eFootball (All Platforms)

[vialli82]

If it was for me, i would get rid of AFC, and buy some league instead like K-League1 and 2 league (would make 20 teams), A-league, Saudi pro league, and some "others asia" from Uzbekistan, Qatar etc.
AFC is annoying because of duplicates they creates. It would be okay if they keeped them up to date but it's not the case unfortunately.

Qatar league and UAE is a bit hard to reproduce : not as much info about players, well UAE is a bit easier... But there's even more info (if you check of course, not on PES) on Thai league, or Uzbekistan league. Sad because it's 2 good ones. But i always gotted a little something about Iranian league... But it's the same as the 2 mentionned, no info about it. So we will get full of standard H/W players with similar faces on many lower ranks teams.

Edit: It's a bit sad in football that clubs don't gives info about their players, at least height/weight, preferred foot and weight to their association, QSL association for example. That's what they do with Japan. Very good structure, every players got their info available on the official JFA website.

 

[slamsoze]

You're probably don't have to edit 81 (+22 relegated) teams each year but well.

I never said i don't want more league. Never. Even fakes.
But NOT without a system to hide them from ML or Creating.
So i'm a bit misunderstood it seems when i see i don't want more "fakes" leagues, but you're talking about fakes leagues with the current system, then it's a no.
It's more "i don't want fakes league if we are obligated to create them to complete the game and having no more fakes players, if we can hide them in ML before starting like it's the case now"

If they don't do that, i mean "Creation system" or "Hide fakes league (choosing which ones to hide) on ML"
I won't think i'll edit or create, way too much to keep up to date.
I'll focus on IG teams to custom, errors to correct, AFC and Brasileirao transfers. The basis then.
MX or MLS, Libertadores, J-league. And when everything is covered in december, you got winter transfers. Not time to play practically.
It's a full time job. Then if another editing team wants to add for example Greek league or i don't know what league, they could add it without too much problems.

I think they care about editing and ML : they asked about regens on ML, and they know that it's editing that keeps PES alive.
Also, Fox Engine, or the Engine they created is something linked together and pretty hard to changes stuffs, even in menus, it's like a complete package.
Perhaps with Unreal + new system of modes/presentation those stuffs to add won't be a problem any more.
Like you said, they should build something more flexible. The current "navigation" engine don't allow a lot of add and seems pretty limited.

I want really to believe that they care, but is difficult for me.

Especially the regens you mention. They know, but what do they do to fix it?
They only do it worse every new game.
Since you play ML you know it like me.

Let's see:
PES 2011 ML. Every window youth academy gets 8~10 new regens. In order to get a really good regen, and by really good I mean a top class player, you must first invest a serious amount of your budget to the youth academy. Then you maybe have 1 or players around early 70's Overall.

Let's see how it evolved in PES 2020-2021.
Youth academy starts with 32 default youths, every window it is added an amount of regens, in order the youth squad to be 40 players.

Also most of regens are more OP than before, almost everybody past 70 Overall, and some crazy regens like it happened to me yesterday, Mertens 16 years old, 76 OPR!!!

Also a serious bunch of regen player, are Free Agent, i assume they are "hidden" other teams academies property. So it makes even easier to collect a serious amount of OP players, just by paying their salary.

I mean no matter if they care or not, it is subjectively obvious that, they got worse their own system, that used to work better in the past.

I know that in order to have a never ending ML and not only 15 seasons, regens are most stable than RNG generated players. But in the current state, past 2nd season if you check the ML transfermarket, the top 15 transfers every window are dominated byb16-17 yo youths, that cost some dozens of million €. That's getting from realistic.

 

[vialli82]

About Regens, it was on the 2 Q/A they posted, if we prefers to have new players instead of retired players who gets regens if you did the survey.
That's was a good point, so they care at least. How they will do? No idea, especially for random appearances, because it's not like FM, there's players faces too.
I suppose that at their first try about "no regens" system, we will gets some faces freaks of nature and some very weird names for sure haha

I agree totally with you about the new system. There were players development you could've change in PES 2011 no? There's also in PES 2014 to 2021 but hidden in the core database. I don't like that system neither and agree with you. Even if it's "real" that and Eden Hazard should have 75 at least even at 16 years old, it doesn't follow the system rules, which youth are between 57-64 overally for less known, 65-69 for good a bit known, a 70-74 for future prodige (like Hazard).

I know how it works and data editors got to assign their sets of stats by range, (first is between 40-64, and i gives you the two second, ranked by 4 points) and then for most known players, Konami adjust it.
The superstars players gets a fix overall, like i don't know 88 for Kroos etc.

 

[slamsoze]

Basically i am from those few that prefer the current system of recycling system (dont shoot me please), but i would really prefer to exist a core database of pre-fixed random players like Keizer, Delios, Bos, Berger, Bilic etc, as it was pre-FOX engine era, who will also spawn as youths, to give a diversity.
Personally a mix-and-match of RNG & original regen players and with better utilisied stats, would be the ideal for me. Also a reputation system based on player hidden ML reputation and club reputation according to club ranking position + club hardcoded reputation. By this i don't want to see again an E. Hazard being spawned in the youth academy of Chapecoense.

As for why i want also the old players to come back in some point of ML, but not as frequent as today not sooner than 3 or 5 seasons since they retired. There are players in their late career, that by today standards and as ML decline system works, would retire after only 1 or 2 seasons. I love the fact that i can rebuild a team of the past or for example relive the glory of prime Ibrahimovic or Aduriz. Cause in current day ML, if we assume that they scrap regens system totally, you can ony enjoy our current day old stars like Ronaldo, Messi , etc, only for 1 or 2 seasons and this if you are in a team capable of buy them.

The ideal would be to have an option to swithc between "real Regens/ RNG random regens", or infuse more "fake-generic" regens players as it was in the past PES games, but being polished in appearence and proper names.
I do not want to see another Uzbekistan player named T. Irons or T. Cudworth or M. Heston!!! FFS !!!

 

[vialli82]

Yes personnally i don't bother neither about regens or not... If it's well made and names correspond okay no prob, i'll choose that mode.
I like that mode, just having an old fake 16 years old is a bit sad lol. They should have at least 3 differents facebuild for each preset : young / average / older.
I saw on Twitter a suggestion with players aging naturally year to year haha, PES production is not NASA ffs, i don't see a single game able to do that.
It's a kind of program that would take the same Gigas as the game itself. Except if they makes appears little by little riddles... But aging is not all about it.

Some demands should be a bit realistic, doable. Even my "3 faces system" is an hard work, it's a bit a dream, and a lot of work for them we don't imagine.

Also, to talk to other stuffs about not regens with re-used stats, that's not an issue to me at all. They can grow with another training system and became a different type of player. First let's see if they realise that (on PES 2022 or 23) and after we will see.

It was a question on survey, i think if they make it real, we will obviously got the choice.
But as you said, with all those parameters (names corresponding and looking real, appeareance not looking weird and "country based", stats, etc.) it's not something easy to recreate, far from that.

About very weird names for fakes players, it's a because their fears licencing issues. They were advised to not making any kind of lookalike....
But regens are differents as it's random. Random, but should be for example if Argentina > Spanish name based. Same if Italian, etc.
It's practically a system including worldwide "most common" names. Not that easy neither, in one year or even two.

Another thing i would like to get off, it's managers. It's pretty annoying and serve to nothing... Except Myclub, and there's way too much fakes teams to add that system, so way too much fakes named managers. It's far from being plug'n'play.

About generics banners, i gotted two ideas (i got to send it directly to Konami), first simple : changing language. 2nd changing the words on it. And third but additionnal (because it's taking time) it's to add the option to insert banners images by team, for making it more authentic.
But the 1st or second option should be enought to me, the additionnal one is taking again more work for us.

 

[The Moroccan]

@The Moroccan
So if you want your league (Morocco) in the good continent, Africa, the best way is to "create a league", not adding fakes leagues which we feels obligated to create over it.
Because their fakes players ruins ML, realism. I really hate fakes players from PES. There's some very high rated players from very low countries selected to play for their Nations. All players have "60" in Body Balance and 4/4 in weak foot for 95% of them. Their names looks like nothing too.

I totally agree with you, It pisses me off everytime I get a Saudi fake player called ALLAH in my Master League scout suggestions

I don't remember exactly the "creation center" from Fifa, but i remember having ddl Turkish league. And also that it caused bugs in career mode.

It did have some major bugs on Career Mode, because the leagues creators did not 100% edit the league according to Career Mode. They just whack in the teams and players.

I'm not totally against fakes leagues or fakes teams. But at least giving us the opportunity to hide them before starting ML. One by one, including Others America. In PES 2018 you could've choose to remove them before ML... But still Others America, so, obligated to edit anyway. And you could noy for example to choose PEU only but not PLA or PAS. It was all or nothing. What i purposed as a simple system was to check boxes between leagues before starting ML.
To me, having Bundesliga and J-league is enough for example. But i could start an ML without fakes if i want with that system, the time to create them.

Yes, I feel you here, it has always been a problem to me like having a full bundesliga and JLeague and a fake LATAM league where everytime your scout knocks on your door you get some 80 rated fake LATAM players

So yes for fakes leagues, but first more option about participation to ML, second more option to customise the league.
But you and i knows that the ideal for you to do Botola and/or others Africa league to compete is "Create", not having fakes all over the database.
The issue should be that one African league only... You won't confront anyone or qualify to anything. Better to put them into PAS, i think it should be more interesting. And about African Champion's League : the big, big issue is there's no info about several teams/players. It's way too bad structured to figure in a game. You will get tons of clones. Not Konami's fault.
It's doable in FM because they gives random height/weight/values to players at each save, people accept it as the "overall" is keeped safe, but i don't want any random stuffs for PES personnally.

You are right. We already made a Moroccan Option File covering the PAS league instead. That's an issue!!
But believe me there is tons of African leagues Option Files out there with a surprising level of accuraty

i don't want any random stuffs for PES personnally.

I stand with you in that argument

 

[The Moroccan]

I agree with the @The Moroccan here. All us people outside the big leagues of Europe have suffered since PES 6, cause 9/10 Option Files occupy Bundeliga in the one extra leauge (PEU League). It is really a pain in the @$$ to try to figure out what to do, or like me being forced to play with European Dream Ligas, in order to mix and match, German, Greek, Cyprian, Serbian, Slovakian, Swedish, Finland, etc clubs all togethers.

I agree with you, like I used to enjoy those FIFA European Expansion Packs because they include a big-a$$ number of european teams. Like today I'm playing a league match, three days later a play against Maribor in Europa League. One week later I play against Morecambe in the FA Cup. This was so enjoyable having some obscure league or just some teams from them (I did never enjoy FIFA but I just to enjoy the addition made by community)
The option of letting people add they own content is badly needed. KONAMI should add this option in the game. As it will make editing a little bit easier and separated in order to complete one patch in the fastest duration and the easiest way possible.

Also i do not like the concept of Others.... Others Europe, Others Latin America, etc, since the teams are pretty much unplayable in ML. I mean it is an other pain, to have super-duper licensed Bayern Munchen, only to be able to watch them live, every yaer that you may participate in CL. Furthermore if it is a 100% completelly team like BvB, you may be even more unlucky, if the fake team you selected to create Dortmund over it, was hardcoded to play only in Europa League.

Yes, man! These teams are just rubbish i'm not gonna lie and If someone plays with Almchendolf or Mrabspor or whatever he is whether a psycho or someone who likes fantasy teams. There is absolutely no point of having these fakes in the game. There is better options that the game could do

Also for someone like @The Moroccan being from Africa, situation is even worse, since there is only Pleasure Horn and not other clubs or African League, like PAF, so they are forced to create something over PAS usually and play in AFC CL.

Exactly, like we have to expect which leagues are not playable the most to whack in our leagues. It is not only a pain in the a$$ but also a sad thing. There is not attention given from the devs.

If it helps, i do not mind let all the players in those leagues be dummies. But the most realistic next step, from where we are now, i think is some extra editable/fake leagues. The flexible creation system, i am not even sure that we will ever enjoy it in PES as long as we live. It seems to distant and KONAMI has not shown that cares much about creation-editing communitites over the years. They just remove usefull tools, or make createros lifes only harder.

I've never had hope in KONAMI to do something of our expectations but this time I feel like they will bring something satisfactory, especially that the Unreal Engine allows extended databases. And take in mind that this times they decided to put PES21 as a season update to fully focus on PES22 which I think this decision could/would have some great outcomes. So having this flexible creation system is not far from being possible.

Finally , ofcourse whatever system would be added, it would be necessary 1.01 to add the ability to edit clubs nationality and reputation, in order the banners, youths and teams ID to be proper, and not have some Greek club with Russian or Portuguese bannes.

I think this stuff could be corrected by the community using editors (and again I'm gonna give an example of the "fantastic FIFA"). Creation Master used to let you edit this stuff (local and international reputation, teams' nationalities, seasons goals like qualifying to Europa League or just stay in the middle of the league table or avoid relegation)
EA did that in 2013 so PES could've done it before they just lack something you mentioned below:

cause the PES productions teams, are so out of contact with the PES base community, that i think they do not even know our needs about Editing Problems.

 

[The Moroccan]

Talking about editing in FIFA never understood why they removed Creation Centre. It was a great thing to have

Yes, it was. But just like @vialli82 said it has a lot of bugs in Career Mode

 

[The Moroccan]

I don't know if it was a rumor or if a good source (data editors) have leaked about D2 Proximus League. I heard it too, but from a different source i don't really know the guy, so i'm not sure at all so i would rank it as a rumor.
But it wasn't part of the 3 added league i heard.

Rumors was one in Latin America (by elimination only Peru was the candidate as they tried with Uruguay and Ecuador) .
And about sure league, it was supposed to be J-league the only sure one. There was rumors about Swedish league/Greek league and Ecuador too, that the only thing i heard.
But Ecuador was to replace Colombia if the 2021 deal wasn't done, and they re-signed a deal with them so no Ecuador league.

As far as I know D2 Proximus League was in their plans, you could've found KONAMI logo in the web page of D2 Proximus League
And the two other leagues are Polish Ekstraklasa and Swedish Allsvenskan. Editors from the evo-web community have found some hidden ID's that refer back to these leagues

 

[Tony_yeboah]

Saudi fake player called ALLAH

is that actually a thing
That is ridiculous

 

[The Moroccan]

is that actually a thing
That is ridiculous

Yeah haha check him out on https://www.pesmaster.com/s-allah/pes-2020/player/51508/
They've removed him on PES21 as far as I know

Edit: They've changed him name to T. Vedat

 

[klashman69]

Sorry i have skimmed the discussion here so I'm unsure if this has been mentioned already.

They have been using the Unreal engine since 2018 for the mobile game. So i feel the jump is more technical potential compared to PES 2013 to PES 2014.

From the ps2.5 engine to Fox engine was the biggest jump, done too quickly and it was a disaster. My confidence for PES 2022 is that they have been using this unreal engine with the mobile game for a while now so I hope I'm correct in looking at PES 2020/2021 are transition games and preparing the gameplay for PES 2022 and onwards.

This should be something like the PES 2010 PS2 engine to PES 2011 PS2.5 engine but more pronounced and most importantly allowing the game to be built on much further in the PS5 generation.

The issue we can see in PES 2021 which is already for me a classic football game is the Fox Engine limits it, there's just not been enough development on the engine sadly due to Kojima who made the engine left basically as soon as PES 2014 came out, so the inhouse PES team developed as much as they could with what they had for the last 7 years.

Core football gameplay with PES is in a great place, what I expect is hopefully like we have seen in the mobile games they are able to port PES 2020/2021 into 2022 but with substantial developments on physics and environment especially.

The best example I want to see should be represented in free kicks, now we all know free kicks are way too easy vs the CPU, its too easy to hit the target and the keepers positioning and reactions aren't good enough to deal with most shots from a player with over 75 for set piece accuracy. What i want to see in PES 2022 is a proper, full fledged and developed environment with proper weather wind resistance variables and true organic pitch wear. The free kick system is fine, almost perfect, i have zero issues with the mechanics when controlling a player, the issue is there is not enough wind variables to make free kicks a challenge with someone whos good at them. We all remember this from PES 1-6, how wind effected free kicks, not what they did then didn't require so much time and physics to perfect, however now we need this back and really done well, along with true pitch wear, so you could be playing on a horrible pitch which just on that day makes free kicks really hard and inconsistent due to the pitch.

Yes, I'm just discussing one aspect, however this for me is the biggest thing I'm looking for in PES 2022, the second thing is a lot more clear cut in regards to a completely reworked real time collision system. This is an area which has clearly suffered with the lack of any fox engine development due to Kojima leaving so early, you can see the game still using that barycenter tech at the same level it was for PES 2014. I'm less concerned about this since the Unreal engine should provide a much bigger library of programs for them to utilize to improve this and bigger score of animations to use. Same thing goes for presentation, the upgrade should speak for itself.

My focus I want to see is how realistic the environment will be in regard to weather, the pitch and also players bodies regarding injuries, stamina etc...

 

[The Moroccan]

They have been using the Unreal engine since 2018 for the mobile game. So i feel the jump is more technical potential compared to PES 2013 to PES 2014.

That's a big brain play from KONAMI, they have also tried everytime to promote their mobile game to have as much feedback as possible from the mobile gamers and to be honest, the feedback is pretty positive so far ....

 

[Durandil PES]

Sorry i have skimmed the discussion here so I'm unsure if this has been mentioned already.

They have been using the Unreal engine since 2018 for the mobile game. So i feel the jump is more technical potential compared to PES 2013 to PES 2014.

From the ps2.5 engine to Fox engine was the biggest jump, done too quickly and it was a disaster. My confidence for PES 2022 is that they have been using this unreal engine with the mobile game for a while now so I hope I'm correct in looking at PES 2020/2021 are transition games and preparing the gameplay for PES 2022 and onwards.

This should be something like the PES 2010 PS2 engine to PES 2011 PS2.5 engine but more pronounced and most importantly allowing the game to be built on much further in the PS5 generation.

The issue we can see in PES 2021 which is already for me a classic football game is the Fox Engine limits it, there's just not been enough development on the engine sadly due to Kojima who made the engine left basically as soon as PES 2014 came out, so the inhouse PES team developed as much as they could with what they had for the last 7 years.

Core football gameplay with PES is in a great place, what I expect is hopefully like we have seen in the mobile games they are able to port PES 2020/2021 into 2022 but with substantial developments on physics and environment especially.

The best example I want to see should be represented in free kicks, now we all know free kicks are way too easy vs the CPU, its too easy to hit the target and the keepers positioning and reactions aren't good enough to deal with most shots from a player with over 75 for set piece accuracy. What i want to see in PES 2022 is a proper, full fledged and developed environment with proper weather wind resistance variables and true organic pitch wear. The free kick system is fine, almost perfect, i have zero issues with the mechanics when controlling a player, the issue is there is not enough wind variables to make free kicks a challenge with someone whos good at them. We all remember this from PES 1-6, how wind effected free kicks, not what they did then didn't require so much time and physics to perfect, however now we need this back and really done well, along with true pitch wear, so you could be playing on a horrible pitch which just on that day makes free kicks really hard and inconsistent due to the pitch.

Yes, I'm just discussing one aspect, however this for me is the biggest thing I'm looking for in PES 2022, the second thing is a lot more clear cut in regards to a completely reworked real time collision system. This is an area which has clearly suffered with the lack of any fox engine development due to Kojima leaving so early, you can see the game still using that barycenter tech at the same level it was for PES 2014. I'm less concerned about this since the Unreal engine should provide a much bigger library of programs for them to utilize to improve this and bigger score of animations to use. Same thing goes for presentation, the upgrade should speak for itself.

My focus I want to see is how realistic the environment will be in regard to weather, the pitch and also players bodies regarding injuries, stamina etc...

What Konami doesn't say, and what people don't know, is that the Unreal Engine is only used as a graphical/rendering engine on the mobile version. All the gameplay and animation features are still managed by the fox engine.

The most interesting thing is to see that the adaptation of the Unreal Engine with the fox engine as the core engine seems to have worked perfectly. It was perhaps a first test to prepare a total or partial transfer of assets from the fox engine to the Unreal Engine, for future next-gen versions.

Or maybe there will be a custom core engine, which could be a fox engine & unreal engine hybrid. This was also the case during the PES 2013 & PES 2014 transition, with a modified version of the Fox Engine named "Fluidity" which had retained several elements of the previous PES engine. (Including animations, camera system, and several other common systems.)

At the time they had already announced a "New PES build from scratch", which in fact was not really the case (It was still a big change, we all remember this ambitious but failed PES 2014).

 

[A.A.A]

I believe it's going to be a new game built from scratch based on Unreal engine. This what they said.
Yes, they might reuse some of the stuff from the past games, like the faces perhaps, but it should be a totally new game.

 

[Durandil PES]

I believe it's going to be a new game built from scratch based on Unreal engine. This what they said.
Yes, they might reuse some of the stuff from the past games, like the faces perhaps, but it should be a totally new game.

I don't think it will be from scratch. Already at the time of PES 2013, this was not really the case.

Currently, I do not consider them as technologically outdated as in the time of the PS3. There need big changes and there will be some for sure, but from a technical point of view the core engine remains to be dissected. They have already created a transition between fox and UE4 on mobile. It will surely be reused for the console versions, so no unnecessary recreation (faces, but especially stadiums, environments and animations). With the team of less than 100 developers in PES Productions, I think it would be impossible to recreate a football game at the same level as currently from scratch. Especially when they say in an interview that they are very proud of the latest PES. (This is another debate, but I personally think that the gameplay mechanics and the overall vision will not change at all. It wouldn't be surprising to have the same flaws such as empty game modes, bad sound immersion, etc.)

But I also think they are a lot more confident than during the PS3/PS4 transition. The important thing will be to see the level of production value of the final game, which will surely remain an annual game too.

 

[klashman69]

What Konami doesn't say, and what people don't know, is that the Unreal Engine is only used as a graphical/rendering engine on the mobile version. All the gameplay and animation features are still managed by the fox engine.

The most interesting thing is to see that the adaptation of the Unreal Engine with the fox engine as the core engine seems to have worked perfectly. It was perhaps a first test to prepare a total or partial transfer of assets from the fox engine to the Unreal Engine, for future next-gen versions.

Or maybe there will be a custom core engine, which could be a fox engine & unreal engine hybrid. This was also the case during the PES 2013 & PES 2014 transition, with a modified version of the Fox Engine named "Fluidity" which had retained several elements of the previous PES engine. (Including animations, camera system, and several other common systems.)

At the time they had already announced a "New PES build from scratch", which in fact was not really the case (It was still a big change, we all remember this ambitious but failed PES 2014).

Yes, your correct. You could see that the Unreal engine as used primarily in these mobiles games for mostly menus and some graphic aesthetics with the same fox engine used as a base, the key is as you have also said it seems like the transition to get the fox engine code to run on unreal has worked, also like in the transition between PES 2010 and 2011 the architecture being used is similar enough to allow a smother jump compared from PES 2013 to 2014 which was too big, too soon with not nearly enough time to test it all.

The 'build from scratch' talk will be all about what I'm focusing on, realistic environmental physics for weather, grass, player physiques, real time day and real time lighting, a proper graphical interface with realistic broadcast presentation and angles, proper replay and camera system. This is what needs to be worked on the most and it needs the game to be a new engine build engineered for the PS5 specifications which obviously the PES fox engine can't (It would if they followed Kojima to his own company but they still Konami's favorite legendary profit yielding cash cow).

I'm not sure of course but have a big feeling it will play similar with the same controls almost to PES 2021, its how this new engine and its features and capabilities will be the biggest factor for the success of this game and future of the franchise. Full player bodies is a big jump, much bigger than people really understand, this in a few years will solve much of the clipping problems and should bring a whole new dynamic to player realism with better real time ball body deflections, an entire evolution of player to player real physicality, real time body tracked fatigue, real time impact and long injuries which correlate to how a human body moves. All this alone with the physics stuff i mentioned will make the game feel a whole lot different than anything e have seen before. I hope they get it right. I know there will be many gremlins at first but in the long term I see something special.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

Yes, your correct. You could see that the Unreal engine as used primarily in these mobiles games for mostly menus and some graphic aesthetics with the same fox engine used as a base, the key is as you have also said it seems like the transition to get the fox engine code to run on unreal has worked, also like in the transition between PES 2010 and 2011 the architecture being used is similar enough to allow a smother jump compared from PES 2013 to 2014 which was too big, too soon with not nearly enough time to test it all.

The 'build from scratch' talk will be all about what I'm focusing on, realistic environmental physics for weather, grass, player physiques, real time day and real time lighting, a proper graphical interface with realistic broadcast presentation and angles, proper replay and camera system. This is what needs to be worked on the most and it needs the game to be a new engine build engineered for the PS5 specifications which obviously the PES fox engine can't (It would if they followed Kojima to his own company but they still Konami's favorite legendary profit yielding cash cow).

I'm not sure of course but have a big feeling it will play similar with the same controls almost to PES 2021, its how this new engine and its features and capabilities will be the biggest factor for the success of this game and future of the franchise. Full player bodies is a big jump, much bigger than people really understand, this in a few years will solve much of the clipping problems and should bring a whole new dynamic to player realism with better real time ball body deflections, an entire evolution of player to player real physicality, real time body tracked fatigue, real time impact and long injuries which correlate to how a human body moves. All this alone with the physics stuff i mentioned will make the game feel a whole lot different than anything e have seen before. I hope they get it right. I know there will be many gremlins at first but in the long term I see something special.

But why bother about gameplay if you created a main audiance in the past 8 years who is only concerned about graphics, player faces, player packs, licenses?
PES2022 will be a graphical upgrade to PES2021 by miles surely, as for presentation.........thats also questionable. The game has the identical presentation since PSX.

 

[Hayes]

....The game has the identical presentation since PSX.

lol It's true...

Anyway this one is from mobile game, see at 02:44 when substitute player doing stretching/running from the bench, how come konami can't do simple things like this ?

 

[༺Ƥeຮ༻]

What Konami doesn't say, and what people don't know, is that the Unreal Engine is only used as a graphical/rendering engine on the mobile version. All the gameplay and animation features are still managed by the fox engine.

The animations and " gameplay " are just elements, files, and scripts, the engine is that what clue them together. Тhe first thing that impressed me in the gameplay from the Unreal Engine version was exactly the animations, their density, how natural their transitions are, compared to those for FOX. They are practically the same animations, as units, the way they work together is completely different, so I'm optimistic and I can't wait to see PES 2022 in action, it's clear that the graphics will be great, especially when Konami moves to UE 5 next year.

 

[vialli82]

especially when Konami moves to UE 5 next year.

Bro are you sure about it? I fears that they will stay on Unreal 4... The Unreal 4 is by far more flexible/customisable than Fox but the 5 is from another world on everything, it's a real NG engine. That would be pretty great.

And yes, like you said, the engine is the full Package. The Fox customised by Kojima for PES version (don't remember the name) was a whole package.
From menu to the rest. You can see that it's the same as PES 2014 replaced by logos etc., or the stadium presentation was identical. I don't think it's because they don't care at all. It was probably too much programming for simple stuffs. With Kojima improving year by year the engine, it would have been different for sure.

Even adding a simple feature like a new camera was from some sources pretty hard. About stadiums it was also pretty hard to create some from scratch, i mean in Fifa, there's a lot of stadiums make "at the eye" i don't know if it's understandable in english, but you should understand. Without taking all info regarding the measures of everything or scanning the whole stadium (which maked feels less authentic, but it's a good way for less known stadiums to create)
I suppose Fox system was pretty hardcore for stadium creation, with less liberty.

Now about UE, don't know about the "compatibility" between the 4 and 5, you can make a transition from an engine to another, but if it's not the case, we will stick with an outdated engine because "they mastered it (on mobile... so not really relevant)

 

[PRO_TOO]

Bro are you sure about it? I fears that they will stay on Unreal 4... The Unreal 4 is by far more flexible/customisable than Fox but the 5 is from another world on everything, it's a real NG engine. That would be pretty great.

And yes, like you said, the engine is the full Package. The Fox customised by Kojima for PES version (don't remember the name) was a whole package.
From menu to the rest. You can see that it's the same as PES 2014 replaced by logos etc., or the stadium presentation was identical. I don't think it's because they don't care at all. It was probably too much programming for simple stuffs. With Kojima improving year by year the engine, it would have been different for sure.

Even adding a simple feature like a new camera was from some sources pretty hard. About stadiums it was also pretty hard to create some from scratch, i mean in Fifa, there's a lot of stadiums make "at the eye" i don't know if it's understandable in english, but you should understand. Without taking all info regarding the measures of everything or scanning the whole stadium (which maked feels less authentic, but it's a good way for less known stadiums to create)
I suppose Fox system was pretty hardcore for stadium creation, with less liberty.

Now about UE, don't know about the "compatibility" between the 4 and 5, you can make a transition from an engine to another, but if it's not the case, we will stick with an outdated engine because "they mastered it (on mobile... so not really relevant)

One day, in the distant future, maybe we can read a biography from someone involved since the early days or from PS2 onwards.
or a movie documentary or something. I really would like to look behind the scenes to get an understanding for what’s behind the fog of „war“ during those years! 20 years from now this surely would be a relief.

! DECLASSIFIED !

 

[klashman69]

But why bother about gameplay if you created a main audiance in the past 8 years who is only concerned about graphics, player faces, player packs, licenses?
PES2022 will be a graphical upgrade to PES2021 by miles surely, as for presentation.........thats also questionable. The game has the identical presentation since PSX.

That's a society thing, not a PES thing exclusively! This is not 2005 anymore. We don't like live in a world which puts video games substance before style. we now live in a rampant narcissistic society here style is all that matters rather than substance.

Look at Youtube. So few players are entertaining and good. FIFA has taught an entire generation to foam at the mouth at getting the best overpowered ultimate team that costs $1000+ rather thank just playing good football.

lol It's true...

Anyway this one is from mobile game, see at 02:44 when substitute player doing stretching/running from the bench, how come konami can't do simple things like this ?

Did that studio create this 20 years ago?

 

[Ameppe]

I wouldn't be surprised if they delayed the new engine for next year and Pes 2022 will be another Season Update. Consider that Pes team always had huge difficulties adapting to new engines, add to that the pandemic that is delaying a lot of game development.

 

[Datiss77]

lol It's true...

Anyway this one is from mobile game, see at 02:44 when substitute player doing stretching/running from the bench, how come konami can't do simple things like this ?

Konami does not pay any attention to these cases. The development team does not care about these things at all. Dynamic bench. Dynamic coach on the ground To react to what is happening inside the Football field.

Atmosphere does not matter at all to the development team. The pes series is extremely weak in these parts.

These are just some of the problems with the game. The image turns black screen during corner kicks. It's really Shame . There is no Cut scenes connection in this game. For example, when the ball goes out . ball Boy to give the ball to the players. Something like the FIFA series.

Now let's look at the NBA 2k21 version of the 9 generation.

Visual Concept Studio is truly one of the best studios for making sports games. The game environment is very dynamic. NPCs move dynamically and live and have artificial intelligence. The presentations of this game are really great . Cut scenes and everything really happens. The game camera also dynamically zooms in on players, coaches, etc., and the camera direction in this game is great. Presentations, replies, etc. Everything is excellently designed and developed. When we experience this game The feeling of being alive touches the gamer.

 

[Durandil PES]

Yes, your correct. You could see that the Unreal engine as used primarily in these mobiles games for mostly menus and some graphic aesthetics with the same fox engine used as a base, the key is as you have also said it seems like the transition to get the fox engine code to run on unreal has worked, also like in the transition between PES 2010 and 2011 the architecture being used is similar enough to allow a smother jump compared from PES 2013 to 2014 which was too big, too soon with not nearly enough time to test it all.

The 'build from scratch' talk will be all about what I'm focusing on, realistic environmental physics for weather, grass, player physiques, real time day and real time lighting, a proper graphical interface with realistic broadcast presentation and angles, proper replay and camera system. This is what needs to be worked on the most and it needs the game to be a new engine build engineered for the PS5 specifications which obviously the PES fox engine can't (It would if they followed Kojima to his own company but they still Konami's favorite legendary profit yielding cash cow).

I'm not sure of course but have a big feeling it will play similar with the same controls almost to PES 2021, its how this new engine and its features and capabilities will be the biggest factor for the success of this game and future of the franchise. Full player bodies is a big jump, much bigger than people really understand, this in a few years will solve much of the clipping problems and should bring a whole new dynamic to player realism with better real time ball body deflections, an entire evolution of player to player real physicality, real time body tracked fatigue, real time impact and long injuries which correlate to how a human body moves. All this alone with the physics stuff i mentioned will make the game feel a whole lot different than anything e have seen before. I hope they get it right. I know there will be many gremlins at first but in the long term I see something special.

I didn't remember an engine or other game code transition between PES 2010 and PES 2011 although there were big changes in almost every area of the game. I still consider PES 2011 today to be the PES with the most production value, when we see the evolutions every year I wonder how they did that in such a short time.

One day, in the distant future, maybe we can read a biography from someone involved since the early days or from PS2 onwards.
or a movie documentary or something. I really would like to look behind the scenes to get an understanding for what’s behind the fog of „war“ during those years! 20 years from now this surely would be a relief.

! DECLASSIFIED !

There is a great making of from 2003 regarding the development of PES 3. We haven't had more for at least 10 years, it's sad. And many of the POS2 developers are still on PES Productions today.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

Konami does not pay any attention to these cases. The development team does not care about these things at all. Dynamic bench. Dynamic coach on the ground To react to what is happening inside the Football field.

Atmosphere does not matter at all to the development team. The pes series is extremely weak in these parts.

These are just some of the problems with the game. The image turns black screen during corner kicks. It's really Shame . There is no Cut scenes connection in this game. For example, when the ball goes out . ball Boy to give the ball to the players. Something like the FIFA series.

Now let's look at the NBA 2k21 version of the 9 generation.

Visual Concept Studio is truly one of the best studios for making sports games. The game environment is very dynamic. NPCs move dynamically and live and have artificial intelligence. The presentations of this game are really great . Cut scenes and everything really happens. The game camera also dynamically zooms in on players, coaches, etc., and the camera direction in this game is great. Presentations, replies, etc. Everything is excellently designed and developed. When we experience this game The feeling of being alive touches the gamer.

Stadiums, arenas, faces, details, commentary is also key to presentation but people tend to forget that the NBA has only 30 teams in total with about 15 player on each roster.

 

[Datiss77]

Stadiums, arenas, faces, details, commentary is also key to presentation but people tend to forget that the NBA has only 30 teams in total with about 15 player on each roster.

Yes . I agree that in parts. A series of items make it easier to make a basketball game. But there is no reason why he did not pay attention to the capabilities and skills of this studio.

And next to it. The shortcomings of the pes's back development team were not easily overlooked.

Konami even has full-licensed leagues Has not added Real scoreboards. It's really embarrassing. There was not even a dynamic bench next to the football field. The coach was not on the football field. The sound part of the game was a disaster. An commentator whose speech was repetitive and tedious. Game modes were really poor and many other problems.

In your opinion, if Visual Concepts made a football game. Didn't add these features to the game? These should be at least the standards of an eighth generation sports game. The eighth generation is over. And we have to see what Konami's ninth generation does !!!

And meanwhile. Basketball is less popular in the world than football. So if Visual Concepts Studio were to make a football game. Increased the number of development teams. And it gets more profitable. Of course, Visual Concept Studio has 6 studios in different parts of the world.

The Graphic engine of Visual Concepts Studio, ie Eco-Motion Engine is wonderful.

 

[vialli82]

Stadiums, arenas, faces, details, commentary is also key to presentation but people tend to forget that the NBA has only 30 teams in total with about 15 player on each roster.

Exactly.
It's not even an half of one football league to represent. You can't compare a NBA/NFL etc. US based only to a worldwide game with 22 players vs 10 on a much bigger pitch and stadiums practically 10 times bigger than an NBA court.

PS: i'm not a big fan of FIFA presentation neither, it's looking too "american", or modern. I don't see the world of football like that. Except for the scoreboard. But i don't like that much pitch/players transitions, looking like a pre-calculated things, let's say it's a bit forced and doesn't looks like a whole thing. You got the feeling of an added publicity let's say.

Visual concept studio could help others football franchise, but at this state i don't see any other big dev team to create a franchise from zero. Football games needs a lot of experience, errors and try.

 

[Ermolli91]

I agree that it isn't that easy to compare presentation from an NBA/NFL/MLB/NHL to PES because of the amount of teams each game has but still, you could expect or want Konami to take ideas or inspiration from 2K's presentation. You could still have a graphics package that resembles a TV broadcast, decent commentary (even with generic lines and not referring specifically to that many teams/names) that flows well and doesn't have awkward lines, a somewhat evolving atmosphere, not bland banners like "Who ate all the pies?" or "Por la victoria!" or something like that.

I'd say that PES does a good job with faces, balls and boots which is something they update all season with the DLC (although players with generic faces look really bad), they could have more stadiums (at least more generic ones to have more variety) but I'm not sure if they only add new ones from their partner teams instead of an entire licensed league like they did on PES 2013.