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Arsenal Thread

Ref just followed the rules, if you want to blame some1, blame RvP for his stupid decision. He knows that he can received a yellow card for that, the excuse of "i din't hear it" is pathetic. About the penalty, Pedro clearly tackled by Koscielny. Don't even see a blink of doubt there.
Btw, if some1 wants to whine about the referee, do it over that penalty over Messi that wasn't even a foul.

Ref did what he was supposed to do, don't cry about it. Cry over your unbalanced team and Wenger that clearly had the idea of emulating Mourinhos Inter but he forgot that he doesn't have the same luck that Mou had last year neither the same disciplined players.
 
Neoexodus how thick does that sound blame Robin? from whistle to kick was a second. A SECOND! unless the whistle blew before the offside occurred.
 
The second yellow to RvP was a bit harsh. For God sake the guy did not even hear the whistle.

By the way Neo, which team was you rooting for?
 
VanderVoort said:
Sore losers. Red card is a joke anyway, Barça should have won 10-0. Arsenal score 1 goal in zero shoots.
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jog on! you wum mug no one in here is sore about Barca winning! you were the 1st in here upset when barca lost at the emirates. So move along your boring words do not construct well.
 
Its not a question of being harsh or what not, its a question of following the rules. For gods sake, if he shows the yellow he is a barcafanboy that wants to screw Arsenal, but if he doesn't show he is a shitty ref that doesn't even follow the rules. Come on people, have some coherence.

TSO, Barcelona.
 
Best team defonately won. But that ref decision was a complete joke. Totally killed the game. We tried to defend the first half and did well until fab fucked up. Second half you could see we were going for it until the ref made that stupid decision. But apart from that no doubt that barca should go through. Just a shame the ref was a Dick.
 
Dude even with 11 vs 11 Arsenal couldn't make 3 passes. Its pathetic to blame the referee. He helped the home team but there was a clear penalty on Messi in the first half and he could have send off Koncsewhateverly.
 
Abidal grabbed Van Persie by the throat more like a push than trying to choke him out. I bet you think that`s normal then?
 
Neo, a good ref manages to combine rules with a good measure of common sense and the skills to deescalate situations in general. he should have gone to RvP and give him a proper warning, make him understand that one more thing like that (or anything else for that matter) will get him his second yellow. if refs are just about following the black and white rules then you might as well use a robot to referee football games as that could do it the way you want it to be done. people have to remeber that football is played by humans. yes there are rules and yes they have to be followed, but most of them arent as black and white as you make them out to be. there is plenty of grey area within which a good referee still makes good decisions.

of course, strictly speaking, his decision was, if the rule book is the only thing you go by, correct. but should referees really just learn the rules off by heart and then blindfold themselves and ignore all circumstances to make decisions? i would disagree, but that is just my opinion. in my view good referees know how to manage situations like that in such a way that noone will ever mention it after the match.
 
Fuck off about following the rules, common sense needs to play a part apart from you 99% of people know that second yellow was ridiculous. 1 second between the whistle and the strike shows you how ridiculous it was. I admit the best team won but if you can't admit that second yellow was ridiculous you have a problem.
 
So does Van Persie with Alves... if you blame the referee to get knocked out and not what you did bad and what the rival did well, you won't improve. I understand gunners frustation but its ridiculous, Barça were far better team.
 
ludwig said:
Neo, a good ref manages to combine rules with a good measure of common sense and the skills to deescalate situations in general. he should have gone to RvP and give him a proper warning, make him understand that one more thing like that (or anything else for that matter) will get him his second yellow. if refs are just about following the black and white rules then you might as well use a robot to referee football games as that could do it the way you want it to be done. people have to remeber that football is played by humans. yes there are rules and yes they have to be followed, but most of them arent as black and white as you make them out to be. there is plenty of grey area within which a good referee still makes good decisions.

of course, strictly speaking, his decision was, if the rule book is the only thing you go by, correct. but should referees really just learn the rules off by heart and then blindfold themselves and ignore all circumstances to make decisions? i would disagree, but that is just my opinion. in my view good referees know how to manage situations like that in such a way that noone will ever mention it after the match.
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Finally a proper answer. Christ, at least some1 went to school and knows how to properly expose their ideas..

I can understand that and i surely respect your opinion and your view about it but mine is that the ref, above all should follow the rules, for his own safety and for the games safety as well. But as i said, i can understand your point and i respect it.
 
Neoexodus said:
Finally a proper answer. Christ, at least some1 went to school and knows how to properly expose their ideas..

I can understand that and i surely respect your opinion and your view about it but mine is that the ref, above all should follow the rules, for his own safety and for the games safety as well. But as i said, i can understand your point and i respect it.
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you are very condescending, if you actually listen to what we have all said, we all admit barcelona deserved to win, but the ref made a silly decision.

All of us here have basically said that Barcelona deserved to win. But the refs decision was beyond harsh. He needs to be 100% sure that Van persie is kicking the ball away after hearing the whistle. The ref blew the whistle 1 second before Van persie kicked it, can you really say the ref was acting within the rules. You sound silly. If everything was done exactly to the rules at least 4 people would have been sent off in that match etc etc. If you are that narrow minded to not think that common sense has to be part of a referees armoury, then I know that you do not know what the hell you are talking about in regards to watching a football match.
 
BobbyBox said:
you are very condescending, if you actually listen to what we have all said, we all admit barcelona deserved to win, but the ref made a silly decision.

All of us here have basically said that Barcelona deserved to win. But the refs decision was beyond harsh. He needs to be 100% sure that Van persie is kicking the ball away after hearing the whistle. The ref blew the whistle 1 second before Van persie kicked it, can you really say the ref was acting within the rules. You sound silly. If everything was done exactly to the rules at least 4 people would have been sent off in that match etc etc. If you are that narrow minded to not think that common sense has to be part of a referees armoury, then I know that you do not know what the hell you are talking about in regards to watching a football match.
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And where did you see me say that barça didn't deserve to win?

I sound silly because i support the ref following the rules? lol Ok, then i admit im a silly man for following rules.
I previously said that i understand that people say he could have kept the 2nd card on his pocket, but saying that he was terrible for making that decision.., now thats whats bugging me. Not the fact that barca deserved it or not, the simples fact that people are blamming the ref for a decision which was correct. I understand your point since its the same as ludwig but i still think that the ref made a right decision. Its debatable but it no reason to call him a bad ref or whatever.

Btw beboq, if im the "ref guru" your the pointless guru. Bring something constructive to the table and then we will talk.
 
Neoexodus said:
And where did you see me say that barça didn't deserve to win?

I sound silly because i support the ref following the rules? lol Ok, then i admit im a silly man for following rules.
I previously said that i understand that people say he could have kept the 2nd card on his pocket, but saying that he was terrible for making that decision.., now thats whats bugging me. Not the fact that barca deserved it or not, the simples fact that people are blamming the ref for a decision which was correct. I understand your point since its the same as ludwig but i still think that the ref made a right decision. Its debatable but it no reason to call him a bad ref or whatever.

Btw beboq, if im the "ref guru" your the pointless guru. Bring something constructive to the table and then we will talk.
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My point was that you were saying we were blaming the ref for the loss. But we were not, so I don't know why you are highlighting my text?

I think the rule is if the player kicks the ball away after the whistle is blown, then it results in a yellow. The kick away is descent as they are wasting time etc. To say that a player kicked the ball 1 second after the ref blew the whistle and had an attempt on goal goes against this rule is highly debatable and doesn't fit with the ref following the rules imo (and alot of other peoples opinion)

But as I said you are probably in the 0.001% that thinks that the sending off was a fair decision, thats up to you.

I still think the second half would have been completely different as we had to attack, but we will never know because of the stupid ref decision and the 0 chances and the dominance of Barca will always go against us and rightly so.

This Barca team are phenomenal and play an attacking, passing and pressing game that I have never seen before and is near enough impossible to counter, unless they have an off game. Fair play to them and good luck for the next games.

If Spurs get through and you play them, I am so hoping you spank them as I think I will kill myslef if Spurs win the Champions league.
 
I don't think any Arsenal fans here are bitter. They're sensible chaps and they can see that over the 2 legs, as many predicted and themselves too when draw was made (very pessimistic about it) Barca were the better team, they're just not happy with some decisions.

I understand their frustration but personally I don't even agree with them. I think overall, Arsenal got the better of decisions anyway. Penalty 1st half on Messi gone unnoticed and hey the whole reason Arsenal were leading from the first leg was thanks to a perfectly ON-side goal fro Messi that was ruled out anyway. Otherwise there was even no lead to protect and no bus to park.

So on the balance of things, Barca were the unluckier side with referees anyway. But they have themselves to blame for missing TONS of chances in first and 2nd leg. Had Messi and Co. not been so wasteful, they could've embarrassed the Gunners with a 10-3 score or something overall and send out a much STRONGER message to the rest of the teams.

In regards to the red card debate, I'm personally of the opinion that Robin should've been sent off. For a couple reasons.

1) He was STUPID to get that first yellow in the first place and considering how CYNICAL it was when he basically put his fingers in Alves' eye, he coudl've been sent off right then and there. He lost his cool and temper and did that on purpose and some refs would've sent him off for that though Alves made most of it of course being the dirty player he is. Nonetheless, he lost his temper, gave in to emotion and attacked a player.

2. His excuse of 'I couldn't hear the whistle' is pure BS! You could tell by the way he controlled and shot the ball that he knew the whistle had gone. You're telling me the great forward that is Van Persie would've given a crap shot with his RIGHT foot in that GLORIOUS opportunity ? No... he wouldn't have. He would've composed himself as he was literally one-on-one with not a defender close enough, take a touch towards center and slot it beautifully using that talented LEFT foot into corner of the net. But he knew the whistle had gone.... yet he kicked it having been pissed off still and then of course used the age old I couldn't hear excuse. If he hadn't heard it, he would've performed much better in that instant!

3. This whole ONE second thing is being blown out of proportion. It's not about one second, it's about continuing with play defying the referees' orders and then kicking the ball away which if you wanna count seconds would take longer for ball to come back into play (a ball boy throws another ball back), we're getting too technical and silly here counting seconds, it's not about that. It's about a man being on a yellow card, a stupid yellow card once again failing to control his emotions and costing his team. Him being vice-captain and one of the more experienced players.

If I were an Arsenal fan, instead of blaming the ref, I'd blame van Persie for his antics in the first half and not being to keep his composure. He let Arsenal fans down today as did Fabregas and is did Wenger with his choices. I don't get the Bendtner thing either. Chamakh should've come on instead and earlier too. He was one of the top-scorers in CL last year for Bordeaux and could've won aerial battles if nothing else (he's also faster and more skillful than Nick) against likes of Busquets and nod ball to his opponents.
 
No reason to call him a bad ref?

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And guess who was sent off?

BUT, I doubt the outcome would have been different had the ref not made any mistakes. All credit to Barcelona who played us off the park with their slick passing, immense pressure and good control of the ref by going to the ground in every 50-50 challenge.

AW responded too late to RVP's red card, Rosicky should have gone immediately, he was abysmal. Not much to complain about the rest of the team, really. They played as expected.

EXCEPT Cesc Fabregas, he can fuck right off. I defended him arguing with some friends who thought he was absent in the first game, but today's performance was a disrespect to all Arsenal fans. He didn't even attempt to tackle Iniesta after losing the ball like that!
 
PLF said:
I don't think any Arsenal fans here are bitter. They're sensible chaps and they can see that over the 2 legs, as many predicted and themselves too when draw was made (very pessimistic about it) Barca were the better team, they're just not happy with some decisions.

I understand their frustration but personally I don't even agree with them. I think overall, Arsenal got the better of decisions anyway. Penalty 1st half on Messi gone unnoticed and hey the whole reason Arsenal were leading from the first leg was thanks to a perfectly ON-side goal fro Messi that was ruled out anyway. Otherwise there was even no lead to protect and no bus to park.

So on the balance of things, Barca were the unluckier side with referees anyway. But they have themselves to blame for missing TONS of chances in first and 2nd leg. Had Messi and Co. not been so wasteful, they could've embarrassed the Gunners with a 10-3 score or something overall and send out a much STRONGER message to the rest of the teams.

In regards to the red card debate, I'm personally of the opinion that Robin should've been sent off. For a couple reasons.

1) He was STUPID to get that first yellow in the first place and considering how CYNICAL it was when he basically put his fingers in Alves' eye, he coudl've been sent off right then and there. He lost his cool and temper and did that on purpose and some refs would've sent him off for that though Alves made most of it of course being the dirty player he is. Nonetheless, he lost his temper, gave in to emotion and attacked a player.

2. His excuse of 'I couldn't hear the whistle' is pure BS! You could tell by the way he controlled and shot the ball that he knew the whistle had gone. You're telling me the great forward that is Van Persie would've given a crap shot with his RIGHT foot in that GLORIOUS opportunity ? No... he wouldn't have. He would've composed himself as he was literally one-on-one with not a defender close enough, take a touch towards center and slot it beautifully using that talented LEFT foot into corner of the net. But he knew the whistle had gone.... yet he kicked it having been pissed off still and then of course used the age old I couldn't hear excuse. If he hadn't heard it, he would've performed much better in that instant!

3. This whole ONE second thing is being blown out of proportion. It's not about one second, it's about continuing with play defying the referees' orders and then kicking the ball away which if you wanna count seconds would take longer for ball to come back into play (a ball boy throws another ball back), we're getting too technical and silly here counting seconds, it's not about that. It's about a man being on a yellow card, a stupid yellow card once again failing to control his emotions and costing his team. Him being vice-captain and one of the more experienced players.

If I were an Arsenal fan, instead of blaming the ref, I'd blame van Persie for his antics in the first half and not being to keep his composure. He let Arsenal fans down today as did Fabregas and is did Wenger with his choices. I don't get the Bendtner thing either. Chamakh should've come on instead and earlier too. He was one of the top-scorers in CL last year for Bordeaux and could've won aerial battles if nothing else (he's also faster and more skillful than Nick) against likes of Busquets and nod ball to his opponents.
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I agree in some respects, the whole thing about Barca finishing their chances and being 10-3 up is just ifs and but. Most of Arsenals game this season that we have lost in the premiership we should have won about 20-1 but that is just the way it goes. If arsenal and Barca finished all of there chances in their respective leagues they would win most games at leat 10-1 etc.

I do agree about the refs decisions over the two legs, but the major decisions did go their way. The Van persie red being of high note. Abidal should have been sent off etc etc. If all rules were followed then both legs would have been completely different. Alot of the little decisions went barca's way, which broke down play alot more and stifled play. Like the going down easily etc. This I think had a more profound effect on the two legs as a whole.

Today in the first half we defended well in the first half until the mistake by cesc. Second half we were going to attack more, but couldnt do that after the sending off. So we will never know.

But ifs and buts dont mean anything, Barca are through and deservedly so, so that should be the end of the matter.
 
One of the things I don't get is why Wenger put Rosicky in the starting team and not Arshavin. It was a clearly "let's park the bus" sign to the team. And at half-time, going 1 down, why not put Chamakh from scratch? We're infamous for our weak aerial play, we even scored an own goal today!

So, I think Wenger thought that maybe with a happy counter in 90 minutes all could be saved. To me the key has been the absence of Walcott. He was really a threat and someone who could have destroyed us. So, after all, Walcott proved to be more important for Arsenal than Pique or Puyol for us.

And no one is talking about the other key moment of the game: the injury of the keeper. What a bad luck streak for Arsenal, really. I feel sorry for your extreme bad luck. I really think football owes you a big title.
 
Credit to Wilshere, Almunia and Nasri. They were the stand out performers for Arsenal. Others were decent at best, some average and likes of Fabregas, poor!

Poor Sczesczny. Nobody's talking about him. But he was gutted to have to leave I bet.

BobbyBox said:
I agree in some respects, the whole thing about Barca finishing their chances and being 10-3 up is just ifs and but. Most of Arsenals game this season that we have lost in the premiership we should have won about 20-1 but that is just the way it goes. If arsenal and Barca finished all of there chances in their respective leagues they would win most games at leat 10-1 etc.
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No the Arsenal games I've seen would finish more like 10-5 or 10-4 for Arsenal if chances were taken by both sides where as Barca really do dominate and would be like 20-1 if they were to take theirs because Arsenal's defense is nowhere near as solid and they don't press like Barca does. Other teams create a lot more chances against Gunners than others do against Barca.

Nonetheless, like you said, this is all ifs and buts and doesn't really matter anyway. But yeah Arsenal could use better finishing and being wasteful as well and if Chamakh got more playing time like at the beginning of season before he lost some confidence, it'd help I think.
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I do agree about the refs decisions over the two legs, but the major decisions did go their way. The Van persie red being of high note. Abidal should have been sent off etc etc. If all rules were followed then both legs would have been completely different. Alot of the little decisions went barca's way, which broke down play alot more and stifled play. Like the going down easily etc. This I think had a more profound effect on the two legs as a whole.
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The bolded part is where we really disagree I suppose. My very point from the previous post was the fact that if anything, Arsenal got the better of the referee mistakes/decisions over two legs. Even if I were to agree that Van Persie' sending off shouldn't have happened (which I don't because for me while it's harsh it should be done as he knew what he was doing and was on a yellow so should've been more careful), I still couldn't agree.

We're talking about disallowed GOALS here. Like Messi's in first leg and a penalty which would be probably converted in 1st half and not to mention that should've resulted in Koscielny's 2nd yellow card and so a sending off. Don't know how ref can give that penalty but no yellow card in that instant!

BobbyBox said:
Today in the first half we defended well in the first half until the mistake by cesc. Second half we were going to attack more, but couldnt do that after the sending off. So we will never know.
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That's a HUGE IF and But in itself. You were going to. ? We're talking about supposed plans now? Yeah maybe. Maybe not. We don't know. What we do know is in all the time before van Persie did go off, Valdes didn't have to make a single save and finally even when the goal came, it was a stupid own goal, so Gunners really created nothing except deliver a good corner in the box for the goal.
 
I just don`t understand how ppl read a few lines and then run off to type. Neo fair enough I`m pointless no offense taken from that jibe . Go support your Clubs! I`m sure one of them will win. That was pointless no pun in tended.


At 1-1 the balance was going against Arsenal as we knew it would. Defending is not our strong point never was ,but we did well to almost hold the line. Song was missing, the grit that holds the defense department more in tact. The ref did not handle the bust up well enough and robin was very upset imagine being choked and nothing given. I understand RVP emotional state atm I wont blame him for trying to get cheeky back. The ref is not all to blame just giving a 2nd yellow is just harsh. When a ref can handle a bust up well and take control players feel justice was serve is what my pointless view is.

I even said Wenger would sit back and soak up the pressure that was Plan A n B.
 
PLF said:
Unlike Gerd, I completely disagree.

If football was a beauty competition, then yes, maybe. But it's not. Arsenal came 2nd in their group behind Shakhtar so weren't even the best in a 4-team group which wasn't the strongest either. Now unless they can get past Barcelona, there's no reason they should be in the final. What have they done to deserve being in the final 2 of Europe? This statement is friendly and a nice gesture of sportsmanship by drekkard but unwarranted and undeserved in my opinion.

Results speak for themselves and so far, Shakhtar even deserves to be in the final more than they do and that's just one team.
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Spot on.
 
That sending off was a fucking joke. If the ref was following the rules by the book, why didn't anyone get booked in that fracas during the 1st half? Especially Abidal, that fucking tool!

Van Persie shot on goal in a split second decision. Also, let's not forget there are ball boys ready to replace a ball to Valdez, that wouldn't cost 2 seconds to do! As Bobby pointed out, just a bit of common sense wouldn't hurt. Put yourself into RVP's boots. He's a striker, he was itching to shoot on goal, which he didn't get to do during the whole match :P
I truly believe he didn't do it to waste time, this is preposterous.

By doing that, the ref completely ruined the game, by reducing to 10 men a team that was already clearly inferior.
The penalty on Messi in the 1st half did happen, but the ref gave that dodgy one on Pedro in the 2nd half as compensation.

Nothing is an excuse for Arsenal's poor display, but of all teams, Barcelona is the one who doesn't need to be benefited like that.

On a side note, Wenger was a bit of a coward today. Arshavin only came on when it was all lost.
And Bendtner? When the match was 3-1 and Barca had wasted loads of chances, Arsenal had a unique chance to punish them. But Bendtner's first touch is hideous, and that has never really evolved in his game. He can't be trusted to put away chances like that.
 
There is no doubt that Barcelona were the better team.
I don't understand why Wenger is criticized, if Arsenal played offensive in Nou Camp, they would have been destroyed. It's not because Arsenal play the second best football in Europe that they are the second best team (and that's why PLF is right about the final, what i wanted to say is that as a fan of their football i would have liked to see this match as a final...but yes there are definitely better teams in Europe than Arsenal).

I also agree with PLF about the ref. Yes Van Persie's sending off was harsh, but IMO he should already have been sent off by the time he got his second yellow card (Abidal too, i know). I don't think Arsenal would have reason to complain if Barcelona would have got a penalty in the first half and by that time Koscielny would have got a second yellow card. Both Koscielny and Van Persie showed yesterday that they miss maturity (and maybe cynicism) to play in matches like this. Koscielny's yellow was very, very stupid after barely 15 minutes and miles away from the goal...As for Van Persie, he totally lost it...

At last i don't get why Fabregas is getting so much stick from the Arsenal fans. Yes, he gave away the ball for the first goal...things like that happen. He was more or less invisible? Yes, i agree, but Arsenal's midfield was totally outplayed...people here are saying that Wilshere was the best man on the pitch...he played a decent match, but i think one should search the best man on the pitch in the other team and then there are 6 or 7 candidates who come before Wilshere. Wilshere wasn't even the best Arsenal player, that was Almunia who performed 3 or 4 miracle saves...That he plays fantastic in a 3-1 defeat sums up his carreer unfortunately...

I read posts here from people who complain about Barcelona's style playing...people who call this boring... let's say i must live on another planet than those people. I watched the match with my 8 year old son and i really enjoyed it from start to finish. How many delicate passes did i see in that match and then the pressure that Barcelona managed to apply on Arsenal...Having a percentage of ball possession between 65 and 70% against Arsenal is really very impressive.

This Arsenal team misses a couple of key players: a good cynical DMF (a Van Bommel type, but Wenger will never buy such a player) and a good forward. Van Persie proved yesterday that he is not good enough in the really big matches (maybe i'm being harsh concerning this because he came back from injury). It will not make me very popular, but Arsenal miss Adebayor IMO...or a player like him (i understand that Adebayor was a nuisance in the dressing room, so it's good that he left, but on the pitch Arsenal never found a decent replacement for him...alongside a player like Adebayor, Van Persie would also be a better player).

Finally, Bobby: we've had our differences but you are a guy that i appreciate much...Most things you write make sense. But why in hell is one of your first thoughts about Spurs? We both know that Spurs will not win the CL...but if they would, wouldn't that be a good thing for English football and for football in general? You must admit that although Spurs still seem a frail and vulnerable team, this season they are playing very attractive football. Less refined than Arsenal, but very attractive nonetheless...I will never understand these rivalries...
 
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