Champions League 2011/12

Kanouté said:
todays barcelona fanboys (and also the ones at Camp Nou) are one of the most disgusting/retarted groups of people in the world I know. they are making me sick with their total lack of any sense of justice towards other teams, other fans and even neutral people. as for the tonight's game, their reactions to cahill's injury was nothing but disgusting. damn, pique is a human but cahill is not?! only because he doesn't wear a blaugrana shirt?! and they've also shown once again that they can be so faceless that they can also react to actings of Drogba as if.. well, you know what it's about. but we know how they are usually reacting if it's Busquets going down even with no contact at all. these guys have no empathy whatsoever. and really, sour grapes thing is just bullshit on this matter. it'd only make the other stupid fanboys feel bitter if they were doing their business with only fairness and respect.
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Didn't like that as well as I said a bit earlier.
 
Mods: don't you see that there is more and more hate on this forum. Why don't you do something.

I like both clubs and since they are hated by so many people, i even like them more. So you can say i was neutral although i always support the underdog, so i slightly wanted Chelsea to go through.

But i feel football has lost.
I know Chelsea scored two beautifull goals (with two sensational passes from Frank Lampard, the best English player of his generation and massively underrated) and a very emotional one (the Torres goal). I know that players like Cech, Cole and Ramirez played two fantastic matches.

But if you are one of the most expensive teams in the world and you play as negative as this...then football has lost. You can play football two ways: try to prevent your opponent from scoring or try to score more goals than your opponent. It's obvious that football was meant to played the second way: outscore your opponent. I'm also absolutely sure that every single of the people who are dancing on Barcelona's grave also prefer football played offensively...yet their hate prevents them from seeing the obvious thing. Football lost yesterday evening.

Did Chelsea not deserve it? Well IMO despite what i'm writing, they deserved it because they fought like lions. But what they have is a Pyrrical victory...The will be massive underdogs in the final and we will see an ugly, cynical final...(i hope it's against Bayern, because that is not a cynical team, whereas Mourinho as coach is very cynical).

About the ref: he didn't do that bad.
One can argue about the penalty, i would not have given it. But in the end Messi missed.
Frank Lampard (and i already said that i like this player a lot) could easily have got a red card in his clash with Cesc Fabregas.

As for the diving: i can't understand the hysterical reactions of people like Flawed 3d Genius (very flawed indeed). Every single player dives. I don't like the way Busquets behaves, but what about Drogba? What about Di Maria and Ronaldo? Sadly diving has become a part of football and as long as the football authorities don't give post factum bans, this will continue. Is this an evil conspiracy in favour of Barcelona? Don't make me laugh.

Do i have a conclusion for this long post?

Yes i have.

All the unreasonable and subjective hate towards Barcelona is a tribute to them. This really is the best team ever...

Oh and i am a Racing Genk fan, a Spurs fan and most of all a football fan.
 
I don't know about hate, but I agree with comments from both sides. Some can be extra harsh and too emotional but I haven't seen anything, direct/personal insults etc, that warrants a red in here. It's all banter to me.

Everyone has their opinion and each have their reasons to like/dislike a a team and their ways. Couple that with last night's emotional game and you get some of the comments you see.

Let's all just chill. Both Barca and anti-Barca fans. And just a reminder that there are mods watching. So refrain from insults or provocation. And get back to reality. It's always better not to say anything when you're too emotional. It's football. We all should know better.
 
Lami said:
I don't know about hate, but I agree with comments from both sides. Some can be extra harsh and too emotional but I haven't seen anything, direct/personal insults etc, that warrants a red in here. It's all banter to me.

Everyone has their opinion and each have their reasons to like/dislike a a team and their ways. Couple that with last night's emotional game and you get some of the comments you see.

Let's all just chill. Both Barca and anti-Barca fans. And just a reminder that there are mods watching. So refrain from insults or provocation. And get back to reality. It's always better not to say anything when you're too emotional. It's football. We all should know better.
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Good post totally agree.

I think the Barca 'hate' (I think that is too strong a word) comes mainly from Barcas arrogance that people don't like. It is one of the reasons I wanted them to lose, with all Arsenals dealings with them, I just don't really like them.

I think people are allowed to not like them, just because they are probably the best team ever, doesn't mean that everybody has to like them? maybe some people are bitter, but again maybe some people like their football, but not other things about them.

But they are the best team in the world and play amazing football. But I think it is better for football that Chelsea won tonight, we needed a change to be honest :))

Saying Barcelona were unlucky over the two legs is all well and good, but Arsenal have been unlucky over the last 7 years. I would say 90% of the games we have lost we have dominated in shots and possession etc but still lost, with teams using the same tactics as Chelsea.

So you can say they were unlucky, or like Arsenal (I hate comparing them, because Arsenal are no where near as good, but just an example :)) ) there is something wrong there, it is not only luck going against you.

Liverpool this season have 'deserved' to win alot of games this season but lost, not unlucky, they just don't have the firepower. There is something else wrong there.

Anyway, Although I really don't like Chelsea I am happy they won, this is what makes football so great. As somebody said earlier (Sorry can't be bothered to go back and look) if the best teams always won, it wouldn't be fun (something like that :PP).
 
Rentboy said:
Abramovich deserves it?!? Am I really reading these words?? I'll be.....
poor Russian billionaire, he splashed out £50m on Torres, I think it's about time he wins the CL! :LOL:

I feel for Sheik Mansour at City too, you know. He got bored with a lot of money and nothing to spend it on. So he bought this club that used to win fuck all, spent shitloads of money and... is not gonna win anything this season. Oh lord, he deserves it :P
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:D

I literally know nothing about the man, he even may be an evil person in fact but he looks so naive & sincere sitting at the stands in Chelsea matches. Bet he'll be happy like a (ultra rich .D) kid in candy store if Chelsea wins the CL trophy, which is his ultimate desire for the team I guess.

p.s. this guy got it so damn right.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...l-be-crucial-for-chelsea-tonight-7670657.html
 
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Bobby,

I don't see the arrogance you see bobby.
I can understand the frustration because this team is just so good.

What i don't buy from intelligent and sensible people is all the conspiracy theories as if UEFA advantages Barcelona.

As long as i watch football (and that is more than 40 year), i've never had the impression that UEFA has advantaged certain teams.

It is a given fact that big teams tend to be advantaged by referee decisions and that happens with Barcelona too (but far less than people pretend it to be IMO), but this has nothing to do with conspiracies...

Is this good for football. In a way i agree with you Bobby, change is good. It wouldn't be good that Barcelona would win the CL 5 or 6 years in a row.

Still, IMO football somehow lost in Nou Camp and as a fan of Arsenal you will understand me.

But all in all: congratulations Chelsea (it's funny that this much hated club has so many sympathy...). Like i already said in a way they deserve to win the CL after their good results (5 semi-finals). Only, this year not for the quality of their football although they aren't without merits and defended splendidly.
 
gerd said:
Bobby,

I don't see the arrogance you see bobby.
I can understand the frustration because this team is just so good.

What i don't buy from intelligent and sensible people is all the conspiracy theories as if UEFA advantages Barcelona.

As long as i watch football (and that is more than 40 year), i've never had the impression that UEFA has advantaged certain teams.

It is a given fact that big teams tend to be advantaged by referee decisions and that happens with Barcelona too (but far less than people pretend it to be IMO), but this has nothing to do with conspiracies...

Is this good for football. In a way i agree with you Bobby, change is good. It wouldn't be good that Barcelona would win the CL 5 or 6 years in a row.

Still, IMO football somehow lost in Nou Camp and as a fan of Arsenal you will understand me.

But all in all: congratulations Chelsea (it's funny that this much hated club has so many sympathy...). Like i already said in a way they deserve to win the CL after their good results (5 semi-finals). Only, this year not for the quality of their football although they aren't without merits and defended splendidly.
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Football lost last night thats for sure but time and time again arsenal dominate like this and still lose.
 
gerd said:
Bobby,

I don't see the arrogance you see bobby.
I can understand the frustration because this team is just so good.

What i don't buy from intelligent and sensible people is all the conspiracy theories as if UEFA advantages Barcelona.

As long as i watch football (and that is more than 40 year), i've never had the impression that UEFA has advantaged certain teams.

It is a given fact that big teams tend to be advantaged by referee decisions and that happens with Barcelona too (but far less than people pretend it to be IMO), but this has nothing to do with conspiracies...

Is this good for football. In a way i agree with you Bobby, change is good. It wouldn't be good that Barcelona would win the CL 5 or 6 years in a row.

Still, IMO football somehow lost in Nou Camp and as a fan of Arsenal you will understand me.

But all in all: congratulations Chelsea (it's funny that this much hated club has so many sympathy...). Like i already said in a way they deserve to win the CL after their good results (5 semi-finals). Only, this year not for the quality of their football although they aren't without merits and defended splendidly.
Click to expand...

Whilst you make some good points, I really do have a problem with this philosophy of 'football lost' on the night, business. What is this notion of just because a team can pass the ball a thousand times, then they deserve to win a game of football anyway?

The object of football is to score goals, not to have possession stats in the high 70s. If by having high possession enables you to score more goals, then this is indeed a 'philosophy' that can be implemented to that teams advantage. This does not however automatically qualify them to win the game though.

To you and many others Barcelona are a beautiful team. To me, they are dead boring. Games pan out the way they do because of Barcelona's style. It is then for the other team to counter it, which more than likely relies on a counter game and converting a few golden chances (of which may be better than Barce's half chances).

The reason why Barcelona's game, to me, is quite dull is that it relies on a heavy offensive/possession game, and a grinding down of the opposition through over-passing, short exchanges, and silky technical ability. But every strategy has its drawbacks, and Barcelon's problem is lack of space.

The beauty of football is that it can be played many ways; but that doesn't give ANY one style more clout than any other. It also doesn't give any team the right to victory. Last night, for me, it was a victory for football, because Guardiola and Barcelona were just outclassed in the tactics department, outclassed in the determination department and outclassed in the heart department. All night Barce played the same way. All night they were suppressed.

What really grinds my gears is this almost 'God-given right' attitude that just because Barce pass the ball well and have greater possession, then this automatically MUST mean that they are/were the better football team. And there's me thinking games of football relied on goals, and as a pre-requisite to this, actually shooting at the net?!??!?

When their ticky tacky (irony) stuff fails, then it's down to diving, cheating and generally just conniving their way to penalties, getting people sent off etc.

Now, if people on here think that THIS is football, then they are as morally bankrupt as Barcelona and their ethos. For me, these days, Barcelona lack any sort of humility and credibility, generally. Football is a game that should have two sides - the physical AND the technical. THERE IS A PLACE FOR BOTH. It seems that FIFA/UEFA are eroding the physical qualities of football year by year, which is where the gripes are coming from by the conspiracy theorists. This in turn, by making the game more Barcelona like universally, perpetuates the whispers and said conspiracy theories about a Barcelona favouritism.

I haven't got a problem with the way ANY team plays. I admire Stoke just as much as Barcelona. It's what makes football, football.

But really and truly, Barcelona supporters need to take a reality check, and realise that their stars are as bad as any team on the planet, with regards to diving/cheating/manipulating the referees. Why wasn't Messi yellow carded yesterday for pushing Lampard over? You can guarantee that if that was the other way around, Lampard would have pushed Messi, Messi would have hit the deck holding his face, 80 thousand people would have been going nuts, and Lampard may have had his marching orders. Fair is fair guys. And until Barcelona start playing the game properly again (and by this I mean not the aesthetics/tactics of the game, rather the spirit of the game), then I will continue to dislike them.
 
gerd said:
Bobby,

I don't see the arrogance you see bobby.
I can understand the frustration because this team is just so good.

What i don't buy from intelligent and sensible people is all the conspiracy theories as if UEFA advantages Barcelona.

As long as i watch football (and that is more than 40 year), i've never had the impression that UEFA has advantaged certain teams.

It is a given fact that big teams tend to be advantaged by referee decisions and that happens with Barcelona too (but far less than people pretend it to be IMO), but this has nothing to do with conspiracies...

Is this good for football. In a way i agree with you Bobby, change is good. It wouldn't be good that Barcelona would win the CL 5 or 6 years in a row.

Still, IMO football somehow lost in Nou Camp and as a fan of Arsenal you will understand me.

But all in all: congratulations Chelsea (it's funny that this much hated club has so many sympathy...). Like i already said in a way they deserve to win the CL after their good results (5 semi-finals). Only, this year not for the quality of their football although they aren't without merits and defended splendidly.
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I don't think the frustration or 'Hate' comes from them being too good (Maybe a few people just blindly hate them for no reason?).

I love the way Barca play and I respect them for that and it is great to see. I think they have some very gifted players and play football the right way....to some extent (Taking away the diving etc and concentrating just on the football). I also disagree with the conspiracy theorists, that is just pie in the sky.

But there are so many other sides to a football club and the ones I have come across and that I have seen when my team has played them or come into contact with them, hasn't been positive, so I don't especially like Barcelona.

I can see reasons why people don't like Barcelona, just because they are maybe the best team ever, doesn't mean people automatically like them and are not proper supporters of football if they don't.

I think they come across as Sanctimonious, Arrogant and in some ways hypocritical (It is not good putting Barcelona in one big pile, of course there are exceptions) and they are not qualities that many people like. But that is just my opinion :))
 
Did Barca, deserve to win ? Did football really lose last night?

I saw a Barca team that failed to innovate, they seemed incapable of changing their style. It's all very well if a short passing game can beat teams like BATE Borisov, and a tactially inept Leverkusen, but they were stifled in Milan, at Stamford Bridge and again last night. Last night they were pushed out wide, sent crosses into the box but couldnt have anyone to actually attack the ball in the air in the Chelsea box. Ultimately a 10 man Chelsea playing a sort of 4-5-0 formation could limit Barca to the edge of the box. Guardiola hasn't learned lessions, the same thing happened when they played Inter 2 years ago - again facing 10 men and again they couldnt break them down. We can look at possesion stats and passes complete ratios until were blue in the face, but at 2-1 for most of the second half how many genuine chances did Barca create ? I only remember Biscuits hitting it over, the penalty and the post - 10 man Chelsea had almost as many chances (Ivanovic header, Torres goal, Torres 1v1 vs Mascherano) in that second half.

Did the Barca coaching staff even look at the Chelsea v Napoli second leg ? That match showed Chelsea's strenght in the air and organistation from set pieces... did he look at the second leg of Chelsea v Benfica, where Chelsea showed how to defend doggedly and then play counter attack (Mereiles's goal)?

A lot of teams that have punched above their weight in the Champions League this season have shown a great ability to shuffle tactics and ideas and play in different styles depending on the occasion. Milan were able to play a quick counter attacking game in the very first match (2-2 v Barca) using the pace of Pato, against Arsenal (the 4-0) they shuffled the style, using the stamina of Boateng and the presence of Ibrahimovic to good effect. Bayern have been able to play tight defensive games home to City and away in Napoli (group stages), generally building in midfield with Schweinsteiger and a lesser extent Müller, but also played a very expansive game making full use of wingers against Basel when they had to overturn a first leg defeat. Other teams like Zenit, CSKA, Napoli were all able to rotate players and change systems, but this team can only play one way it seems.
 
You make some good points edmundo (like always).
The reason IMO football has lost (a litle bit, lets not exagerate) is because the team that went through never really played to win over the two legs.
It's not about playing style. I do like Barcelona's playing style, but i can also enjoy good counter attacking teams or teams who play the long ball excellently (but to be honest i prefer Barca's ticci tacca instead of the long ball, so of course i'm subjective).

Can you imagine every team play like Chelsea played against Barcelona? Would people still watch football? In the long term i doubt it. I also know that teams play that way against Barcelona because Barcelona is that good. Chelsea will not play that way against Wolves or Racing Genk.

I also agree that Barcelona is not the most innovative team and i'm not quite sure that Pep is such a big manager/coach (i didn't say he isn't, mind you).

Cshopland, you make some good points in your last post (although i do not agree), but if i read your post yesterday evening, you are very biased against Barcelona. What Terry did always deserves a red card IMO (he is such a stupid player, in fact i'm over the moon that he will miss the final, there is some poetic justice in it). And i'm not the only one who thinks the same way...i don't see how you can even doubt about that red card.
 
I didn't see this drogba diving, as
Much as Sanchez was. Terry was a deserved red but Sanchez is much a cunt as he is. A lot of weak excuses here by the barca fans, messi tired? Xavi? I suppose the ten men on Chelsea were feeling great ball watching %89 of the time...
 
ccshopland said:
Whilst you make some good points, I really do have a problem with this philosophy of 'football lost' on the night, business. What is this notion of just because a team can pass the ball a thousand times, then they deserve to win a game of football anyway?

The object of football is to score goals, not to have possession stats in the high 70s. If by having high possession enables you to score more goals, then this is indeed a 'philosophy' that can be implemented to that teams advantage. This does not however automatically qualify them to win the game though.

To you and many others Barcelona are a beautiful team. To me, they are dead boring. Games pan out the way they do because of Barcelona's style. It is then for the other team to counter it, which more than likely relies on a counter game and converting a few golden chances (of which may be better than Barce's half chances).

The reason why Barcelona's game, to me, is quite dull is that it relies on a heavy offensive/possession game, and a grinding down of the opposition through over-passing, short exchanges, and silky technical ability. But every strategy has its drawbacks, and Barcelon's problem is lack of space.

The beauty of football is that it can be played many ways; but that doesn't give ANY one style more clout than any other. It also doesn't give any team the right to victory. Last night, for me, it was a victory for football, because Guardiola and Barcelona were just outclassed in the tactics department, outclassed in the determination department and outclassed in the heart department. All night Barce played the same way. All night they were suppressed.

What really grinds my gears is this almost 'God-given right' attitude that just because Barce pass the ball well and have greater possession, then this automatically MUST mean that they are/were the better football team. And there's me thinking games of football relied on goals, and as a pre-requisite to this, actually shooting at the net?!??!?

When their ticky tacky (irony) stuff fails, then it's down to diving, cheating and generally just conniving their way to penalties, getting people sent off etc.

Now, if people on here think that THIS is football, then they are as morally bankrupt as Barcelona and their ethos. For me, these days, Barcelona lack any sort of humility and credibility, generally. Football is a game that should have two sides - the physical AND the technical. THERE IS A PLACE FOR BOTH. It seems that FIFA/UEFA are eroding the physical qualities of football year by year, which is where the gripes are coming from by the conspiracy theorists. This in turn, by making the game more Barcelona like universally, perpetuates the whispers and said conspiracy theories about a Barcelona favouritism.

I haven't got a problem with the way ANY team plays. I admire Stoke just as much as Barcelona. It's what makes football, football.

But really and truly, Barcelona supporters need to take a reality check, and realise that their stars are as bad as any team on the planet, with regards to diving/cheating/manipulating the referees. Why wasn't Messi yellow carded yesterday for pushing Lampard over? You can guarantee that if that was the other way around, Lampard would have pushed Messi, Messi would have hit the deck holding his face, 80 thousand people would have been going nuts, and Lampard may have had his marching orders. Fair is fair guys. And until Barcelona start playing the game properly again (and by this I mean not the aesthetics/tactics of the game, rather the spirit of the game), then I will continue to dislike them.
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It's not God-given right, it's not only because it was Barcelona losing.

I agree with Gerd that football is loosing, the moment you see a team like Chelsea, with the resources they have, playing like that. There is probably more money invested in that Chelsea team than in Barcelona's squad. Why do they have to be so bloody negative? You can reason why a Stoke would play like that, but Chelsea?

I don't like it because it's a style that is based primarily on denying your opposition. It's not proactive, you just wait for your opponents actions. In other words, the coward's way of playing football.

Some will say that they only played like that because a) they won the first leg; b) they were down to 10 men. Those who would say that, would forget that a) they played much like that in the 1st leg at home, and played the same way against Arsenal. And b) they were reduced to 10 men through a fault of their own, namely having a mug like John Terry as captain and leader.

To park the bus and solely defend is one thing, which is not illegal at all, it's a resource, it's there to be used by any team - even one with limitless funds and £50m strikers on the bench, as baffling as it can be. But the cheap tatics, antics and dirty play is what I can't condone and never will.

A player with Terry's experience doing that is just beyond comprehension, and I'm glad he was caught. But when I see Frank Lampard kicking everybody and getting away with horrible challenges such as the one on Cesc Fabregas and, especially Drogba, who was diving, time wasting since the first half, feigning injury, putting his hand to the ball, and much more.... when you look to the fact they stayed on the pitch, it's disgraceful.

For me, football has lost indeed. In no way I can call what Chelsea practiced football.
 
Changing a team's playphilosophy is difficult and dangerous, Barcelona is a perfectly timed machine and master of the short-pass-game. Changing that would require basically a new Barcelona-team and that will happen eventually.

Barcelona's play is of course now predictable, nontheless it is still very difficult to beat them or stall them. Chelsea achieved it by completely parking the bus and having luck. If Barca's strikers were in top mental form Chelsea would have lost. Just look at what big goal-opportunities Messi hasn't exploited.

I think Messi is mentally tired out a bit, in his best state he would have made these goals and Chelsea would have been forced to open up their game and the whole match would have played out differently.

Sometimes it's not the best team that wins, this is football, everything can happen.
 
gerd said:
You make some good points edmundo (like always).
The reason IMO football has lost (a litle bit, lets not exagerate) is because the team that went through never really played to win over the two legs.
It's not about playing style. I do like Barcelona's playing style, but i can also enjoy good counter attacking teams or teams who play the long ball excellently (but to be honest i prefer Barca's ticci tacca instead of the long ball, so of course i'm subjective).

Can you imagine every team play like Chelsea played against Barcelona? Would people still watch football? In the long term i doubt it. I also know that teams play that way against Barcelona because Barcelona is that good. Chelsea will not play that way against Wolves or Racing Genk.

I also agree that Barcelona is not the most innovative team and i'm not quite sure that Pep is such a big manager/coach (i didn't say he isn't, mind you).

Cshopland, you make some good points in your last post (although i do not agree), but if i read your post yesterday evening, you are very biased against Barcelona. What Terry did always deserves a red card IMO (he is such a stupid player, in fact i'm over the moon that he will miss the final, there is some poetic justice in it). And i'm not the only one who thinks the same way...i don't see how you can even doubt about that red card.
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Gerd, I don't even like John Terry. My problem is, the player reactions. My 15 month old son has more bumps (and harder) than these 'athletes'.

The question of violent conduct and play acting is becoming all too hazy now, and to be honest, it's the football governing bodies fault.

Let's look at the incident. Did John Terry kick out at Sanchis? Yes. Now the next part is opinion on whether or not you agree with the rules etc. Did Terry deserve to be red carded? I would argue maybe, and maybe only. It was a slight lash out, but it wasn't intentionally malicious that it would hurt Sanchis to any degree. Sanchis went down like Terry had speared him two footed. THIS IS MY PROBLEM. And this is where football has to change, although it won't, and it will probably get worse as the game becomes a Barcelona style touch football-fest. Not everyone wants to see football which is purely technical, and makes tackling a forgotten art. I want little niggles and confrontations between two 'blokes'.

I'll bet Barcelona were doing all sorts to Chelsea players all night, are you seriously telling me that Puyol and Mascherano, Alves and the rest are all little angels? Come off it. It's just the majority of the Chelsea team didn't go down like an exocet missile had hit them (apart from Drogba, who seems to spend around 70% of the game on the floor).

Sanchis on contact after Terry had touched him was laughable. He should have been sent off for simulation. Fabregas should have been sent off after the penalty dive.

Now, if the governing body adheres to these set of rules, then play acting, diving, cheating will stop after a month. There may be tons of red and yellow cards brandishes, but it will eventually register with coaches and players that cheating is unacceptable.

Now, you could argue that what Terry did was 'cheating', that's fine, it's a point worth considering, and you may be right. But these kind of niggling things go on all game. I disagree with this notion of 'you can't do that in this day and age'. Do what exactly? The contact was so minimal that my baby son would have laughed at Terry.

Football is becoming so sterile, so un-physical.

Sanchez went down because he knew that my doing so would give more weight to the decision if it was seen, not only to the officials but to the 80 thousand people watching. Dramatic cheating.

So what's the solution. I don't know to be honest. Cheating in football goes hand in glove now, and I get sickened by it every game I watch. It's honestly such a turn off now, that with each and every season it just sickens me further. This is just a moot point, but after watching sports like rugby, boxing, MMA, etc etc, football is just laughable.

The bottom line is that cheating, simulation, diving etc etc should be dealt with in its most severest form. You send Cesc off last night and give him a five game ban, and let's see if you dives again in a hurry, likewise all the cheats that benefit.
 
ccshopland said:
Whilst you make some good points, I really do have a problem with this philosophy of 'football lost' on the night, business. What is this notion of just because a team can pass the ball a thousand times, then they deserve to win a game of football anyway?

The object of football is to score goals, not to have possession stats in the high 70s. If by having high possession enables you to score more goals, then this is indeed a 'philosophy' that can be implemented to that teams advantage. This does not however automatically qualify them to win the game though.

To you and many others Barcelona are a beautiful team. To me, they are dead boring. Games pan out the way they do because of Barcelona's style. It is then for the other team to counter it, which more than likely relies on a counter game and converting a few golden chances (of which may be better than Barce's half chances).

The reason why Barcelona's game, to me, is quite dull is that it relies on a heavy offensive/possession game, and a grinding down of the opposition through over-passing, short exchanges, and silky technical ability. But every strategy has its drawbacks, and Barcelon's problem is lack of space.

The beauty of football is that it can be played many ways; but that doesn't give ANY one style more clout than any other. It also doesn't give any team the right to victory. Last night, for me, it was a victory for football, because Guardiola and Barcelona were just outclassed in the tactics department, outclassed in the determination department and outclassed in the heart department. All night Barce played the same way. All night they were suppressed.

What really grinds my gears is this almost 'God-given right' attitude that just because Barce pass the ball well and have greater possession, then this automatically MUST mean that they are/were the better football team. And there's me thinking games of football relied on goals, and as a pre-requisite to this, actually shooting at the net?!??!?

When their ticky tacky (irony) stuff fails, then it's down to diving, cheating and generally just conniving their way to penalties, getting people sent off etc.

Now, if people on here think that THIS is football, then they are as morally bankrupt as Barcelona and their ethos. For me, these days, Barcelona lack any sort of humility and credibility, generally. Football is a game that should have two sides - the physical AND the technical. THERE IS A PLACE FOR BOTH. It seems that FIFA/UEFA are eroding the physical qualities of football year by year, which is where the gripes are coming from by the conspiracy theorists. This in turn, by making the game more Barcelona like universally, perpetuates the whispers and said conspiracy theories about a Barcelona favouritism.

I haven't got a problem with the way ANY team plays. I admire Stoke just as much as Barcelona. It's what makes football, football.

But really and truly, Barcelona supporters need to take a reality check, and realise that their stars are as bad as any team on the planet, with regards to diving/cheating/manipulating the referees. Why wasn't Messi yellow carded yesterday for pushing Lampard over? You can guarantee that if that was the other way around, Lampard would have pushed Messi, Messi would have hit the deck holding his face, 80 thousand people would have been going nuts, and Lampard may have had his marching orders. Fair is fair guys. And until Barcelona start playing the game properly again (and by this I mean not the aesthetics/tactics of the game, rather the spirit of the game), then I will continue to dislike them.
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:SAL:
 
Terry tried to give Sanchez a dead leg in order to slow him down, that's cheating in my opinion, Sanchez theatrics just brought attention to it and I don't blame him for that in the slightest.

Cesc on the other hand, very similar to Ashley Young and I don't like it one bit.
 
ccshopland said:
This is just a moot point, but after watching sports like rugby, boxing, MMA, etc etc, football is just laughable.
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:LOL: This is so true. I only watched Boxing and martial arts in the summer and then when the football season started, it was so annoying to get used to the diving and overacting of football but then I got used to it again. I get your frustration. :D
 
ccshopland said:
Gerd, I don't even like John Terry. My problem is, the player reactions. My 15 month old son has more bumps (and harder) than these 'athletes'.

The question of violent conduct and play acting is becoming all too hazy now, and to be honest, it's the football governing bodies fault.

Let's look at the incident. Did John Terry kick out at Sanchis? Yes. Now the next part is opinion on whether or not you agree with the rules etc. Did Terry deserve to be red carded? I would argue maybe, and maybe only. It was a slight lash out, but it wasn't intentionally malicious that it would hurt Sanchis to any degree. Sanchis went down like Terry had speared him two footed. THIS IS MY PROBLEM. ...
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The problem is that it is very hard to decide if someone is diving, exaggerating. The referee doesn't have the luxury we have on TV to use slomotion-replays to look in miniscule detail if there is a diving or how strong the attack really was... It all happens in less than a second and if the referree isn't standing right near it fully concentrated on those two involved, it is very hard to decide.

I prefer that someone sees the red card for a deliberate attack, be it strong or weak, than seeing someone being booked for supposedly faking it and then we see in the replay he wasn't faking at all and was seriously fouled.

The solution out of this would be to introduce the video-proof, but this is a controversial topic.
 
Zeem said:
YouTube - Gary Neville Orgasm when Fernando Torres through on goal

You can see Torres running forward at the beginning of the video. Yeah that was suicide from Barcelona. Puyol was in Chelsea's box and Busquets(?) was way ahead of Torres but that was min 90 so you must go all attack.
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At that point it didn't matter, Barca had to go all attack. The problem is they didn't use their opportunities well and the other is they didn't push hard enough for it, by risking something.

But do you see the pass of the Chelsea player to Torres at the end? He used his hand to get the ball under control before making the pass to Torres so if there was video-proof, this goal wouldn't have been legitimate, but Barca would have still lost the ticket.
 
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I can't believe people are questioning Terry's red card in here. Like it has been said, the pure hate towards Barcelona are clouding people's judgement.

Contact is allowed and more than normal in football, I agree. But it is also a sport played with a ball. To deliberately kick a guy from behind in an off the ball incident is NOT normal!
What's wrong with the world? How can people even begin to question that decision? That's a clear cut case of straight red, and if UEFA were serious, he would get more than a 3 match ban.

It may be a contact sport, but it is NOT ok to kick somebody up the arse from behind. I don't like Sanchez too much either, but to those saying it wasn't nothing, try getting a knee up against your tailbone and tell us later whether it hurts or not.

Others have been suggesting Terry wanted to give him a dead leg to slow him down? Is that even a tactic?? To me it's pure thuggery.

John Terry is a cunt and if I was a professional player I would love to headbutt him or give him a massive slap on his ear from behind in an off the ball incident, but it doesn't mean I would actually do it, because it is NOT allowed, NOT acceptable and my team and myself would be punished.
 
Rentboy said:
thers have been suggesting Terry wanted to give him a dead leg to slow him down? Is that even a tactic?? To me it's pure thuggery.
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I said that and wasn't excusing it as a tactic at all, in fact quite the opposite, I said it was cheating.

It's something you'll encounter quite often in Sunday League football over here, but you don't really expect to get away with it in the Champions League semi-final.
 
Wilko22 said:
I said that and wasn't excusing it as a tactic at all, in fact quite the opposite, I said it was cheating.

It's something you'll encounter quite often in Sunday League football over here, but you don't really expect to get away with it in the Champions League semi-final.
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Yes, I saw that you said it's cheating. I partially agree with you. Cheating is diving, time-wasting... kicking a guy off the ball is cheating and assault. And it was from behind, which further shows Terry's character.

What gets on my nerves is hearing the likes of Graeme Souness saying that as an excuse. I think he said the same yesterday, about giving a dead leg, but he said it in a way that was actually condoning Terry's behaviour typical of a horrible cunt.
 
Souness is a relic of the stone age he would better shut up.

Cshopland, i partially agree with you about the diving and the play acting.

But the point is that when Terry had physical contact with Sanchez (and there was more contact than you think), the ball was miles away...there was no reason to have the slightest form of contact. Like someone in here said: it was an ect of thuggery.

I compare it with the charge of Marcelo on Muller. There was debate wether Marcelo actually made contact with Muller. For me that was irrelevant. It was very clear what his intention was: to go for the player out of frustration. That is always a red card, contact or no contact.

I have nothing against contact but players should always go for the ball, in both examples they blatantly didn't go for the ball. The playacting is totally irrelevant in these cases.

If a player gets sent off (or his own team benefits from the playacting) because his opponent has been playacting (Rodwell against Suarez comes to my mind) then the playacting player should get a post factum ban. Yesterday this was maybe the case with Fabregas and the penalty (i'm not quite sure). If Fabregas dived, he should have a post factum ban. The fact that Messi missed the penalty doesn't matter at all.
 
s . Some prefer counter-attacking , long ball . I bet those think long throw-ins are clever almost a rugby style of football . Thats the problem some prefer hard tackles they want rugby brought into football I rather passing the ball around the pitch 50 times then leg breaking thuggery tactics, but then again I dont rate rugby.


I do think barça's passing has gotten a lot slower than before and no steel in the middle like they had w toure.So messi didnt have 110% like always, he was coming into the middle to help in that shift which it took a toll and once goals dont go in after 20 shots on target things sort of build up against you n gies more help to the oppossing team. Chels had no plans in attack they knew a frustrating barça might be expose, that is NOT a tactic , that is hoping for luck ....hence Terry hurting player, Frank too on Fab tackles to slow down the @ttacking. Chels game plan did the job , because barça's failed.


The final is another thing w so many important players out Chels tactics wont change. Like I said the final is today btw RM vs Munich
 
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