The best British side ever in one season...

[RuneEdge]

Is it more impressive to complete a game with unlimited lives or to just complete it by playing well with a normal amount of lives? Carve it up and present it any way you like, the achievements of Chel$ki this season are born of finance, while those of Arsenal are of football.

You would be a fool to suggest that CFC have not been the best team in the country this season, but you would be similarly foolish if you dont concede that without the wealth of the Russian economy behind them quite simply NONE of this would have happened. Chelsea would still be £40 in debt, they'd still have Claudio, no Jose, no Robben, no Cech. If you are asking which is more impressive then there is no contest.

I've said this before and I say it again. Chelsea's title win was definately because of money. Chelsea the football club (which means the board and the staff) and all of Chelsea's fans dont deserve it cuz they were basically chosen by Abramovich to suceed in the Premiership. But each and everyone of the players on the pitch had to do their part to win and its unfair to say that the Chelsea players dont deserve it. They, just like every other footballer on the planet, had to step onto the pitch and win the game for the team. All the talk about money is for off the pitch but on the pitch, did Abramovich pay for each goal scored?

My point is that what Chelsea and Abramovich have done isnt impressive but what those 11 men on the pitch did was more impressive than what Arsenal did last season.

 

[Clockender]

My point is that what Chelsea and Abramovich have done isnt impressive but what those 11 men on the pitch did was more impressive than what Arsenal did last season.

Come on mate, we were unbeaten in the league, they weren't.

Its widely accepted that Chelsea play "effective football" whilst last season were played attractive attacking football.

And you still think Chelsea's season is better?

 

[Vannizzlefashizzal]

Come on mate, we were unbeaten in the league, they weren't.

Its widely accepted that Chelsea play "effective football" whilst last season were played attractive attacking football.

And you still think Chelsea's season is better?

I see what your saying cos some of the football that you played last year was 1st class where as this year a tight defense has won the league.

but for the season chelsea have lost less games than arsenal last year,

l league game (so far) two CL games and one fa cup game..

got to a final (league cup) 1/4 final (fa cup) and semi final (CL)

thats pretty impressive...

but i'd rather watch United or the Gooners on the footballing side of things...

 

[Milanista]

Well, Chelsea lost 4 CL games - Barca, Bayern, Liverpool and Porto, which is worse than Arsenal as they only lost once this season (Bayern).

 

[RuneEdge]

Obviously being unbeaten is a great thing but IMO, if the Chelsea of this season played last year, you wouldnt have won the title.
Even though you went the whole season without a loss, there were loads of times where you scraped a win or a draw. I mean, If Ruud had scored that penalty at the start of the season, it would have been all over before it started. Even as the season progressed, I kept thinking every week "this must be the match where they finally lose".
But Chelsea on the other hand have been far more confident and never look like they're gonna lose even in games where they did lose.

 

[Vannizzlefashizzal]

Well, Chelsea lost 4 CL games - Barca, Bayern, Liverpool and Porto, which is worse than Arsenal as they only lost once this season (Bayern).

I stand corrected, forgot about bayern and barca...

either way both teams have done well...

but thinking about out of the two, arsenal just edge it for me for remaining unbeaten in the league and the style of football they played..

 

[gerd]

Come on mate, we were unbeaten in the league, they weren't.

Its widely accepted that Chelsea play "effective football" whilst last season were played attractive attacking football.

And you still think Chelsea's season is better?

Arsenal play very attractive football that is a fact.
But i will really be impressed if they would be able to have a good season in Europe.
That said i think that both Arsenal and Man Utd are past there prime and that if they don't change radical (Arsenal buy other and younger players, Man Utd sack Ferguson) in three or four season Chelsea and Liverpool will be the pricipal contenders in the Premiership. The coming season could be very interesting because there i see the four mentioned clubs as contenders...

 

[fd1972uk]

Yep, I can see where Vann is coming from as he hasn't witnessed it, it's a bit like that annoying thing about Cantona being voted the greatest ever Utd player ever, it makes so many older people who saw this guy laugh even more. Although I loved Cantona's style he isn't fit enough to lace the boots of Best who totally eclipsed him with ability and the many places home and abroad that he graced, whilst Cantona was a nonity in Europe and Internationls (albeit there was a problem there).


FD

 

[RuneEdge]

IMO, Effective football comes first. Then stylish football.

 

[Joystick]

IMO, Effective football comes first. Then stylish football.

Thats fair enough, you cant reasonably argue with that.

I guess this whole thread is a bit reliant on one's perception of 'impressive'. If pure, effective football regardless of status and environment is what one considers more impressive then Chels have been better.

Others might thinks that when you take into account additional factors like Arsenal's finacial disparity, then Arsenal's season could be seen as more impressive. A matter of taste really.

BTW I actually voted for Man Yoo '99 :mrgreen:

 

[gerd]

IMO, Effective football comes first. Then stylish football.

Consequence: the 1967 Celtic team is the best British team ever in one season, just look at the results!!!!
I'm pretty sure you voted Man Utd...now convince me that Celtic isn't the best team ever in one season bearing in mind your statement about effectiveness...

 

[RuneEdge]

Consequence: the 1967 Celtic team is the best British team ever in one season, just look at the results!!!!
I'm pretty sure you voted Man Utd...now convince me that Celtic isn't the best team ever in one season bearing in mind your statement about effectiveness...

The thing is we dont know what Celtic were up against. Man Utd went through some tough teams to win the CL and IMO, were stylish AND effective. They scored tons of goals during that season, let in only a few and they only lost 4 games in the whole season.
You're saying that Celtic won 4 trophies but how did they do it? Did they beat good teams or crap teams?
Effective football is even you use negative tactics but still get the win against teams. That doesnt mean having to get through a series of crap teams. Thats just luck.

 

[gerd]

Come one man, when Celtic won the ECI all the teams participating were champions (in 1999
Man Utd weren't even champions themselves if i'm not mistaken). Don't you think there were good teams in 1967.
Celtic played that final against Inter Milan who scored the first goal. Now that Inter Milan team under Helenio Herrera was known for his catennacio: very defensive play. It was without doubt the best team Inter ever had. Inter scored the first goal, penalty by Mazzola.So that early lead was ideal for the Italians.
Nevertheless the Lisbon Lions won it by 2-1. The winner by Jinky Johnstone was their 200th goal in 64 matches that season...a fantastic average if you ask me.
You simply won't admit that that team could have been better than the mighty Man Utd...

 

[ClassicD]

Celtic won FIVE trophies that season, already mentioned they won the Fairs Cup in addition to the other 4. The teams they faced on the way are hardly big names in the current day, but you have to remember every team they faced were the champion of their domestic league.

Zurich (Switzerland)
Nantes (France)
Vojvodina Novi Sad (Yugoslavia)
Dukla Prague (Czechoslovakia)

They beat Inter in the final, an Inter team who were making their third appearance in the final in four years.

As has already been explained, Scottish football was far better then, Rangers were themselves in a European final around that time and other teams reached the latter stages of competitions.

btw Gerd think it was Stevie Chalmers who got the winner.

 

[RuneEdge]

I'm not comparing it to Man Utd's season. I'm just saying that without having seen that season, you cant convince me that Celtic were that good.
But I have MUTV where they show classic games including the ones from the 99 season and some of Man Utd's football was brilliant.

 

[Vannizzlefashizzal]

Consequence: the 1967 Celtic team is the best British team ever in one season, just look at the results!!!!
I'm pretty sure you voted Man Utd...now convince me that Celtic isn't the best team ever in one season bearing in mind your statement about effectiveness...

why, can you convince us that that celtic team played and stayed unbeaten against teams with the same quality as:

arsenal, liverpool, newcastle, chelsea, bayern munich, barcelona, juventus and inter milan...

your only as good as your competition, obviously Celtic being the 1st british team to win The European Cup is a great achievment but the other three trophies are pretty much theirs every season anyway...

 

[pk9]

"Manchester United in 1999 were the best team I've seen in the Premiership. They had Beckham, Scholes, Giggs and Keane in their prime."

quoted from skysports and these are wenger's exact words so u see pretty football must be accompanied by committed and successful players

 

[ClassicD]

but the other three trophies are pretty much theirs every season anyway...

There it is, it had to come out eventually. :roll:

Have you not been reading? The competition in Scotland wasn't like it was now, Scottish teams, not just Celtic and Rangers, regularly reached the latter stages of European competition, yet it appears you're tarring that era with the brush of today's situation (which btw I remind you, might not be as high quality but is far more competitive than your EPL is, league still not won up here with 2 games left).

 

[fd1972uk]

http://http://www.scottishleague.net/

Might be best for you young lot and others who don't know much about football, to read here and scroll through the teams, if like me you like music from the 60s, maybe even check around that time for a few of the teams to see how they fared back then.


FD

 

[gerd]

I'm afraid "they" are biased too much my Scottish friends...Scottish football has always been underrated for them, no matter how good Scottish team have once been. And don't forget that "they" are principally Man Utd fans and that the Lisbon Lions denied Man Utd the honour of being the first Brittish club to win EC1....
Well if we would be as biased as "they" are we could say the same thing about the truly great George Best (billion times better than any player of the current United team): you're only as good as your opponents let you be...
People just can't believe that there were great players and teams 30 or 40 years ago...Lets just stop this discussion and hope wisdom comes with age. To continue is pointless.

PS: like the second part of your signature Classic...i wasn't really serious about that result...would be something if it came true...

 

[Vannizzlefashizzal]

I'm afraid "they" are biased too much my Scottish friends...Scottish football has always been underrated for them, no matter how good Scottish team have once been. And don't forget that "they" are principally Man Utd fans and that the Lisbon Lions denied Man Utd the honour of being the first Brittish club to win EC1....
Well if we would be as biased as "they" are we could say the same thing about the truly great George Best (billion times better than any player of the current United team): you're only as good as your opponents let you be...
People just can't believe that there were great players and teams 30 or 40 years ago...Lets just stop this discussion and hope wisdom comes with age. To continue is pointless.

feck me, its got nothing to do with the fact its scottish football, shit you people have an inferioty complex re our uncivilised friends from the north.

In 30 40 years when people are talking about todays football, they wont think Uniteds achievement as great as we do now, it happens, I thought some one of your "maturity" would have a grasp on that.

Of course people are aware of great players from other era's but in todays climate with the abundance of footage available we could post hundreds of clips to prove why todays teams are great and all we would have from 30 40 years ago is word of mouth, which is hardly conclusive because every generation romanticizes there own paticualr era.

Things from the past have to be judged on their own merit, especially football, IMO things have changed so much, and I take that on my own team, the 1st United team to win the European Cup cannot be compared to the last one.

IMHO....

 

[fd1972uk]

Vann, I feel I'm a civilised person btw.

And another thing, TV's where invented back then too, funnily enough a guy called John Logie Baird thought it up, even funnier enough an uncivilised person like you mention too from up North.


FD

 

[ClassicD]

obviously Celtic being the 1st british team to win The European Cup is a great achievment but the other three trophies are pretty much theirs every season anyway...

That's not an inferiority complex that's just you trying to say Scottish football was as crap then as it is now, which is bullshit.

 

[gerd]

By the way Vann i'm not Scottish i'm Belgian...
When i mentioned "they" i was not thinking about you in the first place...
But it is a fact that "quite a few" English people on this forum are seriouslyu overestimating English football...take that from an outsider who is a big fan of English football.
And i should never have started this thread, it started half as a joke, half serious...i could have foreseen this reaction...i guess i shoud apologize towards our two Scottish friends because some of the reactions in this thread show prejudices wich are quite similar to the prejudices that led some Spanish idiots to the reactions towards the black English players in the recent Spain-England.
Before the fuss starts: i've never said that they are racists...i'm just talking about prejudices.

 

[ClassicD]

Can open, worms - everywhere! :mrgreen:

 

[RuneEdge]

All I'm gonna say is that maybe if I had seen Celtic's "great" season, maybe I'd be able to judge it better. But the fact that no one knew about it(I mean no one has to do research to know how great 99 was for Man Utd), and not many have seen it and because we dont really know what sort of competition they were up against, No one can convince me that Celtic were that good.
Dont go bringing up that in those days, only the champions played in the CL cuz we beat Fenerbahce 6-2 and they were Turkish champions so that kinda throws that arguement out of the window.

I may be wrong but unless you prove it to me, you can convince anyone here that Celtic have achieved greatness. I'm not having a go at Scottish Football cuz I would say the same thing to any other team from a european country.

 

[Stan]

I may be wrong but unless you prove it to me, you can convince anyone here that Celtic have achieved greatness. I'm not having a go at Scottish Football cuz I would say the same thing to any other team from a european country.

Man Utd only won one EC1 or CL more than Celtic and much less championships...so if Celtic haven't achieved greatness then by applying the same standards you will agree with me that Man Utd haven't either...

But you guys still don't get it this is not about clubs...it's about teams...that particular Celtic simply was one of the best ever.
I'm fairly sure that your holy cow Ferguson would agree with me, in which case you would be convinced.

Don't know why i bother...mods please close this thread (exasperated).

 

[RuneEdge]

All I'm saying that if that Celtic team were that good, people would have known about it. The fact that no one knew about it proves to me that the team wasnt as good as people here are making them out to be.
But as I said earlier, I may be wrong but until I see it myself, I'm not going to agree with the story.
On the other hand, loads of people know about Man Utd's success in 1999 and when I watch good games and compare them to todays football, you can clearly see that the 99 team was a lot better than most teams of today. The only difference between the Celtic team and the Man Utd team is that (in terms of the amounts of trophies) Man Utd didnt win the League Cup which to be honest no one cares about.

 

[Milanista]

You can say that about the Real Madrid of Di Stefano that won how many...3, 4 CL cups in 5 years? The Milan of Cesare Maldini in the 50's that won the CL?

I think its more related to the fact that it wasnt your generation.

 

[Stan]

Man Utd didnt win the League Cup which to be honest no one cares about.

That's very, very relative..Look how glad Middlesborough were when they won it. And Chelsea looked pretty happy to win it this year aswell
There was a time Man Utd did not care about the FA Cup too (the season after the treble they choose to particpate in an artificial Wc for teams instead of the Fa-Cup...one of the reasons why i quit supporting them by the way...justice was done because they were ridiculised in Brazil). I think this year Man Utd would be very, very disappointed if they would loose that Cup Final.

And again, you refuse to see the point. The league cup maybe not that important, but as one of the four (or in Celtic's case five) trophees to be won it is very important...it is a part of a sort of Grand Slam.
The fact that a team wins the League Cup may not be that big an achievement (and i'm not quite sure about that...and by the way you guys could be very happy in 10 years when you would win it after Glazier has finished with you) but the fact that they also win it among all the others...that shows remarkable consistency (as you guys well know since you are rigthfully so proud of that treble in 1999).

I still am very fond of Man United but i hope that Glazier guy will not be learning you a lesson in modesty the hard way, because some of "the fans" certainly need one. I supported Man Utd even when they were relegated...i stopped being a fan when the club became an industry without respect for tradition. The Glazier thing is a logical consequence of that behaviour. I have seen this one coming years ago...you can love a club, but a litle bit of objectivity may help...most of you guys have a blind adoration for their favourite club (and then i'm only speaking of the true fans but not about the hunderds of glory hunters who will support Chelsea or Liverpool in the years to come).

Oh and by the way i hope Man United survive this Glazier storm...the institute Man Utd should be far bigger than the corporation Man Utd Ltd.
This is partly an answer to what you said in the Man Utd thread...