The adaptive offline Copa América 2015 challenge

James Beaver · 16 June 2015

Lami,

I often lose my cool, but I was surprised to see that it happens to you too. Your style looks so controlled. (And your CHI-MEX didn't really look out of control to me.)

On the other hand, getting mad can teach you something important. When you get really pi**ed, you may be forced to adapt.

I don't get mad if I lose a match. I get mad if I don't create chances and let the other side create too many good ones. End result is not guaranteed. Football is a game of small margins.

Regarding the mindset of "needing to score goals quickly." That's a bad attitude for a defender, but exactly the spirit I am trying to create when controlling an attacker.

Lami · 16 June 2015

True that mate. I just felt so hard done by. Next time if that happens I'll either not play til I'm cool again or try and forget what happened, which is difficult

Now, on to my next 2 games.

Well. I was surprised. I think that one shot I had when 1 on 1 sums it up for this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr1O3IAF_0E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSaOerg5d3U

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

All I can say is...

Totally different approach to this game when close to goal, and it worked for me. Actually, more than worked, lol. But being Argentina helped a ton, of course.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcTVwsEJjZw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Eu8oBbsUyE

James Beaver · 16 June 2015

My last two matches of the group stage. Conclusions from this stage in the second spoiler.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaBe78C5uTg

,----
| MATCH: COL-PER
| DIFFICULTY LEVEL: SS
| MY TEAM: COL
| RESULT: win 2-1
| NEXT DIFFICULTY LEVEL: SW
`----

Without a doubt my best superstar match up to this point ever: I was in control almost the entire match. Well, the CPU did score first: I was completely in sleep when that cross came in. And I still can't use the radar comfortably.

After that - solid play by Colombia. In addition to the two goals we had for example James Rodriguez hitting the post.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJnaFpco7sk

,----
| MATCH: BRA-VEN
| DIFFICULTY LEVEL: SW
| MY TEAM: VEN
| RESULT: draw 0-0
| NEXT DIFFICULTY LEVEL: SW
`----

For me the group stage ends about as well as it possibly could. You have no idea how long I have been trying to learn to defend properly in this game, and now it finally looks like I have achieved the next level.

It happened last night after my 2-1 loss to Argentina. In that match Argentina had 17 shots (as did Jamaica, but that is another story). So when I should have gone to sleep, I started practicing defending instead.

I combined what I knew before this challenge with what I have learned here - in particular watching Lami play. And lo and behold: after a bit of practice practice things clicked, and I got the feeling that I am in control of what is happening even when defending against superstar.

Today I approached these two last matches with great interest. And while I still undoubtedly have things to learn - fortunately - I had my two best defensive matches against superstar ever. This last one against Brazil is naturally the jewel. In the last clip you can see the only dangerous chance Brazil had in the entire match. And that last chance was caused by me resorting to my old habits, trying to slide tackle aggressively when I should have just contained.

So one happy camper here. Already eagerly waiting for next Monday and the playoff stage.

(Also, I already have an idea for another challenge after this one ends.)

*aLe · 16 June 2015

Wow, a draw against Brazil at Superstar level. Chapeau.
And nice play by Armero for the equalizer against Peru, he had the defense split open all by himself.

What I don't really like is players often kicking with the outside foot in those occasions but it's not your fault obviously. It just doesn't happen that much in real football.

@Lami: yeah, being Argentina or Brazil pretty much wins you matches by itself.

majuh · 16 June 2015

I think higher difficulty levels only increase the chances of the AI starting to cheat; every once in a while you still get to play one of these easy matches even against Top Player or Superstar.

*aLe · 16 June 2015

Well done!
Am I the only one who cannot win a match on Superstar to save his life?

Lami · 17 June 2015

Lol. I haven't managed to even reach superstar yet. I keep bouncing back and forth between TS and TW :LOL:

Lami · 17 June 2015

James Beaver said:
My last two matches of the group stage. Conclusions from this stage in the second spoiler.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaBe78C5uTg

,----
| MATCH: COL-PER
| DIFFICULTY LEVEL: SS
| MY TEAM: COL
| RESULT: win 2-1
| NEXT DIFFICULTY LEVEL: SW
`----

Without a doubt my best superstar match up to this point ever: I was in control almost the entire match. Well, the CPU did score first: I was completely in sleep when that cross came in. And I still can't use the radar comfortably.

After that - solid play by Colombia. In addition to the two goals we had for example James Rodriguez hitting the post.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJnaFpco7sk

,----
| MATCH: BRA-VEN
| DIFFICULTY LEVEL: SW
| MY TEAM: VEN
| RESULT: draw 0-0
| NEXT DIFFICULTY LEVEL: SW
`----

For me the group stage ends about as well as it possibly could. You have no idea how long I have been trying to learn to defend properly in this game, and now it finally looks like I have achieved the next level.

It happened last night after my 2-1 loss to Argentina. In that match Argentina had 17 shots (as did Jamaica, but that is another story). So when I should have gone to sleep, I started practicing defending instead. I combined what I knew before this challenge with what I have learned here - in particular watching Lami play. And lo and behold: after a bit of practice practice things clicked, and I got the feeling that I am in control of what is happening even when defending against superstar.

Today I approached these two last matches with great interest. And while I still undoubtedly have things to learn - fortunately - I had my two best defensive matches against superstar ever. This last one against Brazil is naturally the jewel. In the last clip you can see the only dangerous chance Brazil had in the entire match. And that last chance was caused by me resorting to my old habits, trying to slide tackle aggressively when I should have just contained.

So one happy camper here. Already eagerly waiting for next Monday and the playoff stage.

(Also, I already have an idea for another challenge after this one ends.)

Mate, congrats. And thanks for even mentioning me, and I'm not even that good lol. I haven't even reached Superstar fgs. You really seem like you did well in your Venezuela v Brazil game. I'd loved to have watched the entire game but can't pressure you. Lovely colombia goals too

And yes, I definitely can't wait for the next challenge! This made me wonder why Konami can't do this. Have an offline challenge mode where they add a new one every month or so. It certainly keeps the game alive. It did for me! Something new every month instead of the same old leagues and cups.

Lami · 17 June 2015

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WCw9qooDOI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBYIwhZhKuc

And I will FINALLY play on superstar level next...

James Beaver · 17 June 2015

Lami said:
You really seem like you did well in your Venezuela v Brazil game. I'd loved to have watched the entire game but can't pressure you.

I would happily upload the entire match, but I only recorded those two one-minute clips.

While there has certainly been significant improvement in my defending, this challenge can give a false impression of ones skills. Assuming that you are playing with "player emotions" off. I just lost two matches straight in La Liga, away against weaker opponents (superstar). The match with Venezuela against Brazil was child's play compared to these Spanish matches. The Spanish matches were good, but "player emotions" provides such a huge boost to the home team that there are some comical side effects. Every opposition CB outran my fastest attacker. When you make a manual pass, you need to have around 7m of space around your receiving midfielder, because otherwise an opposition player will appear out of nowhere to intercept. It doesn't help if I am anticipating the pass, because my receiver is stuck in glue while the pass tries to make his way to him.

("Player emotions" cuts both ways: you get a corresponding boost in home matches. Some time ago I beat Barcelona with Sevilla at home, at superstar level.)

I have sent a suggestion to Konami to add a "player emotions" option to leagues as well.

Anyway, I digress. Keep those match reports coming in! Some great matches in the real Copa as well.

*aLe · 17 June 2015

James Beaver said:
Anyway, I digress. Keep those match reports coming in! Some great matches in the real Copa as well.

You're right. They get broadcasted at impossible timings here in Italy (why is Chile so distant from here? :RANT:

) but I got to see some of them live on Gazzetta TV (yeah, now La Gazzetta dello Sport also has its own TV channel).
I feel sorry for Jamaica (what a blooper last night :SHOCK:

) but I feel so happy for Bolivia... And even a little proud! :GSCARF:

Yeah, this challenge had me appreciate Bolivia very much and this is wonderful, as I would have never played with them otherwise.

GO MARCELO GO!!! :GSCARF:

Lami · 17 June 2015

Yea I play with emotions off.

James Beaver · 17 June 2015

Lami said:
Yea I play with emotions off.

That gave me an idea. In matches involving Chile, make it home team and turn player emotions on. Or?

majuh · 17 June 2015

I got a bit lucky with these matches:

Lami · 18 June 2015

James Beaver said:
That gave me an idea. In matches involving Chile, make it home team and turn player emotions on. Or?

I really didn't like the emotions concept. I'd rather give them reds and keep me on green.

Lami · 18 June 2015

majuh said:
I got a bit lucky with these matches:

,----
| MATCH: PAR-JAM
| DIFFICULTY LEVEL: SW
| MY TEAM: JAM
| RESULT: 0-1
| NEXT DIFFICULTY LEVEL: SW
`----

,----
| MATCH: ARG-URU
| DIFFICULTY LEVEL: SW
| MY TEAM: URU
| RESULT: 1-2
| NEXT DIFFICULTY LEVEL: SW
`----

Wow. Great job there!

James Beaver · 18 June 2015

majuh,

impressive results and stats! Any chance of showing us some equally impressive videos?

Check: are you playing assisted? If you are, then in order for this to be a CHALLENGE for everyone, after winning at level SW, the suggestion is that you should play the next match at SW unassisted.

James Beaver · 18 June 2015

Lami said:
I really didn't like the emotions concept. I'd rather give them reds and keep me on green.

Ok. And also give them reds if you are playing as Chile? I think that would be appropriate.

James Beaver · 18 June 2015

*aLe said:
You're right. They get broadcasted at impossible timings here in Italy (why is Chile so distant from here? ) but I got to see some of them live on Gazzetta TV (yeah, now La Gazzetta dello Sport also has its own TV channel).

Here is a good source for full recordings of all matches. You only need to watch 15 s of advertisements every 5 min.

http://www.fullmatchesandshows.com/category/copa-america/

Lami · 18 June 2015

James Beaver said:
Ok. And also give them reds if you are playing as Chile? I think that would be appropriate.

Yep. I did that and lost!

Man I suck. Actually I hate superstar. It's too much for me. It's like a very fine line of fun between top player and superstar.

If another challenge is on the way, is there any chance we stay away from superstar? Even if we resort to voting! Or you guys can continue playing superstar and get more points and I stick to Top Player and don't mind the lesser points. I'm just enjoying the challenge and tbh superstar defeats that purpose for me, since all fun is thrown out the window for me.

James Beaver · 18 June 2015

Lami said:
If another challenge is on the way, is there any chance we stay away from superstar?

The point of this challenge was to share with the community something that I enjoy. You are free to modify the parameters if this doesn't give you the enjoyment. I can even include a mechanism for something like that in the next challenge if need be.

However... You could see this part coming, right?

I am in the "no pain, no gain" -group of people. At least I need to take hits to develop. I suffer, hit my head against the wall a couple of times - in some cases many, many times - and then start analysing the situation.

One thing that has benefited me is the post mortem analysis of my own gameplay. The videos are perfect for that. But I am not analytic or creative enough to figure out all the solutions. I am really enjoying watching your videos to see how things can be done differently. Because in this game they certainly can, and it's one of the things that makes PES so great.

Or, if I take a completely different perspective, this challenge will expose you to the "entire range of emotions associated with competitive sports." Some real pros absolutely hate losing.

Edit. One thing that I always change against superstar: I don't play with the default formation. I always have a lower defensive line, and number of players defending set to "many."

Lami · 18 June 2015

I know what you mean James. I really do. Except that I've tried superstar a few times before and it was the same experience for me. It's not the losing that gets to me, it's the CPU AI. They become superhuman, well to me at least. I love a challenge, but I also love it to be fun, not stressful

majuh · 18 June 2015

James Beaver said:
majuh,

impressive results and stats! Any chance of showing us some equally impressive videos?

Check: are you playing assisted? If you are, then in order for this to be a CHALLENGE for everyone, after winning at level SW, the suggestion is that you should play the next match at SW unassisted.

Right now I don't have time for video editing and uploading, but I guess I can produce one or two videos in the KO stage.

I'm playing with old school settings (2 bars passing and basic shooting), but I'd like to keep it that way because manual settings don't really add to the gameplay in my opinion.

Even though match 11 was a walk in the park:

James Beaver · 19 June 2015

majuh said:
Right now I don't have time for video editing and uploading, but I guess I can produce one or two videos in the KO stage.

No pressure, we just like to watch them.

I'm playing with old school settings (2 bars passing and basic shooting), but I'd like to keep it that way because manual settings don't really add to the gameplay in my opinion.

Feel free to do so if you still feel challenged enough.

Lami · 19 June 2015

,----
| MATCH: Mexico vs Ecuador
| DIFFICULTY LEVEL: SW
| MY TEAM: Ecuador
| RESULT: 2-1
| NEXT DIFFICULTY LEVEL: SS
`----

Sorry I stuffed up the recording in this game. Double pressed the share button at the end of the half instead of pressing it once and the whole half was gone

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

,----
| MATCH: Chile vs Bolivia
| DIFFICULTY LEVEL: SS
| MY TEAM: Chile
| RESULT: 2-3
| NEXT DIFFICULTY LEVEL: TW
`----

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh6M4yK86w8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hlocP8uaDI

I played with a red arrow'd Chile yet still lost, lol.

majuh · 19 June 2015

It was about time for the match to come in which the scripting goes overboard:

majuh · 20 June 2015

And back to SW:

majuh · 21 June 2015

I was a bit unlucky today, hit the post two times in match 15 and my Reggae Boyz missed huge scoring opportunities in match 16:

Lami · 22 June 2015

I've no idea how you manage to get the CPU to have low pass % on superstar. The moment I play on superstar the CPU pass % for me is almost always high 80s and low 90s.

James Beaver · 22 June 2015

Lami said:
I've no idea how you manage to get the CPU to have low pass % on superstar. The moment I play on superstar the CPU pass % for me is almost always high 80s and low 90s.

Noticed the same thing. Implies very good skills in reading the passing lanes.

The match schedule in the opening post has been updated with the matches in the first knockout stage.

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