The key components to make an enjoyable football game

m.schumacher said:
I personally think FIFA 12 is closer to real life football and I know im going to get shot down for this.

Ball Physics in FIFA are a lot better for 1 thing like.
Player movements and animations in general are a lot better and players feel like they have weight and substance to them.
Compared to PES in my opinion FIFA feels more open and does a lot of the things you ask it to do. PES still does what it wants to do the CPU takes control of everything and decides im passin it to someone stood miles away when im not.

Shooting in FIFA is better to due to the physics and shots look more lifelike. In PES they are way too tame and dont go where you aim them to on the stick and look way too unconvincing and have done for years like. The golden days of PES5 and 6 is still where its at. FIFA aint perfect by any means but plays a better Next Gen experience compared to Pro Evo which is miles off the pace.
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PS2 PES is on rails and once you play semi 360 movement it is hard to go back to the 8 direction only play. Passing was too assisted too.
 
oh yeah man I know that but im just sayin its still stuck on rails compared to the "other" game which feels much more realistic imo.
 
lancers said:
PS2 PES is on rails and once you play semi 360 movement it is hard to go back to the 8 direction only play. Passing was too assisted too.
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its true i cant go back mechanics are to dated. However for its time it was way ahead of fifa 12 et al...but going back..no I cant.

FIFA 12 has a lot going right for it.
 
Interesting topic, but I disagree with the OP's wish to turn football-games into something like the "highlights-show" of TV where only the working moves are shown.

I really like to see football-games go much more the simulation-route than they currently do and to ultimately create something you can play a full 90-min-match in and be able to feel the thrill, variance... a reallife match offers.

I also know that many people find real matches dull and prefer the summary-highlights-show, but I love full matches and love to see how the teams probe their opportunities, try this and that, and fail and try to improve playing together within the 90 minutes until the moment of brilliance comes up.

I love these moments of brilliance but I love them because I've seen all the trying and failing before it, the build-up to that brilliance is imho just as important as the brilliant moment itself.

As to PES 2012 vs Fifa 12, eventhough I'm a PES-fan since PES 3 and it took me a few weeks to get into Fifa 12, I have to admit Fifa 12 is clearly miles better than PES 2012.

Yes, some zip and acceleration is missing, but with edited sliders Fifa 12 plays really well and is pretty close to the real thing, doesn't help though for online-players. Out of the box it is very dull.

Momentum and inertia needs a lot of work though for future iterations.
 
henrys hand said:
Interesting topic, but I disagree with the OP's wish to turn football-games into something like the "highlights-show" of TV where only the working moves are shown.

I really like to see football-games go much more the simulation-route than they currently do and to ultimately create something you can play a full 90-min-match in and be able to feel the thrill, variance... a reallife match offers.

I also know that many people find real matches dull and prefer the summary-highlights-show, but I love full matches and love to see how the teams probe their opportunities, try this and that, and fail and try to improve playing together within the 90 minutes until the moment of brilliance comes up.

I love these moments of brilliance but I love them because I've seen all the trying and failing before it, the build-up to that brilliance is imho just as important as the brilliant moment itself.

As to PES 2012 vs Fifa 12, eventhough I'm a PES-fan since PES 3 and it took me a few weeks to get into Fifa 12, I have to admit Fifa 12 is clearly miles better than PES 2012.

Yes, some zip and acceleration is missing, but with edited sliders Fifa 12 plays really well and is pretty close to the real thing, doesn't help though for online-players. Out of the box it is very dull.

Momentum and inertia needs a lot of work though for future iterations.
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Gameplay is the same in FIFA, better movements, yes, better shooting, yes, but FIFA has the lack of "something" that PES 2012 still being a not very good game has.
 
henrys hand said:
Interesting topic, but I disagree with the OP's wish to turn football-games into something like the "highlights-show" of TV where only the working moves are shown.

I really like to see football-games go much more the simulation-route than they currently do and to ultimately create something you can play a full 90-min-match in and be able to feel the thrill, variance... a reallife match offers.

I also know that many people find real matches dull and prefer the summary-highlights-show, but I love full matches and love to see how the teams probe their opportunities, try this and that, and fail and try to improve playing together within the 90 minutes until the moment of brilliance comes up.

I love these moments of brilliance but I love them because I've seen all the trying and failing before it, the build-up to that brilliance is imho just as important as the brilliant moment itself.

As to PES 2012 vs Fifa 12, eventhough I'm a PES-fan since PES 3 and it took me a few weeks to get into Fifa 12, I have to admit Fifa 12 is clearly miles better than PES 2012.

Yes, some zip and acceleration is missing, but with edited sliders Fifa 12 plays really well and is pretty close to the real thing, doesn't help though for online-players. Out of the box it is very dull.

Momentum and inertia needs a lot of work though for future iterations.
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yes but most people like to pick up n play 10 min games...so it cant be too sim!

I find fifa 12 though imporved by sliders still plays ok on default against humans.

FIFA 12 default versus CPU is one dull game though.
 
Flaw3d Genuis said:
Yep, Imagine playing through 10 seasons of career mode or master league with 90 minute matches? Would take about 4 years lol
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Man it takes me long enough with 10min matches cant even imagine 15-20m nevermind 90mins.

Video games are meant to be fun after all.

I play flight sim now and then and thats pretty cool but even games like gran turismo 5 i find quite boring much prefer mario kart.

Remember sensi soccer or striker these games were fun as hell....and in no way at all sim like.
 
juliovodoo said:
Gameplay is the same in FIFA, better movements, yes, better shooting, yes, but FIFA has the lack of "something" that PES 2012 still being a not very good game has.
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You're just trying to find something attractive about the ugliest girl at the CYO dance. What is the something you are talking about?
 
lancers said:
You're just trying to find something attractive about the ugliest girl at the CYO dance. What is the something you are talking about?
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Fifa does lack a ''somethiing'' that makes it a classic game...PES doesnt lack a something...it lacks a shitload of stuff lol
 
lancers said:
You're just trying to find something attractive about the ugliest girl at the CYO dance. What is the something you are talking about?
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Great comparision about that girl :BOP: and may be you are right, I preffer PES over FIFA but I´m trying to see the best part of PES this year (turfs, gameplay pathces...) and I´m nearly to find it.
You may call me mad but I think PES is closer to a match on TV than FIFA.
 
Flaw3d Genuis said:
Yep, Imagine playing through 10 seasons of career mode or master league with 90 minute matches? Would take about 4 years lol
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Yes, but if the gameplay is so realistic, challenging and rewarding as real-life football, you wouldn't feel the urge to play 10 seasons, you would be content with just one season for the whole year, just like in real-life.

Just like you would be content with a single 90-minute-match a day instead of multiple ones in succession.

To make transition painless to that new paradigm, there should be two gameplay's built into the game, one for the highlight-gaming of 10/15 mins, and a real simulation-version for the 45/90 min-gaming.
 
henrys hand said:
Yes, but if the gameplay is so realistic, challenging and rewarding as real-life football, you wouldn't feel the urge to play 10 seasons, you would be content with just one season for the whole year, just like in real-life.

Just like you would be content with a single 90-minute-match a day instead of multiple ones in succession.

To make transition painless to that new paradigm, there should be two gameplay's built into the game, one for the highlight-gaming of 10/15 mins, and a real simulation-version for the 45/90 min-gaming.
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Half the fun for me is buying and selling players and putting a team together so playing one season just wouldnt be entertaining.
 
henrys hand said:
Yes, but if the gameplay is so realistic, challenging and rewarding as real-life football, you wouldn't feel the urge to play 10 seasons, you would be content with just one season for the whole year, just like in real-life.

Just like you would be content with a single 90-minute-match a day instead of multiple ones in succession.

To make transition painless to that new paradigm, there should be two gameplay's built into the game, one for the highlight-gaming of 10/15 mins, and a real simulation-version for the 45/90 min-gaming.
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speak for yourself me and most gamers out there will not sit and play 90min games..

They aint gonna design or market a game to 0.01% of population. What about the 15-20minute periods when there is no shots? Or the other team has all possesion for 5-10minutes...who boring would this be?!

Often with the lack of chacnes created in a 10min game it feels to me like a real 90mins game tbh moreso than a highlights show.

Whys call of duty so dumbed down and silly? Cause it sells!

Tbh fifa is more complex than many footy games of past as it is especially for casaul gamers and as falwed genuis says the fun like football manager is buildign a team, cup runs, relegations, promotions etc...so i need seasons to go fast.
 
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pes4lyfe said:
speak for yourself me and most gamers out there will not sit and play 90min games..

They aint gonna design or market a game to 0.01% of population. What about the 15-20minute periods when there is no shots? Or the other team has all possesion for 5-10minutes...who boring would this be?!
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It's very seldom that a team can keep possession for 5-10 minutes, actually I can't remember a real match where that was the case... but I get your point: For lots of people real football is boring, but for me and others real football is interesting in its whole reality and I would like to see it replicated in a game in its whole.

And when everything works as it should and more people try it out I bet more and more people would find it attractive, too.

But since right now only a minority would find it interesting it's necessary to have also the short 10/15 mins gameplay intact.

So why can't we have both in a game, say an extra-mode for the purists with gameplay tuned to be as realistic as possible, with gameplay tuned for a full match?
 
henrys hand said:
It's very seldom that a team can keep possession for 5-10 minutes, actually I can't remember a real match where that was the case... but I get your point: For lots of people real football is boring, but for me and others real football is interesting in its whole reality and I would like to see it replicated in a game in its whole.

And when everything works as it should and more people try it out I bet more and more people would find it attractive, too.

But since right now only a minority would find it interesting it's necessary to have also the short 10/15 mins gameplay intact.

So why can't we have both in a game, say an extra-mode for the purists with gameplay tuned to be as realistic as possible, with gameplay tuned for a full match?
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No one is going to play 90 minute games. I play 20 that is quite long enough. There has to be 20 or so minutes of dead time in a match when the ball goes out of play or the refs give a scolding things like that but it cannot be replicated for stuff like bathroom breaks and such.
 
lancers said:
No one is going to play 90 minute games. I play 20 that is quite long enough. There has to be 20 or so minutes of dead time in a match when the ball goes out of play or the refs give a scolding things like that but it cannot be replicated for stuff like bathroom breaks and such.
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Speak for yourself, in PES 2012 there is the option to play 30 minutes per half, so overall it's 60 minutes per match and I didn't find that long nor problematic. The only problem was that PES 2012 is just not good enough at the moment.

On PC there are mods that allow for 90-min-full-matches and there are people playing it that way, but the problem is still that the game in itself is not yet good enough to be varied and engaging for that time.

But once the game is great I would like a special purist-mode for a full 90-min-match in the console-versions as a viable option.
 
The problem with the slow passing on FIFA is that if you fix it via sliders offline, when you play online, it's a different game altogether. The same goes for the power bar fill up time. You can sometimes really sky shots into the crowd because of default settings and lag!

While sliders may be good to customise certain options, the BASE/DEFAULT settings should be optimised so that playing against other human opponents is not a rude shock in terms of what you expect the game or buttons to do.
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
The problem with the slow passing on FIFA is that if you fix it via sliders offline, when you play online, it's a different game altogether. The same goes for the power bar fill up time. You can sometimes really sky shots into the crowd because of default settings and lag!

While sliders may be good to customise certain options, the BASE/DEFAULT settings should be optimised so that playing against other human opponents is not a rude shock in terms of what you expect the game or buttons to do.
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I know its liek I have 2 games. An online and an offline game.

For me though the CPU AI is more an issue than the actual game deaflat sliders.

I have had some thrilling games online and that is with default sliders so this proves to me that the problem with the game offline is the CPU AI. For me they make it impossible to get many chances on Pro and above. Below Pro is just to easy.

Nonetheless, default sliders can be improved.
 
I too have had some cracking games online, but there are far too many chances created 1 v 1 with the keeper. Still a defensive line that wanders around aimlessly and parts like the red sea. Every move still seems to play out via diagonal pass, move, diagonal pass, move, etc etc.

I try to break things up by playing through balls and chipped balls into space or sweeping switches of play but there's still a lot of easy chances created.
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
I too have had some cracking games online, but there are far too many chances created 1 v 1 with the keeper. Still a defensive line that wanders around aimlessly and parts like the red sea. Every move still seems to play out via diagonal pass, move, diagonal pass, move, etc etc.

I try to break things up by playing through balls and chipped balls into space or sweeping switches of play but there's still a lot of easy chances created.
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Ye I agree its a problem and many goals are from 1v1 breaks sadly etc....

The fact the sliders can be modified to make this less so the case offline goes to prove FIFA have built an engine for the ulitmate football game to be played on. They just have not perfected the gameplay yet.
 
Actually i think manual passing and increased passing speed can fix fifa 12 passing issues. However, i am not so great at manual passing as I not tried it much.

If you master manual passing you really open up the game and can play fast or slow passes anywhere on the pitch.
 
I'd actually love a manual modifier on FIFA like there is on PES. Because 90% of my passes I want played to someone's feet, but when I want some creativity or extra options, I'd like a manual pass or cross.

The only other option is to play with assisted passing and put through balls on manual so you can use that button for short (or long) manual passes.
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
I'd actually love a manual modifier on FIFA like there is on PES. Because 90% of my passes I want played to someone's feet, but when I want some creativity or extra options, I'd like a manual pass or cross.

The only other option is to play with assisted passing and put through balls on manual so you can use that button for short (or long) manual passes.
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You can put the ball wherever you want using full manual passing in FIFA.
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
I'd actually love a manual modifier on FIFA like there is on PES. Because 90% of my passes I want played to someone's feet, but when I want some creativity or extra options, I'd like a manual pass or cross.

The only other option is to play with assisted passing and put through balls on manual so you can use that button for short (or long) manual passes.
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yes i was thinking that but IMO the assisted troguh ball is pretty sweet CPU AI does a good job with the through and lofted through balls IMO.
 
pes4lyfe said:
you can...but it doesnt always go where you want it haha..unless you are expert!!
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Yeah you really need to be extremely good to handle manual but it is very rewarding as you can have an advantage over assisted and Semi users if indeed your good enough, My mate plays manual and he is a wizard at the game he beats most people he plays.
 
Flaw3d Genuis said:
Yeah you really need to be extremely good to handle manual but it is very rewarding as you can have an advantage over assisted and Semi users if indeed your good enough, My mate plays manual and he is a wizard at the game he beats most people he plays.
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yeh i just tried it. I made some chances, goals and moves that would be impossible even on semi.

I felt like I had ability to put ball anywhere and much much more freedom when I had possesion.

However, I also felt like I had no idea where the ball was gonna go and 50/50 chance Id fuk it up lol. Like walking on egg shells kinda thing...

If you get good at manual it would make the game much better but it seems to take a lot of concentration. Even simple passes can be fukd up.
 
It can be really good against a human opponent also on manual as it's not so much of a cheap goalfest and you have to work hard for the goals. Also looks a bit more organic because passes aren't always straight to feet. But if you play against an assisted player or the CPU, it can be frustrating as anything.
 
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