Arsenal Thread

[jonneymendoza]

Barcelona still mouthing off;

http://msnsport.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12040_6281314,00.html

Even after they said this a couple of

I really think you shouldn't believe everything in the press. Those news you regularly post are based on news of the spanish journals. And spanish journals normally are full of lies and they play with the words to pretend someone says something when it's not the case. You must understand that journalists will ask 100 times EACH DAY about Cesc, no matter if the club wants or not to talk about it. At the end, after hundreds of questions, the club employee said "Arsenal didn't want to sell". Oh, yes, that's bloody classless and is a flagrant act of mouthing. Right.

I think you're getting too obsessed with things and too jumpy. Spanish press is shit but it is NOT representative of the club, nor of the supporters. You should see with your own eyes and hear with own ears before being annoyed. It's the fucking press that's making the noise, not the club.

You can hate SOME players for acting like spoilt kids (namely Valdes, Puyol, Xavi and Pique), I've been the first one to blame them. And you can hate journalists, of course, the main disgrace of Spain. But you really have lost reality from sight when you criticize the club all the time.

It makes me sad seeing the usual Beboq and others throwing shit and puking on my club day in day out. Beboq, you simply shoot everytime Barcelona it's in the way: you were even saying Xavi and Puyol where cunts simply for waving a catalan flag the other day... You only want to hate Barcelona and anything will work for you. You can even insult our club and talk about prostitutes and pickpockets, yes. That's very classy.

For the record, I've lived 35 years of my life here at Barcelona and I've been robbed once. With a knife. And it was at Elphinstone St., near my rented home, just in front of old Highbury, when I was 17 and went to London (as I regularly do). How funny is that.

The difference is I know it was just a coincidence and I won't blame the club or try to hurt the image of Arsenal because of that. I like Arsenal no matter what.

I come to read about Arsenal and try to have a good talk but I only find disrespect and sour people that will jump at barcelona's neck at any occasion, be it fair or not.

Can't blame arsenal fans for hating on your club. you have poached and bought Many if our stars and now your trying to bait fabregas to request for a transfer.

Many Chelsea and united fans also do not like Barcelona has a whole. Barcelona get too much praise from people as if your club is inocent and perfect.

Stop fucking about with cesc. Leave him the fuck alone and let us be

 

[gerd]

I think drekkard is right to be honest. I honestly don't see what Barcelona does wrong in wanting to buy a player from another club.
You guys are big fans of Arsenal and don't want to see your most iconic player leave the club. But football is a sport that operates within an economic logic. Within this economic logic neither Barcelona or Cesc have done nothing wrong.

It's a pity that this site isn't visited by Beveren fans. Beveren used to be some sort of unofficial satellite club of Arsenal. The club was run by Guillou who is a friend and close associate of Wenger. When Beveren were in dire straits Guillou took over and imported all these Ivorian players and Arsenal had the first pick. Do you think Beveren fans are happy with the role Arsene Wenger and Arsenal played versus their club?
You guys talk a lot about a lack of respect that Barcelona shows towards Arsenal. What would the average Beveren fan say about the lack of respect Arsenal, Guillou and Wenger have shown for his club? I think Barcelona shows Arsenal a lot more respect than Arsenal showed respect for litle club Beveren. Or is it not necessary to show respect towards litle clubs?

I love the football that Arsenal plays. But your indignation is very selective.

 

[drekkard]

Barcelona get too much praise from people as if your club is inocent and perfect.

Is there any source of someone saying "our club is inocent and perfect." or is more or less an image you've built yourself from different interpretations of news?

I stress again the fact that your speaking from prejudice, not from facts. All clubs are made of people and all people is the same around the world. I don't see why people from one club may be better than people from other clubs, and almost everyone I know would agree to that. I don't know which people is praising our club that much and saying we're "innocent and perfect", but it's quite evident you've got to blame whoever is saying that, not the club.

 

[jonneymendoza]

I think drekkard is right to be honest. I honestly don't see what Barcelona does wrong in wanting to buy a player from another club.
You guys are big fans of Arsenal and don't want to see your most iconic player leave the club. But football is a sport that operates within an economic logic. Within this economic logic neither Barcelona or Cesc have done nothing wrong.

It's a pity that this site isn't visited by Beveren fans. Beveren used to be some sort of unofficial satellite club of Arsenal. The club was run by Guillou who is a friend and close associate of Wenger. When Beveren were in dire straits Guillou took over and imported all these Ivorian players and Arsenal had the first pick. Do you think Beveren fans are happy with the role Arsene Wenger and Arsenal played versus their club?
You guys talk a lot about a lack of respect that Barcelona shows towards Arsenal. What would the average Beveren fan say about the lack of respect Arsenal, Guillou and Wenger have shown for his club? I think Barcelona shows Arsenal a lot more respect than Arsenal showed respect for litle club Beveren. Or is it not necessary to show respect towards litle clubs?

I love the football that Arsenal plays. But your indignation is very selective.

No one is saying arsenal are innocent either. And just because we may have done some wrong doings doesnt mean it fine for everyone else to do the same.

Im sure we diddnt put an arsenal shirt on a Beveren player like how some spanish players in particularly a barcelona player did on fabregas?

Is there any source of someone saying "our club is inocent and perfect." or is more or less an image you've built yourself from different interpretations of news?

I stress again the fact that your speaking from prejudice, not from facts. All clubs are made of people and all people is the same around the world. I don't see why people from one club may be better than people from other clubs, and almost everyone I know would agree to that. I don't know which people is praising our club that much and saying we're "innocent and perfect", but it's quite evident you've got to blame whoever is saying that, not the club.

Its an image thats been built by many neutrals. So why aint barcelona stopping the spanish press for putting a bad image on barcelona then?

So all this talk about barcelona unhappy with arsenal not discussing a deal with them, barcelona not being able to afford to pay their players salary without a loan, And more or less every player, staff, coach, fan, mascott from barcelona all saying fabregas should come is all complete bullshit from the spanish media?

The thing is drek, do you have any facts that state the media has been wrong?

 

[gerd]

No one is saying arsenal are innocent either. And just because we may have done some wrong doings doesnt mean it fine for everyone else to do the same.

Im sure we diddnt put an arsenal shirt on a Beveren player like how some spanish players in particularly a barcelona player did on fabregas?

You have a very flawed moral jonney...do you mind what Arsenal did with Beveren or don't you. If you don't, then don't complain about Barcelona. As a matter of facts what Barcelona did with Cesc and Arsenal is nothing compared to what happened with Beveren and the Ivorian players (who didn't succeed) and their Ivorian club.

The key to what you are saying is in the "we" in the sentence about the Barcelona shirt. That was an action (and IMO it was a juvenile joke nothing more) of a couple of individual Barcelona players...it wasn't showing a lack of respect from Barcelona towards Arsenal. I'm pretty sure those players meant no disrespect to Arsenal either (although one could argue that it surely was disrespectfull). One could also argue that Cesc showed no respect for Arsenal by wearing that shirt. If Cesc really was against wearing that shirt, you wouldn't have seen pictures with him wearing it...all this for a simple shirt...come on.

All what hapened besides "shirtgate" were purely economical negociations. I'm pretty sure Beveren fans also were not happy with the prize Arsenal payed for Eboué...that has nothing to do with a lack of respect. That is all about the power balance between the clubs. Arsenal had more power (i.e. financial clout) than Beveren, now Barcelona has more power than Arsenal...

And about the image of the neutrals about a certain club: that is something you can influence and so something that you deserve.

 

[jonneymendoza]

can you enlighten me more about this Beveren your on about. what happened? we bought some players for cheap or for free from this club?

 

[IceMan_Bergkamp]

can you enlighten me more about this Beveren your on about. what happened? we bought some players for cheap or for free from this club?

Gerd is talking about KSK Beveren who play(ed) in the Belgian Jupiler Pro League, but are now in the Belgian EXQI League (2nd divsion?).

Around 01-02, there was an influx of players from the Ivory Coast, and most importantly, from one of the top acadamy/club - ASEC Abidjan (funnily enough, more recently, Academie Jean-Marc Guillou).

Household players such as Yaya Toure, Gilles Yapi Yapo, Emmanuel Eboue, Arthur Boka, Romaric N'Dri. We got access to some of these players earlier than other teams could due to the relationship between Wenger and Guillou. Funnily enough, Yaya Toure was not good enough, hence went the Shakhtar, Monaco, Barcelona and now Manchester City.

 

[Milanista]

Can't blame arsenal fans for hating on your club. you have poached and bought Many if our stars and now your trying to bait fabregas to request for a transfer.

Many Chelsea and united fans also do not like Barcelona has a whole. Barcelona get too much praise from people as if your club is inocent and perfect.

Stop fucking about with cesc. Leave him the fuck alone and let us be

You could say the same about poaching Flamini in the past and more recently Arshavin. Zenit did their best to hold on to their star but Arsenal got to him. It's quite normal these days amongst big clubs.

 

[gerd]

Gerd is talking about KSK Beveren who play(ed) in the Belgian Jupiler Pro League, but are now in the Belgian EXQI League (2nd divsion?).

Around 01-02, there was an influx of players from the Ivory Coast, and most importantly, from one of the top acadamy/club - ASEC Abidjan (funnily enough, more recently, Academie Jean-Marc Guillou).

Household players such as Yaya Toure, Gilles Yapi Yapo, Emmanuel Eboue, Arthur Boka, Romaric N'Dri. We got access to some of these players earlier than other teams could due to the relationship between Wenger and Guillou. Funnily enough, Yaya Toure was not good enough, hence went the Shakhtar, Monaco, Barcelona and now Manchester City.

The fact is that when Guillou left (because the Beveren board and fans were fed being a satellite club for Arsenal or some sort of academy) Beveren totally collapsed financially.
The club is now in 3d division (they were relegated last season) and that is a shame for a club who played semi-finals of the ECII and were champions in the '80's.


If Guillou ever comes to Belgium he goes to jail. He was convicted for the way the Ivorian players were treated. The names Ice Man mentions are the success stories, but there are loads of other player who didn't make and were housed, fed and (scarcely) payed in an inhuman way.

There has always been a very close connection between Guillou and Wenger. I don't blame Arsenal or Wenger for what happened. I just wanted to put in perspective all the crocodile tears and the moaning about Barcelona and "shirtgate".

 

[Zeem]

You cannot compare Flamini to Cesc. Flamini's contract ran out and was free to join anyone while Cesc still has 4 years left in his.

 

[Milanista]

You're completely right about that, but from what I remember, Arsenal were very sneaky and didn't inform Marseille at all, so they had no chance to negotiate with their own player. Legally, they were completely fine, but it seems like a lack of class.

 

[Zeem]

Flamini himself lacks class. I think Marseille actually offered him a deal back then but he refused.

 

[Aboutreika18]

C'mon guys they have don't have a shirt sponsor, they give the money to charity instead. They play perfect football. They are angels sent from above to teach everyone else the perfect way. They are more than a club, how can you hate them.

 

[Jumbo_]

Can't blame arsenal fans for hating on your club. you have poached and bought Many if our stars and now your trying to bait fabregas to request for a transfer.

The irony is Arsenal 'poached' Fabregas from Barca in the first place.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Diddnt Chelsea got done for a similar thing ie using a small club to house young talent?

They got done and suspended for doing any transfers for a while? Also United do the same i heard with a smaller club too.

Ok so we go access to Toure eboue etc, may i ask what is wrong with that? did we fail to pay this club the appropriate fee or something? did we approach these players illegaly?

i think this needs a bit more explaining as i cant quit get my finger on what exactly arsenal/wenger did wrong?

 

[jonneymendoza]

The irony is Arsenal 'poached' Fabregas from Barca in the first place.

And united poached c ronaldo? What about pique? did u poach himf rom barcelona?

In your footballing terms, define the word "poach". The thing with barcelona is that if they want fab, they should cough up 50m. it really is that simple.

No arsenal fan are complaining that he wants to go. We just want 50m. is that hard for barcelona to understand?

Barcelona act like a woman, They want something, cant afford it so they go and fantasies about having it.

 

[Jumbo_]

Chelsea got suspended for doing exactly what you did with Fabregas to Barca, they took a young player, Gael Kakuta from Lens before he could sign professional terms with them and didn't pay any compensation or fee to Lens. In the end they were found not guilty and the transfer ban was lifted before it had even taken effect.

United were accused of similar by another french club and also an Italian team but it didn't even get to the stage the Chelsea one did.

All of these transfers are immoral and smack of the big guys taking advantage of the little guys and stealing their young talent. That is why FIFA need to work more to stamp it out.

Maybe you shouldn't run your mouth off so much about things when you've clearly got no idea about what goes on.


Also Arsenal (the club) are saying Cesc is not for sale at all, not that he can go for £50m. That's where the problem is.

 

[bebo]

Flamini himself lacks class. I think Marseille actually offered him a deal back then but he refused.

Flamini played a perfect season then refuse to sign for us.

It makes me sad seeing the usual Beboq and others throwing shit and puking on my club day in day out. Beboq, you simply shoot everytime Barcelona it's in the way: you were even saying Xavi and Puyol where cunts simply for waving a catalan flag the other day... You only want to hate Barcelona and anything will work for you. You can even insult our club and talk about prostitutes and pickpockets, yes. That's very classy.

Alright you seem to know me pretty well, trying to hate barca is a correct statement : it`s hard trying to build a case against them. I need to dislike them it`s in my DNA too. My familia politica supports barca so naturally I try to like Madrid out of spite. My sons support Liverpool/Barca ,My lovely daughter loves the Arsenal in which I`m delighted. As dysfunctional family as we may seem football doesn`t bring us together only our devoted love.

So drekkard I posted earlier an opinion about the new vs old administration you didn`t seem to answer that just the dig about prostitutes and pickpockets lol anyhow ask ben the US are filled with them I`ve been rob lots and I`m a mean looking cunt and loveable too point is I was trying to calm a fellow gooner and my point was harsh ,but I wanted a fellow gooner happy {I`m guilty of that } so next time you see me aving a go just ...say keeping trying son! So don`t say it sadden you for my remarks I support Arsenal and you have Barca enjoy your success

 

[gerd]

The fact is jonney that Guillou (and Wenger) set up acircuit which was considered by the Belgian justic as trade in human beings, that is a crime.
The fact is that the club Beveren was totally dependent from Guillou's (and Wenger's) goodwill and money. That is not a crime, but replace "Beveren" with "Arsenal" and "Arsenal" with "Barcelona", i.e Barcelona having first access to all Arsenal players.
Eboué, Touré and others were as important to Beveren as Cesc and Henry to Arsenal.

You just refuse to see that you are using double standards: once again what Guillou and Wenger did to Beveren is far worse that what Barcelona does with Fabregas (a simple bid, while Guillou virutally destroyed a good club with tradition).

You are a nice guy, but you have a blind spot regarding your favourite team.

 

[Rantboy]

How the fuck did bloody Beveren pop into this discussion? We're talking Arsenal and Barcelona here FFS. Both are always playing Champions League football. Arsenal isn't a satellite club or feeder club, whatever they call it.

Whatever happened to Beveren from the Belgian 2nd division, we can hardly draw a parallel here.

You must bee too naive not to see what Barcelona and the Catalan press are really trying to do. There's nothing new on it, yet they're repeating the same stories over and over again. They clearly want Cesc to be unstable at Arsenal, pitting him against his employers and get him on the cheap.

Tough luck for Barcelona if Arsenal found a breach in the difference between Spain's and UK's rules. Cesc and his family accepted to move, he developed his game from his teenage years playing with legends and extended his contract till 2014. That's all there is to it.

If they want their former player now they have to pay up big money. And if they get too much to AW's nerves, he might never sell or maybe offer Cesc to another club in the future. That's how football business is.

 

[sauce]

Most clubs are dirty when it comes to entice (got this word from google) young players, and Arsenal are the masters of this, but once you start to get all these dirty stuff football have you lose some of your passion.
But nothing that 90mins of the actual game doesn't bring that passion back.
In the end no one cares where the money come from, if the club is a new rich, if your beloved player left, people tend to forget these thing very fast, just look at Chelsea.
I'm sure if Fabregas leaves, Arsenal will stay just as good, didn't they got over Henry?
All I'm saying is that you shouldn't be that mad at these dirty things, of course be aware where they are but we don't live in the ideal world.

Edit: Oh and I 100% with Arsenal on this, if they want him, pay period.

 

[AK.Rabona]

OK forget about Cesc, Barcelona, or whatever. Are we even interested in any more players? Are we going to get anyone else? A goalie, any additions to defense or midfield?

 

[gerd]

How the fuck did bloody Beveren pop into this discussion? We're talking Arsenal and Barcelona here FFS. Both are always playing Champions League football. Arsenal isn't a satellite club or feeder club, whatever they call it.

So it's good that a big club like Arsenal can exploit litle clubs? Well then don't complain about what is happening about a possible Cesc transfer.

If you say that what happened in Beveren is not important, then you are saying that football is about the survival of the fittest. One could argue that this is true, sports is about survival of the fittest. But what happens between Barcelona and Arsenal is also survival of the fittest.

Like i said, you guys have flawed ethics. What Arsenal does to another club is not important, it is only "bloody Beveren", so ethics are not important. But if you perceive something unfair between Barcelona and Arsenal (and frankly i don't see what Barcelona did wrong) suddenly ethics are very important. Well maybe Barcelona is just thinking: "it's only bloody Arsenal". Just face it Barcelona is the biggest club and in the end Arsenal will loose that battle just like Beveren lost the battle against Guillou and Wenger.

And if you really don't understand: this is not about Beveren this about double moral standards. Beveren is just a way to illustrate that. That's why bloody Beveren popped into this discussion FFS.

 

[bebo]

Well both rosicky and djourou had knocks so we are short in backs as it is. So much for Wenger`s promise having a team ready by preseason I know we're in the market for players ,but it`s so depressing seeing us wait for the last day to save a few $$$$ .I don`t believe Wenger anymore on transfers I look for players quotes to know anything tbh.

 

[BobbyBox]

Why can't I complain about Barcelona?

Beveren supporters can do all the complaining they want about Arsenal (if all that is said is true, I also need to read up on it to get the gist).

Just because Arsenal have done things in the past, doesn't mean that what Barcelona are doing now is right.

Britain raped and murdered their way around the world making us a very rich country. Yet we seem to think we can tell other countries what to do and to take the moral high ground. Now we have our wealth etc when other poorer or less established countries do it for their gain, we are full of condemnation. It happens all of the time, people do wrong/bad things but it doesn't mean they can't comment on things that are happening at the moment? or can say other people are doing bad things?

Just because Arsenal did something wrong in the past, doesn't mean I can't complain and say that Barcelona are acting like dicks.

Unfortunately I only have the British press and Spanish press to go on when dealing with quotes etc and all that I have heard is presidents here and players there, doing all they can to unsettle Fabregas.

I am 100% sure if Barcelona were respectful and did everything the right way and offered a proper amount of money, Fab would now be at Barcelona.

But they were not respectful, they made everything public to try and unsettle Fab and to tarnish Arsenals relationship with Fab, so they could get him on the cheap. The cherry on top of the cake now is that they are now making out that it is wholey Arsenals fault that Fab isn't going?! saying Arsenal are refusing to talk etc. This is another statement to cast doubt into peoples minds and also effect the relationaship with Fab.

Drek unless you offer me any proof that what has been quoted was not said (or was misqouted), I am sorry I can't just take your word that all the quotes and what is happening and how Barcelona are acting, isn't really happening and is what the press are making up?

Also I think people are very naive if they think the captain of Barcelona (ambassador for the club) forces a player of another team into their kit (a situation that is soooo high profile) is just a 'joke'? It was rude, disrespectful to Arsenal and shows an arrogance that I don't think I have seen at any club.

You also add to the fact that other high profile players saying things that Fabregas is just on loan etc for a year? and other stupid, arrogant disrispectful things for the last few months. It is just classless and very very disrespectful. If you don't see that then you are also very biased.

What ever happened before and after, Arsenal have every right to moan and bitch about Barcelona, because they have acted like dicks, no matter what way you look at it and they have not got their man (so far) because of the way they have acted and no other reason.

So I will continue to moan about Barcelona

 

[Rantboy]

So it's good that a big club like Arsenal can exploit litle clubs? Well then don't complain about what is happening about a possible Cesc transfer.

If you say that what happened in Beveren is not important, then you are saying that football is about the survival of the fittest. One could argue that this is true, sports is about survival of the fittest. But what happens between Barcelona and Arsenal is also survival of the fittest.

Like i said, you guys have flawed ethics. What Arsenal does to another club is not important, it is only "bloody Beveren", so ethics are not important. But if you perceive something unfair between Barcelona and Arsenal (and frankly i don't see what Barcelona did wrong) suddenly ethics are very important. Well maybe Barcelona is just thinking: "it's only bloody Arsenal". Just face it Barcelona is the biggest club and in the end Arsenal will loose that battle just like Beveren lost the battle against Guillou and Wenger.

And if you really don't understand: this is not about Beveren this about double moral standards. Beveren is just a way to illustrate that. That's why bloody Beveren popped into this discussion FFS.

Just make sure to double check your logics mate... The situations simply cannot be compared. Arsenal is not a feeder club to Barcelona, like Beveren was to Arsenal. That's the point where no parallel can be drawn.

Nobody said that the football business is a fair and happy place. Survival of the fittest, as you put it, perfectly describes it. The raw truth is that small clubs like Beveren will always get the short end of the stick when dealing with the bigger ones. Mind you, especially Beveren which was severely troubled financially. Small club + financial difficulties = will be exploited, if not by Arsenal, another club. That's the rough reality and we all know it. But "moral vigilantes" like yourself will always be on the lookout for these though.

Arsenal is in a quite comfortable financial situation, hence they don't need to sell players. Barcelona is a bigger club, but no club can coerce Arsenal in the position they are right now. Therefore, Barcelona punches below the belt (i.e. stirring up this story through press releases and the Catalan media in general).

 

[BobbyBox]

Just had a little read about the Arsenal/Beveren thing.

Still can't make head nor tale of it properly. But the things I have read say that Arsenal gave them a loan, as they were having financial trouble at the time? so sounds like they were in plenty of shit before Arsenal came along?

The only player we got off of them was Eboue and they got Stepanovs in return?

No wrong doing was found in the end (no one was punished?)?

obviously i have just read official news on it. Are there any articles that actual explain what did really happen? (obviously it seemed a bit dodgy).

just can't get a proper report of what actually happened?

 

[jonneymendoza]

nore can i bob. well said. I still cant find any clues and shit on what arsenal did so wrong?

 

[IceMan_Bergkamp]

Well both rosicky and djourou had knocks so we are short in backs as it is. So much for Wenger`s promise having a team ready by preseason I know we're in the market for players ,but it`s so depressing seeing us wait for the last day to save a few $$$$ .I don`t believe Wenger anymore on transfers I look for players quotes to know anything tbh.

I can't believe i'm going to see Fabianski in goal at the Emirates. FFS.

 

[bebo]

I remember read some stuff on the old Arsenal thread think they were some prices that was promise but wasnt given .