eFootball PES 2020 Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox One)

[Chuny]

That *ucking game Is big mess.. That foul system Is awfull..

Bullshit game..

I'm kind of sensing that you may not be entirely liking PES 2020. Am I close?.

 

[PeterC10]

Really enjoying the game overall. So many nice moments on my current Master League with Inter.

Do agree the foul system is terrible though, I think it is just fundamentally broken. So many fouls just aren't given, for the player or the CPU. Still yet to win a penalty, even in PES 2018 which I think was the hardest to get a penalty I got two...! It is annoying as the fouls are clearly registered in some sense, the crowd does react.

 

[Chuny]

Really enjoying the game overall. So many nice moments on my current Master League with Inter.

Do agree the foul system is terrible though, I think it is just fundamentally broken. So many fouls just aren't given, for the player or the CPU. Still yet to win a penalty, even in PES 2018 which I think was the hardest to get a penalty I got two...! It is annoying as the fouls are clearly registered in some sense, the crowd does react.

When this game wants, it plays amazingly well and it's the best football game I've ever played-
But so insanely inconsistent.

Just two days ago, I decided to start a League Mode. First two games were kind of "meh"... not good, not bad. Maybe I just wasn't "in it". My head was somewhere else.

The third game felt AMAZING. Like.... I WANT TO PLAY THIS ALL DAY. I LOVE IT.

But the one after that was horrible. Even worse than the first two.

You may argue that it's the same in real life. Some matches are so boring and tedious. Some others are exciting and unpredictable. Even the same team can perform at a high level in one game and then, fall apart in the next one. But still, I don't know if I want that in my game. I'd rather lose or win but with the same gameplay feeling every time.

 

[Negatrev]

And how many times did you see the cpu do that?

AI is getting more aggressive at the end of the game. Especially when they need to score. Which is nice to see, coz it resembles human players under pressure and getting more frustrated as the end approaches.

As for deliberate fouls, which would be lovely to see (especially when last defender knows he has no chance and has to take our player out by any means necessary) - since the demo I kept wrecking their heads on twitter, to make sure we will see some of this from AI. As usual - no one responded to this. I think it was purely designed for online.

I would love to see this sort of thing, but I can see the big potential downsides of it. There was a game (I think one of the This is Football ones) that had some really innovative (at the time) collision tech and fouls happening. Skills did sometimes work to get past players and the AI would foul a reasonable amount of times. But it had some big issues.

1. The AI did commit deliberate fouls (and the awful commentary clearly pointed out when they did, so you knew it was that as well). But it was too predictable when they did this and you could easily see the AI with players sent off as you could target players for two yellows in certain areas of the pitch.
2. They made last ditch tackles/blocks in the box or on your way through on goal. A simple trick would mean you always drew the foul and you could even 'wait' for a defender to get an easy advantage.
3. It had a dumb handball mechanic that you had no influence over! (not really relevant, but it was hilarious. I think the sequel made it optional)

So however much I'd love deliberate fouls. I also don't want to have to avoid attacking patterns just to have the AI keep 11 players on the pitch in most games!

My biggest concern currently about Konami fixing the foul system is that to do this they also need to vastly improve the Ais tackling competency (and decision making when to commit). As it stands, if the AI was called up for all fouls they commited, I'd be playing against 9 men at the end of most games. If I cared to, I could already get their fullbacks sent off in most games due to the telegraphed slide tackle they do against a winger. I instead choose to try and make the cross rather than just take the foul in all circumstances (as it's about a 30% chance of a yellow in my games at the moment from this).

 

[chiefrocka4real]

Beautiful game..

Bullshit game..

This the thing with this game.

I understand that "fouls" is an important factor of football and I wish we had a better system this year.
Often I shout at the ref when playing because clear fouls haven´t been given.

But then (only with gabe´s gameplay mod) I had been granted 3 penalties so far as AI fouled me in the box.
But even that mod can´t improve the foul system.
It´s really painful and I understand if this is a gamebreaker for many players.

But I´m with PRO_TOO here.
I accepted the fact that the foul system is broken, so I concentrate on the positives this game offers.
Situations like the one in his clip let me enjoy this game and let me cope with the fact that we have a lot of flaws here.

 

[Isslander]

Why does this game play utter shit in ML.
exhibition plays really nice but ML it’s horrible.
I’ve imported Klasmanns tactics but they don’t seem so prominent in ML mode.

If you are just starting, it's deffo because of team spirit. That shit is hot garbage.

 

[Emroth]

So however much I'd love deliberate fouls. I also don't want to have to avoid attacking patterns just to have the AI keep 11 players on the pitch in most games!

I get your point, but it only shows how little faith we have in Konami being able to program something right..
I mean - its not rocket science..
If its a tight game and AI has to win it - cup semi final, or title winning/relegation matter, or a derby match - thats when it should happen.
And it should be natural. When your fast CF is running away and AI has no other option.
Im not talking about each and every match, obviously. But AI should be able to recognise a "must win" match and take appropriate measures to achieve it.
Its a waste of potential having it in the game and not using it.

 

[Negatrev]

I get your point, but it only shows how little faith we have in Konami being able to program something right..
I mean - its not rocket science..
If its a tight game and AI has to win it - cup semi final, or title winning/relegation matter, or a derby match - thats when it should happen.
And it should be natural. When your fast CF is running away and AI has no other option.
Im not talking about each and every match, obviously. But AI should be able to recognise a "must win" match and take appropriate measures to achieve it.
Its a waste of potential having it in the game and not using it.

It's not a lack of trust in Konami particularly. It's a lack of trust in anyone doing this well enough to not end up with easy exploits (and ones that limit my choice to avoid them). Subtlety in AI is one of the hardest things to achieve and deliberate fouls are certainly a subtle art.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

Im kinda in awe with Reus in the game. Started a BuLi with Dortmund and he turns up every time the team needs him. I dont really have a goal scorer in the team but often he goes on a berserk, his current stats are 12 apps/13 goals. This was the first time i put him as a cf instead of Paco.

 

[geeeeee]

Just makes me questioning the importance of the Agression stat after all. I thought its there for a reason.

I know that in retro PES the Aggression stat had nothing to do with...erm ‘Aggressiveness’ it was more to do with Attacking.

Here is an old explanation...

“This value dictates how likely a player is to run forward to join an attack. This is an ability administrated by the game engine:
it has no bearing on any player under your direct control, and works in the same way for both human and AI-controlled teams.
A player with a low Aggression rating will be more inclined to stick to his assigned position in a formation.”

I could be wrong but that may be why.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

I know that in retro PES the Aggression stat had nothing to do with...erm ‘Aggressiveness’ it was more to do with Attacking.

Here is an old explanation...

“This value dictates how likely a player is to run forward to join an attack. This is an ability administrated by the game engine:
it has no bearing on any player under your direct control, and works in the same way for both human and AI-controlled teams.
A player with a low Aggression rating will be more inclined to stick to his assigned position in a formation.”

I could be wrong but that may be why.

I know but..
In 2020 its related to defending. All the defenders, destroyer dmfs have high aggression. Even in the game its listed on the "2nd page" of the stat list, which are related to defending, also pesmaster lists it in the defending attributes.

 

[OBH]

You may argue that it's the same in real life. Some matches are so boring and tedious. Some others are exciting and unpredictable. Even the same team can perform at a high level in one game and then, fall apart in the next one. But still, I don't know if I want that in my game. I'd rather lose or win but with the same gameplay feeling every time.

Good post.

Konami could easily find a middle ground between video game and ‘real life’. They just need to make players form more consistent, they way they control based on their form more consistent, and to not fluctuate for no reason whatsoever. It’s hard to get into the flow of how players feel to control when they’re on blue one game and red the next, despite scoring a hattrick.

Having said that I appreciate that there are plenty of games when players are on top form and they still feel like they’re running through concrete, but that’s the entire point; it wouldn’t be so bad if we understood WHY it felt the way it does. If you’ve decided to play a striker back into form because he’s on blue, you expect that he would stay on blue and he won’t feel quite right until he bangs in a few goals. That would make perfect logical sense.

I totally agree with you that video games need a level of predictability in them, otherwise no one would ever get any better at them. They’re entire design is to learn the rules of the game, then master them. PES has some truly superb moments one minute, and god awful ones the next, but it’s never obvious why. Accepting the unpredictability would be easy if there were clear gameplay related reasons to why the things that happen do happen.

 

[Daisuk]

I've played 4 full seasons of ML - still haven't gotten a single penalty.

 

[Emroth]

Good post.

Konami could easily find a middle ground between video game and ‘real life’. They just need to make players form more consistent, they way they control based on their form more consistent, and to not fluctuate for no reason whatsoever. It’s hard to get into the flow of how players feel to control when they’re on blue one game and red the next, despite scoring a hattrick.

Having said that I appreciate that there are plenty of games when players are on top form and they still feel like they’re running through concrete, but that’s the entire point; it wouldn’t be so bad if we understood WHY it felt the way it does. If you’ve decided to play a striker back into form because he’s on blue, you expect that he would stay on blue and he won’t feel quite right until he bangs in a few goals. That would make perfect logical sense.

I totally agree with you that video games need a level of predictability in them, otherwise no one would ever get any better at them. They’re entire design is to learn the rules of the game, then master them. PES has some truly superb moments one minute, and god awful ones the next, but it’s never obvious why. Accepting the unpredictability would be easy if there were clear gameplay related reasons to why the things that happen do happen.

100%
Question - do you see any difference between players in bad form and players in good form in pes20?
Coz sure as hell - I dont. To me, there is an exact same level of missed shots, passes, runs, whole lot.
Im playing on manual, granted, but still..

Im usually swapping all players and I try to play with the strongest and most "fit" players, but this is out of pure habit.
If a player has arrow down - to me - he is injured. This is one of my little rules from back when we had no injuries whatsoever.
But sometimes Im forced to play with my CF being ↙️ (not "injured", but crap)
And I see no difference between this match and when he is in top form.

The only time Im noticing differences is when stamina drains and they clearly have no steam to run anymore.

 

[geeeeee]

I know but..
In 2020 its related to defending. All the defenders, destroyer dmfs have high aggression. Even in the game its listed on the "2nd page" of the stat list, which are related to defending, also pesmaster lists it in the defending attributes.

Fair enough Gabe, like you said it should relate to defending then. Being honest i very rarely play the game anymore but still read the posts as it keeps me amused.

 

[malc]

Dear me. ML is utterly fucked. The scripting is disgusting. Twice I’ve played the same game 3 times, different line-ups and tactics, same outcome in every game. First game I went into, Liverpool away, 2 points behind them, 3 behind City in first. Drew 1-1 against Liverpool each time. They had 2 penalties for nothing, and I got a red card for a foul outside the box. I created more chances, more shots and was twice taken out when clean through, not even a yellow. Second time West Ham at home, 2 points off the top now, still in 3rd. Lost all 3 games 2-1, on each occasion West Ham scored with their only 2 attempts following an early goal for me, then just passed around the pitch. Couldn’t get close enough to the players and if it looked like I would get a loose ball or near their players, I was suddenly controlling the wrong man, or my player stopped moving or was stuck in treacle. The most striking aspect, when a counter attack opportunity presented itself, I ran it to the halfway line and not a single player kept up, they just didn’t try so I was 2-1 down at home and had 1 player in the oppositions half having ran from the edge of my own area and no support within the same half. Just horrendous.

In general, through pass is completely null and void. For years playing PES I played with short pass to play to feet, through pass to play into space for players to run on to. Just isn’t possible on this one. You’re lucky if 1 in 20 through passes are 2 of right angle, direction and pace, nevermind all 3. It’s marginally better than lobbed through ball though, which is essentially just a method to use to get the ball back to the nearest opponent or the goalkeeper efficiently. Which brings me to crosses. Every cross, no matter the direction, position struck from, quality of crosser, speed they’re moving at, space the crosser has, whatever.. straight to the keeper. Every. Time. Appalling.

Special mention for the brutal, telepathic defending of the AI. Telepathic inch perfect slide tackles time and time again. Players flying in from all over the show with last minute blocks and lunges.. managing to get a touch on any and every forward pass or shot.. my players slide tackles generally involve apologetic lying down somewhere a safe distance from the action. Then there’s the hold them off mode.. if the AI decides they’re keeping the ball, they get their back turned and it’s over. Nothing you can do but give a foul away or accept you can’t have the ball, ever. Now I try it and the AI just gives me a delicate shove in the back and wanders off with the ball, no sweat. Also, what’s with players being stunned into stillness by the slightest of touches from a defender. AI can be tackled, hit the deck, get up and take the ball away, slight nudge and the ensuing confusion has my player stood stock still for seconds.. also, every slide tackle knocks my player off balance and results in them face planting 10 feet away while the defenders are back on their feet recovering the loose ball.

Then we have the action delay protocol.. running with the ball, drawn the defender, the pass is on, press pass...... player does nothing giving the defender time to close down and block the pass. Ball into the striker or advancing midfielder.. we’re after touch and shot.. no. Touch, then sluggish delay before smashing it into the shins of the defender who is now an inch away. Also when shooting the superhuman performance of the AI keepers with anything over 10 yards out. They fly through the air with the greatest of ease, plucking the ball from the top corners with gay abandon.

The passing is what really irks at present though. Every standard pass is behind the intended target or just lazily knocked into the defender anywhere in the region of the path you intended for the ball. Long pass is pointless looping nonsense unless switching the play (which the AI absolutely abused when it suits btw), and then if the recipient isn’t completely alone you’ve lost the ball.

The foul system. The fucking foul system. Good God fucking damn, the foul system. The amount of times I’ve got beyond a defender and watched helplessly as the defender drags my attacker back, holds him in place while the ball rolls harmlessly out/past/back to the keeper, never a foul. The endless body checks, blocking off, pausing from running with the ball to just shove your player off (usually into the confused standing pause allowing them to get away). The fact in Derbies that the opposition will smash the living daylights out of you in the middle 6 eighths of the pitch, stopping all flow and attacking momentum, often without punishment and if you do manage to sneak past this onslaught they will just block/obstruct/smash/pull back any attacker that deigns to get near goal without prejudice or remorse, completely without fear of reprisals, as there won’t be any. It’s absolutely murder.

On top of all of the above, I’ve now noticed my RB develop a penchant for wandering about watching while miles out of position, showing no interest in actually chasing back or heading for his position, and I’ve switched them about, changed instructions etc. they all do it.. the opposition needs a goal and suddenly the best defenders in the World inexplicably decide to step up 5 yards just as the oppositions CM threads the perfect through ball leaving recovery a forlorn hope, fullbacks tuck too far in or just don’t come back, CM go AWOl despite not having been dragged out of position or under pressure, huge great chasms appear throughout the defence giving the AI all the options in the World to pick you apart.

The issue of players not reacting, the wrong player being selected that existed prior to the last patch still remains, not quite as bad but occasionally utterly ridiculous and infuriating.

Honestly could go on and on and on (I have already...)

Oh, and the colour palette is dire. Kits clash regardless of colours and the lurid green grass ruins the retinas, and the sound effects are pathetic when all said and done.

Menus and use of them is agony and the wording of the cutscenes, messages and news items laughable. For £45k a year I would dedicate my life to helping them with the minute details that make all the difference and ensuring they’re all correct and take great pride in doing it.

Other than all that, it’s pretty good.

I hope the next patch is basically a huge extension kit that turns it into an actual football game..

 

[fear]

100%
Question - do you see any difference between players in bad form and players in good form in pes20?
Coz sure as hell - I dont. To me, there is an exact same level of missed shots, passes, runs, whole lot.
Im playing on manual, granted, but still..

Im usually swapping all players and I try to play with the strongest and most "fit" players, but this is out of pure habit.
If a player has arrow down - to me - he is injured. This is one of my little rules from back when we had no injuries whatsoever.
But sometimes Im forced to play with my CF being ↙ (not "injured", but crap)
And I see no difference between this match and when he is in top form.

The only time Im noticing differences is when stamina drains and they clearly have no steam to run anymore.

Sorry mate, I'm in the second season of my ML with Leicester and since the 1st year player form made a huge impact on my games. When Madisson was on form I was scoring screamers outside of the area. Sometimes I think we all playing a different game. My TS since the first season is on 96. That's Superstar 25min,PA1. I'm having tons of fouls every game, I'm not going in to the debate you're playing it wrong.

 

[Emroth]

I'm not going in to the debate you're playing it wrong

Good. I wasnt going to either. It was merely a matter of curiosity.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

On any cam why is it there raining animation while its snowing? During every cut scene, replay there is snow.

 

[ono5985]

Just to say it is not people being 'defensive'. It was them pointing out the flaw is easy to ignore so it's not as big an issue. I'd much rather Konami fixed the issues that aren't avoidable ')

Generally, playtests involve them trying what a player would do. They should certainly be tested more (from the amount of issues that get through) and I feel they shouldn't rush all the changes they make (especially between demo and full game, they should really release live updates for the demo for a few weeks and tweak like that). But until they get basic playtesting right, they certainly aren't going to start doing more advanced QA. This involves behaving contrary to the game goals in some way to find out anything that breaks the game. Like many multiplayer racing games that soon discovered there are idiots who want to drive backwards just to annoy people (or because they just got disoriented) and so they started coding first 'wrong way' prompts and later literally car recoveries that forced you the right way around if you took too long.

PES certainly breaks in silly ways under some situations. Even more so against the AI. But since I personally don't play competitively (besides waiting on a decent first ML option file) I don't care about human exploits and AI ones I can just choose note to use.

This leaves me wanting them to prioritise the bigger issues (AI variability, better collision resolution and less jarring AI difficulty handicapping).

While I agree with the sentiment of what you are saying, it's inexcusable to leave a bug in that lets you stop with the ball at your feet for a full game without the opposition trying to take the ball from you.

 

[ono5985]

Protective of Konami?
Funny how half of the people here are blocked by Konami reps. Must have been some serious protection going on in the past..

This game needs some serious work, from outdated presentation to gameplay. Collision system, referees, the way the game cheats by handicapping the user, all the way to way too easy free kicks.

There are flaws, flaws that can cause some serious amount of frustration and put people off playing it completely.
But there are flaws that we dont have control over and flaws that are completely in our control.
Like the "gamebreaking" issue you described. How is it gamebreaking, if you will never notice it if you play the game as normal. You said it yourself - up until recently you didnt even know about this. Its been like this for weeks now.
But it never bothered me, coz if I play the game as normal - it doesnt affect me in the slightest.
There's many other things id like them to fix first. I wasnt trying to be an arse. I just dont get whats the big deal?

You can literally stand with the ball at your feet for 90 minutes without anything happening. It's an issue that is difficult to unsee once you have seen it. Everytime I stand out wide with the ball now, I know I will only be tackled if I actually move.

The fact that this issue pales in insignificance to the other issues mentioned pretty much tells you the sad tale regarding the lack of testing.

For balance, it's a fun game overall. Just is absolutely riddled with idiotic problems on and off the field.

 

[Emroth]

The fact that this issue pales in insignificance to the other issues mentioned pretty much tells you the sad tale regarding the lack of testing

Again, I fully agree with you, but thats nothing new, right?
Last year we had AI turning away from goal, being 1on1 with the keeper, just to pass to the wing for low cross+tap in at release. A fucking blind guy would see it if he played few games..

The only way they test this game seems to be hum Vs hum..

One the bright side - I use this bug for practicing my dribbling and skill moves. I stop in front of AI, take a second and then do some magic ronaldinho shit (usually failing coz AI is telepathic and my players are crap).

 

[P34SEMM]

The refs need patching as they are ruining the game.
The AI gets free kicks for literally nothing where as my players get cut in half and it’s play on.

found a team I love playing with in Napoli but the refs are taking a lot of enjoyment out of it.

 

[herodownunder]

Dear me. ML is utterly fucked. The scripting is disgusting. Twice I’ve played the same game 3 times, different line-ups and tactics, same outcome in every game. First game I went into, Liverpool away, 2 points behind them, 3 behind City in first. Drew 1-1 against Liverpool each time. They had 2 penalties for nothing, and I got a red card for a foul outside the box. I created more chances, more shots and was twice taken out when clean through, not even a yellow. Second time West Ham at home, 2 points off the top now, still in 3rd. Lost all 3 games 2-1, on each occasion West Ham scored with their only 2 attempts following an early goal for me, then just passed around the pitch. Couldn’t get close enough to the players and if it looked like I would get a loose ball or near their players, I was suddenly controlling the wrong man, or my player stopped moving or was stuck in treacle. The most striking aspect, when a counter attack opportunity presented itself, I ran it to the halfway line and not a single player kept up, they just didn’t try so I was 2-1 down at home and had 1 player in the oppositions half having ran from the edge of my own area and no support within the same half. Just horrendous.

In general, through pass is completely null and void. For years playing PES I played with short pass to play to feet, through pass to play into space for players to run on to. Just isn’t possible on this one. You’re lucky if 1 in 20 through passes are 2 of right angle, direction and pace, nevermind all 3. It’s marginally better than lobbed through ball though, which is essentially just a method to use to get the ball back to the nearest opponent or the goalkeeper efficiently. Which brings me to crosses. Every cross, no matter the direction, position struck from, quality of crosser, speed they’re moving at, space the crosser has, whatever.. straight to the keeper. Every. Time. Appalling.

Special mention for the brutal, telepathic defending of the AI. Telepathic inch perfect slide tackles time and time again. Players flying in from all over the show with last minute blocks and lunges.. managing to get a touch on any and every forward pass or shot.. my players slide tackles generally involve apologetic lying down somewhere a safe distance from the action. Then there’s the hold them off mode.. if the AI decides they’re keeping the ball, they get their back turned and it’s over. Nothing you can do but give a foul away or accept you can’t have the ball, ever. Now I try it and the AI just gives me a delicate shove in the back and wanders off with the ball, no sweat. Also, what’s with players being stunned into stillness by the slightest of touches from a defender. AI can be tackled, hit the deck, get up and take the ball away, slight nudge and the ensuing confusion has my player stood stock still for seconds.. also, every slide tackle knocks my player off balance and results in them face planting 10 feet away while the defenders are back on their feet recovering the loose ball.

Then we have the action delay protocol.. running with the ball, drawn the defender, the pass is on, press pass...... player does nothing giving the defender time to close down and block the pass. Ball into the striker or advancing midfielder.. we’re after touch and shot.. no. Touch, then sluggish delay before smashing it into the shins of the defender who is now an inch away. Also when shooting the superhuman performance of the AI keepers with anything over 10 yards out. They fly through the air with the greatest of ease, plucking the ball from the top corners with *** abandon.

The passing is what really irks at present though. Every standard pass is behind the intended target or just lazily knocked into the defender anywhere in the region of the path you intended for the ball. Long pass is pointless looping nonsense unless switching the play (which the AI absolutely abused when it suits btw), and then if the recipient isn’t completely alone you’ve lost the ball.

The foul system. The fucking foul system. Good God fucking damn, the foul system. The amount of times I’ve got beyond a defender and watched helplessly as the defender drags my attacker back, holds him in place while the ball rolls harmlessly out/past/back to the keeper, never a foul. The endless body checks, blocking off, pausing from running with the ball to just shove your player off (usually into the confused standing pause allowing them to get away). The fact in Derbies that the opposition will smash the living daylights out of you in the middle 6 eighths of the pitch, stopping all flow and attacking momentum, often without punishment and if you do manage to sneak past this onslaught they will just block/obstruct/smash/pull back any attacker that deigns to get near goal without prejudice or remorse, completely without fear of reprisals, as there won’t be any. It’s absolutely murder.

On top of all of the above, I’ve now noticed my RB develop a penchant for wandering about watching while miles out of position, showing no interest in actually chasing back or heading for his position, and I’ve switched them about, changed instructions etc. they all do it.. the opposition needs a goal and suddenly the best defenders in the World inexplicably decide to step up 5 yards just as the oppositions CM threads the perfect through ball leaving recovery a forlorn hope, fullbacks tuck too far in or just don’t come back, CM go AWOl despite not having been dragged out of position or under pressure, huge great chasms appear throughout the defence giving the AI all the options in the World to pick you apart.

The issue of players not reacting, the wrong player being selected that existed prior to the last patch still remains, not quite as bad but occasionally utterly ridiculous and infuriating.

Honestly could go on and on and on (I have already...)

Oh, and the colour palette is dire. Kits clash regardless of colours and the lurid green grass ruins the retinas, and the sound effects are pathetic when all said and done.

Menus and use of them is agony and the wording of the cutscenes, messages and news items laughable. For £45k a year I would dedicate my life to helping them with the minute details that make all the difference and ensuring they’re all correct and take great pride in doing it.

Other than all that, it’s pretty good.

I hope the next patch is basically a huge extension kit that turns it into an actual football game..

Word for Word, we have been having the same experience. I love and hate this game. Its really messed up what they've done to ML.

The scripting and constant handicapping is messed up in every sense. and it doesn't matter what difficulty you're on. its always there to work against you. Unfortunately i'm re-buying the other game. At least they've fixed the problems with their own career mode and gameplay is surprisingly less scripted.

 

[Dieci]

Any news if they will put the new juve palace striped Jersey in the game anytime soon?

 

[fregen]

I have given up on this game. Online it's a mess and I'm not talking about PA1 etc. PA0 is just as much a mess. Everything takes ages to perform. Therefore everyone just pass the ball to the forwards and try too turn and shoot inside the box. Boring af.

Crossing is pointless. Adv through balls are inconsistent at best. Shooting is off, no unpredictability whatsoever. I can't for the life of it figure out how I can use technical players like Ziyech or Papu Gomez (which was great in PES 2019), your opponent just strips them of the ball with ease.

It just plain sucks.

 

[Alx1234]

Dear me. ML is utterly fucked. The scripting is disgusting. Twice I’ve played the same game 3 times, different line-ups and tactics, same outcome in every game. First game I went into, Liverpool away, 2 points behind them, 3 behind City in first. Drew 1-1 against Liverpool each time. They had 2 penalties for nothing, and I got a red card for a foul outside the box. I created more chances, more shots and was twice taken out when clean through, not even a yellow. Second time West Ham at home, 2 points off the top now, still in 3rd. Lost all 3 games 2-1, on each occasion West Ham scored with their only 2 attempts following an early goal for me, then just passed around the pitch. Couldn’t get close enough to the players and if it looked like I would get a loose ball or near their players, I was suddenly controlling the wrong man, or my player stopped moving or was stuck in treacle. The most striking aspect, when a counter attack opportunity presented itself, I ran it to the halfway line and not a single player kept up, they just didn’t try so I was 2-1 down at home and had 1 player in the oppositions half having ran from the edge of my own area and no support within the same half. Just horrendous.

In general, through pass is completely null and void. For years playing PES I played with short pass to play to feet, through pass to play into space for players to run on to. Just isn’t possible on this one. You’re lucky if 1 in 20 through passes are 2 of right angle, direction and pace, nevermind all 3. It’s marginally better than lobbed through ball though, which is essentially just a method to use to get the ball back to the nearest opponent or the goalkeeper efficiently. Which brings me to crosses. Every cross, no matter the direction, position struck from, quality of crosser, speed they’re moving at, space the crosser has, whatever.. straight to the keeper. Every. Time. Appalling.

Special mention for the brutal, telepathic defending of the AI. Telepathic inch perfect slide tackles time and time again. Players flying in from all over the show with last minute blocks and lunges.. managing to get a touch on any and every forward pass or shot.. my players slide tackles generally involve apologetic lying down somewhere a safe distance from the action. Then there’s the hold them off mode.. if the AI decides they’re keeping the ball, they get their back turned and it’s over. Nothing you can do but give a foul away or accept you can’t have the ball, ever. Now I try it and the AI just gives me a delicate shove in the back and wanders off with the ball, no sweat. Also, what’s with players being stunned into stillness by the slightest of touches from a defender. AI can be tackled, hit the deck, get up and take the ball away, slight nudge and the ensuing confusion has my player stood stock still for seconds.. also, every slide tackle knocks my player off balance and results in them face planting 10 feet away while the defenders are back on their feet recovering the loose ball.

Then we have the action delay protocol.. running with the ball, drawn the defender, the pass is on, press pass...... player does nothing giving the defender time to close down and block the pass. Ball into the striker or advancing midfielder.. we’re after touch and shot.. no. Touch, then sluggish delay before smashing it into the shins of the defender who is now an inch away. Also when shooting the superhuman performance of the AI keepers with anything over 10 yards out. They fly through the air with the greatest of ease, plucking the ball from the top corners with *** abandon.

The passing is what really irks at present though. Every standard pass is behind the intended target or just lazily knocked into the defender anywhere in the region of the path you intended for the ball. Long pass is pointless looping nonsense unless switching the play (which the AI absolutely abused when it suits btw), and then if the recipient isn’t completely alone you’ve lost the ball.

The foul system. The fucking foul system. Good God fucking damn, the foul system. The amount of times I’ve got beyond a defender and watched helplessly as the defender drags my attacker back, holds him in place while the ball rolls harmlessly out/past/back to the keeper, never a foul. The endless body checks, blocking off, pausing from running with the ball to just shove your player off (usually into the confused standing pause allowing them to get away). The fact in Derbies that the opposition will smash the living daylights out of you in the middle 6 eighths of the pitch, stopping all flow and attacking momentum, often without punishment and if you do manage to sneak past this onslaught they will just block/obstruct/smash/pull back any attacker that deigns to get near goal without prejudice or remorse, completely without fear of reprisals, as there won’t be any. It’s absolutely murder.

On top of all of the above, I’ve now noticed my RB develop a penchant for wandering about watching while miles out of position, showing no interest in actually chasing back or heading for his position, and I’ve switched them about, changed instructions etc. they all do it.. the opposition needs a goal and suddenly the best defenders in the World inexplicably decide to step up 5 yards just as the oppositions CM threads the perfect through ball leaving recovery a forlorn hope, fullbacks tuck too far in or just don’t come back, CM go AWOl despite not having been dragged out of position or under pressure, huge great chasms appear throughout the defence giving the AI all the options in the World to pick you apart.

The issue of players not reacting, the wrong player being selected that existed prior to the last patch still remains, not quite as bad but occasionally utterly ridiculous and infuriating.

Honestly could go on and on and on (I have already...)

Oh, and the colour palette is dire. Kits clash regardless of colours and the lurid green grass ruins the retinas, and the sound effects are pathetic when all said and done.

Menus and use of them is agony and the wording of the cutscenes, messages and news items laughable. For £45k a year I would dedicate my life to helping them with the minute details that make all the difference and ensuring they’re all correct and take great pride in doing it.

Other than all that, it’s pretty good.

I hope the next patch is basically a huge extension kit that turns it into an actual football game..

From my experience of 2019 ML attempt over a season with default team, I think there are "levels" to get through

Level 1 : The replay-an-ML-match-and-get-a-similar-result is the best way to realise Level 1 is about building up a good TS

Level 2 : Is about finetuning the squad to fit your team

Level 3 (this is theoretical because I have not reached this level) : Is about playing PES as its mean to be played - with high TS and a fluid suad

Thing is it took me so long to try and build up TS that I just gave up in the end.

The positive way to look at this is this year I gave up everything except exh mode, and hopefully next year I will be able to pass on any football game so that I can save up for further roof repairs.

 

[Negatrev]

While I agree with the sentiment of what you are saying, it's inexcusable to leave a bug in that lets you stop with the ball at your feet for a full game without the opposition trying to take the ball from you.

Absolutely it's a bug that shouldn't get through. But the point is it's a bug that you don't even need to change your style of play to avoid accidentally exploiting it. No footballer just stands still for the whole 90 minutes holding on to the ball. So don't do that and it's not an issue. Far worse (and a higher priority to fix) are the game's bugs that are unfortunately impossible to avoid.

 

[chiefrocka4real]

I´m playing ML on two different rigs.
One in Serie B and one in 2nd spanish league.

Two teams have low TS.
I have some bs games and they feel scripted (on both ML´s) and I think it´s because of the low TS.
But it´s not always.

When I stop playing and shut it down, the next day the game feels so good and shines.
It´s not always, which is irritating and joyful the same time.

 

[PRO_TOO]

Ended my first season with Las Palmas at 87 TS. I’m pretty satisfied with that.
I got promoted after winning the second league in first place. It was all pretty close at the end (Champion with 2 points).
I bought some new player to get ready for the first season in LaLiga and my TS dropped to around 70. But that’s ok too.
I’ll make them new players fit in.
I’ll put some new players in when the match “is safe” (I am ahead) and start with 1 or 2 new guys in the starting formation.
It all depends on the opponent who is next. I’ll try to tinker with the tactics appropriately.
I’m just a young manager... you know.

But it’s still a lot of fun for me!