The "Not happy with PES 2012" thread

[Srider]

Seems Adam has had some play time with it.

Seems were finally getting player individualty this gen also.

I'm pretty sure FIFA quality graphics and animations is one of the things we want. I'm not sure why he can claim the game answers so much of what we wants.

So far Konami has managed to give us so much of what we don't want, plus a little extra.

Better Keeper/Better AI/Better Ball and Dribbling physics/Better edit file organization. Pretty sure those 4 things summarize what players want, yet none of them are addressed in what Adam posted.

What else do people expect though? "PES2013 is going suck, pack up your bags and I'm shutting down this site" ?

 

[Nobleknight]

That wouldn't be so bad were it for the fact that the CPU AI is actually worse in 2011 and 2012 than in 2010. I played 2010 last night and went long periods where I couldn't get the bell bsck from the CPU, and the CPU scored from a long passing move that picked my defence apart. PES2010 feels like a proper midfield battle. If only the passing wasn't so automated it would be the best in the series by far.

I don't agree with that.Sure CPU in PES2012 is more direct than in PES2010.They just need to adjust the current AI to it full potential and make it more human ,less scripted ,plays according to tactics assigned to it then we can see a better AI

 

[Jamezinho]

The AI in 2010 is less advanced but more likely better balanced.

 

[henrys hand]

Come on, what's this sudden love for PES 2010? Sure, it has nice graphics but nearly everything else is way behind PES 2011. Give the ball to a good offensive player like Messi or Ronaldo and see what you can do with him alone abusing the running.

Seriously I think PES 2011 was a huge step-up from PES 2010, not only freeing up the game thanks to the new passing, but also making the whole game feel less rigid and more realistic. Imho only the graphics got worse.

PES 2012 then offered an improvement in the teammember-AI, but unfortunately came with worse passing, worse shooting, and a bucket-full of scripting to force realistic results. I think Konami saw that the new teammember-AI would create too many goal-opportunities and decided to introduce heavy scripting to keep things in check.

Playing now Fifa 12 on legendary difficulty and full manual settings, it's not perfect but it provides a challenging and satisfactory football-experience, which is way more than I can say about PES 2010-2012... so I stick to that game until the nextgen-PES hopefully outclasses it.

 

[Ameppe]

Pes 2011 is the best Pes in next gen. Period. Well, maybe it's not that great of achievement, but, for me, it's simply a lot better than other Pes games, included Pes 2012

 

[Radiodead]

Why not play 2v2 on FIFA? AI doesnt play a big part because you & your teamate are constantly switching & making runs. Easily one of the best modes on any football game.

 

[Lami]

It's all opinions in the end.

Fifa 12 is the best in the series imo but for me it still lacks a few things that I find in PES done better, like weighty players and satisfaction of wrong-footing opposition. If Fifa had these 2 spot on then I would've never looked back. Better first touch would be great as well.

For the first time though, I've no idea what to expect from PES 2013.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

For the first time though, I've no idea what to expect from PES 2013.

I dont know why but i have a feeling Konami will pull it out the bag this year.


The slogan should be......PES 2013 - No More Excuses, The Is Back

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

Tell me one change in gamelplay that Konami has made to PES this generation that hasn't attempted to bring it closer to FIFA.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't FIFA now praised for being what PES once was?

Tell me the changes PES has made to align it with FIFA.

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

It's all opinions in the end.

Fifa 12 is the best in the series imo but for me it still lacks a few things that I find in PES done better, like weighty players and satisfaction of wrong-footing opposition. If Fifa had these 2 spot on then I would've never looked back. Better first touch would be great as well.

For the first time though, I've no idea what to expect from PES 2013.

Agree totally. If FIFA could nail that sense of dribbling (those small touches I mean, not the overall dribbling) and first touches...really it's those small naunces I'm talking about, then there would be no looking back. But as good as it looks, the gameplay doesn't feel to me like I'm "playing" football, which is the feeling I want.

And I was watching the FIFA AI the other night during a game I played...once a player has made a pass or you don't pass to him, he runs right back to his starting position on the field. That's unrealisitcally rigid in my opinion. Sure, he should get back there, but no way would he sprint there straight away lol.

 

[Evil Heat]

I could live with the problems of the game if the basics were not so retarded. Take today I got through to the semi finals of the Coppa Italia a 2 legged tie. But what did I find when I looked at the schedule? An International game 1 day before the 2nd leg. Needless to say my 1st team regulars were completely exhausted so I had to rest them. I eventually went on to lose the tie.

It's crap like this which absolutely incenses me with this game. It's as if it's constantly battling against you by fair means or foul. Today has left a very bad taste I'm afraid and I'm wondering what's the point of playing any more.

 

[Lami]

Agree totally. If FIFA could nail that sense of dribbling (those small touches I mean, not the overall dribbling) and first touches...really it's those small naunces I'm talking about, then there would be no looking back. But as good as it looks, the gameplay doesn't feel to me like I'm "playing" football, which is the feeling I want.

And I was watching the FIFA AI the other night during a game I played...once a player has made a pass or you don't pass to him, he runs right back to his starting position on the field. That's unrealisitcally rigid in my opinion. Sure, he should get back there, but no way would he sprint there straight away lol.

Agree about the small touches. That's what I mean. Not much satisfaction beating a man in Fifa compared to PES. But then I throw my fist in the air when I score in Fifa.

Yea, I've found PES's AI better as well. If only it was more balanced though.

I'm not sure if it was you who said it, but if one game is good at something, the other is worse at it. Sometimes I think it's a conspiracy

My feelings this year for both games are best concluded like this:

PES - Connected with it on the pitch but when I score I feel sudden disconnection.

Fifa - Disconnected with it on the pitch but when I score I'm suddenly connected.

Hope this makes any sense.

Some other company should come in and combine the pros of both and we'd have a cracking game. It's a conspiracy I tell you!

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

Haha love the post mate. It wasn't me that said it but it's probably not far from the truth lol.

I'd take a well educated stab in the dark and say that the lack of freedom in PES has to do with the engine. There are too many occasions where the ball doesn't quite go where we expected (even if it's a good outcome) and this relates to shooting, passing and control of players (even some player switching still). I don't find it happens all the time but it should never happen to be honest.

There's more variety in the shooting on PES 2012 than in PES 2011 but it's still nowhere near as free or visually pleasing as FIFA. Although, in all regards, I still think FIFA has nowhere enough stat driven error or individuality.

Hopefully in the next couple of days I'll post up a couple of goal compilations that I've scored on both PES and FIFA and you can compare the variety of goals that are scored.

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

I could live with the problems of the game if the basics were not so retarded. Take today I got through to the semi finals of the Coppa Italia a 2 legged tie. But what did I find when I looked at the schedule? An International game 1 day before the 2nd leg. Needless to say my 1st team regulars were completely exhausted so I had to rest them. I eventually went on to lose the tie.

It's crap like this which absolutely incenses me with this game. It's as if it's constantly battling against you by fair means or foul. Today has left a very bad taste I'm afraid and I'm wondering what's the point of playing any more.

Would you say that's cheating or just plain bad awareness from the programmers? Either way, wouldn't it be nice if the manager had control over whether a player was allowed to be called up for the International matches? If we denied them, we could be fined by FIFA or face unhappiness from the player...and if we let them play, their morale goes up - but they face risk of being injured.

 

[ccshopland]

Would you say that's cheating or just plain bad awareness from the programmers? Either way, wouldn't it be nice if the manager had control over whether a player was allowed to be called up for the International matches? If we denied them, we could be fined by FIFA or face unhappiness from the player...and if we let them play, their morale goes up - but they face risk of being injured.

I think there's definitely some intentional under hand tactics from the CPU before big games. I've lost count of the amount of times that Gerrard has suddenly contracted Malaria and is out for three weeks with his shitty purple arrow; right before a crunch Europa League tie. Then Reina (and lo-and-behold) Doni are also on purples or blues. This is normally after a 3-0 rout by me. Silly stuff like that makes you mad.

 

[Rantboy]

Pes 2011 is the best Pes in next gen. Period. Well, maybe it's not that great of achievement, but, for me, it's simply a lot better than other Pes games, included Pes 2012

+1 here. Of course it's far from perfect, but for me it's the best next gen PES. The "engineered for freedom" thing makes sense when you compare it to other versions. It is the least "on rails" PES experience up to date.
I gave up on PES 2012 and started a new ML on PES 2011. God I missed some playable PES action!
Managed to find a nice OF with 2011-12 club kits and most transfers done. Loving it!
Passing feels great and you can actually nick the ball away from the CPU sometimes! I'm marvelled!
Graphically it is better too. Graphics went downhill over the past couple of years. IMO 2010 > 2011 > 2012

PES - Connected with it on the pitch but when I score I feel sudden disconnection.

Fifa - Disconnected with it on the pitch but when I score I'm suddenly connected.

Kind of agree with this. I find PES 2012 horrible, but it's still a PES at its core, so I'm more comfortable playing it. However I don't get much joy scoring goals, as I have to grind them out, resort to things I don't do on PES, so they happen for me in unrealistic ways.
Whereas with FIFA, I never really adjusted to its gameplay. Feels a bit alien to me sometimes, and just a tad artificial (although 12 is a massive improvement). But when I score goals, it's special, they're well worked goals.

IMO the controlled shot with R2 in PES must go under a complete revamp. When first introduced in the last gen it was "kinda cute", made us smile and go "aw, look at that!"
But here we are in 2012 and KONAMI still uses the same shit, it became a bit of a joke when you compare it to FIFA, where you can curl some beauties to the top corner.
Curled shots look amazing on FIFA. It's time KONAMI kept up with that.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

"So anyway, PES 2013 answers so much of what we wanted, plus that little bit extra. Keepers Shooting Passing . Adjustments to a magnitude of different gameplay elements has created a fantastic experience, so much so I'm finding it hard not to start expecting a high quality football game. Think realistic player control, new attributes created to factor in defensive ability and ball control.

Hell even the animations. Now I'm not talking about FIFA levels of overall movement and presentation, but I am talking another bump up in quality from PES 2012. Think a silly variety of individuality in this respect, too"

If this is what Adam said then it's nothing less than I'd expect to be honest. A lot of absolute hype with no details or concrete facts of any description. I really hope people stop paying attention to this at some point.

As for raving about the animation despite it not being 'up to FIFA levels', well, that still sounds like it'll be pretty shit. To say 'I am talking another bump in quality from PES2012' is like saying that a turd is pretty because it's slightly less smelly than a previous one. People don't want a slight increase in quality from the 2012 animations, because they're ten years behind current animation.

 

[ccshopland]

"So anyway, PES 2013 answers so much of what we wanted, plus that little bit extra. Keepers Shooting Passing . Adjustments to a magnitude of different gameplay elements has created a fantastic experience, so much so I'm finding it hard not to start expecting a high quality football game. Think realistic player control, new attributes created to factor in defensive ability and ball control.

Hell even the animations. Now I'm not talking about FIFA levels of overall movement and presentation, but I am talking another bump up in quality from PES 2012. Think a silly variety of individuality in this respect, too"

If this is what Adam said then it's nothing less than I'd expect to be honest. A lot of absolute hype with no details or concrete facts of any description. I really hope people stop paying attention to this at some point.

As for raving about the animation despite it not being 'up to FIFA levels', well, that still sounds like it'll be pretty shit. To say 'I am talking another bump in quality from PES2012' is like saying that a turd is pretty because it's slightly less smelly than a previous one. People don't want a slight increase in quality from the 2012 animations, because they're ten years behind current animation.

Agreed. I learned my lesson about Mr.Bhatti this year. The game will not be bought until after a month of trawling the forums, with it being dissected from all angles.

 

[Blanco]

They can't improve this game when they keep the same engine that has the same restrictions. I will be just another layer of code on top of an older layer with shitty code.

I don't believe Adam at all, even when I see a gameplay video.
PES is so layered that you can't judge the gameplay from a video

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Agreed. I learned my lesson about Mr.Bhatti this year. The game will not be bought until after a month of trawling the forums, with it being dissected from all angles.

Madness that.

Play the game yourself and make your own judgements, there is nothing on any forum that would convince me one way or the other. If that had been the case, I would never have bought PES 12, and I would have missed out on the greatest football experience of my 38 years.

 

[ccshopland]

Madness that.

Play the game yourself and make your own judgements, there is nothing on any forum that would convince me one way or the other. If that had been the case, I would never have bought PES 12, and I would have missed out on the greatest football experience of my 38 years.

Demo 1 liked, demo 2 liked, the AI team mate stuff was excellent. Player individuality, was excellent....played these demo's all hours. Then patch by patch, the game (on console) has become a mess, IMO.

So...this year, I'm playing the demos, then playing retail after a get feedback that the game (retail) is better than or equal to the demos I play.

 

[Lami]

No rents in your area?

 

[ccshopland]

No rents in your area?

Yeah fella, should have done that, but this year I thought it was THE year. With the amount of feedback that WENB (I know) was giving, and the responses from 'those in the know', after playing the demos I thought there's no way on Earth that they could fk it up this year; needless to say...

I mean what were we promised? The individuality was through the roof on the demos, everything was more or less spot on, apart from the keepers which were game-breaking. We were re-assured and re-assured that this would be fixed on release. I bought the US version and the UK version on release (£80) and then later the PC version (£110) overall.

I trusted KONAMI this year, and people like Adam and that useless div Murphy. The PC version will be a definite this year, but that's may be all I need. As long as we have the back-up community, PES will continue to be my game of choice ahead of a soulless FIFA, but this is despite of KONAMI not because of.

 

[Nobleknight]

Yeah fella, should have done that, but this year I thought it was THE year. With the amount of feedback that WENB (I know) was giving, and the responses from 'those in the know', after playing the demos I thought there's no way on Earth that they could fk it up this year; needless to say...

I mean what were we promised? The individuality was through the roof on the demos, everything was more or less spot on, apart from the keepers which were game-breaking. We were re-assured and re-assured that this would be fixed on release. I bought the US version and the UK version on release (£80) and then later the PC version (£110) overall.

I trusted KONAMI this year, and people like Adam and that useless div Murphy. The PC version will be a definite this year, but that's may be all I need. As long as we have the back-up community, PES will continue to be my game of choice ahead of a soulless FIFA, but this is despite of KONAMI not because of.

you aren't kidding in the bold part?!
Individuality wasn't there in demos

 

[ccshopland]

you aren't kidding in the bold part?!
Individuality wasn't there in demos

Disagree.

Bale felt and moved like Bale for example. Van der Vaart felt and moved like Van der Vaart. When the CPU worked the ball into a one on one with Bale against your defender, you'd better start retreating and fast. The dribblers in the game - Robben, Ribbery, Bale etc etc, were dynamite - but this was in context to the rest of the players. For example Rooney, would always look to drop off the last defender into the space between defence and midfield, pick the ball up and act as play maker. Berbatov had a lovely technical languid style, wingers like Giggs and Nani were tricksters. Even the Rangers striker Jelavic was awesome in the air.

Players respected their stats and had a great degree of individuality. Sneijder for example was a stunning play maker in the centre of the park, looking to hit long accurate balls for the pacy Eto'o.

Rooney was so hard to knock off the ball and had lovely technical ability with little incisive passes, and a hammer of a shot.

Have I imagined all this on another planet somewhere?!?

Now everyone seems to possess the dribbling capacity of Bale, Robben, Ribbery et al and Heskey is like a hybrid of Pele/Maradona with the ferocious aerial ability of Duncan Ferguson combined with the balance of George Best.

A little insane wouldn't you agree.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

And don't forget Heskey .................

 

[Nobleknight]

Disagree.

Bale felt and moved like Bale for example. Van der Vaart felt and moved like Van der Vaart. When the CPU worked the ball into a one on one with Bale against your defender, you'd better start retreating and fast. The dribblers in the game - Robben, Ribbery, Bale etc etc, were dynamite - but this was in context to the rest of the players. For example Rooney, would always look to drop off the last defender into the space between defence and midfield, pick the ball up and act as play maker. Berbatov had a lovely technical languid style, wingers like Giggs and Nani were tricksters. Even the Rangers striker Jelavic was awesome in the air.

Players respected their stats and had a great degree of individuality. Sneijder for example was a stunning play maker in the centre of the park, looking to hit long accurate balls for the pacy Eto'o.

Rooney was so hard to knock off the ball and had lovely technical ability with little incisive passes, and a hammer of a shot.

Have I imagined all this on another planet somewhere?!?

Now everyone seems to possess the dribbling capacity of Bale, Robben, Ribbery et al and Heskey is like a hybrid of Pele/Maradona with the ferocious aerial ability of Duncan Ferguson combined with the balance of George Best.

A little insane wouldn't you agree.

in bold that was there in the demos but you might haven't notice it
I was able to dribble with Gattuso as I did with robinho ,in demo 1
Player movement was great on both demos esp demo 1 but every single player had the skill of messi ,that's what I didn't like
Instead of fixing it ,they increased the scripting level in the retail version till the last patch 1.03

 

[Northzzz]

in bold that was there in the demos but you might haven't notice it
I was able to dribble with Gattuso as I did with robinho ,in demo 1
Player movement was great on both demos esp demo 1 but every single player had the skill of messi ,that's what I didn't like
Instead of fixing it ,they increased the scripting level in the retail version till the last patch 1.03

Yeah that really was one of the main criticisms people had of the demos.

 

[Jamezinho]

Madness that.

Play the game yourself and make your own judgements, there is nothing on any forum that would convince me one way or the other. If that had been the case, I would never have bought PES 12, and I would have missed out on the greatest football experience of my 38 years.

It's not madness at all, more like a sensible move as far as PES is concerned. The betas/demos are not a true indication of the final product, which has been the case for the last two years. So why should I hand over my money on day one?

This will be the first year in a long time that I won't have PES on some kind of pre-order, whether it be online or in-store. Normally I reserve a copy as soon as it's available for pre-order but this year I will be buying at least a week after release. The only chance of me buying the game on day one is if the early videos show clear evidence of massive change and the demo/s absolutely blow my socks off.

Regarding Adam - I find it hard to believe people still hang on his every word. Every year his hype machine follows the same formula. He tries to calm expectations from the outset but instantly contradicts himself in doing so, subsequently sending his followers into a frenzy.

What an idiot.

 

[Daytripper]

It's not madness at all, more like a sensible move as far as PES is concerned. The betas/demos are not a true indication of the final product, which has been the case for the last two years. So why should I hand over my money on day one?

This will be the first year in a long time that I won't have PES on some kind of pre-order, whether it be online or in-store. Normally I reserve a copy as soon as it's available for pre-order but this year I will be buying at least a week after release. The only chance of me buying the game on day one is if the early videos show clear evidence of massive change and the demo/s absolutely blow my socks off.

Regarding Adam - I find it hard to believe people still hang on his every word. Every year his hype machine follows the same formula. He tries to calm expectations from the outset but instantly contradicts himself in doing so, subsequently sending his followers into a frenzy.

What an idiot.

He's not that soft I assure you.