Arsenal Thread

[Rantboy]

If i'm not mistaken there is a rule that any foreigner coming to the EPL must have played a minimum amount of matches for his national team. It is impossible to transfer nobodies to the EPL.

No actually this applies only for players outside Europe. That's why some young players signed by Arsenal (such as Joel Campbell for example) have to be loaned out to other leagues, before they get a work permit.

That's a shame, as some players actually never really get to play for Arsenal, like Pedro Botelho.

 

[cfdh_edmundo]

If i'm not mistaken there is a rule that any foreigner coming to the EPL must have played a minimum amount of matches for his national team. It is impossible to transfer nobodies to the EPL.

That’s sort of true, but it’s in the context of a wider rule about work permits. Work permits are needed for some foreigners to legally work in the UK. The first thing to say is that only non-EU* citizens need to have a work permit, so any player from inside the EU can play for a UK club, and also say a Brazilian player who has an Italian passport could also play without needing a permit since he has Italian parentage he’s eligable for EU citizenship and so doesn’t need a work permit.

However any other nationality (Russian, Ukraine, Croatia [until it joins EU], Egypt, Argentina, USA, Australia etc) will need a work permit to play at a club in the UK. The criteria is based on many factors, such as age, perceived talent and number of games played for a national team does count. There isn’t a set ratio, but if a player has played over 2/3rd of matches for his country in the last year (or two years) then the buying club will use this as a claim that the player is a special talent and should be granted a permit, and usually they’ll get the permit – as happened with this week’s transfer of Pogrebnyak to Reading. If the player hasn’t played that many matches, then special circumstances e.g. player being young (and playing in u21s instead), player being out of contention due to injury, etc then he may still be granted a permit – however in some big cases players haven’t got the permits (e.g. last summer QPR tried to sign Henrique of Sao Paolo but he didn’t get the permit). There is a lot of ambiguity as to if a player will or won’t get a permit and some questionable ones have in the past had to be loaned out to other EU clubs (e.g. Manucho getting loaned to Panathinikos, Vela getting to loaned to a few Spanish clubs).


*as well as being EU, it’s also EEA (Norway, Iceland) and Switzerland who don’t need work permits.

 

[beachryan]

Love the tapping up from Toure: "Robin is a top player. I've played with him, I know him and he's a great man,"

And then the truly lovely: "At City we have great players and the club does what it wants in transfers."

Yes Kolo, City do what they want with transfers. Stay classy fella.

 

[bebo]

Love the tapping up from Toure: "Robin is a top player. I've played with him, I know him and he's a great man,"

And then the truly lovely: "At City we have great players and the club does what it wants in transfers."

Yes Kolo, City do what they want with transfers. Stay classy fella.

what a slogan ! All Mercs plz stand up!

 

[Rantboy]

Love the tapping up from Toure: "Robin is a top player. I've played with him, I know him and he's a great man,"

And then the truly lovely: "At City we have great players and the club does what it wants in transfers."

Yes Kolo, City do what they want with transfers. Stay classy fella.

Ah, did he say that, Kolo? He's clueless at times but who's to say he's wrong?
City do what they want with transfers indeed. Nasri was undoubtedly tapped up last summer, but City "bought" Arsenal's silence with a £25m fee.

I wonder what will happen now, and if Arsenal can report Man City?

Juventus and even Man United(!) apparently are also interested, but I'm pretty sure it's Man City that RvP wants to go to, where he will have swimming pools of gold coins.
Some people doubt he would ever go to another Prem club out of respect for Arsenal, but after such a statement, what respect?? I have no doubt in my mind he's desperate to go to City. They've been trying to engineer this move for months now, and perhaps RvP's statement was requested by his future employers to speed up the process.

But I repeat, Arsenal has to sell him abroad. Enough of making City stronger than they already are! They have this strategy of reinforcing themselves whilst weakening other EPL clubs at the same time, but Arsenal has to put an end to this and send him overseas - even if for less money.
And if he refuses to go to Juve to try and force his move to City, I wish Arsenal holds him to the end of his contract and leave him 1 year out without club football. A waste of money for his wages?? Not much so. How many years did he spend injured and receiving his salary?

 

[beachryan]

As to the United link - no way will United pay him more in wages than Arsenal would have offered. Neither of those clubs are able to operate outside of reality.

 

[bebo]

Well, Alumina was on the wage bill for 2 long years w/o playing . Sometimes , its hard to release a contracted player. City will have the same problem. We suffered w/ Bendtner every was shocked, how much he was earning £55k is too much . Adebayor is on 170k how will anyone afford that wages.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Henry was fantastic with Monaco.
Overmars won a CL with Ajax and played a final with the same team (in fact if you look at the silverware he made a step back compared to Ajax).
All the players you mentioned were far much more accomplished than for example Dedrick Boyata (Man City), Lukaku (Chelsea), Oriol Romeu (Chelsea), and the Montenegro CB who plays for Man City. In fact do you know Man City's second GK? I don't...I know Arsenal's 3 GK's...


Fact is Jonney that the average English fan is hardly aware of the football outside England. All those players you named were far from nobodies.

If i'm not mistaken there is a rule that any foreigner coming to the EPL must have played a minimum amount of matches for his national team. It is impossible to transfer nobodies to the EPL.

What about petit? anelka? pires,fabregas? hleb? gilberto? Toure? Ashely cole? Nasri? And now RVP?

sorry dude but u names one possibly two players that were ready made world class players(i disagree about Henry though).

Wenger has brought in more unknowns who have turned into world class players. there is not a manager that does it better then wenger period.

Also, being great in monaco or for that matter, most foreign leagues dont mean fuck all. Wasnt Chamack "great" in his previus squad,same as gevinho? Look how awsome they are for arsenal

 

[beachryan]

Well, Alumina was on the wage bill for 2 long years w/o playing . Sometimes , its hard to release a contracted player. City will have the same problem. We suffered w/ Bendtner every was shocked, how much he was earning £55k is too much . Adebayor is on 170k how will anyone afford that wages.

City can afford anything. Hell, they've just loaned Wayne Bridge to Brighton for the season - without a doubt they're paying the vast majority of his wages.

And Adebayor, Santa Cruz, etc.

 

[jonneymendoza]

fucking quality http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...ant-about-Robin-van-Persie-is-online-hit.html

 

[Milanista]

that rule doesnt exist, he's talking shit, i think average belgians dont know what the fuck they are talking about.

Mate, uncalled for. Please keep it civilised. This rule does indeed exist, but only applies to non-EU players. Hence many English clubs owning feeder clubs in countries like Belgium or the Netherlands to loan players out until they earn some sort of EU permit.

 

[Milanista]

What about petit? anelka? pires,fabregas? hleb? gilberto? Toure? Ashely cole? Nasri? And now RVP?

sorry dude but u names one possibly two players that were ready made world class players(i disagree about Henry though).

Wenger has brought in more unknowns who have turned into world class players. there is not a manager that does it better then wenger period.

Also, being great in monaco or for that matter, most foreign leagues dont mean fuck all. Wasnt Chamack "great" in his previus squad,same as gevinho? Look how awsome they are for arsenal

A lot of the players you mention turned out great, but your comment about their leagues not meaning much is bull. Those players did great in their leagues, leading to Wenger's interest.

 

[bebo]

@BeachRyan Link
Football's big-spenders top 10 in full:
1) Barcelona - average yearly salary £5.26m

2) Real Madrid - £4.72m

3) Manchester City - £4.48m

4) Chelsea - £4.12m

5) AC Milan - £3.7m

6) Inter Milan - £3.45m
------------------------------------------------
7) Manchester United - £3.34m

8) Arsenal - £3.2m

9) Liverpool - £3.16m

10) Juventus - £2.84m

 

[jonneymendoza]

Mate, uncalled for. Please keep it civilised. This rule does indeed exist, but only applies to non-EU players. Hence many English clubs owning feeder clubs in countries like Belgium or the Netherlands to loan players out until they earn some sort of EU permit.

It was also uncalled for when gerd slagged off the english saying they dont know fuck all about football outside of the EPL.

A lot of the players you mention turned out great, but your comment about their leagues not meaning much is bull. Those players did great in their leagues, leading to Wenger's interest.

Its not bull. i gave you examples of recent players coming from those leagues doing shit in this league. Please read my post again. You think just because they did great there, you think they will do great in the EPL, a foreign league playing different style of football, different language barrier and not to mention a bit more quality players and teams in the EPL and yet you think any player coming from a different league can be a hit in the EPL. give me a break man.

anyways check this article http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ar...ail&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

 

[Lami]

It was also uncalled for when gerd slagged off the english saying they dont know fuck all about football outside of the EPL.



Its not bull. i gave you examples of recent players coming from those leagues doing shit in this league. Please read my post again. You think just because they did great there, you think they will do great in the EPL, a foreign league playing different style of football, different language barrier and not to mention a bit more quality players and teams in the EPL and yet you think any player coming from a different league can be a hit in the EPL. give me a break man.

anyways check this article http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ar...ail&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

I don't agree with this one.

 

[jonneymendoza]

I don't agree with this one.

So the french and belgium league just to name a few have better teams and more world class players then bthe EPL?

how come its usually the EPL, spain, germany and italy who dominate european competitions then?

How come we dont see many messi's, iniesta's, rvp,s etc etc in the other leagues?

 

[gerd]

It was also uncalled for when gerd slagged off the english saying they dont know fuck all about football outside of the EPL.

Which you proof every day jonney. You really haven't got a clue about competitions outside England. Your last remark about the French competition is proof of that.

I respect you a lot as a person (although we seem to have lots of differences, but i don't mind that) but it is a fact that lots of English football don't have a clue of what happens outside the EPL (people like Abou, Younggun, and out Israelian resident being notable exceptions). When i said that, it wasn't meant to belitle anybody. Most non-English people in here will agree with me. I'm quite sure about that.

Anyway, i've challenged you to name me 6 Dutch clubs without going to google (or even French of German ones).

 

[TheJinxedOne]

Which you proof every day jonney. You really haven't got a clue about competitions outside England. Your last remark about the French competition is proof of that.

I respect you a lot as a person (although we seem to have lots of differences, but i don't mind that) but it is a fact that lots of English football don't have a clue of what happens outside the EPL (people like Abou, Younggun, and out Israelian resident being notable exceptions). When i said that, it wasn't meant to belitle anybody. Most non-English people in here will agree with me. I'm quite sure about that.

Anyway, i've challenged you to name me 6 Dutch clubs without going to google (or even French of German ones).

I can name 6 Dutch clubs, and could have a go at naming all of them!
I can name most or all of the top 6 European leagues teams.. And have a good knowledge of a lot of 'small' clubs from the other leagues!

 

[bebo]

Tactfulness is always rewarding in proving a point. Can`t put barriers and expect ppl to climb it. Football is challenging enough ,because you can be very good and be surround by players who has no chemistry and makes your game less inviting.

Chamakh has an offered from Fior £4m . He has more of a chance if Rvp leaves. Unless Theo is being be promoted to striker .

 

[BobbyBox]

Yeah you never know Chamakh might find his form now if we don't sell him. There is obviously a competent striker there (From previous teams and when he first came to Arsenal), maybe preseason he might gain some confidence back and then who knows?

The whole Van Persie situation is so crap, I thought after buying Giroud and Podolski, we would have a really good summer (Even if Van Persie Left) but Van Persie has just created a shit storm and shows that he doesn't really care about the club, unless he is really stupid, then he knew what his words would do.

Now we have the potential of arguments in the boardroom, supporters arguing with eachother etc etc and players might not want to come to us because of it.

I hope Arsenal come back and put out a defiant statement of intent and buy a couple more players to strengthen the team this summer, so they can have a few preseason games under their belts before we start the season.

Anyway after being a promising summer, it could be crappy, lets just hope Arsenal fight back and straighten out this mess. Get rid of Van Persie quickly, sell him to anyother club abroad other than Man City or Man United (Because if we want to win the league it makes no sense giving him to our main rivals) and get a strong midfielder on board and maybe another squad player to fill the cracks when needed and If Giroud and Podolski do well, there is no reason Arsenal can't do better than last season.

Also Walcott has been quite quiet, I can see him living aswell...we will see.

 

[gerd]

I can name 6 Dutch clubs, and could have a go at naming all of them!
I can name most or all of the top 6 European leagues teams.. And have a good knowledge of a lot of 'small' clubs from the other leagues!

Congratulations, you have won your weight in shampoo.

Serious now. When i said this, i didn't meant to belitle anybody. If most English fans would be honest they would say that they couldn't care less about other leagues. Does this mean that they are inferior to me? Of course not.

The fact is that they are a litle blinded by the qualities of players in other leagues (except the obvious ones like Messi). It even happens with pundits. I remember Alan Shearer saying he never heard of Hatem Ben Arfa. One of the better players in France.

And as much as i like Jonney, in his last post he did it again: Chamakh was good in France, yet he failed with Arsenal.
The question is: is that Chamakh's failure or Wenger's failure. Becauset jonney forgets something. Chamakh was a very succesfull player in the CL too. He scored lots of goals in the CL.

Henry was fantastic with Monaco, he failed in Italy and was a legend at Arsenal. If i make the same reasoning as jonney, then this would mean that the EPL is as good as Ligue 1, but both of them are inferior to Serie A. Because Henry failed in Italy. That is exactly the same reasoning as what he was saying about Chamakh.

This is not a post about which league is the best, i couldn't care less. I love them all and all have their merits. What i'm trying to say is that there are fantastic players who never played in England. That players who fail in England can be very good players (Forlan for example, player of the tournament in the last WC and a legend with Villareal and Atletico Madrid, although he was a complete failure with Man Utd, same goes for Veron and countless other players).

If i have hurt anybody's feelings: this was never the intention and if i did: i apologize.

Sorry for the long post which was off-topic.

 

[bebo]

That doesn`t make sense though gerd, Wenger always shop Ligue1 and even if most Arsenal fans don`t know them they do when they join the league. I think your point is valid I just expect a more diplomacy by your end


Chamakh was brought to strength the striking force . Who would of thought Rvp has the season in a half to leave Chamakh in the cold. Poldoski n Giroud are coming in to a new league Gervinho had a woeful start ,but whose to say he will have a great run in. Nasri did horrid his 1st season . Wenger rarely buys players from the same league(arteta) it`s always abroad whether its a belgium, south America (which I watch lots of)La Liga or easter europe.

Im looking forward to preseason especially China

 

[dynamoking]

I like RvP very much

 

[PLF]

What Gerd said.

 

[YoungGun_UK]

I do wonder how much Arsenal are going to have to adapt to life without Van Persie in terms of their wide players, delivery into the box wasn't really good enough for Chamakh when he was used IMO.

 

[Lami]

So the french and belgium league just to name a few have better teams and more world class players then bthe EPL?

how come its usually the EPL, spain, germany and italy who dominate european competitions then?

How come we dont see many messi's, iniesta's, rvp,s etc etc in the other leagues?

You were on about the EPL being better than all those leagues you mentioned. That's why I said I do not agree.

 

[Rantboy]

I say don't even bother with Chamakh. Let's cut our losses and just accept he didn't fit in. If this offer from Fiorentina is true, for £4m, sell him now! He is still young and can find his form in Serie A.
We will probably not need Chamakh, as we just got Giroud and Podolski.
Plus, he came on a free, so why not cash in the extra bucks to help fund another reinforcement?

As for Arsenal being 8th Top Spender in the world, for me it's mind blowing. We all know Arsenal has become a wealthy club, but if you look at many of our players, the quality does not correspond the total amount spent in salaries.

This is a big issue, one that AW has to make right. He has to accept the fact that his philosophy failed and this salary policy (having most salaries flat, most players on similar salaries) did not work as expected. You would expect to have a more united squad where everybody is treated the same and there's no vanity and ego wars in the dressing room. I'm sure that was Wenger's plan and he had the best intentions. But this didn't stop egos clashing and a bad atmosphere inside the dressing room. People like Gallas and Nasri came and went with lots of negativity, then again we're still stuck with the likes of Denilson, Diaby and Bendtner - who is not a bad player, but he has a bad attitude and thinks he's much better than he really is. I must say, if Bendtner sorted his attitude and Wenger played him where he is meant to, then Nicklas could have a chance to establish himself.

But overall, Wenger rewarded a whole generation of players who didn't win anything with big fat contracts and pay rises. So that has got most of them in a comfort zone.

As for Van Persie, he is a hypocrite. You don't have to be a genius to know that you, as captain of the club, couldn't release such statement. He does not care for the club, this is just PR stuff his legal people wrote. He is just a very good footballer who came and went.

In the Arsenal forums across the Internet, many classless fans are hoping to see him injured again, but I just don't subscribe to negative stuff like that. It would still pain me to see the guy suffering again, regardless of what happens. I'm still angry at him for what he's done to Arsenal and Wenger. I truly hope to see him in another league abroad.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Rvp has caused more of a Shit then Nasri. You be stupid to defend rvp antics

 

[jonneymendoza]

Congratulations, you have won your weight in shampoo.

Serious now. When i said this, i didn't meant to belitle anybody. If most English fans would be honest they would say that they couldn't care less about other leagues. Does this mean that they are inferior to me? Of course not.

The fact is that they are a litle blinded by the qualities of players in other leagues (except the obvious ones like Messi). It even happens with pundits. I remember Alan Shearer saying he never heard of Hatem Ben Arfa. One of the better players in France.

And as much as i like Jonney, in his last post he did it again: Chamakh was good in France, yet he failed with Arsenal.
The question is: is that Chamakh's failure or Wenger's failure. Becauset jonney forgets something. Chamakh was a very succesfull player in the CL too. He scored lots of goals in the CL.

Henry was fantastic with Monaco, he failed in Italy and was a legend at Arsenal. If i make the same reasoning as jonney, then this would mean that the EPL is as good as Ligue 1, but both of them are inferior to Serie A. Because Henry failed in Italy. That is exactly the same reasoning as what he was saying about Chamakh.

This is not a post about which league is the best, i couldn't care less. I love them all and all have their merits. What i'm trying to say is that there are fantastic players who never played in England. That players who fail in England can be very good players (Forlan for example, player of the tournament in the last WC and a legend with Villareal and Atletico Madrid, although he was a complete failure with Man Utd, same goes for Veron and countless other players).

If i have hurt anybody's feelings: this was never the intention and if i did: i apologize.

Sorry for the long post which was off-topic.

Can't type much on phone but please read my posts again. I clearly stated that you cannot assume that just because they are god in France it doesn't mean they will be god in the EPL with a new language to learn better top teams(fact based on European performances in the last 10 years) and different style of play.

Sorry but most folks even French fans would agree that the EPL is a better league in terms of quality of players and teams. Take the best top 4 French teams against the top 4 epl and not many would disagree in predicting that the EPL teams would beat the French sides

 

[TheJinxedOne]

Can't type much on phone but please read my posts again. I clearly stated that you cannot assume that just because they are god in France it doesn't mean they will be god in the EPL with a new language to learn better top teams(fact based on European performances in the last 10 years) and different style of play.

Sorry but most folks even French fans would agree that the EPL is a better league in terms of quality of players and teams. Take the best top 4 French teams against the top 4 epl and not many would disagree in predicting that the EPL teams would beat the French sides

But (it seems) what Gerd is trying to say is that the player alone cannot be blamed, the style and system a manager uses has to be beneficial to the player, with a big target man like Chamakh in France Bourduex (can't spell it) deployed a system of getting the ball in from the flanks with good quality crosses so he could score more, at arsenal they like passing the ball into the net, the style of play didn't suit Chamakh so that could be blamed for his failure.. The strength of league or team doesn't matter if the players qualities aren't being used, I'd imagine at a club like Stoke Chamakh would lethal again, in the premier league as well.

It still confuses me why Wenger signed a player like Chamakh who would clearly never work on the Arsenal system, and then keep him on despite never adapting to for his needs.