EA SPORTS FC 24

Paul-v said:
Switching engine's is a huge undertaking, especially for a series game that has very little development on it in the first place. DICE (and therefore Frostbite) is a huge department of EA, there would be no reason to suddenly move away from it now.
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changing engines is of course a large undertaking. but a bespoke engine would pay itself off over time. maybe not for the suits who want profit... but for me who wants a good football game

i dont think you cant put all the negatives down to design whilst ignore the trouble of the frostbite engine. the clunkiness of frostbite eats up man hours and effort. that will lead to less than ideal results.

everything you listed is good info to have... but a better engine would also be positive thing too.
 
JUNEFUMA said:
changing engines is of course a large undertaking. but a bespoke engine would pay itself off over time. maybe not for the suits who want profit... but for me who wants a good football game

i dont think you cant put all the negatives down to design whilst ignore the trouble of the frostbite engine. the clunkiness of frostbite eats up man hours and effort. that will lead to less than ideal results.

everything you listed is good info to have... but a better engine would also be positive thing too.
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What "better engine"? (Please dont say Unreal Engine 5, I will instantly block you)

EA are making their own already and the EA Sports team have spent many years perfecting the extra technology they have into Frostbite. What makes you think they can do a better job than their own developers?

To build an entire new AAA engine would take years and doubling their technical team. For what gain? The game works doesn't it? It looks OK doesnt it? It plays a game of football doesnt it? Nothing seems to be "blocking" them.

Im telling you. There is no click of the fingers which will make it all just magically work better. Theres no "better engine" for sports games and 99.9% of their problems are development related.

It seems you have some kind of thought in your head and i wont put it right. I'll let someone else chip in now. Off to watch the Swans.

Good evening all.
 
Paul-v said:
What "better engine"? (Please dont say Unreal Engine 5, I will instantly block you)

EA are making their own already and the EA Sports team have spent many years perfecting the extra technology they have into Frostbite. What makes you think they can do a better job than their own developers?

To build an entire new AAA engine would take years and doubling their technical team. For what gain? The game works doesn't it? It looks OK doesnt it? It plays a game of football doesnt it? Nothing seems to be "blocking" them.

Im telling you. There is no click of the fingers which will make it all just magically work better. Theres no "better engine" for sports games and 99.9% of their problems are development related.

It seems you have some kind of thought in your head and i wont put it right. I'll let someone else chip in now. Off to watch the Swans.

Good evening all.
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like i said, i think a new engine bespoke for fifa or sports game instead of one made for first person shooters would be good

or honestly just bring back ignite. i'd be happy with that personally as 14, 15, 16 are much better games that what frostbite has produced.



Theres no "better engine" for sports games and 99.9% of their problems are development related.
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i'd assume frostbite accounts for more than 0.01% of fifa's problems, considering what i've read about frostbite development issues over a range of titles over the years
 
JUNEFUMA said:
i'd assume frostbite accounts for more than 0.01% of fifa's problems, considering what i've read about frostbite development issues over a range of titles over the years
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I don't think EA would consider FIFA to be having any development problems though - I could be wrong. I know the problems you're referring to (with the interviewed devs from other projects hating it) but EA won't accept FIFA is in anything but an incredible place...

...and when it's breaking sales and engagement records year after year, how could you possibly argue otherwise? If there was a problem, people wouldn't be buying it and playing it.

Unfortunately, FIFA is (IMO) a Fortnite-esque fast-paced arcade game first and foremost, with an addictive card-peddling element attached, and a social meeting place for young people. On all those levels, it works and it works incredibly fucking well - and always will.

How it is as a football game doesn't really matter.

(It does a hell of a lot of amazing stuff, but it also absolutely butchers the fundamentals that make football what it is, IMO.)
 
I feel some summer 2021 deja vu here from the "other game" thread. Lots of hopes, simulator, photo realistic graphics etc, etc, and in the end we've got some overall mobile crap (for 2 years and a half now until......they'll decide to remove the plug). In the best scenario possible they'll do the same pattern: pumping again their marketing thanksgiving turkey with some Hypermotion 3, new grass movement trailer, and lots of mods with cards. As long as the development team is directed by the same individuals using the same engine, well this product will bee seen as the same golden goose with a different color. In the worst case scenario, will have something worse than e______ !!!
 
I personally think this is just going to be a free to play mess, similar mould to what efootball is now but with a plethora of modes and teams. It wouldn't surprise me if there was no career mode at all.

*edit* they've mentioned career mode on the website, so I take that bit back!
 
Paul-v said:
What "better engine"? (Please dont say Unreal Engine 5, I will instantly block you)

EA are making their own already and the EA Sports team have spent many years perfecting the extra technology they have into Frostbite. What makes you think they can do a better job than their own developers?

To build an entire new AAA engine would take years and doubling their technical team. For what gain? The game works doesn't it? It looks OK doesnt it? It plays a game of football doesnt it? Nothing seems to be "blocking" them.

Im telling you. There is no click of the fingers which will make it all just magically work better. Theres no "better engine" for sports games and 99.9% of their problems are development related.

It seems you have some kind of thought in your head and i wont put it right. I'll let someone else chip in now. Off to watch the Swans.

Good evening all.
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ugh.. I mean, why not just switch back to Ignite engine and just copy paste FIFA 16's code and improve upon that? That was a decent game.
 
Frostbite is obviously bad. It can make you lose both fingers and toes. Without fingers you can't even play games :(

I also seem to remember a few weeks where people really liked Fifa 22. I'm not sure the engine is the real problem.
 
Engine is not the issue it is the developers wanting to create a game where goals mean fun.
The fact that it remotely resembles football is a bonus.

FIFA is just FIFA street but 11v11.
Kids just want to be Neymar and run from one half to the other doing a 101 physics breaking skill moves and then score at the end.

It is a good job that retro football games are still modded so that there are more realistic football games out there where stats other than pace and acceleration matter.
You can tell football games are shit these days when your still playing SWOS from 25 years ago and FIFA 14/16.
 
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Isslander said:
Frostbite is obviously bad. It can make you lose both fingers and toes. Without fingers you can't even play games :(

I also seem to remember a few weeks where people really liked Fifa 22. I'm not sure the engine is the real problem.
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That's because EA changes its gameplay with each update, and the placebo effect that this generates to the players.

I reached a point where I like/dislike some games according to my mood. Specially those that are controversial like FIFA 22. There are days that I'm happy and I trully appreciate the beauty of the game. Other days, where I feel the gameplay to be smooth and playable. And some days in bad mood / stressed / tired, I can barely play it. A 5 minutes match is enough to confirm that is not what I'm looking for in a football game. Of course mods help a lot to improve and balance the game to reach an acceptable level. But with good games this doesn't happen.

If the experience is so variable, then there's something wrong with the game. Having more than 2,000 hours played in FIFA 16 I can ensure you, that I enjoy it each time.
 
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The best fifa on frostbite was the first fifa on frostbite, when devs were having the most difficult time getting used to it (this much is true, although it's no longer a relevant story, but it's just being repeated randomly forever). Then look at the simplified PES physics with the switch to unreal.

Really, the engine is irrelevant. The games are exactly how EA/Konami want them to be. The engine is just a stupid framework that runs the same code on multiple platforms. It's a non story and it's like arguing about what graphics program a graphic designer uses. It doesn't matter. EA switched to frostbite to have full control and not pay a huge license, Konami switched to unreal because the next-gen consoles arrived and their own engine was an abandoned project that could no longer support the new systems.

If EA want to make a good game they will, if they want to keep making shit, they will keep making shit, and money. Animations will be forever broken for as long as responsiveness is top priority (and people playing it think that this is somehow ... not important, nor part of gameplay, lol), and the AI will be braindead for the reasons I assume you all know by now.

Similarly the name change is just a name change. They still get the same 6 months of dev time (or how much it is nowadays), to come up with a bunch of stupid features to hype up the next game, they won't get 5 years of dev time just because it will no longer be called fifa. Some poor guy will be doing search & replace "fifa" -> "Shit Football Club" in the code though, for a couple of days.
 
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Chris Davies said:
I don't think EA would consider FIFA to be having any development problems though - I could be wrong. I know the problems you're referring to (with the interviewed devs from other projects hating it) but EA won't accept FIFA is in anything but an incredible place...
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the engine troubles of frostbite are well reported and i dont see why they wouldnt also apply to fifa. when an engine makes something take for example 1.5x longer to implement than it should, or generally causes issues for developers - then that is a development problem.

now whether ea care enough or view this is as a big problem warrant fixing (especially relative to the scale of undertaking an engine change requires) is another argument. and like you say they have good reason to answer "no", considering current sales.

but im talking from the pov of myself, not ea. and if it was up to me then i would change the engine straight away. its been 8 years with frostbite and it still feels like it's playing catch-up to ignite
 
manmachine said:
The best fifa on frostbite was the first fifa on frostbite, when devs were having the most difficult time getting used to it (this much is true, although it's no longer a relevant story, but it's just being repeated randomly forever). Then look at the simplified PES physics with the switch to unreal.

Really, the engine is irrelevant. The games are exactly how EA/Konami want them to be. The engine is just a stupid framework that runs the same code on multiple platforms. It's a non story and it's like arguing about what graphics program a graphic designer uses. It doesn't matter. EA switched to frostbite to have full control and not pay a huge license, Konami switched to unreal because the next-gen consoles arrived and their own engine was an abandoned project that could no longer support the new systems.

If EA want to make a good game they will, if they want to keep making shit, they will keep making shit, and money. Animations will be forever broken for as long as responsiveness is top priority (and people playing it think that this is somehow ... not important, nor part of gameplay, lol), and the AI will be braindead for the reasons I assume you all know by now.

Similarly the name change is just a name change. They still get the same 6 months of dev time (or how much it is nowadays), to come up with a bunch of stupid features to hype up the next game, they won't get 5 years of dev time just because it will no longer be called fifa. Some poor guy will be doing search & replace "fifa" -> "Shit Football Club" in the code though, for a couple of days.
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FIFA 17 is still a banger. It feels like FIFA 16 but with attributes mattering more and attacking AI being improved.
 
I believe EA will teach KONAMI how to launch a new brand, is to see the content.

I believe FC will bring new features that will broaden horizons, and I only see the arcade side, as long as it has full customization of gameplay, it might help.
 
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IT is going to be the best game ever created. ...... isn't IT?

Will there be a new engine?
I will not stand this moving on the pitch anymore
 
Well you can translated "developement issues" with "gameplay choice" and close the book.

Don't thing or believe neither a new engine can change the whole game, when since FIFA 17 which was OK regarding physics and logic : they're destroyed it year after year to make it what we got now : an hand to hand "looking like football game" with weird controls and added stuffs just for visual / animation such as Hypermotions which is only for animation, and doesn't seems to take in account weight shift, players are still turning at the same agility to 180 degree than 75 so...
I can take a pretty ancient 16 Bit game or Arcade there was AT LEAST a minimum of logic in the movement regarding what an human can do, not a fly. That's what really disgust me about that game.

But i won't repeat myself each month. Just didn't agree about new engine will change something : we got proof with what they litterally removed for the sake of responsiveness. Remember the test 1 in Agility vs 99 : result was the same on FIFA 22.
Many (youth probably) people seems to don't bother and like it, they did litterally word by word what the bigger of their community asked. I can't blame them completely. It sells, and it will continue.

If there's an engine change one day > That probably because others EA games needed one, and FIFA got no other choice as Frosbite will be "erased" and the only engine that will remain is the new one. Then, they will restructure the engine to get the same gameplay, that's what i'm certain.

And the thing is on the first Frosbite iteration, it wasn't the case (Fifa 17). Ignite didn't even got a thing like that, but they reproduced manually the movements regarding stats and all.
 
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FIFA 17 shouldn't be the base line to start from just because it was the start of a new engine. Some are forgetting just how bland the gameplay was at times. I can't believe how many hours I spent trying to get some variety in that game. It was great between the lines, but there was no thread behind the line, no threat of a ball over the top. It was connecting 1 and 2 passes here and there, then pass a target man who passes off to a player in stride.

I think FIFA 16's base gameplay with FIFA 23's adherence to tactics and randomness (as in not 100% each time, the variety is key) and FIFA 20's defensive midfield system would be a dream.

I know many hate Hypermotion, but I also remember very clearly how bad the defensive attention was in Ignite, and FIFA 16 wasn't immune to this. I think Hypermotion's concept was on the right track, but they need to modify the 1v1 concept. In truth, and IRL, players do step up "next" as the ball enters their zone, but they don't stand like statues before it happens, they are engaged and on their toes. EA needs to modify the animation here to make that engagement more believable.

Regardless, fun discussion. Always exciting to discuss the potential of something new that will most likely not be too far from the past.
 
Variety yes, but not in depends of physics. FIFA 17 was a good starting point regarding to that, then they removed "logicality" regarding movements.
It's like animations, you can have 1 billions of it, if they don't reproduce what's logic in a man (not even a player) movement...

They're not flies or insect who got a liquid in their body permitting to switch from right to left without inertia or being carried away by their weight if they're going too fast. As an example.
Don't really remember FIFA 16 but IGNITE was a pretty poor engine. I hated it, players didn't got that much weight impact.
Frostbite does, there was inertia and all relative to it (a bit accelerated) but they walked on it litterally, it was OK for UFC or Madden but people wanted reactivity at all cost for Football. Even if it's going completely against physics.

I didn't said they got to put physics "raw" regarding speed or how it's handled : but make some compromise by keeping the realism of it on the game but found some speed of execution instead or new animations (they're doing both right now and we got the "fly" result)

Yes, fun discussion mate.
I love talking about it.

In fact you open your eyes when you came from FIFA 14, even more visible on PS4, and not even the 16 (more animations ok, but physics not automatically handled like on the pretty old engine)
Weight was alright and natural from ball to player and result when they moved was the same. The game needs in the future to feel and visually gets, like before, more "natural"
 
vialli82 said:
Variety yes, but not in depends of physics. FIFA 17 was a good starting point regarding to that, then they removed "logicality" regarding movements.
It's like animations, you can have 1 billions of it, if they don't reproduce what's logic in a man (not even a player) movement...

They're not flies or insect who got a liquid in their body permitting to switch from right to left without inertia or being carried away by their weight if they're going too fast. As an example.
Don't really remember FIFA 16 but IGNITE was a pretty poor engine. I hated it, players didn't got that much weight impact.
Frostbite does, there was inertia and all relative to it (a bit accelerated) but they walked on it litterally, it was OK for UFC or Madden but people wanted reactivity at all cost for Football. Even if it's going completely against physics.

I didn't said they got to put physics "raw" regarding speed or how it's handled : but make some compromise by keeping the realism of it on the game but found some speed of execution instead or new animations (they're doing both right now and we got the "fly" result)

Yes, fun discussion mate.
I love talking about it.

In fact you open your eyes when you came from FIFA 14, even more visible on PS4, and not even the 16 (more animations ok, but physics not automatically handled like on the pretty old engine)
Weight was alright and natural from ball to player and result when they moved was the same. The game needs in the future to feel and visually gets, like before, more "natural"
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Who exactly are you replying to? Or is this your “old man yelling at cloud” moment? ;)
 
To Matt and i add some stuff.

I'm not off thread, then if you considers me as a "old man yelling at cloud", i'm conscious that my posts are a bit boring because they're too technical.
So just stay off the conversation if it's just to mock me on a thread freely, without argument or whatever else. I'm talking seriously, and it's not a matter of taste : just things which are observable since years.

But what i said is verifiable. If you like FIFA 23 : good for you, to me the game as started to became bad (and even more bad version after version) since FIFA 17 which was acceptable.

I still talk about physicality vs super human stuffs ;)

Is permit to talk about the past for explaining the present or not? Because if you follow the line of FIFA, it's clear as water. And not Frostbite or whatever engine fault.
Gameplay choice for X consumers which we don't make part, that's all.
 
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vialli82 said:
To Matt and i add some stuff.

I'm not off thread, then if you considers me as a "old man yelling at cloud", i'm conscious that my posts are a bit boring because they're too technical.
So just stay off the conversation if it's just to mock me on a thread freely, without argument or whatever else. I'm talking seriously, and it's not a matter of taste : just things which are observable since years.

But what i said is verifiable. If you like FIFA 23 : good for you, to me the game as started to became bad (and even more bad version after version) since FIFA 17 which was acceptable.

I still talk about physicality vs super human stuffs ;)

Is permit to talk about the past for explaining the present or not? Because if you follow the line of FIFA, it's clear as water. And not Frostbite or whatever engine fault.
Gameplay choice for X consumers which we don't make part, that's all.
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I don’t disagree with your points, I just wondered who you were talking to.
 
FIFA became bad when FUT success was here.
Offiline wasn't now the priority so the focus is on online gameplay, arcadish gameplay.
It's really a shame than in 2023, footplanting, inertia are again not fixed on FIFA.

My wish becames very low for EAFC24 : if sliders could fixed the speed, it will be a good step.
You play at the morning, at lunch or after dinner, the speed is different.
You can see inertia when the game is out. After the first patch,everything is gone.

Hypermotion brings variety and some kind of random and team spirit on the game.
But not enough.
 
Sorry then @Peter Withe , it's the "old man yelling at cloud" i took bad (lost in translation : in french it's like when you're saying "talking to a wall" or "nobody reads you so stop it" ;) )
 
vialli82 said:
Sorry then @Peter Withe , it's the "old man yelling at cloud" i took bad (lost in translation : in french it's like when you're saying "talking to a wall" or "nobody reads you so stop it" ;) )
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Haha yes I was just wondering if you were ok? I even had to check my ‘ignore’ list to see if you were talking to someone who might be on there, but I don’t have anyone on ignore!

Your English is very, very good.
 
FIFA's 2018-2023, have nice graphics, but the models of the players on gameplay camera are unrealistic...The bodies look like Olive the wife of Popeye :D
I tried FIFA 19 for some days...The replays and the cinematics were so beautiful the faces of the players on zoom camera (cut scenes, replays etc), the bodies but when i was playing on the gameplay's cameras the bodies were sht.. And the off-the-ball run animations are unrealistic...
If FIFA had the pes players bodies on the gameplay camera and the running animations of PES it would be a great game...
 
saturator said:
It's really a shame than in 2023, footplanting, inertia are again not fixed on FIFA.
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Thats because EA are stuck between creating a simulation and an arcade eSports game. Very obviously an issue between the lead designer (who loves skill moves and quick movement), FUT dude and the simulation features that help marketing sell copies.

Problem is that FUT controls the game. FUT is built for eSport. eSport requires user skill not character skill. Therefore simulation is removed for animation speed with low user input delay. Inertia cant be there if thats the case.

Most FUT kiddies dont understand Tactics, Attributes or Stats. So making that side of the game matter would create a huge wave of negativity.

This is why ive always said they should use the technology they have and split offline and online gameplay like they did with Volta. And add a LOT more sliders for those who cant mod the game like I do.
 
Paul-v said:
Thats because EA are stuck between creating a simulation and an arcade eSports game. Very obviously an issue between the lead designer (who loves skill moves and quick movement), FUT dude and the simulation features that help marketing sell copies.

Problem is that FUT controls the game. FUT is built for eSport. eSport requires user skill not character skill. Therefore simulation is removed for animation speed with low user input delay. Inertia cant be there if thats the case.

Most FUT kiddies dont understand Tactics, Attributes or Stats. So making that side of the game matter would create a huge wave of negativity.

This is why ive always said they should use the technology they have and split offline and online gameplay like they did with Volta. And add a LOT more sliders for those who cant mod the game like I do.
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Exactly Paul, you said everything.
If they separed FUT/Volta it will be a win/win for users. FUT fans want only to score again and again. They don't give a damned about stategy, physics.

If they always can score from 30 meters with 3 defenders with the bad foot, no matter for us.

But for us, offline old gamers, boomers like yougers said, we want difficulty to score, we want a battle in the middle, a lot of faults from cpu, crosses with every team, long shoots, realist speed everyday. The list is endless.

In FIFA 23, we can see sometimes the light but it's too short really.
I made a compilation with nice actions from me and the CPU.


I have made a little Channel on YouTube to help the community since FIFA 20. I want to help people to have a little smile sometimes when they are playing or watching FIFA. But EA didn't help us.


The FUTO game is really a disaster, even sliders can't fix it a little.
On FUMA, you can changed some bad habits but the code is so old and so bad, that in a one second, everything changes, but for the bad way.

PS : sorry for my Bad English, in France we sucked so much !😅
 
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