Arsenal Thread

i know, i´m talking about the Barcelona way to get to where they are now.

every team would spend if they have the money to do so...except maybe teams with gready owners...

Barcelona deserves the success, they are n. 1 team in world for a reason. Yes they have Messi, but the way they went in 2003 as i mentioned is the real change in philosophy and now they only taking the fruit of their work... they have massive revenue, because they build it for years. It seems the team is in peak now.. and could be for next 3-4 years untill Messi playes like he playes.

also there is no place for fairness in a world of football as we know it.. maybe there is fairness in MLS football, where nobody gets relegated, but not in Europe, best teams spend most and it is a hunt for success. Nothing is fair in a league where some teams can spend milions on one player and other have the same amount for the whole squad.

another thing is the myth of a club having to play local talents...realy? how many current CL clubs have more than 3-4 own players coming from academy? Does Arsenal play at least a single one? For comparsion... It isn´t about nationality anymore in today´s football, it is about quality...and Barcelona seem to go for a certain type of player to fit their system...in contrary to other big spending clubs who buy just to sell shirts or buy without thinking about the system...

what was wrong with Di María at Real? why Real needed to buy James? the answer is NOTHING and FOR NO REASON other than he was the new shining boy of world football after World Cup...
 
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From a neutral perspective a Bayern-Barca final would be mouthwatering. Bayern, who were brilliant last night, really need their CB fitness issues sorted tho.
 
Arsenal do play some few homegrown players, such as Gibbsy and Wilshere - the few occasions when he's not injured :( plus the likes of Gnabry, Iwobi, Jenkinson... not to mention the players who come at age 16 like Ramsey, Ox, Theo...

But that's beside the point. All I'm saying is that all of the bigger teams who play the CL have huge amounts invested in their squads, no exception, and Barcelona aren't a case of holier-than-thou club who do everything right. As a matter of fact, they suffered sanctions because of the way they handled transfers of youngsters.

There is no "fair" in football at this level, that's true, but the same way Barcelona are pissed at Arsenal for taking the likes of Cesc, Bellerin, Merida and Toral from their youth ranks, other clubs are pissed at Barcelona for the way they approached their youngsters.

Now, if you talk solely about how Barcelona revolutionised the way they think their football, training style, etc. then you're spot on. They are reaping the rewards for solid ground work done over 10 years ago (the Germans did an overhaul too, and they reap the rewards now - I recommend you watch Rummenige and others talking about it).
Back to Barça: if you think about it, they had Louis bloody Van Gaal as manager in 99-2002 and their squad was teeming with ex-Ajax players, amongst which were the likes of Zenden, who was a total misfit in terms of quality there - all because of one man's limited vision. It was a case of a club adjusting to one man, and not the other way around.
Now it is a totally different situation - Barcelona has a well thought out system deeply ingrained and the same training methods are applied in all categories of players, and that makes the club much bigger, and institution with vision, beliefs and values that can be carried on from generation to generation (ok, Tata Martino was a bad appointment). But at least, the way I see it, they would never have to resort to a madman like old LVG - a name doesn't mean much when you can have a much more modest coach who knows the club inside out and can do a pretty good job.
 
with all due respect mate, these players i was more talking about players who Barcelona played and who are first team players now and also international players...

There was an article back in the day that explained why Barcelona is more succesfull on taking talents from their wide area, because simply there is no big club around in that area bigger than Barcelona...while in comparsion in England there are many clubs even in the same town...for many clubs...so it is more difficult to cover that area taking the best of the best for your academy...

but yeah, my point was mainly about how Barcelona is developing young players in their academy, no matter where these players came from...

every young player is going where his parents want him mainly..im talking about kids.
 
It's always a disaster for football if one club has a long supremacy, this is not about Barcelona. I would write exactly the same if it was any other club, even Spurs.

My post wasn't about Barcelona but about a likely supremacy.
 
This is how football is in Europe.. the richest getting richer with success... The winner takes it all, the richest clubs take it all..

Sometimes a "Leicester" happens, the more i like them to win something, but that is just a miracle in today´s money driven game.
 
yeah i know, even if Wilshere is more injured than healthy unfortunatelly.

but that is still very little for a London club and top 4 club in England..
 
I read an opinion piece on Facebook earlier that said Arsenal should play a weakened side at the Nou Camp and concentrate 100% on winning the Premier League.

Thoughts? (I really can't decide if that would be sensible, disrespectful, or disappointing.)
 
I agree with that opinion. Although as a Spurs fan, i shouldn't.

I've watched two (half) CL matches this week and i was extremly disappointed by them (Arsenal-Barca and PSV-Atletico, both were the "wrong" matches because both other matches seemed better).

There is something wrong with the format of the CL.

A (wild) proposition to change the format.

Start the new CL with 128 teams. 32 groups of 4.
The first 2 of each group go to the knck-out stage and the 32 third teams start the Euro League (and they would be the only teams in the Euro League).

Now you have a CL with 64 teams in the knck-out stage and a Euro League with 32.

In the knck-out stage of both cups you will have only one leg. The lowest ranked team plays at home. The winner progresses to the next round. If a match ends in a draw, the team with most shots on target wins (no extra-time or penalties).

The final is played at a neutral stadium and if there is no winner, there is a replay. If there is no winner in the replay, there is extra-time (prolongations i mean) and even a penalty shoot-out.

Same for the Euro League.

This format advantages offensive play and is some sort of redivision of the money (oh, only the home team gets television money, wich is allocated individually for every match).

This is utopic, of course...

The same should be done (minus the group stages) for the Fa Cup. The league Cup should be "abolished" (don't know the correct word).

There would also be less matches.


The winner of the FA Cup should play a match against the fourth (or third, or second) in the EPL to decide who gets the last CL place. If Arsenal win the FA Cup, then the other cup finalist plays agianst the 4th placed team (Arsenal, silly joke, i know, this will jinx Spurs title run...it's all my fault...sorry).

I wonder how many of you will remotely agree with this, my guess is nobody...
 
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Chris Davies said:
I read an opinion piece on Facebook earlier that said Arsenal should play a weakened side at the Nou Camp and concentrate 100% on winning the Premier League.

Thoughts? (I really can't decide if that would be sensible, disrespectful, or disappointing.)
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they should do whatever possible to play like in first half of their home match..
 
There's not even a remote possibility of progressing in the Champions League now, as we've blown all our chances in the home match.

However, I think they have to think about the fans who will travel to the Camp Nou. Fielding second string players there would be a massive let down. Plus, if Wenger uses unexperienced players there, he would get lots of stick for leaving lambs to the slaughter and what not.

The best scenario is to put out a strong first 11 there and play a defensive, counter-attack based gameplan to keep it respectable.

The only real fear is losing someone important to injury, similarly to what happened to Ox in that clash with Masch.
 
Godotelli said:
'the team with most shots on target wins'

Would probably end up with teams essentially just booting it to each other's GK
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That is the weak link in my "new format".
But isn't that a litle bit too cynical.
Surely there will be teams who want to win in the 90 minutes?
 
gerd said:
That is the weak link in my "new format".
But isn't that a litle bit too cynical.
Surely there will be teams who want to win in the 90 minutes?
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Players go down like they've been executed with a bullet to the head at the slightest brush of a finger to the upper body
Managers tell players to get bookings
It's a cynical game :(

You'd undoubtedly see the teams parking the bus and just trying to rack up shots on target with silly efforts.

You could even see controversy over whether a cross or a pass was a shot. People would be arguing over who has won the match long after the match is over. Pens aren't always great but atleast you know for certain who has won.


I think the CL took a step in the right direction with the seeding change for pot 1. As a next step I'd like to see that expanded further so that, in the PL for example, 2nd = Pot 2, 3rd = Pot 3, Arsenal = Pot 4 ;)

I don't see why what you did 5 years ago, probably with a different manager, should have any bearing on how you should be treated right now. If Leicester finish 2nd they should be in pot 2, they will have proven over the course of an entire campaign to be our 2nd best team.

Seeding gets criticised for favouring the big teams but I think seeding is essential for rewarding domestic performance. It's the added coefficiant stuff which takes it too far imo. There's no need for it either. If the big teams aren't run absolutely disastrously they will over a 5+ year period generally finish higher in their domestic leagues than your 'aberrational' Leicesters of this world
 
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Rentboy said:
There's not even a remote possibility of progressing in the Champions League now, as we've blown all our chances in the home match.

However, I think they have to think about the fans who will travel to the Camp Nou. Fielding second string players there would be a massive let down. Plus, if Wenger uses unexperienced players there, he would get lots of stick for leaving lambs to the slaughter and what not.

The best scenario is to put out a strong first 11 there and play a defensive, counter-attack based gameplan to keep it respectable.

The only real fear is losing someone important to injury, similarly to what happened to Ox in that clash with Masch.
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seriously this is a loser mentality mate... why Arsenal even bother then to get to CL every season....? i take one win of Cl over 10 years of going out in last 16.... seriously, if i was a supporter of Arsenal i would be pissed off if my team went to nou camp with this mindset...

what would you do if Arsenal manages to score somehow in first 10 minutes...?

im not saying league is not important, but seems like some teams only want CL money rather than fight for winning it.

Arsenal should take this match as a cup final and give everything to win it.
 
So my friends, y'all remember that time you suffered a big injury crisis and had to play some youth guys you'd never heard of against us? And we totally took it easy on you, and gave those kids a gentle introduction to the premier league?

If you could just recall it like that on Sunday, it'd be awesome. Thanks!
 
The only memory I have is the 8-2 lol It was the Coq's debut , Djourou , Trarore and Jenkins were being violated on national television . I was like Mickey throwing the towel screaming (Rocky movie)stop the fight, you're killing 'em'. I'd take 3pts /clean sheet!
 
PIPA23 said:
seriously this is a loser mentality mate... why Arsenal even bother then to get to CL every season....? i take one win of Cl over 10 years of going out in last 16.... seriously, if i was a supporter of Arsenal i would be pissed off if my team went to nou camp with this mindset...

what would you do if Arsenal manages to score somehow in first 10 minutes...?

im not saying league is not important, but seems like some teams only want CL money rather than fight for winning it.

Arsenal should take this match as a cup final and give everything to win it.
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Not a loser mentality, I'm just not setting myself up for disappointment. They scored 2 past us and kept a clean sheet. We should have scored at the Emirates and but blew some of the best chances in that match.

Seriously, think of one team who can keep a clean sheet at the Camp Nou and get back to me.

Facing Barcelona is difficult as it is over 2 legs. With this deficit, we would be fooling ourselves to think otherwise. Fairy tales like that Liverpool comeback vs Milan are pretty hard to come by... plus it would take some serious Gerrard diving ;)

I'd only be optimistic if we'd won the home match or at had at least kept a 0-0 draw.



bebo said:
The only memory I have is the 8-2 lol It was the Coq's debut , Djourou , Trarore and Jenkins were being violated on national television . I was like Mickey throwing the towel screaming (Rocky movie)stop the fight, you're killing 'em'. I'd take 3pts /clean sheet!
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Violated live on daytime TV :LOL:
That's beautifuly illustrated dude!

That match prompted Wenger to sign: Mertesacker, Arteta, André Santos, Benayoun on loan... and I must be forgetting someone.

Some other things to be remembered: Ashley Young chose that specific day to hit some curlers he was never able to repeat and never will. A good right foot he has, but that was freakish, aberrational... he scored some 2 or 3 from long range?

Rosicky was totally pissed and going through the motions (I remember him sulking on the wall after a free kick and not even turning to see they scored with that free kick).

And finally, it was Coquelin's first big match (don't know if it was his debut). That was outright baptism by fire. He will be looking for revenge :D

But we're in no place to discuss a hammering at Old Trafford. Especially given our goal drought. A 1-0 there would do us a world of good.

Plus, Wenger isn't one for demoralizing opponents. He could have done that to Van Gaal at the Emirates match but stopped at 3-0. Nowhere near like Ferguson and his psycho killer instict - the more he smelled blood, the more he went for it and that rubbed off on his players. The most classic example was that 8-2. Take an Arsenal side that was defending like a pub team and teach them a lesson they wouldn't forget.
 
That was a gentleman by the name of Ardavan Farhad Moshiri, who sold out looking to purchase Everton. He sold his share to Alisher Usmanov.

Usmanov owned around 28% and now his shares amount to 30%.

Usmanov wants Arsenal to spend loads of money and works with former chairman David Dean (the one who made great signings such as Bergkamp prior to Wenger's arrival, but also wanted Arsenal to move to Wembley instead of building the Emirates, so the club could keep on spending).

So Usmanov and Dein are advocates for spending more money - who knows how much. They are like pariahs to the rest of the Arsenal board. So much so that they didn't have a seat at the Arsenal board meetings. It's bizarre, given how Usmanov owned 28% but somehow majority owner Stan Kroenke and his crew, along with the older remaining board members, managed to shut them out.

Now that Usmanov has over 30% of shares, it will be insteresting to see what changes. Because so far, he didn't have a say on the running of the club.
 
I don't meant to gloat I am doing so anyway: that Arsenal team should not have lost to a United makeshift team full of young ones put together because of 14 (!) injuries. Granted our actual "full strength" team probably would've rolled over.
 
And there's Swansea on Wednesday. A must win. And then versus Tottenham we need at least a draw not to lose touch.

Today Wenger had an off day. He made the wrong decisions on everything, from team selection to substitutions.

Walcott as CF is an Experiment that doesn't work 9 out of 10 times. Should have played Giroud from the start.
Starting with Gabriel instead of Mertesacker was another mistake IMO.

And when the time came for substitutions, Iwobi was a shocker. Joel Campbell must feel gutted after the good run he's had and all...

It looks bad, we let an 18 year old score a brace and give an assist. Not to mention our attack lacked once again bite and objectivity. It's hard to envisage a league title when we're playing like that.

Our mistake quota is over now. We have to get on a winning streak and hope Leicester stops winning them all. Very tough...
 
its all fking deja vu at this stage. for the last 9-10 years
Wengers always been 1 or 2 players away from a side that coudl win PL and CL. Wengers always been 1 or 2 seasons too slow to react to the GLARING holes in the team .
Wengers has bet the farm gone out and bought donkeys on the cheap and hoping them to be the next Henry.

The problem each years is one of more of lacking in quality a GK, centre half, midfield, or forward . eVeryone can identify it, but Wengers too slow, cheap or dumb to react.

Lets look at the last few seasons, remember some of these who were part of the spine of the team he expected us to compete at the top but just werent up to it (big list I might have one or two out, but you get my gist)

Arsenal – 2015/16 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014–15_Arsenal_F.C._season
Finally addresses the GK situation
Per on his way out. Paulista not up to it
Ox,Walcott, not producing after years of given a chance
one man Giroud going to get all the goals , no backup
Sanogo still in squad
No transfer action, gets a Midfielder and doesnt play him


Arsenal – 2014/15 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014–15_Arsenal_F.C._season
Chez in goal a liability
Midfield was ageing or injured
Yaya Sanogo was going to be the man to get us goals

Arsenal – 2013/14 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013–14_Arsenal_F.C._season
Chez in goal a liability
Vermalen injured
Relying on Arteta
Wilshere injured
Yaya Sanogo was going to be the man to get us goals
Bendtner still in squad

Arsenal – 2012/13 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012–13_Arsenal_F.C._season
Almunia in goal a liability
Djourou part of defense
Relying on Arteta
Wilshere injured
Chamak, Gervinho, Benayoun going to be the man to get us goals
Bendtner still in squad

Arsenal – 2011/12 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011–12_Arsenal_F.C._season
Almunia in goal a liability
Djourou part of defense
Wilshere injured
Chamak, Gervinho, Benayoun going to be the man to get us goals
Bendtner still in squad

Arsenal – 2010/11 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010–11_Arsenal_F.C._season
Chez,Almunia,Fabianksi
Djourou
Chamak
Young players coming thru, Ramsey, Wilshere,gibbs
Bentdner part of the team

Arsenal – 2009/10 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009–10_Arsenal_F.C._season
Chez,Almunia,Fabianksi
Gallas
Van Piersie – injured
Young players coming thru, Ramsey, Wilshere,gibbs
Bentdner part of the team, relying on him for goals

Arsenal – 2008/09 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008–09_Arsenal_F.C._season
Almunia,Fabianksi
Gallas
Djourou
Silvestre
Vela
Young players coming thru
Bentdner part of the team, relying on him for goals

Arsenal – 2007/08 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007–08_Arsenal_F.C._season
Almunia,Fabianksi goalies
Hleb, Flamini, Song, Denilson, Eboue. Rosicky in their prime
Probably a good enough squad that Wenger left break up because he was betting the farm on the players above and betting the farm that he could replace them with the crap he went out and found.
Oh yeah Bentdner part of the team, relying on him for goals
 
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