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eFootball PES 2021 Discussion Thread (CONSOLES)

darkoj2007 said:
Last night I played some exibithion games with dp4 and yeah game feels different now in a better way! For me the most obvious change is variety in cpu attacking, it feels so different now that game actually become much more enjoyable. There is no long balls to striker all the time, cpu is trying to break your defence in different ways now and make matches much more enjoyable. Don`t know if League/Master league feels better but if cpu attacks like this then I am eager to start ML and see where it goes. Yeah scripting will be there but I am in for the challenge! My experience was fuma, 20 min, top player.
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I also noticed the ai playing somewhat more creatively in regards to build up. I just wish that the Ai would use more skills and finesse dribbling near the 18 yard back box.
 
Its definitly difference in dp4 after just playing 2 games. To the better...i think. AI playing more varied and a lot more movement from teammates, which makes it more fluid. Feels a lot faster. My concern is it will feel a bit too fast.....AI play more varied but i noticed they play a lot one touch passes, specially around penalty area which can cause problem for changing cursor in defence. I enjoyed the experience, just hope i Will in the long run as well.
 
I must say I enjoy pes even more after latest dp. Exibithion games are really wonderful, every game is different against ai. I started ML with Ajax and I struggle with team spirit and this is where scripting comes to life. If team spirit is gone it will be like playing league with transfers but that makes the game difficult! Game is playable level now and will keep me occupied until new pes comes out!
 
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After playing more, I've noticed some different things.
Conceded a goal last night like I haven't before. AI played a ball, the striker was with my defender, but he took it down with a little header, while still on the run, took a touch, beat me for pace and buried it. I watched the replay about 5 times, it was a quality goal and 1 I've never seen the AI do before.

ML 1st season really is a struggle. I've found if I basically write it off, concentrate on building a squad, you can then be competitive start of the 2nd season.
 
darkoj2007 said:
Last night I played some exibithion games with dp4 and yeah game feels different now in a better way! For me the most obvious change is variety in cpu attacking, it feels so different now that game actually become much more enjoyable. There is no long balls to striker all the time, cpu is trying to break your defence in different ways now and make matches much more enjoyable. Don`t know if League/Master league feels better but if cpu attacks like this then I am eager to start ML and see where it goes. Yeah scripting will be there but I am in for the challenge! My experience was fuma, 20 min, top player.
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It depends on which team you play against and if they have short pass or long pass as team tactics.If they have long pass then they still play too many long passes and it feels repetitive.And most of them aren't even good passes.It's like they're just trying to get rid of the ball and looks dumb.They really have to improve this team tactics shit for next gen version for the new game and put more variety in there.

But in general i can still enjoy the game playing mostly online and some offline exhibition matches from time to time.At least with online you don't see so many AI bullshit since you're playing against a human.This game will keep me interested until the new one comes out..but it's a fact that many things must improve in all areas.I don't expect a miracle in the first year of next gen version so i'm not super hyped,but i'm sure it will be better at some things and will keep improving as i think that the game becomes a bit better year by year from 15 and after,at least for my liking.

@slamsoze I'm glad i'm not the only one who thought that this ML manager looks a lot like Willem Dafoe.I had the exact same thought when i first saw him in the game.He looks like his brother or something lol. :LOL:
 
abcdefg1 said:
After playing more, I've noticed some different things.
Conceded a goal last night like I haven't before. AI played a ball, the striker was with my defender, but he took it down with a little header, while still on the run, took a touch, beat me for pace and buried it. I watched the replay about 5 times, it was a quality goal and 1 I've never seen the AI do before.

ML 1st season really is a struggle. I've found if I basically write it off, concentrate on building a squad, you can then be competitive start of the 2nd season.
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Hey just a tip. while on gameplan, try to make substitution, you will see auto select by pressing r3 button. This will increase team chemistry but will choose other players, which are more familiar with formation you use and roles they have in the team. I had the same problem as you but use that line up as starting point. I struggled with Ajax until read somewhere on the net about this tip and really help me. Now I will build on this, first win increased chemistry and some of the players get more respect after first win which boost the confidence of the players and now I enjoy it a lot. Lower ranked teams are no problem to beat even on top player, full manual. Enjoy :)
 
Flipper the Priest said:
Hmm, maybe just coincidence but in my first dalliance with DP4 the CPU was very, very direct. Constant long balls.
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What difficulty level, out of interest? I find so much of the AI play depends on that (which makes them a bit of a farce, because it's always a case of "harder difficulty = AI just does the one thing that guarantees goals because it's the exploit of the engine, so why play any other way unless it's to purposefully lose").

Manual seems to impact the pass accuracy of the AI too, although I just have to face facts and say I don't find manual much fun, no matter how hard I try to force myself to enjoy it.
 
Chris Davies said:
AI just does the one thing that guarantees goals because it's the exploit of the engine, so why play any other way unless it's to purposefully lose
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It's not even that in most cases.They just follow team tactics way too strict and most of their long passes aren't even good enough so you just get the ball back easily.For example i was playing against Chile and they were playing a 3-5-2 and had Alexis Sanchez up front with some other guy.They were obviously set to play long pass because they were spamming the long ball way too much but most of the balls were aimed for shorty Alexis so my defender won every header.They weren't even long balls to space so he can beat me with speed or something,they were just straight to him so i could win the ball back easily every time.Although if a team is set to play short pass then you can see some very nice plays from them with more variety and unpredictability.One other thing that may play a role in this are the individual player traits.I have seen that some defenders have the Long Ball Expert trait so they're probably looking to play many long balls even if the team is set to play short pass for example.

I'm talking about Superstar and PA1 combination by the way which i always play.On manual it is a fact that it impacts the cpu passing also.The ball moves a bit slower and have a more loose feel if you pay attention.But i also don't find manual realistic enough when i play and the fact that it gives a feel that stats don't matter much and it's all about your aim with the stick and you have to be very presice even for easy passes with worldstar players which should be a piece of cake for them.So i just stick with PA1 which i find good enough with realistic error where it needs to be like passes with bad body position etc,although a semi-manual option in there would be interesting to have.
 
Manual passing is a huge learning curve. I've just started a ML with Schalke and I'm struggling 😂
 
Chris Davies said:
What difficulty level, out of interest? I find so much of the AI play depends on that (which makes them a bit of a farce, because it's always a case of "harder difficulty = AI just does the one thing that guarantees goals because it's the exploit of the engine, so why play any other way unless it's to purposefully lose").

Manual seems to impact the pass accuracy of the AI too, although I just have to face facts and say I don't find manual much fun, no matter how hard I try to force myself to enjoy it.
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What's the second highest one? Superstar? That. And on manual passing and shooting. I'm not sure if that's considered full manual?

Man City played football. Made me think it could be tactics settings ie attention paid to the big teams but all the other jobber teams just get the thoughtless hoofball!

Maybe something that can be overcome by 1,458 hours of editing tactics (wiped at the next datapack).
 
I had 2-3 relatively fair-feeling games on myClub tonight. Then all of a sudden, absolute knobbers, one after the other. Nothing but instant first-time passes that are impossible to stop because of the response times when playing online, and 3-1-6 formations.

Question...

When playing these guys and winning the ball by holding X / A, they win the ball back again INSTANTLY before I can even move off with possession. Anyone know how they do that?

The best way I can describe it is that I tackle, my "tackling" animation and his "stumble after being tackled" animation play out, but before my player reaches the ball (even when you wouldn't think it was loose), they've already got up, have ran to the ball and got possession back.

How? I need to be able to fight fire with fire.
 
darkoj2007 said:
Hey just a tip. while on gameplan, try to make substitution, you will see auto select by pressing r3 button. This will increase team chemistry but will choose other players, which are more familiar with formation you use and roles they have in the team. I had the same problem as you but use that line up as starting point. I struggled with Ajax until read somewhere on the net about this tip and really help me. Now I will build on this, first win increased chemistry and some of the players get more respect after first win which boost the confidence of the players and now I enjoy it a lot. Lower ranked teams are no problem to beat even on top player, full manual. Enjoy :)
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My trouble is I'm ruthless and end up selling half the squad I inherit and buying new players. Chemistry goes to about 55 and its a right slog 😑
 
Played my first match in idk how long. Hopped back into my test save with Lyon. This time I played on professional (ML fixed cursor).

Beat Montpellier 3-1. Conceded from a defensive blunder, instantly responded with a genuinely decent goal. Second goal came in a bit of a bad scramble after a corner. Goal 3 was another defensive blunder.

I don't know what to make of it honestly. I like the tempo and the physics. I like there every touch, pass, and shot isn't perfect.

I don't like turning a defender only to have him catch me in 2 steps. As much as this game has tried to add physicality, the refs call more fouls than when James Harden has the ball in his hands. That was a shame from the match I played; good hard challenges went unrewarded.

The AI....is wonky at best. But it may well be salvageable at lower difficulties. I think I might try regular next. Maybe tomorrow night.

Chris Davies said:
Manual seems to impact the pass accuracy of the AI too, although I just have to face facts and say I don't find manual much fun, no matter how hard I try to force myself to enjoy it.
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I get that. I switched to manual passing a while ago but I couldn't stick with manual shooting. It doesn't like the player cam at all.
 
Chris Davies said:
Manual seems to impact the pass accuracy of the AI too, although I just have to face facts and say I don't find manual much fun, no matter how hard I try to force myself to enjoy it.
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There was a time when i convinced myself that the TRUE Pes gameplay was manual gameplay. But it's obvious it isn't. AI mates react even more slowly to manual passing, it becomes a chore to play, even after you mastered manual.

Pes gameplay is developed with passing assistance at 1 and that is how it needs to be played to enjoy it the most.
 
Ameppe said:
There was a time when i convinced myself that the TRUE Pes gameplay was manual gameplay. But it's obvious it isn't. AI mates react even more slowly to manual passing, it becomes a chore to play, even after you mastered manual.

Pes gameplay is developed with passing assistance at 1 and that is how it needs to be played to enjoy it the most.
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On a similar note - I really love the advanced through balls, but what I've experienced is that almost every single time I try to use them, by the time you've positioned the aimer and the player actually kicks the ball... You've been easily tackled. So frustrating.

I wish there was a "semi-assisted" option in every case. With shooting, I want to be able to aim for a corner without kicking the ball to the corner flag - but still be punished if I pull the stick a little too far wide. "Basic" doesn't feel like that to me, it feels like no matter your input, you either it hit towards the keeper or miss in the exact same place every time.

The whole game is rigid, and basic, when not playing on manual. But then, on manual, I can't do certain real-life passing moves around the box because of how slow every pass and (crucially) every receiving-the-ball animation is. But then, it's the same on basic, really.
 
Chris Davies said:
On a similar note - I really love the advanced through balls, but what I've experienced is that almost every single time I try to use them, by the time you've positioned the aimer and the player actually kicks the ball... You've been easily tackled. So frustrating.

I wish there was a "semi-assisted" option in every case. With shooting, I want to be able to aim for a corner without kicking the ball to the corner flag - but still be punished if I pull the stick a little too far wide. "Basic" doesn't feel like that to me, it feels like no matter your input, you either it hit towards the keeper or miss in the exact same place every time.

The whole game is rigid, and basic, when not playing on manual. But then, on manual, I can't do certain real-life passing moves around the box because of how slow every pass and (crucially) every receiving-the-ball animation is. But then, it's the same on basic, really.
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same happens on my side with advanced through balls. I love the freedom but almost every time I am dispossesed by ai and I think maybe I should plan that through ball one step before. btw L2 and triangle is even freer in my opinion.
 
Chris Davies said:
When playing these guys and winning the ball by holding X / A, they win the ball back again INSTANTLY before I can even move off with possession. Anyone know how they do that?

The best way I can describe it is that I tackle, my "tackling" animation and his "stumble after being tackled" animation play out, but before my player reaches the ball (even when you wouldn't think it was loose), they've already got up, have ran to the ball and got possession back.

How? I need to be able to fight fire with fire.
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It's just scripting. You win the ball most of the time when it's on your side, and you lose the ball most of the time when not. In the latter case, the only way to have a chance to win the match is staying as far away as possible from the opponents players because otherwise you will invariably lose the ball.
 
Played some more. Five games, one star against one star, two star versus two star, etc. Superstar, 10 minute games, manual passing and shooting.

Lo and behold, the AI did seem more varied. In two of the five games the CPU didn't play that long pass through the middle, CB to CF. So there was either something in the water today, or the other day when I played it.

However... Oh me, it's dull. Clunky and attritional. The aggregate score was 5-1 overall. And the solidarity CPU goal was a massive deflection (sCrIpTiNg) at that. I only conceded 12 shots on goal!

I'm not an arcade man. Goals, tempo and shots aren't my currency. But I'd expect variety. Just one of those five games (10, including the ones I played earlier in the week) to be a ding dong, handbrake-off, swashbuckling, flowing (with plenty of time for some ebb) match. There's room for turgid games in football - real and digital - as it accentuates the positive, but give me... something, fun now and then.

There's some good in there, no doubt. I took great pleasure in some of the manual passing. But...

Chris Davies said:
But then, on manual, I can't do certain real-life passing moves around the box because of how slow every pass and (crucially) every receiving-the-ball animation is. But then, it's the same on basic, really.
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This. Moving the ball into the final third can be a joy. After that you're wrestling with the controller and your temper, begging for responsiveness.

There might be an answer, a knack to making the game one I can enjoy. But as I've stated previously, I've little interest in tinkering. Konami and EA managed to produce 20 years' worth of fine football games right out the box. Sliders and stats were there to tailor, not salvage.

Don't construe this frustration for hatred. More what might have been, could changes be made which I presume are within Konami's reach.
 
abcdefg1 said:
Manual passing is a huge learning curve. I've just started a ML with Schalke and I'm struggling 😂
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Definitely easier in PES 2021 though as your teammates at the "receiving" end of the pass will adjust their position and come closer to the ball as opposed to PES 2020 where this happened way less often.
Manual shooting is a totally different beast to master at least for me, as the goal won't move to compensate your aim being wrong.
 
Question to anyone that has progressed a lot in his ML and studies how the CL/EL seedings work per season. How does the game treat the teams that are leftovers of the previous Covid-Season teams like Xamax, Aves, Charlton, etc..Do they ever randomly picked for EL or CL qualifications, or they kept ingored forever?

I am really torturin my self what to do with those teams, build their original counterparts, create classic teams over them, get them to play in PEU league, let them stay in Others Europe. They are a lot this time, 20 fake teams and unfortunatelly they are connected stricktly to Live Update state, meaning that every update they revert to their status aka 23 players.

Example of the project i have in mind: Over the 4 Italian fake clubs, i want to build Piemonde Caclio (FIFA version), Roma FC (FIFA version), Milano RN (PES version) and Lombardia NA (PES version) , all with their own homemade kits... :)

Constantly having the usual headaches, about wtf to do with the PEU league, dont want to build solo BL, neither Greek Super League. It was a chance this year , if we could have an additional Customable league in European section with a 2nd division, even an old school 16 clubs in 1st division+ 8 clubs in 2nd division.. Totally lost chance to solve this eternal issue about having the proper Bundesliga and an additional league of everyone's personal taste... :( :THINK:
 
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Them teams never get selected in any European Competitions. It's basically the same 'other Euro' teams that start off in season 1 in ML in Europe, that go into every one after.

But unrealistic but better than a load of random fake teams and cos them other Euros teams make up a small number of the teams in each competition, you don't really notice it.
 
Just had another session (playing as Newcastle on Top Player). Beat Arsenal 2-0 - biggest victory so far this season - and then, FA Cup round one, was getting beat 4-0 by Bournemouth (from the league below) when I turned off the console in disgust.

Now, I don't believe in "scripting" really. But this entire game, it was horribly obvious how handicapped and "laggy" my players were. Every time I got the ball to a striker, it took so long for him to control it, and turn to face the goal, that he was dispossessed every single time. (No sign of that vs Arsenal.)

For the final goal the AI scored, my keeper parried the ball to my defender, who was locked on a path walking (not running) into the net. Not close to the goal line - about five yards away.

He was walking, with the ball FULLY under his control (not ahead of him), and as I'm furiously pulling the stick towards the corner flag (pressing no buttons, not holding sprint or anything), he just carried on walking until he was JUST ABOUT to cross the line.

I've played PES for a long time but I've never seen anything quite like this - (without any exaggeration, I genuinely thought this is what had happened) it was as if the controller had lost connection to the console and "locked" the player running in one direction.

I pressed "pass" in a panic, while still holding the direction towards the corner flag, and he did a 180 turn to place the ball directly to the opposition striker, who hit the ball at about 100mph past the keeper who was just stood watching (the single realistic thing about this entire sequence).

That's it. That's me done. Fuck this game - fuck FIFA - fuck football games. How the hell are they all so badly broken? It's unreal. More than anything, I'm just so sad, and tired of trying to find a game to "make do". And Football Manager just doesn't scratch the itch.
 
I can relate, Chris. Last two-three years I had to have a drink every time I had a cup match coming in ML and I was playing on professional. Every single Cup match was like difficulty was suddenly ramped up to superstar in the background.
I especially remember one time where I somehow managed to win 1-4 in first leg. Second leg, home ground - I was battered 0-6.
And like that - I had no control over the players, every time I took the ball - foul was called. Every free kick they had went into top corner, every ball bounced back to them, weak low shots were parried by my goalie - it was so obvious that it was insulting.
Whatever is driving this, whether its Team Spirit, scripting, or some other background drama creator - Master League last few years is simply unplayable long term, without ending in a hospital.
 
Flipper the Priest said:
However... Oh me, it's dull. Clunky and attritional. [...] I'm not an arcade man. Goals, tempo and shots aren't my currency. But I'd expect variety. Just one of those five games (10, including the ones I played earlier in the week) to be a ding dong, handbrake-off, swashbuckling, flowing (with plenty of time for some ebb) match. There's room for turgid games in football - real and digital - as it accentuates the positive, but give me... something, fun now and then.
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The thing with modern PES is that the engine only seems to have one "pace". Every game in 2021 is, IMO (on normal speed), slow, clunky, unresponsive and (as you said) there are a lot of games where you and your opponent have a single shot each.

I went back to PES 2018 last night, after reading some positivity about that (and I'm desperate at this point). Every game is 100mph (on normal speed). Responsiveness is pretty high, until the script kicked in.

Shoot me for saying this, as a sports game fan who resents others who say it, but. Take 2018, put it on -2 (which makes everything slow-mo, including response times and the ridiculous floating goalkeeper dives)... And that's 2021. But with a little more build-up from the AI.

I think my only hope may be setting up a Parsec (online gaming) server and paying people to take part in a PES 6 World Cup 98 with me, until the next batch of football games.

PES 2022 has a lot of work to do.
 
Chris Davies said:
Just had another session (playing as Newcastle on Top Player). Beat Arsenal 2-0 - biggest victory so far this season - and then, FA Cup round one, was getting beat 4-0 by Bournemouth (from the league below) when I turned off the console in disgust.

Now, I don't believe in "scripting" really. But this entire game, it was horribly obvious how handicapped and "laggy" my players were. Every time I got the ball to a striker, it took so long for him to control it, and turn to face the goal, that he was dispossessed every single time. (No sign of that vs Arsenal.)

For the final goal the AI scored, my keeper parried the ball to my defender, who was locked on a path walking (not running) into the net. Not close to the goal line - about five yards away.

He was walking, with the ball FULLY under his control (not ahead of him), and as I'm furiously pulling the stick towards the corner flag (pressing no buttons, not holding sprint or anything), he just carried on walking until he was JUST ABOUT to cross the line.

I've played PES for a long time but I've never seen anything quite like this - (without any exaggeration, I genuinely thought this is what had happened) it was as if the controller had lost connection to the console and "locked" the player running in one direction.

I pressed "pass" in a panic, while still holding the direction towards the corner flag, and he did a 180 turn to place the ball directly to the opposition striker, who hit the ball at about 100mph past the keeper who was just stood watching (the single realistic thing about this entire sequence).

That's it. That's me done. Fuck this game - fuck FIFA - fuck football games. How the hell are they all so badly broken? It's unreal. More than anything, I'm just so sad, and tired of trying to find a game to "make do". And Football Manager just doesn't scratch the itch.
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Nothing that bad has happened to me in 2020 or 2021 but I can totally picture it.

I, like you, don't really buy into scripting. Kinda. I do and I don't. Ultimately, the CPU has control over every outcome, and can't replicate the chaos of reality. It's about how well it's hidden. With the last two PESes, that's not very well at all. The difficulty level and Team Spirit makes a huge difference generally, making your players play like I used to at Sunday fives after a day of nursing a hangover and eating crisps. And when it's a game you're not supposed to win and they crank it up even further, it's unplayable.
 
Emroth said:
I can relate, Chris. Last two-three years I had to have a drink every time I had a cup match coming in ML and I was playing on professional. Every single Cup match was like difficulty was suddenly ramped up to superstar in the background.
I especially remember one time where I somehow managed to win 1-4 in first leg. Second leg, home ground - I was battered 0-6.
And like that - I had no control over the players, every time I took the ball - foul was called. Every free kick they had went into top corner, every ball bounced back to them, weak low shots were parried by my goalie - it was so obvious that it was insulting.
Whatever is driving this, whether its Team Spirit, scripting, or some other background drama creator - Master League last few years is simply unplayable long term, without ending in a hospital.
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I'm not ashamed to admit, But I refuse to be a prisoner or a victim of scripting. I am script survivor.

Whenever I have one of those games where I feel like the unwinnable bullshit starts creeping in, I simply reboot the game and restart the match.

Yeah call me paranoid but I feel it's like some kind of coding Russian roulette where you could play 3 fun, engaging games where it felt like you sucked right into the throes of the worlds greatest football simulator, than the 3rd game feels like all that control and responsive, all that agency and understanding you had adjusted and gotten accustomed to just gets absolutely destroyed in some kind of sick joke by the programmers like some kind of toxic senior prank.

It's like a racing game that flip-mirrors the steering controls in the 3rd race, Makes your brakes unresponsive and any minor clipping with another car sends you not only off the track but off the edge of the new flat earth and into the ether.

The handicap is seldom subtle and makes no sense, It just seems lazily extreme and is there to get an overreaction out of you because you're stubborn enough to keep playing because you refuse to be cheated out of the game. It's like continuing to play cards when you know the game is rigged, But damn if it isn't the only game in town...

Fuck that. I'm too old to convince myself I can beat this rigged engine for no recognition or nothing to prove for my burst open blood vessels.

I feel like among other things in not just football games but most games and their loot boxes being compared to a slot machine, When the scripting boogey monster comes into your fixture and decides to start twiddling knobs - I believe it's a matter of randomness, and you can simply restart and get a calmer game.

I refuse to dignify the script because it doesn't even try to be subtle and defeat-ble still like in older games. Here it just seems like being spat in the face by smirking jocks.
 
Sports gaming is just where I was afraid it would be when I was talking to a mate about it 5 years ago; the overpriotization of online at the expense of offline and thus gameplay overall.

I want to like the newer games. I tried (heck I'm kinda trying again). But it became abundantly clear that their attempts to make a better game made the game worse.

They slowed things down, they increased error in shooting and passing. But all that did was expose the aspect of gameplay that holds everything together. Something that impacts offline a lot more than offline. That's the AI.

When mistakes are more likely, when players are often laggy and movement is delayed, all of a sudden the issues that were covered up by high passing accuracy and roided up agility and acceleration become glaring.

The AI looks dumber because it isn't being bailed out by the game's mechanics anymore. Think about that. Konami essentially exposed themselves and their neglect of something so fundamentally essential to whatever experience they're trying to craft be it online or offline.

I'm not gonna mention everything I find to be lacking with the AI because I'm tired of mentioning it and I'm sure you're tired of reading it.

Logically though, that's gotta be the next thing they improve right?

I can't imagine they're making the next game from scratch which is shame tbf. I genuinely think that every decade? they should start from scratch. Maybe not the whole game, but significant fundamental aspects of it. And that's sports games in general not just PES.
 
abcdefg1 said:
Them teams never get selected in any European Competitions. It's basically the same 'other Euro' teams that start off in season 1 in ML in Europe, that go into every one after.

But unrealistic but better than a load of random fake teams and cos them other Euros teams make up a small number of the teams in each competition, you don't really notice it.
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Thanks pal. They don't even get selected instead of the relegated ones of their same nation I guess... Which in itself is a little pity. Imagine playing a Serie B and seeing three teams relegated at the end of the season and three other teams coming up even if there's no Serie C. It would be great.
 
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