TheDIsSilentHilbilly
Non-League
- 19 August 2019
Hi, this was me! It was genuinely baffling.
eFootball PES 2020 Demo Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox)
- Thread starter ThomasGOAL
- Start date
- Status
Hi, this was me! It was genuinely baffling.
OBH
PESadvocate
- 6 March 2019
- Tottenham
Hopefully, this disaster is just a UK thing.
The PES / Fifa popularity is a far closer contest in other countries all around the world. UK was the only one where Fifa was absolutely dominant due to the PL license, countries like Brazil are the opposite (this was a number of years ago now though so things may have changed).
Regarding the AI. Personally, I see differences. River Plate seem to take 10x as many shots from outside the box as other teams. Arsenal appear to bomb it down the wings a lot. United play counter-attack and Rashford is a real menace (definitely scored more goals against me than any other AI player). It's only really Barca that I notice strange AI behavior. It's like they want to play tika taka but instead they just kind of slowly walk towards the goal. It's weird to watch.
I'm not sure I have a favourite team to play against, but I definitely love matches where both teams are any of the South American ones. There are more mistakes all-round, some completely unexpected moments of skill by the AI, or cracking 25 yard goals, and I've always thought PES is at it's finest when 99% of the players on the pitch are rated 80 or less.
Agreed.
Have a look through this. You'll notice a pattern
https://www.evo-web.co.uk/threads/evo-web-gotm-august-2019.80638/#post-3418099
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Aribo n Ojo
League 1
- 29 July 2019
Ha... I see the pattern. Konami have alot of work to do before release then!Agreed.
Have a look through this. You'll notice a pattern
https://www.evo-web.co.uk/threads/evo-web-gotm-august-2019.80638/#post-3418099
- Staff
- #7,444
Yup, I see the differences as well.
They wouldnt be as obvious as they were on pes17, where teams were either going slow with build up, or hammering long balls. They are subtle, but definetely there.
Maybe it comes down to Inspire feature?
Personally I like to play against Arsenal. They want to be direct and they really want to bomb down the wings, but if you cut them off they try with a nice, slower build up.
As for the build up - I do think there is enough of it. More would feel unnatural and could become boring and dull.
Really dont see AI to be too direct or skipping the midfield.
Maybe it comes down to my defending, which is never too aggressive. Im putting pressure on them only when I make sure that passing options for them are limited.
Might also be down to PA0, as it always slows down the game and brings more build up.
@Chris Davies you really need to switch to PA0, pal. Dont know why are you being that stubborn..
You are all for realistic approach with a lot of error in football games, yet you play with PA1 that changes the game completely.
I know there are two more pass assist settings there and it shouldnt work like this, but PA0 is like semi-assist in the other game. Makes you focus, gives you freedom, but in the same time its still user friendly.
No matter what your game style is, whether you like counter attacks, or slow build up, in the heart of battle PA1 will influence the match to become more direct and ping-pongy, from both AI and user side.
Aribo n Ojo
League 1
- 29 July 2019
Why did you hope it was a later build? It was advertised as the demo and i pretty certain they never once said it might be a later build. Also i think it's a little crazy to think Konami employees were going to be on that bus travelling around the UK. The way the industries work Gamescom/E3 etc company's hire people to go in set things up let the public play. I went to a WRC 8 reveal recently and the people working there didnt even know how to set the wheels up for the game and we had to do it for them. I think you went into the situation way to naive and it didnt warrant a rant on reddit.
Elanimator
Championship
- 5 November 2017
It's funny, because the only manual long shot goal I've scored in Pes2020 demo is my GOTM entry.Hopefully, this disaster is just a UK thing.
The PES / Fifa popularity is a far closer contest in other countries all around the world. UK was the only one where Fifa was absolutely dominant due to the PL license, countries like Brazil are the opposite (this was a number of years ago now though so things may have changed).
Regarding the AI. Personally, I see differences. River Plate seem to take 10x as many shots from outside the box as other teams. Arsenal appear to bomb it down the wings a lot. United play counter-attack and Rashford is a real menace (definitely scored more goals against me than any other AI player). It's only really Barca that I notice strange AI behavior. It's like they want to play tika taka but instead they just kind of slowly walk towards the goal. It's weird to watch.
I'm not sure I have a favourite team to play against, but I definitely love matches where both teams are any of the South American ones. There are more mistakes all-round, some completely unexpected moments of skill by the AI, or cracking 25 yard goals, and I've always thought PES is at it's finest when 99% of the players on the pitch are rated 80 or less.
Agreed.
Have a look through this. You'll notice a pattern
https://www.evo-web.co.uk/threads/evo-web-gotm-august-2019.80638/#post-3418099
Maybe, I should attempt more.
I started using manual shot type since Pes2019.
Early pes2019, I'm not scoring many manual long shot goals.
Why? because breaking the defense with good team passing is more satisfying to me.
The reason I'm scoring a decent amount of long shot goals towards the end of pes2019 is because my cousin is scoring a lot of long shots(he is attempting a lot of long shots too). So to be even, I attempt it whenever a good opportunity to shoot is there. It's part of the game anyways, so even it's not that satisfying(still satisfying but not as much) to me, I have to shoot those.
I have to agree they are too accurate(on target). Sometimes, he can do more than 5 consecutive long shot attempts from corner kicks (I don't, because I don't play like that), passing to his player outside the box for a long hard shot. My goalie will just parry it out of bounds most of the time because shots are too strong and on target.
I guess that's the compromise of using manual(long shots being too accurate at times). I can live with that because I don't spam long shots and I still prefer to score by good team play. Also for me, there are more moments/situation where manual are more challenging and rewarding, than basic or advanced.
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chiefrocka4real
Champions League
@Chris Davies you really need to switch to PA0, pal. Dont know why are you being that stubborn..
You are all for realistic approach with a lot of error in football games, yet you play with PA1 that changes the game completely.
I know there are two more pass assist settings there and it shouldnt work like this, but PA0 is like semi-assist in the other game. Makes you focus, gives you freedom, but in the same time its still user friendly.
No matter what your game style is, whether you like counter attacks, or slow build up, in the heart of battle PA1 will influence the match to become more direct and ping-pongy, from both AI and user side.
I have to sceond that.
PA0 brings more coincidence in the game.
Plus (as I said many many times here) the cosmetic aspect is better too...it looks a lot more natural and dynamic, passing the ball around.
I have to say though: you HAVE to be persistent.
It took me weeks to keep that setting. Too many times I went back to PA1 because I was so frustrated not being able to perform 3 passes in a row.
Switched from PA0 to PA1 and back for days.
But some day you´ll have it mastered and never wanna go back...I assure everyone...it changes the game to the positive...believe us!
rockstrongo
Retired Footballer
+1I have to sceond that.
PA0 brings more coincidence in the game.
Plus (as I said many many times here) the cosmetic aspect is better too...it looks a lot more natural and dynamic, passing the ball around.
I have to say though: you HAVE to be persistent.
It took me weeks to keep that setting. Too many times I went back to PA1 because I was so frustrated not being able to perform 3 passes in a row.
Switched from PA0 to PA1 and back for days.
But some day you´ll have it mastered and never wanna go back...I assure everyone...it changes the game to the positive...believe us!
I’ve tried Pa1 on 19 just because that game is unplayable on Pa0 (reaction time etc)but my god how much on rails it is.
I’m truly astounded that anyone plays this game on Pa1-3,it’s dreadful vs pa0,last Pes game being playable on pa1 was Pes 15 (great Pa0 as well)
Peter Withe
It must be. It is! Peter Withe!
- 10 August 2018
Not really. I'm already kind of bored with the demo, I find myself weaving the same attacking moves together time and time again because the CPU lets me.
It's a good demo, this. But there's still something missing. I'm not enjoying the goals I score, it just doesn't satisfy me enough.
I want to love this, I so do. It does so much well. But the most important thing in football is scoring goals. And it still feels a little flat in this demo.
chiefrocka4real
Champions League
Absolutely.
I started on PES 2017.
Tried it a bit on PES 2015...but it didn´t help as I didn´t like the core of the game and PES 2016 was the one I skipped.
The learning curve though....I don´t wanna sound discouraging, but it´s like climbing up the Mount Everest.
At least it felt like that to me.
I´m glad I´m over it.
Funny thing is....I had the same thing with switching from d-pad to analogue stick....took me weeks.
- Staff
- #7,451
Haha I was the same.
My two biggest issues were final third and getting out of my own penalty box.
It was all good till I got to final third and just couldnt make this one last pass.
On my own side of the pitch I was getting the ball back and straight after losing it with a bad pass. Was conceding goals because of that and couldnt score myself, couldnt create chances.
So in anger I was switching back to PA1, winning few games and realising that.... it feels empty. That I miss this engagement that I had on PA0, miss the freedom, miss the errors and slower pace.
So I was switching back. And I was like this for weeks, if not months. Dont even know when did it click. One day I just thought to myself that I didnt switch to PA1 for a while and that I dont miss it at all.
Id rather drop difficulty than ever changed it to assisted passing.
TheDIsSilentHilbilly
Non-League
- 19 August 2019
So admittedly, I hadn't seen the initial announcements where they did explicitly say it was the demo. I had only seen the 9 subsequent tweets where it was never mentioned again.
I also think it's a "little crazy" to believe that everyone on that bus will be travelling around the UK for the next 4 weeks instead of it just being one driver and different sets of 5 people hired for a weekend. I would have expected someone from Konami to be there certainly, especially at the London stop. If you go to the tweets from Konami UK it says "come and see us", maybe I was expecting too much but I don't think it's naive to think that at the launch of your bus tour, you would send a few people along from your PR or marketing department or even a community manager in some guise.
Personally, I think the lack of community outreach does warrant a rant. Its hugely frustrating, and the tour bus was just the embodiment of it for me. I just want the best for the game, and that is going to mean more players. What I experienced on the bus (this sounds way too #MeToo for a conversation about video games) was a waste of what could have been a good opportunity and so I wrote about it.
Marlon Anthony
Purist
Absolutely agree in singing the praises of manual over PA1 despite the minor gripes i have with manual shooting, It still far outweighs PA as the optimal PES experience.
Only other problem is why i bolded your quote... The 5 minute demo is a real DISSERVICE to manual. It does take a lot longer to get into the rhythm of passing, taking touches with the ball and watching your teammates for opportunities that your lucky if you string together 1 decent attack per half on the demo.
The real juice is in those 20+ minute games to make up for the extra error you'll inevitably experience.
dekart
Championship
- 6 February 2018
- Zorza Tempo Pacanów
Partner yes but exclusive team i dont think so, Roma will be licenced in both games
rockstrongo
Retired Footballer
It's a big step up learning it,really recommend people starting on regular difficulty,which is a great difficulty anyway.
Buts it's a big step up,well worth investing in it though
DigitalByDesign
League 1
- 29 July 2019
There’s no later build..the demo will be the out the box game but the PS4 pro version will have all the polish of the Xbox one x version..
Been the same the last 2 years(I’ve brought both 18 and 19 in recent weeks and out of the box there the same as the demo,albeit a bit more polish(more so with the PS4 version).
But it’s only like that at first..Bit like driving a automatic car..
Once you get used to pa0 it becomes second nature..And starts to work on a more unconcious level.
I’m not thinking about the power ratio or anything else,because that would distract me from what the cpu is doing and what I’m doing.
It just becomes hardwired,instinctive and something you don’t think to much about after you adapt.
Been the same the last 2 years(I’ve brought both 18 and 19 in recent weeks and out of the box there the same as the demo,albeit a bit more polish(more so with the PS4 version).
But it’s only like that at first..Bit like driving a automatic car..
Once you get used to pa0 it becomes second nature..And starts to work on a more unconcious level.
I’m not thinking about the power ratio or anything else,because that would distract me from what the cpu is doing and what I’m doing.
It just becomes hardwired,instinctive and something you don’t think to much about after you adapt.
OBH
PESadvocate
- 6 March 2019
- Tottenham
@Chris Davies Regarding what these lads have said:
Unpopular opinion coming up.... and I'm going to get shouted at for this..... but I think PA0 is overrated....
Now, before anyone starts hating me just hear me out. PA0 is lovely to play with from a gameplay perspective. It really is, and it feels so rewarding when you pull of a great team goal. Things like a little cut back pass to the edge of the box is so much more difficult to put into the correct place. Each pass looks authentic, each with their own small little errors. Fantastic stuff.
Buuuuuuuut..... my issue is exactly the same as what I have with manual shooting; that all the players feel exactly the same to use... If you use Ozil with his 90 short passing, yeah that feels different, you can hold down pass and the ball barely leaves the ground, but for the rest of them it doesn't matter if their passing is 64 or 84, I just don't feel any difference.
The amount of times I've been let down by Rashford and his 74 passing where he's horribly overhit a through ball. I find this kind of moment is totally taken away from me when I play with PA0.
Again, as a test of skill; PA0 is fantastic, it absolutely deserves the love it gets from players, and the increased error in simple passes makes for some really cool and authentic-looking gameplay. But as an illusion of 22 players on the pitch who (technically) should all feel unique to use? I just feel that it ruins it.
Madmac79
International
- 11 September 2006
@Chris Davies Regarding what these lads have said:
Unpopular opinion.... and I'm going to get shouted at for this..... I think PA0 is overrated....
Now, before anyone starts hating me just hear me out. PA0 is lovely to play with for a gameplay perspective. It really is, and it feels so rewarding when you pull of a great team goal, and thinks like a little cut back pass to the edge of the box is so much more difficult to put into the correct place. Each pass looks authentic, with small little errors. Fantastic stuff.
Buuuuuuuut..... my issue is exactly the same as what I have with manual shooting; that all the players feel exactly the same to use... If you use Ozil with his 90 short passing, yeah that feels different, you can hold down pass and the ball barely leaves the ground, but for the rest of them it doesn't matter if their passing is 64 or 84, I just don't feel any difference.
The amount of times I've been let down by Rashford and his 74 passing where he's horribly overhit a through ball. I find this kind of moment is totally taken away from me when I play with PA0.
Again, as a test of skill; it's fantastic, and the increased error is simple passes makes for some really cool gameplay, but as an illusion of 22 players on the pitch who (technically) should all feel unique to use? I just feel that it ruins it.
You're not alone in this. I can't bring myself to play manual exactly for this reason, individuality for me it's too important, I'll take whatever small variation there is in PA1 thanks to stats over a freedom that supposedly completely run over attributes.
I know many people say that players still retain some individuality in passing even in full manual, but in the past, when I did some serious experiment with it like in 2018 I was never, ever able to appreciate it.. it just seems to me that every player pass exactly the same.
Filippo-Inzaghi
Championship
+1 - also.. I have to say that for the normal gamer it will change your approach too much in my opinion.
I find myself using very short passes too much, instead of a varied approach for some teams.
No, I will rather see PA1 be as free as possible and I think in this demo it's more free than previous.
Elanimator
Championship
- 5 November 2017
I absolutely agree but I love it!@Chris Davies Regarding what these lads have said:
Unpopular opinion coming up.... and I'm going to get shouted at for this..... but I think PA0 is overrated....
Now, before anyone starts hating me just hear me out. PA0 is lovely to play with from a gameplay perspective. It really is, and it feels so rewarding when you pull of a great team goal. Things like a little cut back pass to the edge of the box is so much more difficult to put into the correct place. Each pass looks authentic, each with their own small little errors. Fantastic stuff.
Buuuuuuuut..... my issue is exactly the same as what I have with manual shooting; that all the players feel exactly the same to use... If you use Ozil with his 90 short passing, yeah that feels different, you can hold down pass and the ball barely leaves the ground, but for the rest of them it doesn't matter if their passing is 64 or 84, I just don't feel any difference.
The amount of times I've been let down by Rashford and his 74 passing where he's horribly overhit a through ball. I find this kind of moment is totally taken away from me when I play with PA0.
Again, as a test of skill; PA0 is fantastic, it absolutely deserves the love it gets from players, and the increased error in simple passes makes for some really cool and authentic-looking gameplay. But as an illusion of 22 players on the pitch who (technically) should all feel unique to use? I just feel that it ruins it.
To be honest, I'm surprised that most of the manual players say manual is all about realism.
It's realistic on some aspects, and unrealistic in some aspects like you mentioned.
To me, manual is putting me more in control.
I love it because of that.. not because it's more realistic or not.
DigitalByDesign
League 1
- 29 July 2019
Hallmark of a great pes when your finding it boring and not scoring goals..
How it always was and should be..
On the ps2 it took weeks and your right goals don’t come easy..
This demo on superstar is a real challenge to score especially on pa0..I like that and that the cpu defends smart..I’ve seen some great examples.
OBH
PESadvocate
- 6 March 2019
- Tottenham
Ahhhhh, feels great to meet some PA1 fans who feel the same! 
I can't stress enough that I'm not bad mouthing PA0 in any way whatsoever, I'm really not. It genuinely is a real joy to use, but exactly as @Madmac79 has said; I feel that way too much of the players individuality is lost.
That moment when I can laugh, blame a player for his horrible pass, and sub him off immediately; it's just totally taken away from me because it wasn't because of them, it was entirely me.
Just personal taste, as is everything else in PES
I can't stress enough that I'm not bad mouthing PA0 in any way whatsoever, I'm really not. It genuinely is a real joy to use, but exactly as @Madmac79 has said; I feel that way too much of the players individuality is lost.
That moment when I can laugh, blame a player for his horrible pass, and sub him off immediately; it's just totally taken away from me because it wasn't because of them, it was entirely me.
Just personal taste, as is everything else in PES
rockstrongo
Retired Footballer
Amateurs.....
Jk of course play what suits you guys
Jk of course play what suits you guys
- Staff
- #7,465
It's the same for me, but I don't tend to discuss it, because people are very, very protective of PA0 and the conversation usually goes awry!
I have nothing against PA0 / manual nor the guys who strongly feel that's the best way to play. But even after trying it for months in the past, I've been told to keep trying, because it's just *wrong* not to love manual. It's not so much of an opinion as it is fact.
But yes, for me, it absolutely takes all individuality out of it, especially manual shooting - which, as previously discussed (and as @OBH pointed out is pretty evident in the manual goals submitted to his goal-of-the-month competition) is really overpowered, and lets you score power-drives with whoever you like.
More to the point, PA1 is the default setting and the game is designed around that - it shouldn't be rubbish. Fully assisted passing on the other game still results in passes going between players and/or out of play.
It annoys me when people say "play on PA0 and the AI changes" because I've literally never seen anyone attempt to prove this, and when I've tried it I've seen no difference whatsoever. There are a lot of things with PES where people will say "it has soul" and then that's it, you just have to nod your head and go along with it.
- Staff
- #7,466
I somewhat agree, but:@Chris Davies Regarding what these lads have said:
Unpopular opinion coming up.... and I'm going to get shouted at for this..... but I think PA0 is overrated....
Now, before anyone starts hating me just hear me out. PA0 is lovely to play with from a gameplay perspective. It really is, and it feels so rewarding when you pull of a great team goal. Things like a little cut back pass to the edge of the box is so much more difficult to put into the correct place. Each pass looks authentic, each with their own small little errors. Fantastic stuff.
Buuuuuuuut..... my issue is exactly the same as what I have with manual shooting; that all the players feel exactly the same to use... If you use Ozil with his 90 short passing, yeah that feels different, you can hold down pass and the ball barely leaves the ground, but for the rest of them it doesn't matter if their passing is 64 or 84, I just don't feel any difference.
The amount of times I've been let down by Rashford and his 74 passing where he's horribly overhit a through ball. I find this kind of moment is totally taken away from me when I play with PA0.
Again, as a test of skill; PA0 is fantastic, it absolutely deserves the love it gets from players, and the increased error in simple passes makes for some really cool and authentic-looking gameplay. But as an illusion of 22 players on the pitch who (technically) should all feel unique to use? I just feel that it ruins it.
1. Stats dont matter as much as they used to in the past, so its not like you are trading something great for it.
2. Overall game changes when you play PA0, for both yourself and the user.
Shooting only influence shooting. It doesnt really have impact anywhere else on the pitch. Just a matter of preferences.
Whereas PA0 has much bigger impact on the whole picture. Matches are slower, there is more build up, more randomness, more error, more realism. Even COM plays differently when you are on PA0.
People playing PA1 will develop few patterns, get good at them, after a while they will start ping ponging ball around, are neither engaged, nor focused on the match
(Coz everything becomes automatic after a while) and then saying matches feel empty and boring. Then they put the difficulty up to superstar hoping they will find some satisfaction and emotions there and come back giving out that AI is too perfect and too direct. I think they ate trying to tackle it from the wrong side. Try to engage yourself more instead of hoping to be fully satisfied by COM play style.
rojofa
Premier League
- 15 September 2017
This discussion comes up every year about manual passing/shooting lacking individuality, but it needn't be the case. There is no reason there couldn't be equivalent error applied to manual controls as there is to assisted, it's just Konami's poor implementation which causes this problem.
rockstrongo
Retired Footballer
What you don't get with PA1 is the pass in to space or pin pointed crosses)lofted through balls,that would kill my games if I had to play on PA1
rojofa
Premier League
- 15 September 2017
Not necessarily, because you can use the L2 manual modifier to play those passes.
Madmac79
International
- 11 September 2006
Well I think IT IS more free than 2019, without doubt. Of course we are not talking manual free, or even Ps2 era free, but I sense the amount of errors absolutely higher than the recent past.
BTW, not a stab at manual guys either. I can understand that freedom and control might be a good tradeoff and fun enough to stick with it. I absolutely respect that.
- Status