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Winning Eleven (1995 - 2022) Tier List

I always assumed the ratings were in order, that the different rows represented different users. But in anycase, if you have a different logic and it makes sense to you, then I guess the ratings are the corresponding ones. The misunderstanding came from a question of format, I suppose. Peace. :)
 
For me:

1. WE9LE
2. PES 6
3. PES 5
4. PES 2013
5. PES 3
6. PES 2008 (if on PSP then number 1)
7. PES 2 (PS1 version)
8. ISS Deluxe
 
MKC said:
I don't know how everyone here feels about tier lists, but I've always found them to be charming in a way, a fun distraction when you have some time to spare, they're a good way to visually represent one's thoughts about an interest, ranking things without having to choose a specific order for all elements present. Well, since this is a forum dedicated to football video games above anything else, especially Konami's main football franchise that we all know and love, I thought it'd be fun to see how everyone's tier lists would look like, how we all rank the installments in our beloved Winning Eleven franchise from 1995 all the way to today.

I'll start with mine, and I know that, from the get go, it looks quite off, I mean, where are all of the PS2 PES installments? Well... I only played PES6, though all of them are in my bucket list, for sure, all I need is a PC that can run PS2 emulation without lagging much and I'll be good to go... hopefully soon. I'd say the PS1 reached perfection after WE3FV, so all of them from that point onward are 5* to me, alongside PES2011, which was a true simulator, and PES2012, Seabass' swan song that managed to do some things better than its predecessor, even if it did some worse here and there. 4* starts with PES6 because it's been a long time since I've played it in a more serious manner, even though it was excellent, PES2013's here because it had no League Mode, and all of FOX PES' here because of a lack of fouls and the introduction of micro transactions into the franchise. 3* has a couple of titles I find to be good and fun, but too clunky to be truly enjoyable in the long run. 2* has the original because it was a rough start, and PES2014 because of the way it launched, which hurt the franchise quite a lot in my eyes. 1* has eFootball, which plays well on the pitch, but it's a disaster in every other way, perhaps eFootball2024 can climb up those tiers when it comes out, we'll see...

Here's the link:
https://tiermaker.com/create/winning-eleven-1995---2022-15499885
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I decided to go back to this for some reason, changed my mind on a few things, and also added more titles to the tier list too. I kept most of the list identical, with just a few changes I thought made sense. 1* is dedicated to the worst of the worst, so both eFootball 2022 and eFootball 2023 due to being nothing but glorified demos. I didn't add eFootball 2024 yet because, if they do add the offline modes, it could end up being very different, hopefully they ge it together in a few months. 2* is for titles that aren't awful, but are hard going back to, for this I went with the original Winning Eleven and it's localization Goal Storm, as it was not very good by the standards set by its sequels, it's not awful, just not great... and PES 2014 too, I appreciate the simulation direction, but this was way too unfinished and felt broken on release, many say it got better with updates, but I never played the updated versions, so my 1st impressions are still subpar.

Now we get onto more positive titles, 3* being the average, standard experiences that did good, but felt short due to a few things. I've put Winning Eleven '97 and its localizations here, alongside PES 2010. I feel that both of these are fun to play and go back to, but they don't really grab me for the long run, due to a lot of Winning Eleven titles just being better at what they do, it's forgivable in Winning Eleven 97's case as it set the standard, but PES 2010... not so much.

In 4* we get the really good stuff, that just felt short of 5* for one reason or another, though not enough to stop them from being great. We have the late PS1 titles that aren't tied to any event, due to me not having too much nostalgia for them, even though they play fantastic. PES 2011 and PES 2013 for being both great, but also titles I didn't play much, and the same goes for PES 6 and PES 2021. I feel most of these would go to 5* if I just played them a little bit more.

I'll admit right now, my 5* ranking are 100% biased, this is in no way a tier list where I try to define what are the greatest titles objectively, it's all about my own subjective experiences, and these titles are the ones I've, at least at some point, had as my main football video game, some for multiple years due to me not buying them yearly unless I felt a substantial improvement was made. On PS1 I put the most polished titles of that era, that also happen to be based on real life competitions I care about, so the WC and the Olympics. On PS3 I had PES 2012 for 3 years and PES 2015 for 3 years, no way I'm not putting them here, PES 2012 felt like the 1st Winning Eleven I owned that wasn't just an upgraded PS1 title, especially on the ball, and PES 2015 felt like the polished PES 2014 I wanted when I played that. In PES 2018 and PES 2021 we got the most complete kit editor, and it's when I got into FUMA, so these are my all time favorites.

P.S. Here's the updated link in case anyone wants to give this a shot:
https://tiermaker.com/create/winning-eleven-1995---2023-15499885
 

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Here's a fresh crack at my current updated personal rankings :)

Tier 1:
1. PES 2017 - Quite simply, my favorite video game of all time. :)
2. PES 6 - Perhaps the most modded PES, with thousands of patches and absolutely classic, epic and timeless gameplay.
3. PES 5: Brutal. Unforgiving. Insane fun and immersion. Only behind PES 6 due to the fact that PES 6 is better supported by the community.
4. PES 2021: Hundreds of PC gameplay mods. Find your right combination and enjoy the last PES in existence!

Tier 2:
PES 2009: Yep. PES 2009. Not very respected by the community, but something about the gameplay absolutely clicks for me.
PES 2019: Challenging and beautifully made. My favorite PES presentation, and once again, mods improve it!
PES 2013: Pick up and Go! Well supported as well, very fun and action packed. The most immediately accessible football game IMO!
PES 2010: Absolutely gorgeous lighting. Solid gameplay. I've had good memories with 2010.
PES 4: Haven't really played it much, but it holds up very well in the Golden Era, and that alone makes it well worth it.

Tier 3:
PES 2008: Another surprise! With the VirtuaRed patch, I find this game surprisingly fun!
PES 2012: A less arcade PES 2013, very balanced game. The only drawback I see is the ML training, haven't gotten around it.
PES 2014: It has an "unfinished" feel to it, and no rain nor cloudy weather really detracts from the game. But heavy, physical gameplay that is enjoyable.
PES 2018: I've always found 2018 too offensive in a way. Great presentation, but gameplay feels a bit unbalanced IMO.
PES 2016: Goakkeepers. Oh, terrible goalkeepers. It would be ranked much, MUCH higher if this wasn't an issue. Great South American presence, though!

Tier 2:
PES 2011: I haven't been able to get into this PES for some reason. I find the matches a bit slodgy and not too entertaining.
PES 2015: Good gameplay, but the worst bug ever to feature in a football game IMO (inflated ML CPU scores, 6-3, 5-4 in anything over 10 minutes).

Tier 1:
Efootball: The lack of offline modes so far takes away all of my personal enjoyment.

The rest of the editions I haven't played enough to rank them, but I do recognize many classic titles!
 
millossobek said:
View attachment 247503

Here's a fresh crack at my current updated personal rankings :)

Tier 1:
1. PES 2017 - Quite simply, my favorite video game of all time. :)
2. PES 6 - Perhaps the most modded PES, with thousands of patches and absolutely classic, epic and timeless gameplay.
3. PES 5: Brutal. Unforgiving. Insane fun and immersion. Only behind PES 6 due to the fact that PES 6 is better supported by the community.
4. PES 2021: Hundreds of PC gameplay mods. Find your right combination and enjoy the last PES in existence!

Tier 2:
PES 2009: Yep. PES 2009. Not very respected by the community, but something about the gameplay absolutely clicks for me.
PES 2019: Challenging and beautifully made. My favorite PES presentation, and once again, mods improve it!
PES 2013: Pick up and Go! Well supported as well, very fun and action packed. The most immediately accessible football game IMO!
PES 2010: Absolutely gorgeous lighting. Solid gameplay. I've had good memories with 2010.
PES 4: Haven't really played it much, but it holds up very well in the Golden Era, and that alone makes it well worth it.

Tier 3:
PES 2008: Another surprise! With the VirtuaRed patch, I find this game surprisingly fun!
PES 2012: A less arcade PES 2013, very balanced game. The only drawback I see is the ML training, haven't gotten around it.
PES 2014: It has an "unfinished" feel to it, and no rain nor cloudy weather really detracts from the game. But heavy, physical gameplay that is enjoyable.
PES 2018: I've always found 2018 too offensive in a way. Great presentation, but gameplay feels a bit unbalanced IMO.
PES 2016: Goakkeepers. Oh, terrible goalkeepers. It would be ranked much, MUCH higher if this wasn't an issue. Great South American presence, though!

Tier 2:
PES 2011: I haven't been able to get into this PES for some reason. I find the matches a bit slodgy and not too entertaining.
PES 2015: Good gameplay, but the worst bug ever to feature in a football game IMO (inflated ML CPU scores, 6-3, 5-4 in anything over 10 minutes).

Tier 1:
Efootball: The lack of offline modes so far takes away all of my personal enjoyment.

The rest of the editions I haven't played enough to rank them, but I do recognize many classic titles!
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It’s interesting you pick 2017. I’m assuming you’ve recently been playing it and that’s why maybe you picked it. Next year I guess it will be a different PES 😁
As far as the modern games goes it’s usually PES 2019 that seems to be the most revered. What does 2017 do that 2019 doesn’t in your opinion?
It’s good discussing what people like about each version of PES, they all do something slightly different imo.
 
Actually, I've been playing a bit more of other editions recently, 2021, 5, 2009, etc. I'm about to return to 2017 soon. If you take a look at my previous rankings in this page, I've always ranked PES 2017 first, so it's definitely something about it that has stood the test of time for me (my first post in this thread was about a year ago). :)

PES 2019 is a great game, with great production qualities, but I enjoy 2017's gameplay more: I've noticed that 2019 has a really pronounced "momentum-or-scripting" issue. I know this is a controversial topic, but I think I might've rage-quitted 2019 moreso than any other PES. Gameplay mods improve this, as well as playing in Top Player (as opposed to superstar or legend), and these mods are what saves the game for me and actually makes it great.

But in the end, 2017 remains my favorite installment The ebb and flow, both in PA1 and PA0 passing, is really enjoyable. It's kind of hard to specifically say why I love it: It's a combination of things: The responsiveness of it, the fact that in a way it seems like a combination of old-school gameplay in a more modern title, how dynamic it is, the weight of stats and player differentiation, etc. I've never detected any scripting, and the CPU seems very realistic and fun to play against. Teams feel different from each other. Overall, I would say that it always gives me that "next match feeling", it pretty much boils down to the fun factor for me. Tough to describe, but easy to feel! I've had my best videogame experience playing an ML in PES 2017. :TU:
 
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I did not play all games, so I only choose the ones I played.

But we can agree eFootball is trash.

PES2008 is nostalgia, cause my dentist had a ps3 with this game.
PES2011 was the first time, I played PES more than Fifa.

I really like the old PES titles, from PS1 area, cause I play them on my Playstation Classic from an USB-Stick on vacation.
These are great for some few quick matches.
 

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millossobek said:
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After much thought, I've changed my PES Tier a bit!

- 5 Stars: PES 2017 remains my favorite sports game of all time, and in my top ever. The vanilla gameplay is awesome, and is the only modern title that IMO doesn't need any gameplay mods! Still very well supported by the community! This is followed by (modded) PES 2021, which I think will keep going strong for many years to come and continue to receive massive support by the community, followed by the classic and eternal PES 6 (need I say more?) and PES 2019! (The hardest installment of them all, but a great atmosphere and gameplay).

- 4 Stars: PES 5 falls in here for me, the original reaistic and unforgiving gameplay which has stood the test of time, followed by PES 2010 (yes! 2010! The best color pallette in the series, and very playable with mods), followed by PES 2013 (the biggest change! I realized that I had played previous versions of the .exe and DLC which made the game not to my liking, but now playing with the latest exe and gameplay, I've really learned to appreciate its arcade gameplay which is unique in the series!)

- 3 Stars: PES 2018 is here (a great looking game, a modern one with a video-game like pallette. Like someone said earlier it looks like a video game, which is good. It doesn't have the best defensive system, but this is solvable with gameplay mods. This is followed by PES 2009 and 2008! I know these are unpopular choices, but I really like them, something about them is classic and yet very playable, followed by PES 4, and PES 2014. 2014's gameplay is entertaining, but the lack of rain and dull Master League mode (the least developed in the entire series), detracts from it.

- 2 stars: PES 3 would be much higher in this list if it weren't for one simple point: Players don't retire, and I'm not sure if there is growth in ML. Even though the gameplay is great and is rightly still considered a classic, for an ML-head like me, the lack of player development and aging is a big minus here.. PES 2015 and 2016 follow them. These are deeply flawed games which have solid gameplay but have two really glaring flaws. Inflated and unrealistic ML simulated scores (7-3 is not uncommon) in PES 2015, which is a shame because the game is otherwise solid but this REALLY detracts from it IMO and really really bad keepers in PES 2016. PES 2011 is sandwiched in there too.. (in between 2015 and 2016) A game which has great reviews in the community but that I have struggled to enjoy in terms of pacing and physics.

- 1 Star: The E-football ones. Not even PES for me anymore.

The rest of the games I haven't really played so I can´t rank them! I know that my rankings are different and perhaps not that usual with most PES lovers, but thinking about it really deeply, I will stay with this ranking!
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This is a more widely recognized list, although I think pes2019 should be downgraded. But some lists are just too emotional;
 
djbhhh said:
This is a more widely recognized list, although I think pes2019 should be downgraded. But some lists are just too emotional;
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Absolutely! Isn't that the essence of it all? In the sense that every game impacts you emotionally. The entire design, the complete product, a collection of elements, evokes specific emotions by connecting it to your personal life and the period in which you live. This deepens the emotional connection with every release in the series, particularly because it's a series that has been a part of our lives for such a long time. 😊

And yet, if you look at the list, I think it also shows very well the quality of the series, when it was the best and when the worst, including the emotions they brought us.




Looking back, I think that we, the people who have had the opportunity to be a part of the PES series, seen through the prism of current gaming, should be super grateful and privileged to have had the opportunity to experience it, it's sad at the same time because if you think about it nowadays kids won't have the opportunity experience anything like that.

Еvery single version of eFootball, one that is hollow in terms of content and quality, is deleted forever, you can't go back, while I have every single PES and ISS game and I can put it on the console I went back to it to bring back the memories and emotions.
 
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༺Ƥeຮ༻ said:
Absolutely! Isn't that the essence of it all? In the sense that every game impacts you emotionally. The entire design, the complete product, a collection of elements, evokes specific emotions by connecting it to your personal life and the period in which you live. This deepens the emotional connection with every release in the series, particularly because it's a series that has been a part of our lives for such a long time. 😊

And yet, if you look at the list, I think it also shows very well the quality of the series, when it was the best and when the worst, including the emotions they brought us.


Looking back, I think that we, the people who have had the opportunity to be a part of the PES series, seen through the prism of current gaming, should be super grateful and privileged to have had the opportunity to experience it, it's sad at the same time because if you think about it nowadays kids won't have the opportunity experience anything like that.

Еvery single version of eFootball, one that is hollow in terms of content and quality, is deleted forever, you can't go back, while I have every single PES and ISS game and I can put it on the console I went back to it to bring back the memories and emotions.
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The last two games of each generation of engine are almost the same, just data updates, because the development of the next generation engine takes more time, so the last games of old engines are usually just data updates, such as pes2012 and pes3013 , pes2020 and pes2021, they are almost the same

But the first game of each generation of new engine is usually bad, such as pes2008 and pes2014 (fox engine), so the last game of each generation of engine is usually legendary, such as pes6, pes2013 and pes2021,

In terms of the number of modules, pes2021, pes2013, and pes6 are the top three. pes2021 and pes6 have the most stadiums, and pes2013 has the most faces. I saw some links not long ago and was surprised that pes2013 has thousand of stadiums, but relatively than pes2021 and pes6, they are both older models
 
djbhhh said:
The last two games of each generation of engine are almost the same, just data updates, because the development of the next generation engine takes more time, so the last games of old engines are usually just data updates, such as pes2012 and pes3013 , pes2020 and pes2021, they are almost the same

But the first game of each generation of new engine is usually bad, such as pes2008 and pes2014 (fox engine), so the last game of each generation of engine is usually legendary, such as pes6, pes2013 and pes2021,

In terms of the number of modules, pes2021, pes2013, and pes6 are the top three. pes2021 and pes6 have the most stadiums, and pes2013 has the most faces. I saw some links not long ago and was surprised that pes2013 has thousand of stadiums, but relatively than pes2021 and pes6, they are both older models
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I wouldn't say PES 2021 is 'legendary' on it's own merits. It's the people who are constantly making mods/patches in the community that make it relevant. Take that away and this game is bland as possibly can be. I'm delighted the PC modders keep it alive so people aren't forced into eFootball. Personally I can't venture further than PES 2019 because I have zero emotional attachment to any of the eFootball titles and the PES/WE feel just isn't there for me. I think you make a good point with the engines though with the exception of 20/21 which were also largely rewritten rather than building upon 2019.
 
I gotta be honest, apart from the S tier 3-4-5-6 and the latest games in the series, I remember f*ck all what happened in PES from 2012 to 2019. So most of them are just lumped in the middle there. I didn't like 2014 because the shooting was godawful although I still find it a shame they didn't keep going with the gameplay changes they started there. Original PES I only played on PS1 but I liked it a lot (it was mostly Iss Pro 2)
2008 is graded on its PS3 version, I thought the PS2 one was better. 2017 is mostly there because everybody says it was brilliant so I am cheating a bit there, it might also be in the 3 star category for me. my-image.png

Efootball is at 1 star because -12 stars wasn't an option.
 
TheWolf said:
I wouldn't say PES 2021 is 'legendary' on it's own merits. It's the people who are constantly making mods/patches in the community that make it relevant. Take that away and this game is bland as possibly can be. I'm delighted the PC modders keep it alive so people aren't forced into eFootball. Personally I can't venture further than PES 2019 because I have zero emotional attachment to any of the eFootball titles and the PES/WE feel just isn't there for me. I think you make a good point with the engines though with the exception of 20/21 which were also largely rewritten rather than building upon 2019.
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Very much how I feel. 2021's reputation should live and die by what Konami did with it, not modders. And Konami made it an awfully tedious football game.
 
TheWolf said:
I wouldn't say PES 2021 is 'legendary' on it's own merits. It's the people who are constantly making mods/patches in the community that make it relevant. Take that away and this game is bland as possibly can be. I'm delighted the PC modders keep it alive so people aren't forced into eFootball. Personally I can't venture further than PES 2019 because I have zero emotional attachment to any of the eFootball titles and the PES/WE feel just isn't there for me. I think you make a good point with the engines though with the exception of 20/21 which were also largely rewritten rather than building upon 2019.
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Of course. When I ran pes2021, I noticed that if it was a pure game without any patches added (I only keep the pure game and very few stadiums because add patches to pes2021 is such a waste of hard disc space), then it would just be a graphically improved version of pes2013, but compared to the real player actions of pes2012 or 2013, pes2021's players like to skating on the pitch , which is actually a downgrade (this is an issue which Fox Engine never solved ). Its cutscenes are more beautiful than pes2014~2019, that's all.
in addition, compared with pes2019 the major changes was pes2020 it's not pes2021, pes2021 just data upgrad and milan derby lost
my point is that their legendary status is based on the quantity of mods, because the modders making them the most popular games
 
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