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The referee thread: discuss referees and their decisions

beachryan said:
1. This is a thread about referees.
2. You read the first sentence of my post, but ignored the remaining 5, when I talked about something different. You're welcome.
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it is about referees but what you are talking its old now , we all know your opinion it wasn't a red card so enough crying yet about that , there was way more bad decisions on football than that one , and some of them was on favour of united but you never complain about that and once happen to you you're crying for a month over here

2. i didnt see that match so I don't wanna comment about it thats why !
 
Beach, i was the first to react to your post.
My first impulse was saying exactly the same. Cakir made a mistake, we all know now. Let's talk about the blatant penalty that Reading didn't get against Man Utd for Vidic foul ?

When push comes to shove this one might make a much bigger difference than Nani's red card. First of all the impac on the match result is much bigger (if Ferguson and his team would have stayed focused they would have won a match where they were by far the better team except for the few minutes after the sending off, whereas Reading were denied a penalty and almost certain goal) and secondly, imagine Reading going down because of the loss of that single point...financially the difference is huge.

This is only one example of a referee mistake. In the end this will make no difference at all for Man Utd, despite that error they will be the deserved champions. I merely mentioned it to demonstrate that every team has big decisions going against them, it is no use to continually scrutinize refs who made a mistake. Leave it behind you. How would you feel if Bayern fans still would mention the fact that they were the better team throughout the 1999 final, but that they lost it in injury time ? You wouldn't like that, and i would agree with you. Loosing gracefully is an art...

We all know what you think about Cakir's mistake. You act as if this is the worst ref ever, he isn't. People who see him week in week out think he is a fine referee. Everyone makes mistakes. Even Ferguson, but doesn't have the guts to stand up and admits his mistake. Instead he sents his assistent to rant about the ref. In the match against Madrid, the tactically more astute manager won the match from the dominating team. Ranting about a referee mistake was Ferguson way of having damage control and the fans feel for it..

Since both Croatia and Serbia are in Belgium's group i saw the high lights of that highly sensitive match, Cakir wasn't featured in them, so one might suppose he did well in a very, very tough match. (Everybody saw Kolarov's disastrous free kick that lead to Croatia's first goal ???)
 
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Cakir actually was quite good last night. He might had few bad calls (either allowing play to continue after a hand ball or stopping it when there was not a foul), but none of those few mistakes I saw actually had any impact on final result. And I like that he has allowed players to go without yellow cards for lots of little fouls, as otherwise I don't think we would have seen 11 vs 11 finishing that game
 
Wow lots of people reading tons into my quick note. I thought he was excellent last night, measured, calm and not quick o jump to his pocket in a massive, tense match. Seems he learned from his mistake.


That's all I was pointing out. That just like players, you get inconsistency from refs too. Which is just another argument why the current system isn't good enough.
 
Perfection is not of this world beach.
It's strange that we accept mistakes from players and managers, but not from refs and linesmen.

In a way the discussion and banter about referee mistakes is part of football's popularity...man likes to complain. If one feels the need to complain about referees, that person is pretty lucky...

I must say that i usually sympathize with refs except for one sort that i don't like at all, the referees who want to draw all the attention to themselves...
 
gerd said:
Perfection is not of this world beach.
It's strange that we accept mistakes from players and managers, but not from refs and linesmen.

In a way the discussion and banter about referee mistakes is part of football's popularity...man likes to complain. If one feels the need to complain about referees, that person is pretty lucky...

I must say that i usually sympathize with refs except for one sort that i don't like at all, the referees who want to draw all the attention to themselves...
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I don't think its strange at all that we accept mistakes of the people playing the sport, but not the people whose job is to make sure the rules are followed. All major sports have come to a point in the last 20 years when they decide whether or not to use technology to improve officiating. Football remains the dinosaur.

Personally I would much rather be upset about a stupid Rooney miss or terrible defending from Evans, or even a De Gea howler than a refereeing mistake.

Because I'm paying to watch the athletes play a competitive sport, not watch how well the rules are managed by a very human (and therefore imperfect) man in the middle.
 
I agree, but the outrage is usually directed to the referees or the linesmen and not towards the governing bodies who refuse to allow technology.
The refs and the linesmen are twice victim in this discussion: they are the most obvious victims of the fact that technology isn't allowed and on top of that the "public" and most managers blame them.

This said, i'm not sure if technology would solve as much as you think. Look at the discussion in this and others threasds. We 've seen 27 slow motions and sometimes even then we don't agree. I'm an occasional ref (for my youth team, if there is no ref availaible ) and i can assure that in most of the cases technology would not help me...

I think the technology will even more advantage the big clubs. What will happen ? There is discussion and the ref will decide to watch a replay on film. Play will be interupted and the fourth official will watch a replay. He will be surrounded by fuming managers who will do everything to influence him...Now that i'm writing this i realize that i am against technology for several reasons:
1. big clubs or home clubs will have more advatanges: this all too human.
2. the flow will be out of the match, imagine a match being interrupted all the time. I'm pretty sure this will happen all the time in the most important games.
3. Man being what he is, people will try to cheat and some "intelligent" people will soon find ways to use technology to advantage their team...


IMO my second reason is the best reason against technology. So now, right on the spot i've decided that i'm also against technology during the match.

Technology should only be used post factum: i'm thinking about Rodwell's red card in the Liverpool derby. He got sent off after a dive of Suarez. It is clear that Rodwell should not have an additional ban. Suarez however should be punished for 2 or 3 matches. In ther long term players will dive less and maybe not at all (one can only hope).

I also have a solution for another football "plague": players who "take" a yellow on purpose because two matches later there is an important match they don't want to miss. If a player gets the yellow card that will result in a ban, then the FA can proced with a sort of "Lotto draw". You have three balls, and an innocent hand has to pick one. On the balls you have the numbers 1, 2 and 3.

1 stands for a ban in the nextr match.
2 for a ban in two matches
3 for a ban in 3 matches.

Let's say that Chelsea have to play Man Utd in two matches and John Terry deliberately takes a yellow that resulst in a ban, in that case it might well be that he will be banned in the match that he wants to play certainly... This would end players taking deliberately a yellow card.
 
That's excellent refereeing. Clearly in control and stopped the situation escalating.

What on Earth was that 'challenge' about though? Mental.
 
Excellent refereeing.
I feel for the player who was sent off. He clearly didn't do it on purpose. Basically the difference with what Nani did against Real Madrid is not that big. I take it that this was a defender ? I ask myself what would have happened if this was an attacker attempting a shot on goal ?
The sending off was justified, but i'm pretty sure the player didn't meant harm, he was very uncautionous but nothing more...

PS: Halsey the ref who didn't notice the Wigan horror tackle against Newcastle, can't referee in the EPL anymore. Maybe this is only temporary, but this is a strange decision in combination with the fact that the Wigan player never got punished.
 
It's Taras Stepanenko, who is usually a defensive midfielder or center back, he got his timing horribly wrong and he has a reputation of being a bit hopeless and carefree when it comes to time keeping. You can often find him wandering far up the pitch without a care in the world and without any inclination that he needs to take up a defensive position, it's a shame because he could be a very good defensive player if only he was less careless.
 
Inter vs Juve a hell of match for every ref , really hard to controlle , agressive match from start , in the end im surprised by that nasty challenge from Cambiasso on Giovinco , that was BLACK CARD not even red , I didn't wait a guy like cambiasso can make such a tackle , what a shame I always liked this guy !
 
Interesting example that I don't understand in the Reading v Arsenal match: Giroud was through on goal and chipped the keeper in the box, who then absolutely clattered him while the ball was still in play. The chip didn't go in.

But no foul was given. It happens reasonably frequently, but I'm not sure why. Clearly there wasn't an advantage played - the ball didn't go in. Clearly it was a foul, the keeper absolutely battered Giroud without touching the ball. If that's on the halfway line and a player passes then gets cleaned out, it's a foul every time. But for some reason because it's a shot, a foul is almost never given.
 
My interpretation about this (and of course this will not be the right one).

The sequence of events:

1 Giroud gets the ball
2 Giroud shoots
3 There is contact and it is clearly that the GK comitted a foul.

At the moment of contact the action is effectively over/passed.
Giroud or Arsenal weren't disadvantaged in any way, so no penalty was given since the foul the GK committed didns't influence Giroud's shot on goal...

I heard Shearer on MOTD, that he doesn't understand why that is not a penalty, it seems pretty obvious to me (but then again i might well be wrong).
 
gerd said:
My interpretation about this (and of course this will not be the right one).

The sequence of events:

1 Giroud gets the ball
2 Giroud shoots
3 There is contact and it is clearly that the GK comitted a foul.

At the moment of contact the action is effectively over/passed.
Giroud or Arsenal weren't disadvantaged in any way, so no penalty was given since the foul the GK committed didns't influence Giroud's shot on goal...

I heard Shearer on MOTD, that he doesn't understand why that is not a penalty, it seems pretty obvious to me (but then again i might well be wrong).
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It could be argued that Giroud/Arsenal were disadvantaged because the act of the keeper coming out the way he did put Giroud off of shooting more accurately or having a better chance on goal. He put Giroud off and in doing so made a blatant foul.

It depends how you interpret it, but I think it has to be a foul given and a pen.
 
The point remains that it is a foul to do to another player what the keeper does to Giroud. The only context by which it is not to be given is if there is a clear advantage for the attacking team.

Clearly there wasn't, and the ref should have pulled it back, but they never do.

It's the same thing in almost every match when a defender absolutely destroys a striker just after they've shot. It's like as long as a shot happens, you can take down a striker with no repercussions. It's very odd.
 
IMO in this instance the foul came considerably later than the shot...i would not have given a penalty. But of course i could be totally wrong. If the ref would have given a penalty it certainly wouldn't have been a blatant mistake. This is a fine example how difficult the referee's task is. That is also the reason why i started this thread: it's easy to criticize them, but on the other hand they deserve a lot of credit. We have the benefit of hindsight and 37 replays from 18 different angles. They have to take a decision in a split second...
 
gerd said:
IMO in this instance the foul came considerably later than the shot...i would not have given a penalty. But of course i could be totally wrong. If the ref would have given a penalty it certainly wouldn't have been a blatant mistake. This is a fine example how difficult the referee's task is. That is also the reason why i started this thread: it's easy to criticize them, but on the other hand they deserve a lot of credit. We have the benefit of hindsight and 37 replays from 18 different angles. They have to take a decision in a split second...
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I agree it is a tough job, I didn't bring it up in the Arsenal thread or here, because I understand why it wasn't given.

But....:DD I think it should have been given or the rule or mindset should be changed.

The keeper got to the player as quickly as he did and his momentum took out Giroud afterwards. It put Giroud off, if he knew that he would get sent off for coming out that fast (Because he would clatter into the player), then he may have slowed down a bit and been more cautious, this would have given Giroud more time to compose himself to have a better chance on goal.

So I think it did have a profound effect on the outcome and so should be seen as a foul.
 
big mistakes tonight on CL match's

Bayern 2nd goal from offside , also there should be a red card for ribery for that nasty challenge !

Ibra goal also came from offside !

btw do anyone know if that yellow for kicking ball was for Vidal (around 67 min) ? and did he take yellow before that on that trackle on Ribery from behind ? I got confused !
 
Kanouté said:
nope, clattenburg didn't give yellow to him for that one on ribery.
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idk why I was sure it was !? but it was confusing as sometimes I see Barca vs PSG and sometimes Bayern vs Juve and as around 200 people were on pub so cant always pay attention to everything :D
 
Chiellini and Vidal also deserve second yellow.. but you are right PL refs sucks...
 
Ibra offside by a mile against Barca, how could they not spot that?
 
Jesus don't tell me UEFA have unleashed Shattenburg on Europe in the CL knockouts? Forget about Rover cars, Benny Hill and Mad Cow Disease, Clattenburg is the worst British export ever.
 
cfdh_edmundo said:
Jesus don't tell me UEFA have unleashed Shattenburg on Europe in the CL knockouts? Forget about Rover cars, Benny Hill and Mad Cow Disease, Clattenburg is the worst British export ever.
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LOL.
Is it possibly to be worse than Benny Hill...poor Clattenburg.
 
Clattenburg is bad. EPL refs are some of the worst. Howard Webb is the only one I would have in UEFA competitions.
 
And today? Not that Galatasaray would have much of a chance but that Norwegian ref helped spoil the tie. Drogba got booted on his stomach by Sergio Ramos, but the ref gave a free kick to Madrid. What happens next, Real Madrid scores, 3-0 and end of story.
There was also an incident inside Real's box where the Turk player (Burak I think) clearly got stamped on his toe. I wouldn't give a penalty, but the ref dished out a yellow because he fell down. Insane!
 
I would give it penalty , 3-0 give a penalty to someone losing no one gonna blame ref , and it would be better for UEFA they will get more attention coz Galata 3-1 down still can hope !
 
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