Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
Well, I've got both games and I play and enjoy PES much more. There's no debate to be had. It's down to individual preference.
Well, it looks like PES 2010 in, FIFA 10 out for me as well.
- Thread starter iluvnineties
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Well, I've got both games and I play and enjoy PES much more. There's no debate to be had. It's down to individual preference.
No undisputed choice.
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
The difference is that PES's faults still allow the game to have significant depth, strategy, expression and drama; even with piss poor animations and rigid passing/shooting it still engages that part of your brain that has to overcome the greater battle of a football match. PES errs far too much on the side of footballers making mistakes, but it still enables you to plan the overarching attacking move or work defensively to prevent that of your opponent, giving a good match that essence of a game of chess.
FIFA's faults are all so achingly anti-football that all of the key things it does get right are rendered null and void in the opinions of those of us who agree with the OPs of the several threads like this. You can try as hard as you like to defend an attacking move, but if your right full back is going to play their winger on the opposite flank onside then there's little you can do. In PES you can focus on using one defender to block a passing opportunity, knowing that the rest of your defensive unit will do its job. In FIFA you can try to block a certain passing corridor, but as ant0n says the ball is still likely to go through the tiniest of gaps regardless of the passer, and, as Jamezinho(I think?) recently reiterated, a pass going into the striker is likely to find him in acres of space because the defence are happy to stand off and cover completely the wrong areas even if the striker is within 10 yards of goal. EA counter this by making shooting at any sort of angle piss weak unless you hit a moving ball (in which case the shot is merely weak), which in turn rules out a huge variety of legitimate scoring opportunities and reduces the variety dramatically.
This is all old ground tbh. Much of what we've debated in here has already been passed on to EA by Chris, either through the other thread or through PM's for him to pass on. All we can really hope now is that EA listen. The dramatic near-sacking of Marcel and the general negativity of people across all sorts of forums like this towards the game should theoretically be enough for EA to see what they need to focus on for the next edition; if they don't take significant steps in what we deem to be the 'right direction' by the World Cup 2010 game then it'll be down to them not agreeing with our ideology, rather than them simply not hearing what we have to say.
FIFA's faults are all so achingly anti-football that all of the key things it does get right are rendered null and void in the opinions of those of us who agree with the OPs of the several threads like this. You can try as hard as you like to defend an attacking move, but if your right full back is going to play their winger on the opposite flank onside then there's little you can do. In PES you can focus on using one defender to block a passing opportunity, knowing that the rest of your defensive unit will do its job. In FIFA you can try to block a certain passing corridor, but as ant0n says the ball is still likely to go through the tiniest of gaps regardless of the passer, and, as Jamezinho(I think?) recently reiterated, a pass going into the striker is likely to find him in acres of space because the defence are happy to stand off and cover completely the wrong areas even if the striker is within 10 yards of goal. EA counter this by making shooting at any sort of angle piss weak unless you hit a moving ball (in which case the shot is merely weak), which in turn rules out a huge variety of legitimate scoring opportunities and reduces the variety dramatically.
This is all old ground tbh. Much of what we've debated in here has already been passed on to EA by Chris, either through the other thread or through PM's for him to pass on. All we can really hope now is that EA listen. The dramatic near-sacking of Marcel and the general negativity of people across all sorts of forums like this towards the game should theoretically be enough for EA to see what they need to focus on for the next edition; if they don't take significant steps in what we deem to be the 'right direction' by the World Cup 2010 game then it'll be down to them not agreeing with our ideology, rather than them simply not hearing what we have to say.
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
Yup. It was the MM bug list that did it - somebody posted the list on Peter Moore's blog.
tc811
Resident Evo-Web Retard
Maybe you like COD more than footy games then...
Placebo
Ԁlɐɔǝqo
I have reported your post to the mods so I'm sure they will happily address your concerns
Calling the mods on Retri's behalf?I have reported your post to the mods so I'm sure they will happily address your concerns
LOL, you've been even too kind
Is there a chance you also transfer 1M € to my bank account?
- Thread starter
- #69
iluvnineties
Banned
I sold my FIFA 10 copy for $30 on CraigsList. LOL
Dusse
Banned
The major reason PES is not even close to an option for me is that I could never go back to a quick time event-style of game after the lovely manual controls and freedom of FIFA.
Gab_
I agree
- 6 April 2009
Reasons why Fifa 10 is not like real football:
- Acrrington Stanley can knock the ball about like Arsenal.
- Strength and pace are the only significant player attributes. Genuinely skilful and talented players like Messi, Xavi and Iniesta have little authority on a game because they lack pace and power.
- Over emphasis on physicality, particularly in favour of the defending team. A defending player will always be stronger than an attacker, until they get the ball then the roles reverse.
- You can win the ball simply by sprinting into an opponent.
- Balloon-like shooting.
- Only one player can lock onto the ball.
- Weak heading.
- Keepers are unbeatable from certain angles.
- Crosses and Free-kicks curl like a plastic football.
- Poor AI.
- Tactics have little affect.
- Pitches are too small.
If that's real football to you, then enjoy.
So true that list. I really hope EA manage to fix these issues soon
dazzerlyne
Non-League
- 16 December 2009
I only recently switched back to PES after playing Fifa since 08. Even though Fifa does have the best overall gameplay it just has gotten boring aganist the computer and since i started playing PES i dont think i will go back. The online i prefer with PES now and there still is nothing more rewarding when scoring or winning in PES
But how do you know he almost got fired?
R
Rob92
Guest
PES makes you think football, FIFA makes you think video game.
That alone makes PES the more accurate similation of football, regardless of freedom of control or fluidity.
That alone makes PES the more accurate similation of football, regardless of freedom of control or fluidity.
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
In the FIFA10 thread Nick Cave (I think!) reported that he'd received a PM from him to that effect. He posted snippets in there somewhere.
Placebo
Ԁlɐɔǝqo
http://www.easports.com/blogs/itsinthegame/post/slug/all-eyes-on-the-world-cup-draw
His blog comments continue
His blog comments continue
DerleiPT
Pes Master
- 29 October 2009
- Chelsea FC
We believe but you still did not believe
btw. i sold my PES2010 copy yesterday for 35 Euro
Yes MW2 is fun to ME, does that bother you?
The more accuarte statement is I have more fun with COD, than I do with the football games that have been released THIS year.
Any way can't we just agree that both games have massive fault's and one should go with the title they enjoy most.
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STFU both make you think sweet spot, exploit whatever it may be. They both make you think video game because neither is a proper sim.
R
Rob92
Guest
Oh dear.
(Repeating myself now)
At least in PES when you facing away from the goal at a 30-45 degree angle you can take a pop at goal and have a decent chance of striking the ball well and troubling the keeper/scoring.
In the same situation in FIFA you resist the urge to shoot as you know that the shot will be piss-weak and have little or no chance of going in. Your brain forces you to do what works in FIFA, not what works in football, ruining any illusion that you are controlling a football match.
There's something wrong when you are not afraid of conceding a goal when a player is 18 yards from goal, on their stronger foot but facing away from the goal at a slight angle.
Of course the same problem affects PES in that as a footballer you would like to play a certain pass but the automated nature of the passing system makes that ball you want to play impossible, but for me this wasn't a problem too often and didn't destroy realism as the shooting/keepers in FIFA do.
FIFA has so many other faults though which make it feel completely unfootballlike (new word
) such as the absolutely shocking AI, piss poor defending/pressuring system, the ultra-accurate assisted passing and the very exaggerated collisions system.PES has a lack of freedom and fluidity but nothing like the long list of anti-football faults that FIFA does.
Note: When talking about PES, usually I mean only PES5 unless stated otherwise.
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iluvnineties
Banned
Oh dear.
(Repeating myself now)
At least in PES when you facing away from the goal at a 30-45 degree angle you can take a pop at goal and have a decent chance of striking the ball well and troubling the keeper/scoring.
In the same situation in FIFA you resist the urge to shoot as you know that the shot will be piss-weak and have little or no chance of going in. Your brain forces you to do what works in FIFA, not what works in football, ruining any illusion that you are controlling a football match.
There's something wrong when you are not afraid of conceding a goal when a player is 18 yards from goal, on their stronger foot but facing away from the goal at a slight angle.
Of course the same problem affects PES in that as a footballer you would like to play a certain pass but the automated nature of the passing system makes that ball you want to play impossible, but for me this wasn't a problem too often and didn't destroy realism as the shooting/keepers in FIFA do.
FIFA has so many other faults though which make it feel completely unfootballlike (new word
PES has a lack of freedom and fluidity but nothing like the long list of anti-football faults that FIFA does.
Note: When talking about PES, usually I mean only PES5 unless stated otherwise.
I really like how you describe these two games. I completely agree mate.
stilts1844
League 1
- 2 January 2003
I've for the first time since FIFA 08 considered going back to pro evo. It's a bunch of things, mainly the defensive line in the box problem- if the game is not right in the final third of the pitch, I don't know if i can continue to play.
But beyond that I had the worst experience online I've ever had before, which also made me realize something about the game - how unrealistic and unbalanced long shots are. Apparently in balancing the shooting from last game to make long shots more powerful, they are now almost ALL powerful and worse, ultra accurate. Rooney scored 2 long rangers with ease, one from approx 45-50 yds and the other from a more modest 30. But my opponent would take any shot from 30 yards out knowing it would almost always at least force my keeper into a save. there was almost no variation in the shots, nor did they ever go wild. Ever. And that's really it: if you're lined up now, you will basically NEVER scuff a shot. They won't go way wide, they won't go too high. Line drives every time.
The laundry list of serious problems with the game just keeps piling up, and this may be the one that puts it over the top. Question: have reaction times from the pro evo demo been fixed at all?
But beyond that I had the worst experience online I've ever had before, which also made me realize something about the game - how unrealistic and unbalanced long shots are. Apparently in balancing the shooting from last game to make long shots more powerful, they are now almost ALL powerful and worse, ultra accurate. Rooney scored 2 long rangers with ease, one from approx 45-50 yds and the other from a more modest 30. But my opponent would take any shot from 30 yards out knowing it would almost always at least force my keeper into a save. there was almost no variation in the shots, nor did they ever go wild. Ever. And that's really it: if you're lined up now, you will basically NEVER scuff a shot. They won't go way wide, they won't go too high. Line drives every time.
The laundry list of serious problems with the game just keeps piling up, and this may be the one that puts it over the top. Question: have reaction times from the pro evo demo been fixed at all?
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
Really mature counter-argument there.
If you've played PES2010 you should know that there are hardly any shooting sweet-spots. I can have a crack at goal from anywhere and my player will at least get good purchase on the ball and hit a powerful strike. He doesn't have to be facing exactly towards goal and running onto a ball to get a powerful shot off. You can't leave a player in space in PES as there is always the threat of a goal. In Fifa I know that it is highly unlikely that an opponent will score from certain positions so I don't feel threatened until the opposition is one-on-one with the keeper.
And in PES my player will use his strongest foot when shooting. Little regard is given for a player's strongest foot in Fifa. They're all quite capable of hitting a finesse shot or an inch-perfect cross-field ball with their weak foot. This is my biggest gripe with Fifa. Also finesse shooting is far too deadly in Fifa and the finesse equivalent in PES is much more subtle and more realistic.
The thing that lets the shooting down in PES2010 is the goalkeepers, which are still susceptible to spilling the ball too often, but that's not a sweet-spot or problem with the shooting mechanic, it's just random keeper errors.
R
Rob92
Guest
If that were true, I definitely would have noticed that being exploited online...
The only "exploits" I knew of on PES were cutbacks (keeper didn't react to it), Adriano (99 shot power...) and the free kick bug (40 yards out in the centre, lay it off and lob the keeper).
DerleiPT
Pes Master
- 29 October 2009
- Chelsea FC
yes and mega momentum in pes5 - it's so much fun for blind man
Trying to diss the greatest football game of all time doesn't do you any favours when you're trying to get people to agree with you.
FIFA 10 is much much better than all recent PES games, but is nowhere near PES5, which is timeless.
I've switched to PES, too. This was early 2002. But I've lost my love.
No football gaming in 2008 - now I'm playing FIFA10.
I'm very open-minded and not bound to any game, so please enlighten me how to enjoy PES2010. What I'm missing from PES is
- (semi)manual passing/shooting
- close control 360° dribble, trick stick, push the ball with RS
- send a player into space "L1"
of course FIFA is far from being perfect, but those points above have become essential for me.
No football gaming in 2008 - now I'm playing FIFA10.
I'm very open-minded and not bound to any game, so please enlighten me how to enjoy PES2010. What I'm missing from PES is
- (semi)manual passing/shooting
- close control 360° dribble, trick stick, push the ball with RS
- send a player into space "L1"
of course FIFA is far from being perfect, but those points above have become essential for me.
tc811
Resident Evo-Web Retard
Passing can't be fixed, PES is dependent on this passing system in order for the game to flow. Also right stick down doesn't count.
Close control: R2, and start moving. Trick stick, look up the tricks in the command list. Knocking the ball forward? Learn how to take a good first touch with R1 and R2. Also note that trapping the ball with R2 allows finer movement on the ball and the timing of the button press influences the close control. Also player agility is taken into account when moving around with R2.
Pass and hold R2 to perform the pass and go.
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