eFootball PES 2021 Discussion Thread (PC)

Thanks Kolesnikcr7 ;) And yes, in my mind PES 2021 is the best football simulation to date. Does it have problems.. yeah.. and some of these problems are the key issues or deal breakers for a lot of people.. like certain AI deficiencies, that totally turn people off. I have to say that these same issues don't have that turn-off effect on me. I actually think the AI is pretty damn good compared to most football games ever made. Or my standard for AI is not that great :)
Again, i do believe gameplay/ai etc, has so many varying factors (eg. the way people actually play the game or play with the settings/mods/edits) that we are all essentially playing a slightly different game at times.

Anyways, id have to say that on top of my list is how the players actually move..look and feel, and how the animations work in relation to controller response - how it feels to actually control individual players. I think this is the best aspect of PES2021.. how it feels to dribble, pass, shoot etc. Key football aspects like ball physics are a big thing on my list as well.

Well, as much as im looking fwd to Hollands new GP mod, im gonna spend some more time on this new vanilla 1.07.02 exe to hopefully discover some more things i havent encountered before (yesterday, I had an injury during the game where an opposing player laid on the ground for about 30 seconds before finally getting up and complaining - never seen this yet!!).
 
Completely agree with your previous post @aussiepesfan (and that one too) especially that to me, the game evolved to his maximum potential with 2021 vanilla version.
I never ever play with mods.
The only thing that brings more possibilities but i didn't liked was the switch R2 > Right Stick for "face to the goal control".

Otherwhise i prefers everything. Except the last PES 2020 version vanilla : the ball physics got an evolution in terms of variety but the players were lost against those new ball physics algorithms : in fact it's not super bad to play like this but it create some weird situations. I strongly believe it was a test for PES 2021 or a way for people to buy 2021 version instead of just updating manually 2020. Both are very different, graphisms are similar but gameplay is really retouched from every part, from my point of view.

I also through that vanilla PES 2021 is, even not perfect (perfection doesn't exist) the best representation/sim up to date from 90 to 10 minutes : everything seems balanced to feels the game like if it was a mix between a replay and a 90 minutes match.
 
If someone could make ai more dribbling and fix midfield paramater ( too much space in midfield ) this game would be much much better, sadly no gameplay mod have achieved that.
 
Did 1.07.02 patch change anything in your opinion? I am surprised that they decided to update the "abandoned" game quite recently. I haven't played for a long time and it is a bit different. Could they have deliberately changed the gameplay for the worse? Yes it could be a placebo, it's just that late update is suspect.
 
If anything, I'd say they changed the gameplay for the better. I always preferred the PS4 version and just never liked the PC version at all because I always felt the strength of the script much more strongly on PC. But I played 3 matches when the latest update came out on PC and I quite enjoyed them.

I don't know why they'd do that though. If anything, I would have expected them to deliberately make the game worse to try to force everyone over to their eFootball fiasco.
 
aussiepesfan said:
Yeah ive heard PES2017 and 19 had the best ai overall. I guess its all subjective - all this "which pes has/had the best AI?". Even if this is true, (for me ) they just dont have what pes2021 has as a total package. I think overall, PES 2021 has the most good collectively (when looking at the entire package, graphics, animations, variations, ball physics, ai..etc), which is why its my one and only played football game currently. I know 19 was supposedly one of the most superior looking games in terms of lighting (ive heard this somewhere recently), but i definitely couldnt go back to playing 17. Looked at some of my uploaded pes20217 videos and it looks rubbish in comparison.

Anyways, we are all looking for different things i guess.. but if i had to choose only one football game to play for the next 5 or so years, itd still be Pes2021 - with the ongoing modding that's really built this game into something else. I do wish or hope, that one day someone can really work on modding the player positioning (compacting the middle of the park), and ai, to a point it leans way further to the realistic side.

Speaking of ai, and gameplay etc. ..I am convinced we are all playing a different pes2021 lol... meaning we are all using different settings, patches etc.. im on vanilla exe, but using evoweb patch + klashman tactics (both having some effect on edit file and team settings/tactics), and probably one of the biggest factors is my own style of play... here is my version of Newcastle vs Arsenal:


a few bad decisions defensively, player positioning wise.. but not much lumping it forward. I think this also has a lot to do with the way one defends .. ie. calling 2nd player in .. and anticipating passing lanes... There were a few long shots from ai which was nice. Only played one half :)
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I play fixed cursor exclusively so the ability the AI to be a competent opponent as well as a competent teammates are arguably the most important aspects in regards to what makes my experience a fulfilling one. I've said it many times that my experience in PES is always going to be very different than most players for that reason.

PES 2021 has a lot of good things about it. It's for that exact reason that AIs weaknesses stand out more. And given how heavily I rely on the AI to get enjoyment out my preferred style of play, yeah I will talk about the AI and I will talk about player switching and I will talk about the games incessant need to force 1v1s as opposed to team defending. Or at least I used to. Quite frequently.

The game has fundamental flaws and straight up lacks logic for one fundamental aspect of football. That isn't new. Same flaws exist in 2017 and 2019. But they're exacerbated by improvements to player movement and weight. But also held back by an ever increasingly passive AI. There's no patch, mod, or tactical scheme that can eliminate that.

Mechanically, I think PES 2021 is brilliant. Very good game on the ball. But without a good AI to go along with it, I'm akin to a kid playing in the park alone lol.

I'm happy you enjoy it, honestly. I want nothing more than my community to enjoy this game. Because at the end of the day, that's why we are here.
 
normazimuth said:
If anything, I'd say they changed the gameplay for the better. I always preferred the PS4 version and just never liked the PC version at all because I always felt the strength of the script much more strongly on PC. But I played 3 matches when the latest update came out on PC and I quite enjoyed them.

I don't know why they'd do that though. If anything, I would have expected them to deliberately make the game worse to try to force everyone over to their eFootball fiasco.
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I was wondering the same thing the other day. @DevPlays shared his theory and it makes a lot of sense. Go to post #1421 to see his comment. They might have been using PES 21 as a "beta" for new GP they are planning on implementing into Efootball 22.
 
aderow said:
I play fixed cursor exclusively so the ability the AI to be a competent opponent as well as a competent teammates are arguably the most important aspects in regards to what makes my experience a fulfilling one. I've said it many times that my experience in PES is always going to be very different than most players for that reason.

PES 2021 has a lot of good things about it. It's for that exact reason that AIs weaknesses stand out more. And given how heavily I rely on the AI to get enjoyment out my preferred style of play, yeah I will talk about the AI and I will talk about player switching and I will talk about the games incessant need to force 1v1s as opposed to team defending. Or at least I used to. Quite frequently.

The game has fundamental flaws and straight up lacks logic for one fundamental aspect of football. That isn't new. Same flaws exist in 2017 and 2019. But they're exacerbated by improvements to player movement and weight. But also held back by an ever increasingly passive AI. There's no patch, mod, or tactical scheme that can eliminate that.

Mechanically, I think PES 2021 is brilliant. Very good game on the ball. But without a good AI to go along with it, I'm akin to a kid playing in the park alone lol.

I'm happy you enjoy it, honestly. I want nothing more than my community to enjoy this game. Because at the end of the day, that's why we are here.
Click to expand...
Yep totally understand that AI needs to be top notch in fixed cursor mode... and the shortcomings would definitely be more noticeable. I may give this a go over the next couple of days. Is the AI any different from playing fixed cursor to normal p1 mode???

Still on AI, obviously we want the teams to play more like themselves as well as having better positional structure with tighter lines etc, but for me a huge upgrade would to have the players like Messi etc dribbling way more.. and being almost impossible to dispossess whilst trying to burst through 3-4 players... Have there actually been any PES's that have had crazy good dribblers taking on 3-4 players at a time???
If only modders like Holland could access some secret code that gives the players the desire and ability to just run rings, take on multiple players at a time, and accurately shoot on goal.... that'd be amazing.
 
Hayes said:
If someone could make ai more dribbling and fix midfield paramater ( too much space in midfield ) this game would be much much better, sadly no gameplay mod have achieved that.
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I play full manual on legend level with game speed set to -2.

Believe me, too much midfield space won't be an issue anymore. It looks and feels like football more than any other game ever did.
 
philla said:
I play full manual on legend level with game speed set to -2.

Believe me, too much midfield space won't be an issue anymore. It looks and feels like football more than any other game ever did.
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Manual isn't my thing mate especially with Legend & -2 Speed :SHOCK:. Even if it's "fix" midfield space, no AI dribbling can't be fixed.
 
aussiepesfan said:
Yep totally understand that AI needs to be top notch in fixed cursor mode... and the shortcomings would definitely be more noticeable. I may give this a go over the next couple of days. Is the AI any different from playing fixed cursor to normal p1 mode???

Still on AI, obviously we want the teams to play more like themselves as well as having better positional structure with tighter lines etc, but for me a huge upgrade would to have the players like Messi etc dribbling way more.. and being almost impossible to dispossess whilst trying to burst through 3-4 players... Have there actually been any PES's that have had crazy good dribblers taking on 3-4 players at a time???
If only modders like Holland could access some secret code that gives the players the desire and ability to just run rings, take on multiple players at a time, and accurately shoot on goal.... that'd be amazing.
Click to expand...
The issue with the tighter lines, midfield etc will require a pretty major change in the way the gameplay is constructed unfortunately. The positioning is programmed based more on tactics and zones than it is on where the ball is. Passing lanes are never going to be blocked appropriately until this is fixed. It’s a huge, fundamental issue.

Another, is the way CPU defenders follow attacking runs all the time. They’re consistently creating loads of space and splitting those lines even further apart in the process. It’s not just the lines either, it’s the actual space between positions. So LB and CB for example, their zones on the pitch are mapped too far apart, until the mapping changes there’s no real way to condense things enough.
 
aussiepesfan said:
Yep totally understand that AI needs to be top notch in fixed cursor mode... and the shortcomings would definitely be more noticeable. I may give this a go over the next couple of days. Is the AI any different from playing fixed cursor to normal p1 mode???
Click to expand...
Think of it like participating in a CPU v CPU match. Does the AI play differently? Probably. The AI will react differently to a human player because a human player doesn't typically play like the AI would. If that makes sense.
aussiepesfan said:
Still on AI, obviously we want the teams to play more like themselves as well as having better positional structure with tighter lines etc, but for me a huge upgrade would to have the players like Messi etc dribbling way more.. and being almost impossible to dispossess whilst trying to burst through 3-4 players... Have there actually been any PES's that have had crazy good dribblers taking on 3-4 players at a time???
If only modders like Holland could access some secret code that gives the players the desire and ability to just run rings, take on multiple players at a time, and accurately shoot on goal.... that'd be amazing.
Click to expand...
I've seen it occasionally. Individual moments of brilliance was something I really enjoyed in 2017. I still see them occasionally in 2021.

Here's Hazard showing a bit of it


I edited all my central mids so they can shoot a bit more from distance so this happens occasionally (a lot of shooting animations are slow so they get interrupted more often than not)


Honestly the best clip I have off a player going on a run and scoring was actually from 2020


I don't really anticipate much from Konami going forward since their emphasis is clearly online and competitive play. A proactive AI takes away from that.
 
aderow said:
I've seen it occasionally. Individual moments of brilliance was something I really enjoyed in 2017. I still see them occasionally in 2021.
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Nice clips 👍
Ive had quite a few of these.. The cut in from flank, avoiding tackles and then shooting on goal. Definitely need more of this.. Particularly more from central area just outside box.. And need more special dribbling moves like step overs, roulette etc.. And typical messi quick sudden change in direction. Ive been playing in superstar.. Will try Legend to see if anything has changed ai dribbling-wise on that difficulty.

Interesting things ive seen re new vanilla 1.07.02, is the ai defenders (if nobody in front of them or pressured) will occasionally bomb/sprint up field.. Never seen this before.. Normally they just pass it up field (they stil usually do). I think i had an example of this in one of my clips posted above.

Also, just last night realised i still had Hollands Foul folder still 'activated' in sider... I mentioned i was getting (still am) heaps of fouls... Ill try deactivating this to see how vanilla plays without this. I forgot to turn this off as it came with that latest Holland WS mod. Obviously the exe updated with the konami update, and Hollands latest mod also used default datafile 18 (dt18), so naturally i thought everything except my editfile (eveweb+klasman tactics) was default.
 
Anth James said:
The issue with the tighter lines, midfield etc will require a pretty major change in the way the gameplay is constructed unfortunately. The positioning is programmed based more on tactics and zones than it is on where the ball is. Passing lanes are never going to be blocked appropriately until this is fixed. It’s a huge, fundamental issue.

Another, is the way CPU defenders follow attacking runs all the time. They’re consistently creating loads of space and splitting those lines even further apart in the process. It’s not just the lines either, it’s the actual space between positions. So LB and CB for example, their zones on the pitch are mapped too far apart, until the mapping changes there’s no real way to condense things enough.
Click to expand...
aderow said:
Think of it like participating in a CPU v CPU match. Does the AI play differently? Probably. The AI will react differently to a human player because a human player doesn't typically play like the AI would. If that makes sense.

I've seen it occasionally. Individual moments of brilliance was something I really enjoyed in 2017. I still see them occasionally in 2021.

Here's Hazard showing a bit of it


I edited all my central mids so they can shoot a bit more from distance so this happens occasionally (a lot of shooting animations are slow so they get interrupted more often than not)


Honestly the best clip I have off a player going on a run and scoring was actually from 2020


I don't really anticipate much from Konami going forward since their emphasis is clearly online and competitive play. A proactive AI takes away from that.
Click to expand...
aussiepesfan said:
Nice clips 👍
Ive had quite a few of these.. The cut in from flank, avoiding tackles and then shooting on goal. Definitely need more of this.. Particularly more from central area just outside box.. And need more special dribbling moves like step overs, roulette etc.. And typical messi quick sudden change in direction. Ive been playing in superstar.. Will try Legend to see if anything has changed ai dribbling-wise on that difficulty.

Interesting things ive seen re new vanilla 1.07.02, is the ai defenders (if nobody in front of them or pressured) will occasionally bomb/sprint up field.. Never seen this before.. Normally they just pass it up field (they stil usually do). I think i had an example of this in one of my clips posted above.

Also, just last night realised i still had Hollands Foul folder still 'activated' in sider... I mentioned i was getting (still am) heaps of fouls... Ill try deactivating this to see how vanilla plays without this. I forgot to turn this off as it came with that latest Holland WS mod. Obviously the exe updated with the konami update, and Hollands latest mod also used default datafile 18 (dt18), so naturally i thought everything except my editfile (eveweb+klasman tactics) was default.
Click to expand...
I'd suggest you guys to use this dt18 -> Click Here
Why? Because,
1. This dt18 is based on the initial release of PES 2021 (back in September of 2020). Initial or first few dt18 were great until they (Konami) ruined it later on.
2. Modified the Defensive Line (Higher DF Line).
3. Less superhuman goalies
4. No changes in other good things like the Ball Physics etc... Also in rain, ball will no longer will be as slow as usual PES 2021 (more realism, right?)
and a few more changes for good.

PS :- I'm using this dt18 mod with Default 1.07.02 exe (previously used 1.07.01 before the exe's new release) in combination with modified post-match player ratings system ported from Liberty gameplay and new experimental injury values (experimented by me).
 
aussiepesfan said:
Ive had quite a few of these.. The cut in from flank, avoiding tackles and then shooting on goal. Definitely need more of this.. Particularly more from central area just outside box.. And need more special dribbling moves like step overs, roulette etc.. And typical messi quick sudden change in direction. Ive been playing in superstar.. Will try Legend to see if anything has changed ai dribbling-wise on that difficulty.
Click to expand...

Are stepovers even in this game? lol I don't think I've ever seen the AI do one before. AI doesn't drive towards goal anywhere nearly enough I agree.

aussiepesfan said:
Interesting things ive seen re new vanilla 1.07.02, is the ai defenders (if nobody in front of them or pressured) will occasionally bomb/sprint up field.. Never seen this before.. Normally they just pass it up field (they stil usually do). I think i had an example of this in one of my clips posted above.
Click to expand...

Really? I've seen my CBs do that for a while now. A lil too much at times lol. Last week I got annoyed because my CB dribbled almost half into the opposition half and then lost the ball lol
 
After so many years tinkering with PES editing, never once it cross my mind to put sider in the removable HDD and this morning I made the experiment attempt, boom, it lags slightly at the start of the game but overall I could say it was pretty smooth running. Why didn't I think about this idea... though Juce himself actually have mentioned that sider is completely independent from the game folder, that should have been a big hint. Anyway, enough from this old man. Just happy that I could put all the sider contents into the removable HDD which alleviate storage pressure from my main SSD OS drive.
 
Actually I do not really know what they have changed but one match in superstar difficult has been enought to realise how good is this new vanilla gameplay. It feels so much more smooth, IA now plays different trying to pass around the ground with nice skills and nice teamplays, before was 7/10 long pass, now it feel they play like a real team. General improvements in the movements of the players, more variaty of attacks by IA, more challengues in 1v1. In general feels like a real improvement and a base to keep developping for gameplay modes to improve it. Maybe I still feel lack of more dribbling and position of the players when you are passing the ball to make "triangles passes" instead of passes ahead but it feels nicer overall.
 
aderow said:
Are stepovers even in this game? lol I don't think I've ever seen the AI do one before. AI doesn't drive towards goal anywhere nearly enough I agree.
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lol that's a good take. I never saw it either. I think the last time i saw AI doing step over it was back in PES 2015. It was neymar. AI in PES 2015 doing more skills than PES 2020/21. Sadly konami keep downgrading AI skills everytime new version comes out, PES 2019 was probably the last one.

This is from my PES 2017 video


 
Ive definitely seen the "ai attacking cpu" doing more tricker stuff in pes2021 than in clips above... mostly with the dribbler pulling the ball to the side and then forward around my defender (the one you push left or right on controller before pushing forward). Ill find a clip. Also i see alot of fake shot moves to change directions...
Although i havent seen a step over in ages (cannot remember seeing this performed in any PES game via the cpu), a few days ago, i did see the ai do a roulette move... I havent seen the cpu do that in a while. I do think it has to do with individual players.. those who have those special moves etc... but again, id love to see Messi/Ronaldo (of old) really take over and directly take on a mass of players...
 
Come on mate, i would love to see that, just take a look at first clip, pes 2020/21 ai rarely using that trick.

What im trying to say is, pes 20/21 ai is still doing skill moves like fake shot or whatever. It's just compare to older pes, pes 20/21 ai rarely do that.

Hate to say this, but efootball 22 ai ( v1.0) has better and doing more skill moves than pes 21/20. Too bad game run like crap.

If only someone could do his magic and convert to pes 21, that would be great. But yeah a man can dream, i dont think anyone can do that, lol.
 
aussiepesfan said:
Nice clips 👍
Ive had quite a few of these.. The cut in from flank, avoiding tackles and then shooting on goal. Definitely need more of this.. Particularly more from central area just outside box.. And need more special dribbling moves like step overs, roulette etc.. And typical messi quick sudden change in direction. Ive been playing in superstar.. Will try Legend to see if anything has changed ai dribbling-wise on that difficulty.

Interesting things ive seen re new vanilla 1.07.02, is the ai defenders (if nobody in front of them or pressured) will occasionally bomb/sprint up field.. Never seen this before.. Normally they just pass it up field (they stil usually do). I think i had an example of this in one of my clips posted above.

Also, just last night realised i still had Hollands Foul folder still 'activated' in sider... I mentioned i was getting (still am) heaps of fouls... Ill try deactivating this to see how vanilla plays without this. I forgot to turn this off as it came with that latest Holland WS mod. Obviously the exe updated with the konami update, and Hollands latest mod also used default datafile 18 (dt18), so naturally i thought everything except my editfile (eveweb+klasman tactics) was default.
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Hey man, have you tested vanilla without the holland foul Cpk?

I like it a lot but did the opposite yesterday and added the holland foul cpk. I did see more fouls, only other thing I noticed though it seems the AI shielded the ball better? Might be placebo , but other then that, didn’t notice too much.

Wanted to get your thoughts.
 
Hayes said:
Come on mate, i would love to see that, just take a look at first clip, pes 2020/21 ai rarely using that trick.

What im trying to say is, pes 20/21 ai is still doing skill moves like fake shot or whatever. It's just compare to older pes, pes 20/21 ai rarely do that.

Hate to say this, but efootball 22 ai ( v1.0) has better and doing more skill moves than pes 21/20. Too bad game run like crap.

If only someone could do his magic and convert to pes 21, that would be great. But yeah a man can dream, i dont think anyone can do that, lol.
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Never say never ;)
 
guorfan said:
Well pes 6 has 15 years now since release and is still the most moddeable pes of all times... pes 21 is the next pes 6
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I was specifically talking about converting efootball 22 gameplay to pes 21, but yeah that's ok.

Next pes 6 is pes 2013, then you have pes 2017 then pes 21. So pes 21 is more like pes 6 3.0. These 3 games will never die.
 
DevPlays said:
I'd suggest you guys to use this dt18 -> Click Here
Why? Because,
1. This dt18 is based on the initial release of PES 2021 (back in September of 2020). Initial or first few dt18 were great until they (Konami) ruined it later on.
2. Modified the Defensive Line (Higher DF Line).
3. Less superhuman goalies
4. No changes in other good things like the Ball Physics etc... Also in rain, ball will no longer will be as slow as usual PES 2021 (more realism, right?)
and a few more changes for good.

PS :- I'm using this dt18 mod with Default 1.07.02 exe (previously used 1.07.01 before the exe's new release) in combination with modified post-match player ratings system ported from Liberty gameplay and new experimental injury values (experimented by me).
Click to expand...
Hey there, tried that dt18 (used sider version, because the cpk version hung my game in load screen) but I didnt really notice much difference im afraid. Maybe i needed to re-verify my files via steam and then input it. Anyways, i may try this again later..

In the meantime (1 hour ago), I went back to using just the regular vanilla exe.... after doing a re-verify via steam, which only renewed the system file in the Konami save folder. I also continued using Holland's Fouls (sider module from his World Soccer mod) - which definitely increases the fouls to an awesome level. Tried with and without, and it definitely makes the vanilla version better in terms of physicality and more easy fouls. Either way, im having a blast on full manual, superstar, 20mins.... This game is kinda on steroids with this new vanilla+fouls (maybe the re-verify also makes things better). Just had a game (played only a half) which included an awesome long ranger from the cpu, and then i scored a first time long ranger at the other end. Cpu attemped a heap of shots outside the box.. when given time. Key factor for this could be the team/player that I was up against?? .. Palmeiras

Anyways, here is the clip (just wished i recorded in real time):

 
Hayes said:
I was specifically talking about converting efootball 22 gameplay to pes 21, but yeah that's ok.

Next pes 6 is pes 2013, then you have pes 2017 then pes 21. So pes 21 is more like pes 6 3.0. These 3 games will never die.
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I was still going back and forth between pes5/6 and all the pes's from 10-18...
Then when pes19 or 20 came out, I had no more desire to go back. I would even go back to playing pes14 (or we14sa on ps3 as well as the first 2 demos) every now and then. Now im content playing pes2021, which is definitely my new pes6 so to speak. I need to see how many hours ive spent on this game.... surely its the pes ive put the most hours in.. and a lot of this is contributed to the mods as well. Ive gotten to the point where ive actually deleted many of my pes 5/6-20 files from my pc....
 
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