Age old question but...so you feel stats play not part at all? On long passes, do stats have any effect? Or crossing?
eFootball PES 2020 Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox One)
- Thread starter Lami
- Start date
Age old question but...so you feel stats play not part at all? On long passes, do stats have any effect? Or crossing?
rockstrongo
Retired Footballer
Still a lot of messy stuff though.
Can't really like this game atm
Can't really like this game atm
Paynekiller
Premier League
- 14 June 2015
If I personally had any hope left for PES2020, the latest update destroyed it. It's unforgivable what the PES devs did (and didn't do) regarding Ai.
When they showcased the demo early last year the Ai showed some promise but now it's at the stage where it almost feels like they have sabotaged the Ai for offline/master league. The recent update has made the Ai feel headless chickens and that kills the sense of achievement when scoring against them.
rockstrongo
Retired Footballer
Yeah I was pumped up for the release,bought it digitally day one.
What a mistake.
Gave it a few games tonight,but I can't like it,it's a mess.
Went straight back to my 19 for a great 1-1 game away to Roma with my SPAL,though the pinned me down most of the game,they really never cheated me.
Such a good feeling,this game plays amazing on my league mode.
No way I'm touching Pes 20 again.
Player models/reaction time/dribbling/hits and impacts are a step down in 20.
Bonus is to see the ball roll past you or bad touches ruining your day..
A mess man
Paynekiller
Premier League
- 14 June 2015
Have PES18 and 19 currently Installed and I won't be uninstalling them anytime soon. For all of their little faults they are providing some thrilling matches against the Ai that PES2020 simply doesn't produce for me.
rockstrongo
Retired Footballer
I agree,I like Pes 18 too,a bit to tame (free kicks etc) but a fully playable ML.
Really solid game too.
My Pes 19 re discovery was a fluke to be honest.
Always knew games that had a lot of weird stuff in ML plays great on league mode.
Which team(s) do you use?
Paynekiller
Premier League
- 14 June 2015
A Liverpool fan but I sometimes use lower English league teams on manual just for a challenge.
To some degree yes, i can feel the difference between one of my rubbish players and good player in my ML - i think my point was its all down to user error on manual which has good points and bad points - good points in defense as i can lump it anywhere but bad points if you want a more realistic approach, example if when i can slightly move my thumb wrong a 90+ rated player misplaces a 10 yard pass
So, manual passing kept me playing for hour and a half last night...I actually thought, oh, yeah, this new freedom really does change the game.
woke up this morning for a quick 20 minute game and...dead. just felt stale again. The freedom of manual passing cant hide the fact this is a really bland pes, and really clunky too with dull mechanics. It has none of the personality that even pes 18 has, which at the time felt bland after pes 17, but now feels like pes 5 in comparison to pes 20. Theres just no grit and blood and sweat in the game.
I dont know, I just feel like game developers are run by a combination of money hungry execs and overgrown children (men mainly). They constantly iterate, without ever really bringing any new gameplay mechanics to the table...Im thinking metroid prime, certain zeldas, RE 4 and others. I havent played many games in my life but still, it's easy to see the utter stagnation in AAA gaming. Football games are just an extension of that now, it seems. ps2 pes and fifa 08-10 happened at a time where gameplay was still important across the board for developers. Now these two games reflect a gaming world where more graphics, more meaningless customisation are what seems to matter most. (A handful of exceptions exist, I agree).
I've just watched the latest cyberpunk gameplay. It looks terrible, uninspiring. Even if trailers shouldn't be taken as proof of the final game, it's incredible how that game has moved from something that seemed genuinely boundary pushing to another open world clone of shiny lights, empty streets, customisation screens and empty gameplay. I fear ghosts of tsushima is going the same way. Incredible graphics, empty world, tired gameplay.
I cannot remember being so uninterested in a new console generation. Part of me still believes konami have spent years slowly working on a ps5 masterpiece, but then nothing, absolutely nothing in their recent history, or the recent history of gaming suggests this is likely to be the case. The more likely scenario is a pes 11/14 type 'revolution' where we watch thinking "yeah, that kinda looks better and different, but hmm...not exactly what I was hoping for..."
woke up this morning for a quick 20 minute game and...dead. just felt stale again. The freedom of manual passing cant hide the fact this is a really bland pes, and really clunky too with dull mechanics. It has none of the personality that even pes 18 has, which at the time felt bland after pes 17, but now feels like pes 5 in comparison to pes 20. Theres just no grit and blood and sweat in the game.
I dont know, I just feel like game developers are run by a combination of money hungry execs and overgrown children (men mainly). They constantly iterate, without ever really bringing any new gameplay mechanics to the table...Im thinking metroid prime, certain zeldas, RE 4 and others. I havent played many games in my life but still, it's easy to see the utter stagnation in AAA gaming. Football games are just an extension of that now, it seems. ps2 pes and fifa 08-10 happened at a time where gameplay was still important across the board for developers. Now these two games reflect a gaming world where more graphics, more meaningless customisation are what seems to matter most. (A handful of exceptions exist, I agree).
I've just watched the latest cyberpunk gameplay. It looks terrible, uninspiring. Even if trailers shouldn't be taken as proof of the final game, it's incredible how that game has moved from something that seemed genuinely boundary pushing to another open world clone of shiny lights, empty streets, customisation screens and empty gameplay. I fear ghosts of tsushima is going the same way. Incredible graphics, empty world, tired gameplay.
I cannot remember being so uninterested in a new console generation. Part of me still believes konami have spent years slowly working on a ps5 masterpiece, but then nothing, absolutely nothing in their recent history, or the recent history of gaming suggests this is likely to be the case. The more likely scenario is a pes 11/14 type 'revolution' where we watch thinking "yeah, that kinda looks better and different, but hmm...not exactly what I was hoping for..."
- Staff
- #10,661
I watched @Matt10's video - which is excellent - but within five minutes you've got players stumbling into each other, then being locked into a 2-second "let's stumble slowly without falling" animation in opposite directions, while the ball sits there and no other player is paying attention to it.
The goals look like football, because of how great the graphics are. The actual play over 90 minutes looks (and feels) so far away from football, with the "stumble into you" defending, "enter dribble commands a couple of seconds in advance" dribbling and "headless chicken" player positioning.
It might be fun but for me it's no representation of football, considering it's 2020. I think of @incas36's great post from another thread - this is one of the guys who has made the gameplay 10x better on PC:
I agree. I think what you describe, the stumbling around, takes so much intensity out of the game too. I had a situation yesterday where I made 4 standing tackles in 5 seconds and everyone went to the cpu while my players stood around.
Is that guy saying there are fewer gameplay files compared to pes 18 and before??
Is that why pes 19 and 20 have felt so empty? Like wireframe football without the detail? Have they chopped gameplay away to get good graphics, animations and the stadium cam then?
Flipper the Priest
International
- 15 July 2003
Tried it. Alright. But that's me done. I keep forgetting the camera angles - no switching or manual controls will help that. If only you could get the Stadium view to move over the pitch to give you the same angle you get when the ball's at the near side. That wouldn't be lifelike as that's not how cameras move, but it's a bloody (can you drop the F-bomb here? Anyway, re-read the sentence and put it in) video game. 'Human' camera movement can do one.
rockstrongo
Retired Footballer
Lower league or low ranking team's are always more fun to play as
rockstrongo
Retired Footballer
Hey pal,yeah it’s weird not being able to see live football,I’m just been gradually less and less interested ,watching it on the tv with an empty silent stadium sucks.So, been away from this Place for a while, shouldn't PES 2021 been announced by now? What's up with that?
Hi Rock, tough times not being able to be in the stands mate! But we are looking good atm though.
You’re playing amazing right now,kinda sneaked up from the back and took charge,well done!
It's as stale as PES sometimes! Hopefully parts of the season at least will be with in front of a crowd. Yeah, signing Haksabanovic from West Ham was a big boost for the whole club.
Sorry for the OT guys!
PRO_TOO
Team Heffernan
dont you have a second sound opttion available!?
in germany via sky (i think uk is the same) they provide a live audience feed. and this thing is actually "interactive", like it is with "the other game"s crowd!
so when there is a foul on the pitch you can hear fans boooing and stuff... its not the same as real live audience but its much better to enjoy compared to just a silent stadium with commentary!
sorry for ot!
rockstrongo
Retired Footballer
Nope we don’t have that,I know it’s better than a silent stadium,but it’s still pretty boring.dont you have a second sound opttion available!?
in germany via sky (i think uk is the same) they provide a live audience feed. and this thing is actually "interactive", like it is with "the other game"s crowd!
so when there is a foul on the pitch you can hear fans boooing and stuff... its not the same as real live audience but its much better to enjoy compared to just a silent stadium with commentary!
sorry for ot!
You can clearly see it effects the players who are used to having a loud stadium,now suddenly it’s quiet,there’s no home crowd pushing you the last 10-15 min for an equalizer etc.
To me they could have scrapped the season,it’s so boring to watch,fifa sounds or not
- Staff
- #10,669
Sort-of-on-topic, I've just seen this on Twitter:
Countless goals (or attempts) are from real "WHOOPS, BLOOPER!" moments like this. Kills all immersion and joy for me.
It's not just "why wasn't that shot blocked on the line" - or ATTEMPTED to be blocked... It's about 10x more than that. Why is the defender not aware of the ball? Where is he running to? Not even towards an opponent. The game is telling the guy "run to this specific pixel-perfect spot now, or you're out of position!" ...When the ball is flying past him, into the net.
They're not so much footballers as stupid jets flying in formation, right?
I believe that's what he means, yeah. Less variables for less situations in the gameplay files, so that the game becomes more "run up and down the pitch as your formation tells you" than anything else. You know better than me @incas36 - any more info on this?
I don't think casual gamers will ever be convinced to change to manual controls for many reasons. First of all it takes time and patience. Secondly, you need to know that you need to play 25min or even 30min per match to have some decent chances in front of the goal.
Yes you can see some messy gameplay in Matt's video but this is happening because he's still learning the manual controls. If you check Knight's videos the flow, pace and player reactions are way better because he spent more time playing on manual.
My only "issue" with manual is that the cpu commits many fouls in my 25min games. About 12-14 average, I even had a game they commited 16 fouls. This is happening because the AI mirrors user's input and the user doesn't rush things because we try to be more precise. I don't mind around 8-10 fouls in 25min but any higher and it kills a bit the flow.
Yes you can see some messy gameplay in Matt's video but this is happening because he's still learning the manual controls. If you check Knight's videos the flow, pace and player reactions are way better because he spent more time playing on manual.
My only "issue" with manual is that the cpu commits many fouls in my 25min games. About 12-14 average, I even had a game they commited 16 fouls. This is happening because the AI mirrors user's input and the user doesn't rush things because we try to be more precise. I don't mind around 8-10 fouls in 25min but any higher and it kills a bit the flow.
- Staff
- #10,671
Messy play is one thing, completely unaware AI players (on your team and the opposition's team) is something else. That's my bugbear, personally.
I gave it a go last night, and passed the ball towards my left winger. With it being on manual, it wasn't 100% on target, so he had to adjust his run.
The opposition RB ran ALL THE WAY from the edge of the box to claim the loose ball, got to within SIX FEET of the ball (in the middle of his own half)...
Then turned around and ran ALL THE WAY BACK to the box at 100mph. For absolutely no reason. My winger was at least 30ft away from the ball.
That's the stuff I can't overlook. It's no small issue, no little glitch. It's an AI that doesn't understand what the hell it's doing half the time!
Stuff like the defender not being aware of the ball in the clip I've posted above - that's not once in a while. It's a permanent AI deficiency.
(Just my two cents.)
The last I conceded was against Roma (because we both know at this point when I say I'm done it means I've got one more try in me); deflected pass and I watched McTominay, Tuanzebe, and Wan Bisakka all trot away from the ball while Sanchez picked it up, dribbled up the field and scored. So I turned it off. Again.
Player switching mate. I don't understand what they could've done to cause something that worked so well for so many years to be so dysfunctional the last 2 years. And this year it's been especially bad. I just don't understand.
So now we have zombies programmed to hold position instead of going after the ball when it's in their vicinity because the game wants someone 12 metres away to pick it up.
rockstrongo
Retired Footballer
Oooh Danny Henry (not our Danny) is pissed off.
That takes some pissing off to have him complaining about Pes #myclubthebestever
That takes some pissing off to have him complaining about Pes #myclubthebestever
Illy
Non-League
- 25 September 2019
Is PES 21 gonna be an update rather than a full game?
Illy
Non-League
- 25 September 2019
One more thing, is it possible for modders to mod broadcast and gfx to make it look like on PC, like full Bundesliga graphics and UCL live coverage stuff idk.
This makes perfect sense now I think about it. One of the initially impressive things about pes 20 was how the attacking moves you could put together were so lifelike. And then, you realised how few of these moves there were. Pes 16 was a horrible game but had so many many more attacking outcomes, pes 17 even more.
(In fact, one of my favourite games was pes 16 on ps3. Ahead of that was pes 15 on ps3 which had so many attacking outcomes, and still felt like a pes game to some extent).
This taking away of game files explains so much. Like why pes 3 has better attacking teamate AI than virtually every other ps2 game and why pes 5 has more outcomes than pes 10 on ps2 (or any.pes game since). It's a game engine which is so old and has an absolute capacity which is so low, they have to take gameplay away to add other things. So when animations took a leap last year, variables were cut. And same again this year. Super fantastic animations and sod all else.
You can almost guarantee that the retreating defences which just ruin the shape of every game and your own attacks (you can never split a defence) are either covering for the total absence of actual game files that govern defence, or are just beyond the control of the devs, because the ball physics need to 'look' real...
Honestly, konami makes game development feel like the most depressing process on the planet. More like deciding which of your children will survive, rather than the joy and excitement of creation.
incas36
International
- 4 November 2015
Just a little example. The following is a part of dt18 placed in constant_team.bin it's called spaceRun and rules the runs of the players on the pitch
(constant_team.bin=this .bin file rules the behaviour of the whole team on the pitch):
Look at bold scections! These sections are not in dt18/constant_team.bin of Pes 19!
Or, for dribblings (constant_player.bin=rules the behaviour of single palyer on the pitch):
This ENTIRE SECTION there isn't anymore!
And finally motivation (part of constant_player.bin=
These are just some examples.
PRO_TOO
Team Heffernan
- Staff
- #10,680
I've been waiting for this to appear - he was a PES Mobile player, too.
Given that he made threats to kill, whether he was likely to attack someone or not, it's still a serious incident.