eFootball (All Platforms)

Hels The Ronin said:
So summing up as I read you, we can expect a bad game in terms of gameplay at the launch, but quite good as time passed and they start working with next game stuff and start understanding UE5 better. Maybe updates give this game more things than just better graphics and more content and enhance gameplay... Dunno.

At the end of the day, my faith is as always, with modders, that maybe can use the UE 5 to a better extent than Konami itself. Who knows, maybe even the modding community gets to learn UE so much that at the end someone decides to make for good it's own game football, though that seems quite difficult, almost impossible. And God knows I'd love to see a game born out of this community, but it really doesn't seem like it's going to happen.

Back to the discussion, the thing that worries me the most is the mobile thing, and how can that make impossible to have a game with complex animations and gameplay. I only hope that at the end they split the game in two, one more simple with crossplay with mobile, and another next-gen. If they don't do that and mobile version stops the game from being better, is going to be some big bad problem.
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There is no next game, this will be your game for the next 7 years or so just like Rocket League. Then we will see. Giving their trackrecord dont expect any huge graphical or gameplay updates either, especially now there is no annual release anymore.
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
There is no next game, this will be your game for the next 7 years or so just like Rocket League. Then we will see. Giving their trackrecord dont expect any huge graphical or gameplay updates either, especially now there is no annual release anymore.
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7 years ... is an overly optimistic scenario. I do not give more than 3 years of life to eF. Now, as I write, even these 3 years seem like a lot to me. People will lose interest very quickly, if there is any interest at all, just as if we follow Konami's plan, when the interest and hype is greatest, when the game is released in September, there will really be nothing to play as content. The promises for more will be for the future but then the interest will have subsided and a handful of people will play it.
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
There is no next game, this will be your game for the next 7 years or so just like Rocket League. Then we will see. Giving their trackrecord dont expect any huge graphical or gameplay updates either, especially now there is no annual release anymore.
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Sorry, I meant next updates.

I am not sure about not giving us some update to the next-gen graphics and specially animations and gameplay. If they don't do, they will start gradually to loose terrain to FIFA. Do you imagine to compete against modern FIFA with PES 6? I mean it was a great game back in the days and many people still play it and all that, but let's face it... Nostalgia aside, the game would feel robotic in this days. If they don't evolve a bit, most people will prefer to play FIFA even if eFootball is free to play. Giving gameplay updates and better animations or eventually splitting the game in two is almost mandatory.
 
Hels The Ronin said:
Sorry, I meant next updates.

I am not sure about not giving us some update to the next-gen graphics and specially animations and gameplay. If they don't do, they will start gradually to loose terrain to FIFA. Do you imagine to compete against modern FIFA with PES 6? I mean it was a great game back in the days and many people still play it and all that, but let's face it... Nostalgia aside, the game would feel robotic in this days. If they don't evolve a bit, most people will prefer to play FIFA even if eFootball is free to play. Giving gameplay updates and better animations or eventually splitting the game in two is almost mandatory.
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Not everyone is fond of super fluid previous fifa animation. To me PES 2021 should just upgrade its animation transition better while retaining some of its "stiffness/robotic" and add more animation library. I like it that way, that's WE/PES core. Let's see what final version of e-football bring to the table, I am sure it will not as super fluid as previous FIFA, it does not need to, imo.
 
Thespeedster84 said:
Not everyone is fond of super fluid previous fifa animation. To me PES 2021 should just upgrade its animation transition better while retaining some of its "stiffness/robotic" and add more animation library. I like it that way, that's WE/PES core. Let's see what final version of e-football bring to the table, I am sure it will not as super fluid as previous FIFA, it does not need to, imo.
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I like fluid animations, but fluid doesn't mean ice skating, like FIFA is. Transition between animations need upgrades and certain animations need to be tweaked to be better, but the core of PES and one of it's trademarks was always to have better animations than FIFA, maybe feeling a bit robotic at times (specially with this last engine) but much more organic and with better interaction with the pitch and other players. And if they loose that, they will loose almost everything. They have a golden opportunity now with UE to make things right and try to focus on what matters that is a good gameplay and community feedback, but they seem to want to go for the FUT online shit that gives money and bla bla bla, but the sad reality is that if they do that without upgrading gameplay and going for next-gen animations, and if they keep on not improving ML (although all the years say that it's improved but it is actually the same shit with a couple of new cinematics), no one's going to buy their ML DLC because we have PES for that, we need no eFootball if it doesn't come with improved gameplay.

Things as they are now, they are looking for the online audience and they are too blind to see that audience is casual and today they play their game and tomorrow they change to FIFA, and if they keep treating the franchise as this, it will end up eventually dying because it won't be worth the effort anymore.

Cause let's face it, being F2P is good as an entry point, but FIFA has already too much of the market, and most of the people won't mind buying the game if it has superior quality than eFootball... So yeah, if they want even to survive the first year, at least, they need to keep active and make the game play as a next-gen game.
 
janguv said:
This is false. For all there is to criticise about myClub – and there's a lot – it wasn't pay-to-win. You could easily play at levels that didn't require "superstar" players, and even if you wanted to they gave away the very best players on a regular basis. I never played 1v1 myClub mode this year, e.g., but I was given 3 versions of Messi, a Ronaldo, a Neymar, Ter Stegen (3 times), and a plethora of players I didn't care for at the very highest level. (I turned them all into trainers lol.) Not to mention a bunch of legends.

The way myClub made money was creating a sense of "I've gotta have that legend" among certain fans – like (e.g.) Scholes, Cruyff, etc. And then those players were generally locked behind the currency that you can only buy (or get given small amounts of). Likewise, they would release featured versions of players each week that saw big stat boosts, in relation to the last week of play, and those were walled off behind the paid-currency, so somebody really keen to get that version of Kane, would spend and gamble on it.

Outside of these mechanisms, there wasn't much to incentivise spending. I've played the game mode on and off since 2015 – in recent years, I find it too sweaty and I have other leagues I play in anyway – and I've never spent a penny. A lot of people who exclusively play that mode do not spend money on it.

It's still reprehensible: it's still gambling sold to children, and it still exploits the psychological frailties of those with compulsive spending habits. But it wasn't pay-to-win.

I expect that will change now, of course.
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You missed the point and the definition of P2W. If anybody at same point in time can get good players for free and if you could also have for free a 5 star team after grinding doesn't mean the model isn't pay to win. I'll resume it very easy for you: a player that can get an advantage in stats gameplay wise from the point 0 of the game by spending money its called PAY TO WIN, because by spending money on coins you get possibly better and lots of players, can convert them in xp trainers to buff other player stats, better managers, etc, that could from the START change your advantage in gameplay.
Point is, if you start with your free team included those free bonuses without spending coins and playing vs players that can spend lots of coins on it without playing from the start any game, you will get a direct game disadvantage (without taking in count if you are skilled or not).
In other hand, the part with nobody is spending money is not true, I know lots of users spending on it on the release date of every game just for the sake of getting the best team ever or to get legends on it to be "competitive" online like their life depends on it. At long term I agree, the pay to win model in my Club isn't viable because everybody after a time can get a good team without much grinding, but that doesn't mean it's not pay to win. For that reason now this game is going f2p and called eFootball because they've tested the water, to see that lots of whales were spending on it during the years, and turned for them quite a business... every game that offers an advantage from the start where you can buy directly your advantage it's PAY TO WIN, period...
 
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etb10dmk said:
You missed the point and the definition of P2W
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No, you're just stretching the definition to fit your argument.
etb10dmk said:
If anybody at same point in time can get good players for free and if you could also have for free a 5 star team after grinding doesn't mean the model isn't pay to win. I'll resume it very easy for you: a player that can get an advantage in stats gameplay wise from the point 0 of the game by spending money its called PAY TO WIN, because by spending money on coins you get possibly better and lots of players, can convert them in xp trainers to buff other player stats, better managers, etc, that could from the START change your advantage in gameplay.
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This "from the start" point is entirely arbitrary. I've never heard anyone make that stipulation before, in order to classify a game as P2W. It is not part of any generally accepted definition.

Meanwhile, you're missing that given there are different "star" levels of team rating, players can (and do) restrict who they play against to match the strength – so if they don't have a fully star-studded team on day 1 or 2, they play teams of the same strength only and are not at any disadvantage.
etb10dmk said:
In other hand, the part with nobody is spending money is not true
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There is no such part in what I wrote. I didn't say that nobody spends money; in fact, I outlined some of the common reasons people do spend on the game mode.
etb10dmk said:
every game that offers an advantage from the start where you can buy directly your advantage it's PAY TO WIN, period...
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Again, this is an entirely arbitrary stipulation you've made, and it's irrelevant anyway given that people can and do restrict their team strength settings on the mode, especially in the early days.

It's a strange argument, this, and we don't need to really be having it. There's clearly a difference between a game that is pay-to-win throughout its lifecycle (or for a large majority of it) and one that "at the start" (for a period of maybe a week) confers advantages on those who spend real money on the game. (Again, though: this doesn't actually apply on myClub given the strength filter.)

If you want to call them both pay-to-win, because that suits your argument, then fine. But then you're still in need of a distinction between monetisation approaches that are considerably more greedy than others, so you've just moved the goalposts a bit but you've got the same work to do. I think we can both agree that the new game mode in eFootball will very likely be as exploitative as possible. It will greatly encourage spending, and it will do so for players to consistently gain an on-pitch advantage. And, in this respect, we can agree it is different from myClub as it stands – without downplaying the fact that myClub is a greedy and exploitative gambling game mode.
 
As much as i don't care without really hating Myclub, the argument is a bit stretched too in my opinion. You can got those legends without pay i think, but not in a pack you're sure of it. And Legends and Featured players got in fact the same level. There's tons of very strong players (perhaps one thing i don't like). I don't know if you got to pay to get a legend, but i don't considers it as pay to "win", just pay to get someone you like/strong too, but no more than a super featured player who doesn't need any buy.
 
its999maggle said:
I've never played myclub and I have an all black ball squad with legends.
Cristiano Ronaldo, Messi, Griezmann, Rummenigge, Iniesta, Ramos, Süle, Courtois and more I can't remember.
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Same here ! I don't have a single 1v1 game , just five coops, i don't buy a single coin and look what team i have on my
PS :
PC :
I'm sure in eF that will be impossible. You need to waste a lot time or money, mostly money.
 
In Camp Nou Barca v Real Sociedad there is a weird ugly eFootball adboard and behind the goals letter eFootball. :PUKE:
 
༺Ƥeຮ༻ said:
Same here ! I don't have a single 1v1 game , just five coops, i don't buy a single coin and look what team i have on my
PS :
PC :
I'm sure in eF that will be impossible. You need to waste a lot time or money, mostly money.
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I used to see it like a card collecting game. When I load up PES I collected my free points and spent them instantly. My team looked similar.
few minutes later I was back to my single player experience.
 
“There will only be a small number of teams available at launch, but other licensed teams with ‘made up names’ will be available as usual via free updates.”

“The most interesting part of football, in my opinion, is the 1v1 attack and defense. The 1 vs. 1 gameplay is the most innovative aspect of eFootball and will change the balance of the game,” says Kimura-san. “In order to make this happen, we have innovated in every way possible,” Kimura-san explains. “In order to understand how the best players in the world play, we brought in [Andreas] Iniesta and [Gerard] Piqué as our gameplay advisors and asked them for their advice. “In addition, realistic gameplay requires both varied animations and high responsiveness. To achieve this, we built a completely new animation system, including technology we call ‘Motion Matching’. You can enjoy the delicate touch of the ball, feinting to deceive your opponent, defending with your body, or blocking a shot at the last second.”
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“With the revamp of the game engine, we have focused on the most exciting part of football, the 1v1 battle between players. As we created the game system by deconstructing the mechanics of winning and losing in real-life 1v1 battles and the tactics used by top-level players, we had to restructure the control method in order for players to enjoy the evolved tactics,” says Kimura-san. “Also, instead of having more complicated controls, the game is more intuitive and allows players to focus on the gameplay against their opponents, so we believe that people who have enjoyed the PES series in the past will be able to get used to it and enjoy playing against each other.”
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Source: https://www.techradar.com/news/how-the-pro-evolution-of-konamis-efootball-came-to-be
 
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janguv said:
No, you're just stretching the definition to fit your argument.

This "from the start" point is entirely arbitrary. I've never heard anyone make that stipulation before, in order to classify a game as P2W. It is not part of any generally accepted definition.

Meanwhile, you're missing that given there are different "star" levels of team rating, players can (and do) restrict who they play against to match the strength – so if they don't have a fully star-studded team on day 1 or 2, they play teams of the same strength only and are not at any disadvantage.

There is no such part in what I wrote. I didn't say that nobody spends money; in fact, I outlined some of the common reasons people do spend on the game mode.

Again, this is an entirely arbitrary stipulation you've made, and it's irrelevant anyway given that people can and do restrict their team strength settings on the mode, especially in the early days.

It's a strange argument, this, and we don't need to really be having it. There's clearly a difference between a game that is pay-to-win throughout its lifecycle (or for a large majority of it) and one that "at the start" (for a period of maybe a week) confers advantages on those who spend real money on the game. (Again, though: this doesn't actually apply on myClub given the strength filter.)

If you want to call them both pay-to-win, because that suits your argument, then fine. But then you're still in need of a distinction between monetisation approaches that are considerably more greedy than others, so you've just moved the goalposts a bit but you've got the same work to do. I think we can both agree that the new game mode in eFootball will very likely be as exploitative as possible. It will greatly encourage spending, and it will do so for players to consistently gain an on-pitch advantage. And, in this respect, we can agree it is different from myClub as it stands – without downplaying the fact that myClub is a greedy and exploitative gambling game mode.
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The Pay to Win as concept on the internet as a whole, you will find it in many places, not officially as a word definition in dictionary if you alude to that, but as a collection of elements that combined create that p2w state and I quote from one website:

"Pay to Win​

PTW is used in gaming with the meaning "Pay to Win" to refer to games that allow players to purchase items or abilities (e.g., more powerful weapons, additional health points) that give them an advantage in the game, either over other players or NPCs (Non-Player Characters).

P2W is a very controversial aspect of gaming, especially in MP (Multiplayer) games. Many players strongly object to people being able to pay to trump their own hard-earned experience or superior skills." (source: cyberdefinitions.com)

Comparing it to myClub fits perfectly (it's not about my "narative", It's not about naration, I just explain it objectively) part by part: "allow players to purchase items or abilities" ( in this case spending coins on cards (ITEMS) in gambling methods purchased with real money that if converted into XP can ENHANCE the stats of other players from the team (ABILITIES) and the more players you get more you can convert and buff the stats; can purchase better managers (TEAM STATS BOOSTS) from the getgo, contracts renewal & refresh stamina in game plan, tho i don't remember about those position, skill and xp trainers if they can be purchased with coins). You can have some of those by playing the game after a time sure, but so in FIFA (even if the grinding is way more tedious), so in NBA2K, and mostly in every live service mode. Those things if you have them from the start gives you a strict advantage during the gameplay even if you are good at the game or not, and even if you don't take much time to grind. It's the p2w very shy included and bad implemented by Konami? YES, it is, but that was just to test their own water for what's to come in the new eFootball, a casino royale simulation game with football elements in it.

In other hand, the situation about p2w is arbitrary? Yes, could be, but those nasty things are there implemented even if their "generosity" rewards the user with login bonuses, and btw those rewards are there just to make specific users to enter and continue addicted to that mode during the entire season. About those broken team stars filters that you mention, well most of the live service games have those nowadays, in most of them are working as intended, but not in this particular case...

In the end I guess you are more of an "arbitrary" person enjoying or not myClub and that's fine, but I'll not repeat myself again on things that are obvious about this game, things objectively pointed out during the years also by other people about the fairness, and because of this entire online myClub "generosity" now ironicaly we have the "f2p" eFootball... Every effect has its own cause...
 
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janguv said:
No, you're just stretching the definition to fit your argument.

This "from the start" point is entirely arbitrary. I've never heard anyone make that stipulation before, in order to classify a game as P2W. It is not part of any generally accepted definition.

Meanwhile, you're missing that given there are different "star" levels of team rating, players can (and do) restrict who they play against to match the strength – so if they don't have a fully star-studded team on day 1 or 2, they play teams of the same strength only and are not at any disadvantage.

There is no such part in what I wrote. I didn't say that nobody spends money; in fact, I outlined some of the common reasons people do spend on the game mode.

Again, this is an entirely arbitrary stipulation you've made, and it's irrelevant anyway given that people can and do restrict their team strength settings on the mode, especially in the early days.

It's a strange argument, this, and we don't need to really be having it. There's clearly a difference between a game that is pay-to-win throughout its lifecycle (or for a large majority of it) and one that "at the start" (for a period of maybe a week) confers advantages on those who spend real money on the game. (Again, though: this doesn't actually apply on myClub given the strength filter.)

If you want to call them both pay-to-win, because that suits your argument, then fine. But then you're still in need of a distinction between monetisation approaches that are considerably more greedy than others, so you've just moved the goalposts a bit but you've got the same work to do. I think we can both agree that the new game mode in eFootball will very likely be as exploitative as possible. It will greatly encourage spending, and it will do so for players to consistently gain an on-pitch advantage. And, in this respect, we can agree it is different from myClub as it stands – without downplaying the fact that myClub is a greedy and exploitative gambling game mode.
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Certain modes (like co-op) or tournaments within some modes, and probably eSports comps can't have those team strength filters applied so those are still fully pay to win.

Also the team strength only tells half the story - if you have all the best players on "A" form/condition for the current week on up arrows they get boosted by what seems like 10+ in all attributes and players on low form/arrows will get downgraded.

You could have a team the game defines as the same (or even higher) strength than the opponent in stars/attributes but actually be at a big disadvantage after form/condition boosts which reward the people who constantly buy/collect cards to have all the best players available on A form for the week. This is a pay to win factor at any team strength filter level.

Also the way you can level players up by feeding them duplicates of themselves again rewards people constantly buying packs.
 
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Sovereign Hope said:
Did he know that iniesta is a midfielder not a striker? So where is the midfield battle?
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Well not to defend it, but i talk also like this : player in possession > attack and without > defense.
That doesn't mean i don't includes midfield in the equation (who does both), not at all.
Nothing related to the game btw, i mention a way to talk. Never heard the verb look at that player : "he's midfielding"🦧
 
Wonder what Konami will be revealing next week at Gamescom? Fingers crossed something vastly more impressive than what they've been promoting in the past 2 months.
 
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So they are focused on 1vs1...welcome these new features: "CDM not tracking back" and "No 2nd support on defense"? A new eFIFAFootball?

Really promising...:RANT:
 
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Mathgamer said:
Source: https://www.techradar.com/news/how-the-pro-evolution-of-konamis-efootball-came-to-be
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yeah, thats how football started...
neandertaler_1_action.png

2 guys where fighting over a stone and some other 20 dudes were standing by and watching the scene. than one of the bystanders jumped into the fight and the rest followed like lemmings (every second guy brought his own stone). bring back football to its roots...!!! :LMAO:
really, i just cant take this serious anymore... not the smallest bit of konami info!
 
Mathgamer said:
“With the revamp of the game engine, we have focused on the most exciting part of football, the 1v1 battle between players. As we created the game system by deconstructing the mechanics of winning and losing in real-life 1v1 battles and the tactics used by top-level players, we had to restructure the control method in order for players to enjoy the evolved tactics,” says Kimura-san. “Also, instead of having more complicated controls, the game is more intuitive and allows players to focus on the gameplay against their opponents, so we believe that people who have enjoyed the PES series in the past will be able to get used to it and enjoy playing against each other.”
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So bad it sounds like a parody..
 
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