has to start scoring more away from home. He hasn't done that bad, he's scored 7 from 15 games away, but that certainly could be improved. He still needs to adapt to the league, and I am sure he will start scoring away as well (if he continues to develop at this rate).

But Gerrard is world class, but IMO, could be even better in his new position Mascherano is also world class. Truly world class, and IMO, he will be counted amongst the greats of the game, after his career is over. One of the most consistent players in the world, and has had one bad game this season.

Oh, and talking about supporting strikers, I think Berbatov and Tevez, both are better than Rooney.
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when berbatov actually trys to defend someone please please come see me...
berbatov is lazy... rooney is not, HUGE difference in my opinion. especially since neither should be poaching... tevez and rooney are very similiar i agree, torres to me is one dimisional, a pure goal scorer and nothing else...
how many seasons does rooney need?
 
gomito#10 said:
when berbatov actually trys to defend someone please please come see me...
berbatov is lazy... rooney is not, HUGE difference in my opinion. especially since neither should be poaching... tevez and rooney are very similiar i agree, torres to me is one dimisional, a pure goal scorer and nothing else...
how many seasons does rooney need?
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Berbatov plays as a supporting striker to Keane, and he is better than Rooney in that position, simple as that (obviously in my opinion).

Yes, Torres is a pure goal scorer, but what's wrong with that? He's supposed to be a goal scorer :LOL:

And one dimensional? Surely you haven't seen his goals this season then? He's scored tap ins, 1-1s, headers, volleys, nutmegging defenders, long range goals etc. Oh, and Torres has also assisted Gerrard on a few occassions to score goals (Reading and Newcastle come to mind).
 
This is the theme of the thread over the last page or so:

"My team's striker is World Class, yours isn't."

"What you on about? Our player IS World Class, yours isn't!"

Everyone is going to stick up for the player on THEIR team at the end of the day. If Rooney played for Liverpool, Peter and Abhi would be wanking but because he doesn't, he isn't World Class. Same goes for our lads talking about Torres.

I personally think Torres AND Rooney are World Class and will only get better...and they play in the PREMIER LEAGUE! :)
 
Abhishek said:
Berbatov plays as a supporting striker to Keane, and he is better than Rooney in that position, simple as that (obviously in my opinion).

Yes, Torres is a pure goal scorer, but what's wrong with that? He's supposed to be a goal scorer :LOL:

And one dimensional? Surely you haven't seen his goals this season then? He's scored tap ins, 1-1s, headers, volleys, nutmegging defenders, long range goals etc. Oh, and Torres has also assisted Gerrard on a few occassions to score goals (Reading and Newcastle come to mind).
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torres setting somone up, or building up play rareley happens, torres scores come spectacular goals no doubt and he is a great great player, but saying he needs one more season like this one and he is world class, is just a slap in the face of rooney who has been doing great at his role for years now.... I have no idea how you can think berbatov is a better seconday striker then rooney when the man is flat out lazy and does not defend... does not come back to help out his midfield, secondary strikers should be complete footballers..
 
Plan M said:
This is the theme of the thread over the last page or so:

"My team's striker is World Class, yours isn't."

"What you on about? Our player IS World Class, yours isn't!"

Everyone is going to stick up for the player on THEIR team at the end of the day. If Rooney played for Liverpool, Peter and Abhi would be wanking but because he doesn't, he isn't World Class. Same goes for our lads talking about Torres.

I personally think Torres AND Rooney are World Class and will only get better...and they play in the PREMIER LEAGUE! :)
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Ooh, but I don' think either are world class :-pp
 
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