Who has the best football fans in the world ?

Bule said:
It's all about the education. Our people generally educated from high school and our people cant control their behaviours because of their high passion to the their teams. But same goes for English supporters for me. In Euro 2000, more than 300.000 Turkish supporters went to Netherlands and Belgium to supoort our country and they didnt cause any trouble in that tournament. But, you know what English hooligans did in Euro 2000.
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Sorry but this is complete rubbish.

First of all the same excuses about education could be put forward for almost every country and their fans in Europe, yet some countries have trouble with fans and others do not.

Secondly you are going back seven years to talk about England supporters. The fact of the matter is there has been virtually zero trouble with English supporters for many years. There is no problem at all in English football with hooliganism and virtually none with the English teams abroad in Europe and very little nowadays with the national team even.

The idea that the English fans are hooligans is completely fictitious and due to outdated facts from many years ago. Unfortunately many people originally labeled hooliganism as the English disease about 20 years ago. Things were bad with certain teams and the national team back then, but actually hooliganism was equally as bad in quite a few other countries at the time, so the English were the patsies, they were the ones who effectively imprisoned for the offence when the problem was not an English one, but something far more widespread within football at the time. Because the English were one of the teams that did have a hooligan problem many years back and because we were the ones who were labeled as being the WHOLE problem out reputation has preceded us and stuck.

Mentioning English football and hooliganism as a problem is woefully incorrect and out of date in terms of other countries have FAR worse problems with hooliganism

Thirdly;

The problem of hooliganism is FAR worse in Turkey and Turkish football so please stick these comments up your arse because you need to get your own house in order and not point to us. We put our house in order many years ago, you have not.

Bule said:
And everybody knows Leeds supporters did in Istanbul. They damaged whole city, they attack civilian people and one crazy Galatasaray supporter came and killed 2 Leeds fans. That shouldnt be all Turkish supporters image. This is only one and I'm sure that it wont be happen again.
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This is simply untrue.

The fact is not only were two Leeds fans murdered by Turkish fans, hundrends of Leeds fans were badly beaten in the Istanbul city centre. We had the video pictures in England at the time and there were dozens of Turkish supporters pulling up fixtures in the city and beating Leeds fans over the heads with them. Many Leeds fans were trapped and beaten and I saw dozens if Leeds fans, family people coming back to English airports covered in blood/bandages.

We have also had over 10 years of Galatasaray fans smashing up busses of European teams when they arrive from the airport and intimidating opposing players and fans by chanting welcome to hell.

I could go on and on and on about the numbers of terrible incidents over the years of Galatasaray supporters behavior and the acts of hooliganism, of coins thrown at players etc.

Bule said:
Also Besiktas supporters was great yesterday too. As Quaresma said; "Hard to play with loud chants in Inonu Stadium".
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I do not know a lot about Besiktas and so can’t comment. Maybe your fans are very good, I don’t know. But for sure there are serious problems of hooliganism in Turkey and Turkish football and you need to put your house in order and get your facts right.

P.S

Don’t throw stones when you live in a glass house.
 
there`s a differences btw friendly and being the loudest...I`ll take the friendliest any day then a bunch of choir fans.
 
I tell you what fans I thought were superb every time I went to see them....Bayern Munich.

I do not know if they are well known for being great fans in Germany or not?

But all the Muinch fans I have met, even the ones at the 1999 Champions League final that they lost were brilliant and very friendly.

I watched the 99 Champions League final as an Evertonian and when I came away from the stadium I walked with frined past dozens of Munich fans coming away from the stadium and I met dozens more drinking in the pubs and clubs of Bacelona that night and they were magnificent just as they were during the game...

To Munich fans :applause:
 
vanzandt said:
I tell you what fans I thought were superb every time I went to see them....Bayern Munich.
I met dozens more drinking in the pubs and clubs of Barcelona that night and they were magnificent just as they were during the game...

To Munich fans :applause:
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that`s what I like to hear... that`s worth the travels
 
this really depends on cultural views,fans should should accept other fan behaviours because they can't do anything to change it, media is just a tool to fire up fans against eachother
 
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ThomasGOAL said:
Liverpool best fans ? just because you singing "You'll never walk alone" ?

during all the game i listen only OM fans
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yep and that was one of the reasons why the Liverpool side just didn't even bother performing.

I'll admit that the Anfield atmosphere has been shit this year. English stadiums are slowly being filled by those who sit there and will only make noise when they are entertained. Hopefully the new stadium will help get more dedicated season ticket holders in.

But watch videos from the PSV, Barca, Chelsea games and you will see what its like when the fans are bothered.

Our away support has been far better than our Home support. And thats because you've just got whole load of daytrippers going to Anfield every Saturday

Shuting up the Benfica fans who were throwing flares on the pitch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haOjrqNhR6w


The Mission, Beat Chelsea and don't conceed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_BGkFYHG5Y
 
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I think it is very funny that a lot of cultures think that singing and banging a drum all game makes you a good supporter.

Proper football supporters watch the fookin game for giddy sake :lmao:

If your idea of being a fan is playing a cow bell or trumpet or drum and chanting to such a degree that you are not watchin the game properly your not a great fan- you're a dick. :lol:

Of course great fans cheer the team on, give the team their support coming onto the pitch etc. But after that support is a two way thing, the team need to give the fans somthing to chant and clap and the fans need to try and suck the ball into the net by cheering the team on...

But don't try and tell me that lighting a flare, playing a drum for 90mins or holding a big flag over your head that stops you seeing the fookin game makes you a great supporter cause it don't mean shit :lol:

Great fans everywhere watch the game first and foremost.
 
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Thats rubbish vandandt

fans of football will watch a game and enjoy it even if isn't your own team, but when you are watching your team you want to sing and wave flags to show your passion.

I'd agree that violence and ultras has no place in football though. I couldn't give a shit if Dinamo Zagreb fans kick the crap out of Hudjuk Split. It's got nothing to do with football.
 
Peter Eyres said:
Thats rubbish vandandt

fans of football will watch a game and enjoy it even if isn't your own team,
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I agree and do enjoy watching tons of differing teams in differing leagues. So I presume this is not why you are saying I am talking rubbish.

Peter Eyres said:
but when you are watching your team you want to sing and wave flags to show your passion.
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So I presume your rubbish remark relates to my comments on banging drums and singing etc.

Sorry make but I am not talking rubbish, but you might be because I think you might have misinterpreted what I was saying.

I agree that there is nothing wrong with singing and waving flags etc.

What I AM actually saying though is;

That having a flag over your head so you can't see the game, that playing instruments in the crowd and focusing on creating entertainment in the crowd and NOT focusing on the game is NOT being a proper fan.

The action I have described above turns you into a token fan.

Incidently the ultras that you have spoken of that have no place in football because of the violent tendencies are EXACTLY the type of fan that I am referring to. They control parts of stadium and they tunr football into gingoistic chest beating tribal affairs that have piss all to do with football.

These type of supporters (I hate calling them that) act as though football is their life, that creating such intimidating atmosphere in stadiums with none stop drums or instruments whilst not even paying attention to the football is being a proper supporter. These are the people who stab rival fans in and around the stadia or beat rival fans. These are the fans that lose control of their actions as part of a tribal faction type thing....and very few of these type of people watch football outside of their own team (tribe).

There are some people who play instruments at games, like with the Dutch national team for example....but these people watch the football and they are proper fans...I am not having a go at these people....

You go to Anfield and you want to wave a flag fine, I go to Goodison and do the same thing fine.

What I don't do is wait for rival fans with a bat or knife. I don't control part of the stadia. I don't ignore all the football played and just bang on a drum and chant intimidating shite. I don't welcome opposing European teams at the airport by throwing bricks at their team bus and chant welcome to hell...

I am on about the these fans...

Give me a guy who sits quitely with his family with a cup of coffee and a pie at half time, who cheers his team on in a proper way. Quieter yes, but more of a proper fan.

Also when you go to music concerts some people sit quietly but are enthralled, other people move about and are a bit more vocal themsleves. But the ones that are a bit quieter are not automatically less a fan than those who act in a more vocal way...they're just not.

One thing for sure the type of fan that goes to a music concert and wants to sing all the way through the concert...why the fook are they even there?

If you want to chant, light flares, bang drums none stop are you actually really there for the football at all? How much are you truely paying attention to what happens on the pitch?

It is my contention that if you are doing all this, even if not an ultra (lots doing all this are ultras) then you are not really fully focused on the game as a fan who sits queitly or cheers a goal, or maybe join in with a chant that then falls away etc.

Appropriate noise that fits what is going on with the pitch and the other fans and the team etc...yes. But just being a loon and doing stuff throughout a match non stop....no way can you do that and focus properly on the tactics, formations, subs, play etc and it just makes you a dick and a plastic fan.
 
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good fans might enjoy their team first and foremost but
great fans create atmosphere in the stadium to push the team forward and demotivate the opponent, they do not sit on their butts only clapping when stuff goes well.

they wave their flags til their arms are stiff.
they beat the drums til the players hearts beat in the same rhythm.
they scream their lungs out for ninety minutes.

they win their team games, week in, week out.

thinking about it, i'm a good fan...
 
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Rentalkid said:
good fans might enjoy their team first and foremost but
great fans create atmosphere in the stadium to push the team forward and demotivate the opponent, they do not sit on their butts only clapping when stuff goes well.

they wave their flags til their arms are stiff.
they beat the drums til the players hearts beat in the same rhythm.
they scream their lungs out for ninety minutes.

they win their team games, weak in, weak out.

thinking about it, i'm a good fan...
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Yes and no....but these/you are not the type of fan that I have been having a go at.

I have been having a shot at a certain type of fan that I think you can see from my posts.
 
vanzandt said:
Give me a guy who sits quitely with his family with a cup of coffee and a pie at half time, who cheers his team on in a proper way. Quieter yes, but more of a proper fan.
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If good fans are those polite sitting quietly with their cup of coffee & pie, than the best fans are those watching matches in front of their TVs.
Best fans are those giving their team the best background, visual and sound. With such atmosphere players get boosted to give their 100%.
And what player gets boosted by a pie?:lmao:
 
vanzan you are really missing a point that in this world over the majority of fans really like to support their clubs with such an atmosphere that brings the real passion of football to both fans and players, it might different to your standards or your close minded opinions but you have to accept the fact that its been settled like that due to fans expression to their teams whether be it extreme or not.
 
ZaGabria said:
If good fans are those polite sitting quietly with their cup of coffee & pie, than the best fans are those watching matches in front of their TVs.
Best fans are those giving their team the best background, visual and sound. With such atmosphere players get boosted to give their 100%.
And what player gets boosted by a pie?:lmao:
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I did not say these were the best fans. You have removed the context and misrepresented what I have said. I have said that these people are in and amongst the crowd at stadia and they are better fans that tossers who are not watching the game and just trying to makes a non stop shit load of noise and intimidate people…it is in reference to ultras and people in that category.

Ret KiT said:
vanzan you are really missing a point that in this world over the majority of fans really like to support their clubs with such an atmosphere that brings the real passion of football to both fans and players, it might different to your standards or your close minded opinions but you have to accept the fact that its been settled like that due to fans expression to their teams whether be it extreme or not.
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I tell you what I have stated my opinion and I am taking a lot of crap for it and mostly from people who haven’t got a fookin clue as to what my points have ACTUALLY been. I have also had my points misinterpreted and misrepresented and frankly I have had enough of it.

If you don’t like my opinion fine, but it stays as it is and if people don’t like it- hard shit.

I have had a go at a type of fan that I do NOT see as being as important and as crucial or as helpful to clubs and world football as your average joe blogs in the street/your typical fan. I have been hammering those fans that for me are just gingoistic chest beating morons who often control stadia and get involved in violence or at least intimidating behavior.

Now you can try and sign that off as being a proper fan and call me close minded if you wish, frankly I think that is semantical horse shit. In any event you guys can give it up because you are not moving me in my statements a single inch.

I think the dogma is in trying to misrepresent this issue as one of differing cultures etc. It is not about culture, it is about not letting people lose the plot and act in certain ways or trying to excuse the actions of such people be saying oh they are just very vocal supporters etc.

And banging a drum for ninety minutes even if you are not an ultra moron does not make you some top football fan…..it just doesn’t.

This is simple minded claptrap that you lot are pushing.
 
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hehe

okay vanzadt, my only real beef with your statements is the inclusion of flag waving. Sorry if It was a bit strong. I just don't agree that good fans just sit down and enjoy games, you can do that infront of your tele. I can sit down at a freindly between Brazil and Argentina and enjoy the immsense football and the colourful fans. But if I'm in the stands watching Liverpool it's a different story (the lack of exciting football for instance!). Your passion comes out, and as long as you can contain that passion within the boundaries of decency, without involving bigotry, tribalism or politics, then go for it.

Okay, I despise the mass produced designer flags that Chelsea hand out for example, but I adore the mis mash of home made flags, national flags (to represent our world wide support) and banners with witty comments, character and individuality on display on the Kop for instance. The flag waving is usually only done before and after games, because English fans ARE actually forced into sitting down, keeping still and watching the game.

Watching Liverpool and Barca fans applaud each others support last year was one of most inspirational events in football, and I've yet to see that from other clubs. I also remember the Valencia team being given a standing ovation at the end of the match at Anfield just a few years before Benitez swapped clubs. These are the things that should count towards good fanship.
 
I'd say fans of teams like Stockport County. They have no hope of ever winning anything but they still go week in week out.
 
Peter Eyres said:
hehe
okay vanzadt, my only real beef with your statements is the inclusion of flag waving. Sorry if It was a bit strong.
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No worries. I didn’t actually mean there was a problem with flag waiving as such or on its own, there isn’t and it would be daft to say there would be. What I meant was in the context of what I was saying on a more general note. That is to say you are not a better fan because you have a flag, just as someone is not more patriotic about their country because they have a flag stamped on their ass and a flag in their hand and outside their house and written on the insides on their eyeballs, an eat flag cakes so they can deficate flags…Haha. It doesn’t make or break you when it comes to being a fan. Those that have massive huge flags draped over themselves so they can’t see the game, that is just stupid and those like ultras that are gingoistic chest beating morons with flags, flairs, burning motocycles etc are just twats, not fans.

Can you see where I am coming from?

If you are just regular joe bloggs in the crowd waiving a scarf or flag and cheering your lads on then that is a different kettle of fish, that is what I would term good support. I think this is what your talking about and this is good and I am in agreement with you. Equally though some of this thread is overly simplistic. One guy, I think the dynamo Zagreb lad think that a quiet family man eating a pie at half time with his kid in toe is not a good supporter, but how are we defining this?

I mean that fella might be a season ticket holder, he might be bringing in the next generation of fan, by bringing his kid to the game, he and his kid might support the team on wet wenesdays when hardly anyone turns up….him and his kid might have the team shirts and loads of merchandise etc etc.

So is that not good support?

What I see as people seening as good support is huge vocal support, often such support creates an intimidating atmosphere for women, children and families and keeps them away from football and limits football to a tribal macho affair. At Liverpool and Everton, West Ham etc You have good vocal support, a bit of flag and scarf waiving and you have chants to support the players on the pitch. What you don’t have to the kind of shite that I am having a pop at that stops football being a game for all.

People can go and bang on about some of the supposed great support their club has, but when you have a macho intimidating atmosphere, flares being throw about, non stop banging of drums…sometimes sections of the stadia being controlled by ultras and people like them, when you have slogans like welcome to hell, supporters penned behind fences like animals because they cannot be trusted…..bollox to it.

All that is not good support it is fooking shite support and the people involved are tossers
Peter Eyres said:
I just don't agree that good fans just sit down and enjoy games, you can do that infront of your tele. I can sit down at a freindly between Brazil and Argentina and enjoy the immsense football and the colourful fans. But if I'm in the stands watching Liverpool it's a different story (the lack of exciting football for instance!). Your passion comes out, and as long as you can contain that passion within the boundaries of decency, without involving bigotry, tribalism or politics, then go for it.
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You see this is the problem when you take part of a statement out of context. You have lost the original meaning and are implying I have said something that I clearly have not.

At no point have I said that being a good fan is sitting there and being a quiet fan. I have said that I prefer quiet fans who enjoy the game (you will find such people at all matches) than mindless moron ultra types who bang the shite out of a drum and create an intimidating atmosphere for 90 minutes.

The quite fans are better than THOSE type of fans because they cause no problem, they pay their money and they are well behaved. I don’t think it is fair to call such people, often families, or blokes with their girlfriend or kids are bad fans, because they are not.

Now do you need more vocal fans who behave in the manner you have stated above (I quoted you again);

Peter Eyres said:
Your passion comes out, and as long as you can contain that passion within the boundaries of decency, without involving bigotry, tribalism or politics, then go for it.
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YES unequivocally you need a good many of these fans as well. But these are NOT the fans I am utterly against. The ones you mention are great fans, the ones I am dead against are twats that are often made out to be great fans and have been made out to be great fans over and over and over again.

How many Liverpool, Everton or West Ham fans do you know that control certain sections of the stadia? How many take flares into the stadium? How many throw flares in the stadium? How many fans do you know that chant and bang drums in an intimidating manner to create a macho family child unfriendly atmosphere? How many fans do you know that go to the airport to welcome opposing European teams with vicious chants and smash the opposing team bus up? How many fans do you know who sit outside opposing teams hotels shouting all night long? How many fans do you know who lash coins down from the stands onto away team players or refs?

I’m gonna guess the answer is none.

Anfield, Goodison the Boleyn Ground…..
They are all stadiums that are friendly, that feel safe for all no matter how vocal.

I have been to Goodison when opposing fans have got tickets in the Everton sections and never have I seen a problem. I have even seen Derby fans saying Everton were shite in the Everton sections and all the Evertonians just laughed at the guy, gave him a bit of friendly banter. When we scored, all the Evertonians around the guy called him a sheep shager and he called all us cars thieves…it was funny.

Do you think you could do that at Galatasaray? How about in the San Siro with Internazionale? What about with Dinamo Zagreb, Roma say in the stadio Olimpico?

I tell you what you would get fooked up with you did that….what does that tell you?

Peter Eyres said:
Okay, I despise the mass produced designer flags that Chelsea hand out for example, but I adore the mis mash of home made flags, national flags (to represent our world wide support) and banners with witty comments, character and individuality on display on the Kop for instance. The flag waving is usually only done before and after games, because English fans ARE actually forced into sitting down, keeping still and watching the game.
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Like I said we are at crossed proposes. I am not against the stuff you are referring to, my problem is of a pervading attitude and atmosphere where fans go overboard and waaaaay too far. When that happens you do not become a better fan.

Also this idea of being the twelfth man is about timing and appropriateness.

e.g

Do you think if your fans chant none stop from the very first minute to the 90th minute every game irrespective of context that that adds to a player’s performance?

I don’t I think that is horse shit. If the above were true then why don’t such teams always create that edge to see their teams past similar standard of teams?

Great support is about lots of things. It is about the wider picture of being there week in week out with your season ticket ands your ass of the seat. It is about buying the merchandise- both fund your club. It is about getting down to the ground with your kids and introducing them to the game, it is about taking your bird and getting her hooked. It is about having sky tv- so that you can watch general football as part of that pie goes towards your club. It is about turning up on shitty wet Wednesdays and crap away games when all the supposedly great fans don’t bother there arse to turn up…..and yes it is also about chanting and vocally supporting your team at the right time. If your team goes a goal down, have just scored or had a near miss etc. It is about lifting the team at differing times…..not just mindlessly chanting non stop…how can that raise the adrenaline?
It is not about controlling the stadium. It is not about banging the shite out of a drum for ninety minutes and not paying attention to the game and the football itself cause you are with your tribe in the ground that intimidates the away supporters and keep families and women away from the game.

Following all the above and in particular reference to the crap away games on wet Wednesdays…..

How many of these great supported clubs have decent away fans?

I mean that is half the games a club has right? And it is the time when you will be vocally outnumbered and the time that your team will feel as though they are in unfamiliar surroundings….the time they probably need you as a supporter most…

So why then in so many of these league that have ultras and these suppored die hard fans…..why is the away support often shite and non existent?

Who is a better supporter some arrogant macho intimidating pig who bangs a drum all game and doesn’t watch the football properly who never goes to an away game because it isn’t his tribal turf….or a bloke and his kid who go home and away week in week out?

Peter Eyres said:
Watching Liverpool and Barca fans applaud each others support last year was one of most inspirational events in football, and I've yet to see that from other clubs. I also remember the Valencia team being given a standing ovation at the end of the match at Anfield just a few years before Benitez swapped clubs. These are the things that should count towards good fanship.
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Well Barca are VERY good fans for the most part good. But they have also had problems with Ultra pigs. Laporta had death threats from some of the ultras when he first became Barca president.

Being a good supporter takes in a wider context….being the loudest bloke in a stadium does not make you the best fan. Lashing flares, setting flares off, banging drums, controlling stadia, intimidating fans etc….none of this makes for good fans and anyone suggesting otherwise is a dick.

Likewise if a club has a shite away support, then don’t point to what you do at home cause it don’t mean shit.
 
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omer said:
Fenerbahce and AC Milan
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According to Deloitte accountancy who details football financing of the top European clubs, the people who create the rich list and give detailed financial break-downs of the finances of many clubs.....

AC Milan only generat seven percent of their total income from matchdays...7% only from fans buying tickets to see them.

A 19% reduction on previous years matchday returns with average home attendance falling by 5,000.

The average attendance is 50,000 less than MANY teams with a fraction of their success and finances.

Deloitte point out that is a mirrored trend in Italian football and that physical security is one of the factors that must improve for this decline to be reversed.

This is what I have been bangin on about- ultras ruin football for real fans.

I wonder ho many fans Ac Milan have for away fixtures?

I bet that is low as well.

Real fans have been driven away as have families....

But hey we all have fookin huge flags and create a shit load of noise and intimidate and bang drums all game so they must be great fans right :shock:
 
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Milanista said:
Its a bit of a different situation in Italy.... we have an economic crisis which imo puts ppl off spending money.
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With respect I think there is more to it than that. The UK has been through very bad periods of economic decline and not faced the same problem with fans at stadiums.

Proper Milan fans are brilliant and as good as any fans you can find, but I think the wider issue of ultras and a climate of fear is significant and I think it has driven may good fans and families out of the game. I would also argue that it is part of the reason for the lack of away support in seria a.

You are actually in Italy and I am not, so I am not trying to tell you how to suck eggs or how your own game works. I am just echoing what has been said many times by sections of the International media and by the accountants who have have broken down the finances in the European game. They have spoken to Milan and other clubs and this need for enhanced security is high on the agenda for everything I hear.
 
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vanzandt said:
I did not say these were the best fans. You have removed the context and misrepresented what I have said. I have said that these people are in and amongst the crowd at stadia and they are better fans that tossers who are not watching the game and just trying to makes a non stop shit load of noise and intimidate people…it is in reference to ultras and people in that category.



I tell you what I have stated my opinion and I am taking a lot of crap for it and mostly from people who haven’t got a fookin clue as to what my points have ACTUALLY been. I have also had my points misinterpreted and misrepresented and frankly I have had enough of it.

If you don’t like my opinion fine, but it stays as it is and if people don’t like it- hard shit.

I have had a go at a type of fan that I do NOT see as being as important and as crucial or as helpful to clubs and world football as your average joe blogs in the street/your typical fan. I have been hammering those fans that for me are just gingoistic chest beating morons who often control stadia and get involved in violence or at least intimidating behavior.

Now you can try and sign that off as being a proper fan and call me close minded if you wish, frankly I think that is semantical horse shit. In any event you guys can give it up because you are not moving me in my statements a single inch.

I think the dogma is in trying to misrepresent this issue as one of differing cultures etc. It is not about culture, it is about not letting people lose the plot and act in certain ways or trying to excuse the actions of such people be saying oh they are just very vocal supporters etc.

And banging a drum for ninety minutes even if you are not an ultra moron does not make you some top football fan…..it just doesn’t.

This is simple minded claptrap that you lot are pushing.
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why bother replying if you are just going to flame and disagree on everything just simply say "i got my own mindset and i wont agree or try to see different way of things" and from your discussions these can go on forever because there isn't really a point of discussing what is never going to change. Like i've said you can say your opinion on everything as much as you want but it becomes as flaming because nothing will change in the end.
 
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