Tottenham Thread

Winning a domestic cup can give players (and fans) belief for the next step tho - esp. a young team and a club not used to winning titles. Obviously Blackburn and Leicester are different but they came and went.
I think the lack of belief harmed Spurs more than people wanting to see the insanity of Leicester winning the league.
 
Godotelli said:
Winning a domestic cup can give players (and fans) belief for the next step tho - esp. a young team and a club not used to winning titles. Obviously Blackburn and Leicester are different but they came and went.
I think the lack of belief harmed Spurs more than people wanting to see the insanity of Leicester winning the league.
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Completely agree with this.
Going out against West Ham was very bad imo. They are becoming a bogey team for us.
Winning some silverware is important foor those young players...
Look at Arsenal, they had a nightmare season, but still won the FA Cup last season...are Arsenal beter off than Spurs? No.

But in the end they wone something last season, and we didn't...
 
Sorry guys i totally agree with what you are saying regarding Tottenham as a team.

But I’m still referring to Poch being a top top manager. I don’t think him not winning the League Cup will affect that. ;)
 
Yea winning a cup won't do that but imagine by the end of this season you had won a domestic cup double -- the 2 trophies Poch is basically dismissing

-Gives everyone - including fans, which is important (speaking from experience) - added belief
-Means your best players are less likely to be tempted away

Not caring about the cup competitions, given what they could do for Spurs, is a weakness in his management, imo.

A cleansweep of the cups would mean he could say:
"OK I couldn't defeat [big spending club] to the title but I would if in similar circumstances." and it would have some real weight behind it. ATM tho he hasn't proven he can win anything. Taking that step from going from a very good challenger to the winner is the most difficult part. There have been lots of nearly men over the years. Having to win the league brings its own pressure, that's why retaining the PL has only been done by 2 managers - big managers in Ferguson & Mourinho

Poch is making a mistake acting like he can run before walking, imo. I guess it's possible to do but it's unlikely. It's bold of him, I guess. Bit of a gamble tho, esp. if your best players become tired of only watching other clubs lifting all the trophies. Players want medals.

I don't think we'd have won the PL in 2012 if not for winning the FA Cup in 2011.

edit:
what makes his attitude a little bit bizarre to me also is the stadium factor.

-lifting silverware in your home ground (at Wembley for another year) can only be good in terms of going for the PL in 18/19
-next season could be 'now or never' territory for winning the PL given that once again the following year you'll be moving into a new stadium. It'll be called WHL but it won't be WHL and you could find yourselves dropping silly points early there too. This will be in the player's minds when determining their future

The next 1-3 years are so important for Spurs imo. Not winning the PL won't be a failure but the opportunity may be lost.

Mourinho isn't at Poch's level in terms of overall coaching, integrating youth etc. perhaps outside of organising a bus, but outside of that I could guarantee Mourinho,if he were Spurs manager, would have put alot of thought into all of the above. Poch seems to have dismissed it all. Like I said, it's bold. If he wins the PL this season all of this will look stupid :P
 
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Great article on Spurs and the perception of their performances by Barney Ronay of The Guardian:

The last time a Premier League team produced a stirring two-goal comeback in Turin was in 1999 when the world was still young, when the current managers of Chelsea, Real Madrid and France were playing for Juventus, and when a Manchester United team with an armature of homegrown talent gave post-Heysel English football its first really compelling European story.

The comparison with Tottenham’s stirring 2-2 draw at the Allianz Stadium on Tuesday goes only so far. Which is, in reality, not very far at all. There was a tempting little mnemonic in the angle of Tottenham’s comeback goal, the way Harry Kane cut the ball across into the far corner from the left, drawing an echo of Roy Keane’s flicked near-post header with United also 2-0 down, a moment of footballing Madeleine cake washing about in a silver teaspoon of grainy old YouTube highlights’ films.


Otherwise these were two entirely separate occasions. United were the best and wealthiest team in England, edging a bit closer to becoming European champions every season. The game itself was a semi-final second leg. Plus, of course, Alex Ferguson’s team actually went on and won the trophy that year.

The reason for mentioning it here is simply as a point of contrast in the aftermath. United’s victory in Turin came in the pre-social media age. At the time it was reported with an air of unqualified celebration, a comeback to be cherished without objection, and indeed with a certain shared domestic pride.

Which just goes to show how wrong you can be. No doubt things would have been very different had we been blessed in the spring of 1999 with the instant hive mind of Twitter and Facebook. Those watching would have been made aware that, in fact, United were extremely lucky, overrated and favoured by referees. That Paul Scholes was a thug and Keane a coward. That Juventus were missing [insert name of player here] so it didn’t count anyway.

In terms of reaction and response this is the most notable aspect of writing about Tottenham right now, the constant anti-chorus of sceptics, doom-merchants and all-round nay-sayers. Spurs, we hear, are simply media darlings, beneficiaries of a conspiracy to project their successes as more valid and more life-affirming than other high-achieving English clubs. Spurs are the ewoks here. Look at them. Look at their floppy ears. Their bows and arrows. And who doesn’t like ewoks?


Whereas in reality this is a team who have won nothing and receive relentlessly favourable reviews because of an obvious media conspiracy. Such insight is social media’s gift to all Spurs-watchers. Distrust the evidence of your eyes. This is all, in the words of the internet’s best and brightest, “a bias”.

In fairness it is easy to see why fans of rival teams might be irritated. The fact is they’re right. There probably is a little bias here, a shared fondness for Pochettino-era Spurs, a tendency to dwell on their achievements in more detail, to recount once again the backstory of prudent spending and young players brought on, to wonder how far this act of team-building can progress before money decides it must be decisively disrupted.

Understandably so. It is almost impossible not to feel interested by Tottenham’s success. Human beings are addicted to stories, to the narrative arc. This is why professional sport exists and thrives. And there is a coherent story to this Poch-era Spurs, a team brought together out of well-chosen human parts rather than yanked-in walk-on stars.

Not to mention a simple point of contrast. High-priced instant team-building is also fun to watch. But most fans would like to see their own team built this way, would prefer players who grow into stars rather than arriving ready-made. Pochettino himself is hugely likable, a lucid, courteous, agreeably bear-like head coach. His team play football that is innately attacking and confrontational, a game of sprints and collisions and constant ferreting pressure.

Journalists are hardly immune to this. These are people who love the stories around sport, who want (almost) every team to succeed, or at least to succeed in a way that makes for a yarn. Hence the similar “bias” in favour of that mid-Fergie United team, back in the blinkered old days of just thinking a two-goal comeback in Turin was a good thing. What fan of sport, all tribalism aside, wouldn’t want an attacking team packed with homegrown players to win the European Cup?


With this in mind, it’s not hard to see the fallacy of those boiler-plate social media objections. Yes, Spurs haven’t won a trophy. But building rather than buying success has always taken a little longer. It is a more precarious business, not least at a time when Big Football’s finances can skew success so violently one way.

Tottenham have spent less on players than Huddersfield, Burnley and Bournemouth over the last five years, but have so far been a match for Juventus, Real Madrid and Borussia Dortmund this season. If you like sport at all this is something to be at least noted and pored over. And yet even as the team have improved there has been a degree of countdown to player-poaching Armageddon. The insurrection can still be crushed. Spurs could win nothing at all, could see Harry Kane, Christian Eriksen and Dele Alli scattered to the winds two years from now. But from a purely sporting point of view this doesn’t devalue the process; or lessen the fun – that thrillingly infectious sporting bias – of watching it unfold.
 
Poch has done excellently to build what he has but "he needs to win a trophy" is a valid claim given most people recognised that in 15/16 & 16/17 Spurs had the best most complete XI in the PL. He should have won the PL in 15/16. He certainly should have won something in the previous 2 years. His attitude towards cup competitions has been foolish and a black mark against his management.

Spurs should now win the FA Cup this season without doubt. Home advantage from the Semis onwards and a better team than Utd or Chelsea. Doing so will be an important step for Poch and Spurs as a club. They need to take it.
 
Gutted for Spurs. Playing 180 minutes of football and being 167 minutes the superior team, and then still going out.

Is that Spursy? No, ffs.
Spurs played against a team that played two finals in the last 3 editions. Juventus is a very, very clever team who can deliver when it matters (two very good goals) and has an abundance of experience, professionalism and cyncism...Spurs have a young team that lacks experience and cynicism and on top of that despite having Harry Kane, we have a very wastefull team. Against Juventus, Manchester United and Arsenal we should have scored lots more goals. But converting chances is a very important aspect of football, that is the reason why Juventus deserved to win.

This team desperately needs a trophy?
On the one hand, yes, definitely, winning something is some sort of landmark that seems to make things easier afterwards.

On the other hand: the football that this team is producing the last 3 seasons is enough for me as a fan. Last season Man Utd won 3 trophies with awfull football...i prefer having to watch a team that never wins trophies than having to watch Mourinho's teams who are only a cure for insomniacs (Man Utd fans will not agree, i kind of understand them).

Still, i hope we can win the FA Cup, but Swansea are a dangerous opponent and if we go through, we will meet clubs who know how to win things (like Man Utd, to be fair to them).

FD, in the home match against Juve, Moussa definitely was not up there with Ronaldinho and Maradonna...
 
I think they were very unlucky not to get through the tie. As you say, Juventus just had that experience to find a way to win in the end. The subs and change of system seemed to throw Spurs for 10-15 minutes and in that time the game was lost. Yes, they hit the post late on which somehow stayed out but also you could say Juventus should have had an early penalty. What exactly is the point of 5th/6th officials?


With regard to the FA Cup, surely Spurs are not going to be allowed to play what is essentially 'at home' should they make the Semi Finals? Why not play it at Old Trafford, Anfield, Villa Park etc like they used to?
 
Kane was offside when that ball hit the post..so it shouldn't have counted anyway (but unbelievable that ball did not went in). Son also came close before that...

FA Cup: definitely semi-finalat Wembley, wasn't there a Wembley hoodo with Spurs? I remember something like that...so Spurs are disadvantaged, but despite that: semi finals at Wembley (lol).

Seriously, i can see what you mean, but i don't really agree...

And i have a funny feeling that Swansea will beat Spurs.
 
Losing to Swansea would be "Spursy" lol

Poch says today that Spurs need a history of winning to overcome opponents like Juve. That's why winning domestic cups is important (on top of the inherent success of lifting the trophy itself). Usually to win a Cup you're playing a big opponent in the final, you're going to have at least 15 minutes where you don't dominate and it's in these moments, in big one-off games, where you grow into a winning team.
 
I really hope that Poch plays his strongest team in the remaining games now (including the FA Cup). I also hope that Lucas gets a good run in the team as i have been impressed with his appearances so far (albeit Rochdale). I’m surprised he wasnt used against Juventus at some point in the second half because he has a lot of pace and dribbling skills. He could have won a few free kicks which would have been good with Llorente on. Also with their defenders already been booked he could have caused problems.

Let’s really go for the FA Cup now plus the top four. We can do it Poch! :)

Also, regarding Dembele, wasnt Poch refering to him developing into a ‘Maradona’ or ‘Ronaldinho’ type of player if he had worked with him when he was younger?
 
Yes, Pocch said that about Moussa...Pocch strongest point is working withj players and developing him.

I wonder how Marcus Edwards is doing with Norwich, i've read on Twitter that his maanger there claims his mentality is slowly getting better...

If Pocch compares a player to Messi...(which he shouldn't have done perhaps).
 
Finally someone gave City a game. All the best wishes to Tottenham for the rest of their Man City games. Wouldn't mind a Liverpool - Tottenham final in the CL either
 
As a Spurs fan, i’m afraid that Spurs will loose both other matches against City, the ones that really matter. But i hope i’m wrong.
Our central midfield is not good enough since Dembele left.
 
Madness, crazy, beauty game i have seen before in CL history :SHOCK:. This match will be match of the year. Believe that!

P/S: Also VAR totally is worth so far. I don't know what happen when it isn't used in this game.
 
I’ve never been so exhausted after watching a game in my life.

Stan said:
As a Spurs fan, i’m afraid that Spurs will loose both other matches against City, the ones that really matter. But i hope i’m wrong.
Our central midfield is not good enough since Dembele left.
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Bet you’ve never been happier to be wrong! imagine if we beat them in the weekend too? Could ruin the league and CL for them in just a few days. Can’t help but think they’ll be out for blood.
 
Again, great work from Tottenham. As a Liverpool fan, I am glad to see City broken, had that last goal stood, they would have felt invincible going forward. But then again, I doubt that Tottenham will have brought themselves down from cloud nine in time for the weekend, so I fully expect City to demolish you then, sadly.
 
To be fair, i think we were pretty lucky. And yes i also think City might destroy us saturday.
Bit worried about the cheap goals we gave away, too. Trippier and Rose had a very bad match yesterday.
That third goal is an archetypical City goal, they score dozens of goals like that. It's beyond me that they can score a goal like that.
 
Trippier looked terrified didn't he. Though he's hardly the only RB to be destroyed by Sterling this season.

I thought Wanyama put a real shift in. Hasn't played a lot of football, and up until Sissoko went off was playing well too. Speaking of which, my god; we are a completely different team without Sissoko now! Just like we were whenever Dembele was missing.

Still waiting for Eriksen to hit form. Commentators were praising him but I just don't see why. He was much braver in his tackles last night, so credit where its due for that, but his passing has been sloppy for months now.
 
So the question is...

...is Kane a curse, essentially? :LOL:

I mean, I'd rather have him in the team than Llorente, but there's no denying that Spurs win more without him than with him! Is it just because guys like Son have more freedom to enter the box when he's not there? In which case... Again, you're still better off not playing him!
 
Our CMF, Eriksen and our SB's worry me. Rose also had a bad match (second City goal, which changed the game imo).
It's a miracle that we are in the semi's and still in contention for a top four place, this is imo the weakest team since Pocch came.
It's true that Sisoko has improved migthily, but he is not good enough if we want to be a real big club that wins silverware regualrly.
Son missing the first match is also a big blow.

Levy will need to buy players, but will he? We need at least one CMF, a back-up for Eriksen (who has to play too much, he is knackered imo), and two SB's.

IMO Spurs will never be better than the last seasonb at WHL. That was outstanding, but then Chelsea had a purple patch...

I could live with being eliminated by Ajax...i love them (not as much as Spurs) and imo their football is gorgeous to watch. Will be a special match, specially for Jan who is married to a Dutch woman and wants to end his carreer at Ajax.

Oh and lastly, we miss the best Dembele sorely. What a great player he has been under Pocch.
 
Chris Davies said:
So the question is...

...is Kane a curse, essentially? :LOL:

I mean, I'd rather have him in the team than Llorente, but there's no denying that Spurs win more without him than with him!
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This will be a very unpopular opinion among Spurs fans Chris, but imo there is no doubt that Spurs are better without Kane.
I would sell him for an outrageous amount of money to Real Madrid or a team like that. With Kane on the pitch everything has to go to him and that is easier to defend for opponents. Without him Son, Lucas, Eriksen, Alli and even Lamela score goals. The danger can come from everywhere. Not that Kane isn't a very good player (his passing for example is much underrated, he could be a back-up for Eriksen but he wants to score the goals himself).
 
Stan said:
This will be a very unpopular opinion among Spurs fans Chris, but imo there is no doubt that Spurs are better without Kane.
I would sell him for an outrageous amount of money to Real Madrid or a team like that. With Kane on the pitch everything has to go to him and that is easier to defend for opponents. Without him Son, Lucas, Eriksen, Alli and even Lamela score goals. The danger can come from everywhere. Not that Kane isn't a very good player (his passing for example is much underrated, he could be a back-up for Eriksen but he wants to score the goals himself).
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Yeah I edited my post to sort-of make that point - if his absence means more running into the box from players with the ability to fly past defenders and score, then surely he's better off being the back-up plan than the starting player. But of course, he's a big enough name to demand being a first-team player - so I think it presents a massive problem when it comes to Spurs' future.

If Kane starts that game against City, then City win, in my opinion. They couldn't handle Spurs' movement - and it feels like that movement is exclusive to Kane not playing.

He's a natural goalscorer who only needs one chance to score, he's a classic centre-forward and he's world-class. So it's a real conundrum.
 
I definitely don't agree with the idea that we're a better team without Kane. I just don't think we've found the best solution of getting the most out of them both. Son is wasted out wide and tracking back.

Even if Son played ahead of Kane would be an idea, as some of Kane's passing is sublime. Maybe play him right up alongside him? Kane also has great link up play with Alli which can't be overlooked.

I do feel though that it takes Kane a few games to get into the groove, be it at the start of the season (why he scores so few goals in August) or when he comes back from injuries. So maybe we should start giving him 15/20mins after an injury rather than always rushing him back into the first team.

To be honest, once we have a stronger midfield it may help them both as in theory they wont need to do as much defensive work.

They're without a doubt 2 players to build the team around rather than dropping one to accommodate the other.
 
Good post OBH.
I can see your point.
Kane's passing is indeed superb at times (to say the least).
But i have the feeling (an i also hear that on podcasts about Spurs) that Kane needs to be protected against himself. He Always wants to play, comes back too soon after injuries and IMO that is because his stats as a goal scorer are too important for him.

And yes, our midfield can be much better. I was very, very fond of Dembele, but his passing was not Always good enough. Sissoko's passing is awfull and Dier and Wanyama aren't good passers either. Winks is a very good passer, but we need at least one other good passer.

And Eriksen? We haven't seen the best Eriksen this season. Like i already wrote, he is knackered, he needs a back-up if he stays.
 
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FLIGHTS TO AMSTERDAM SORTED.

Now hopefully can get a ticket. Even if we can't I can't imagine it being anything other than a good atmosphere between Spurs and Ajax fans.
 
I live near Antwerp, Amsterdam is not far, but haven't got a clue to buy a ticket at a reasonable price.

Something about the Llorente goal. My other favourite team is KRC Genk from here in Belgium (former team of De Bruyne, Courtois, Carrasco and others). You know we have play-offs here in Belgium.
16 teams play twice against each other. Then the points are halved and the six best teams play against each other.

Genk were leaders after the first part of the league. They had a 7 point bonus on Brugge. That was halved into 4 points. Brugge won is 3 first play-off matches and Genkt two (lost one). Last weekend Genk played Brugge and won 3-1.

Genk got a very bizar penalty, even weirder than the one against Rose in the first leg against City. Te ball hit a player, then the ground and then Brugges defenders arm. The ref did not give a peanlty, but was overruled by VAR.

Now it turns out that the Belgian referees got a briefing about the new hands ball rule and that the guy giving the instructions forgot to add something. If the ball comes ofd another player (no matter if it's a team mate or an opponent), the ref can never give a hands ball (but that will change from next season on, which is very weird). So Llorente's goal was perfectly valid.
 
You must have been happy with that, @Stan!

Another incredible comeback, and after conceding two on the night!

Whenever anyone (myself included) moans about modern football, I hope I'll remember this week (although I hope I forget Kompany's wonder-goal at the start of it)...
 
Occasionally there are times that remind me why I love football. Can't remember having that feeling two nights on the bounce.
Amazing comeback from Liverpool and Tottenham.
 
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