Tactical tips and discussion. FORMATION QUESTIONS HERE!

BK_83 said:
does ur 41212 look like this
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Nope mate, that's a bit standard :). It's a bit different than that, the side defenders a bit ahead, the DM a bit behind. The right mid is a bit more open in the wing, the central ofensive midflielder is inside the circle so a bit behind that position and the left mid is quite in the same spot as there. In the front the left striker is a bit behind, in the limits between being a forward or a mid. Then there's the arrows but I have to check them i don't remember quite well (but they make all the difference).
 
this is by far my fav. thread to read. thanks for all the info guys. i'm still a beginner so when i get better i'll contirbute. you guys kick @ss!
 
further report:.. been doing a 5 star second league season with milan and everything is going better (finished third last season), topping the league although not able to deliver the kind of scores inter and juve reach in CPU in 5 stars.. their goal average is awsome (although they suffer 2,3 times more goals than me). The tactic really seems to deliver for me.. I'm trying to improve my skills near the box at this point, trying to overcome an ancient problem of mine: wasting chances.

I'm finding out that I'm too complicated in directing shoots... It looks like not applying any directin at all at my shots or a simple arrow decision makes me score more goals lol.
 
BK_83 said:
im still trying to find a formation that lets u play total football... :)
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I think I can provide you with the answer.

I wrote this in the other thread, but thought it might help you out:


Here's my formation and I have never had trouble beating any particular teams:

-------------CB----------Sweeper------------------------------
----------------------------------------------LB--------------
----WB---------DM---------------------------------------------
--------------------------CM----------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------
------RW-----------------------------------LW-----------------
---------------CF----------ST---------------------------------


I then set Pressing to max, Backline-moveup to max, Counterattack to least, and offside trap to medium. I could easily concede goals when the CPU counterattacks, but chances are most of the time I have possession, it's very much like the Dutch system in the 70's.

My LW I use Rooney and get him to push inside, so he can shoot with his right foot. I use Neeskens for my CM, he can join in the attack really well and score some goals from just outside the box.

For sweeper, I use Baresi, he comes forward really often and scores some goals as well.

The reason I think this formation works so well is because I am not leaving the central midfield area empty for the CPU to exploit, either my DM is there or my sweeper would come forward to clean up the mess. In fact, a lot of times even my ST drops back to help. My wingers, especially my left winger, in addition provide the width I need to exploit the opposition.

Lastly, I would make sure you have a big man for CF (someone like Van Nistelrooy or van Basten or Bastistuta, etc) and a fast man for ST (someone like Eusebio or Henry).
 
BK_83 said:
actually pes is not adopting the greece factor... just that it is more realistic and in realistic football, u can just have attacking players... u need to pass around like real life, and not just passing straight forward all the time, this is not gonna work, if u find too many defender while attacking, well u can change sides, pass back to defender to open up their players.

im playing on 6 stars and sometimes i also score 4-5 goals(10mins) and im playing 433 formation.
i tink for we9/pes5, midfield is more impt coz thats where most of the things happen. in we8/pes4. its just unrealistic the way u can score and the amt.
Moral of the story is: play WE/PES like you would in real life, the arcade style dont work anymore
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Honestly I don't see why so many people complain about a lack of goals in this game. I have beaten the CPU 10-2 in a league match at 6 star and I have beaten the CPU something like 5-0 at least a good 10 times in 7 seasons in the ML.

You really need a pacey striker to do this though, someone like Eusebio would do.
 
Teacher said:
I fully agree with you on the 'greece' factor, Mauras! And I respect your point of view on how football is to be seen. But I play with 5 to 6 very skilled mates, that go back a long time when it comes to console gaming (coleco vision, atari 2600 etc.). The differences are little and the games are always close with attacks going back and forth from left to right. Absolutely no 'greece' there! With all due respect for their euro 2004 result. Being Dutch, you'll maybe know that we the Dutch only like attacking football!
That's why i'm very interested in your 451 tactic, so that I can further develop my 451 tactic according to my offensive standards. I've tweaked it to a point when it has become some sort of 433, because the lmf and rmf have low defence arrows and forward attacking arrows: they almost act like wingers.
What you've said about the game becoming unrealistic with radarplaying is true. IMHO I believe that PES/WE will always be a game. Nothing more, nothing less. It's bound to be unrealistic. But Konami have managed to create an atmosphere of sheer realism that we all love here! Isn't that true?
I agree that fun and gameplay must be the only reason to play the game. Believe me, I'm having a lot of fun when I beat them this way. Especially when I want to win some of our own tournaments, I'll probably want to produce 'results'. You have to agree with me, that in real football (I play soccer myself) 3-4-3 is madness and naive! Look at AC Milan or Man Utd, big clubs, great players: steady, careful tactics! All based on: not wanting to lose.

But, enough of this right now!
Can you, Mauras, give me a little insight on your offensive 451 tactic?
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Absolutly spot on. You are totally right. This time around PES does feel like real football. I play the game with enthusiasm and my friends seem unable to keep up, because i use each team´s formation to its best, rather than havimg a preset, "comfortable" one, like them. You and Mauras(fellow compatriot), really do "feel" the game, and i think that´s something not all can do.4-5-1, 4-4-2,4-3-3 are great, especially with those teams that can use them better, but your(dutch)3-4-3 is special, and i recommend it over the others.Use it with a C defense line, A for pressure, all medium defense arrows, no attacking arrows whatsoever, except for the only DMF whom i give two diagonal backwards.Counter attacking can be set A,B or C depending on how fast you want to go forward, and with whom you´re going forward. I just love having the ball in this game!Score when i want the way i want.Except from headers. They don´t come easily. Cheers
 
To Me!TheRaven, setting C for defence line and no attacking arrows, wouldn't that leave your team sitting back a lot and they don't make much runs?

But does it lead to possession football? The only complain about my own formation that I explained above is that I rely on pace too much, but if I could somehow play possession football without having to make individual runs too much, that would be more realistic and fun.
 
Yes, Ricola, i know what you mean. Sometimes we just want that Rooney guy or Ronaldo to speed things up and resolve things, but you must understand that playing against the cpu is not the same as playing a human opponent. As i tried to say, against my friends i play with each teams preset formation, and that´s when i really love the game. Versus the cpu, in the Master League, yes, i use a formation based on those principles i stated before and rely on possession much more, "waiting patiently" for my one-twos up front, sideline combinations, holding up the ball with the striker and winning free-kicks; and most of all not letting the opposition counter attack dangerously, by pressing imediatly after losing possession and having those 3 strong and fast defenders playing deep... It really works very well.Key positions are the DMF and two CMF who will have most of the ball in the offensive phase, waiting for the runs upfront, and a good passer as SWEEPER to play it around in defence, inviting the opposition to pressure and hopefully open gaps in their midfield or sides... Of course, the better the players on your side, the better it`ll work. Against big teams, use counter-attack in the first half. It works wonders.
 
A based 3-4-3 is used by a great dutch coach, Hiddink, and last year, PSV "rocked" against Milan in the two champions league semifinal games. I saw the two games. Hated Milan for their tipical,cynical game; despaired with the wasted chances by Psv, and the lack of luck in the second game, at the Phillips Stadium. Loved Korea in 2002 also. Of course, nowadays no one can really play attacking football just for the fun of it. Winning is everything, and "conservative" counter attacking 4-3-3´s, or midfield packing 4-4-2´s, are the best choices.3-4-3! One of the best teams of the last twenty years used it often. Raymond Goethals Marseille of the early nineties.Superb defending, lethal attacking. Those were the days...
 
if u wanna score more goals, try 3 strikers, coz once u take the lead, CPU WILL change their formation to 3 at the back, once this is done... counter attack them and im sure u'll score 1-2 more, sometimes my wingers are totally unmarked when i counter attack, and from my penalty box, i send a thru pass to tat winger.

im trying out 4-5-1 lately with 2cmf, 2SMF, 1AMF. It looks like a diamond formation... i concede far less goals with this formation but my goals are cut short too.... however i still prefer my fav 4-3-3.
 
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Since this is the Official tactical Discussion thread, i'm not gonna make a new one for this:


How can you tell your Central Defender / one of your central Defenders to come up into the opposite box on corner kicks and cross-ball-situation free kicks ? When i play with Milan, Stam always seems to do it. But if i want to tell Van Buyten or Kompany in my ML or Lucio for Bayern to do that, no matter what i try, it doesn't work.
Your obvious choice would be the attacking arrow forward. But i find them running round far too offensive if i do that and they still don't move up on corners. Anybody knows how to do it ?

Thanks.
 
PaoloRink said:
Since this is the Official tactical Discussion thread, i'm not gonna make a new one for this:


How can you tell your Central Defender / one of your central Defenders to come up into the opposite box on corner kicks and cross-ball-situation free kicks ? When i play with Milan, Stam always seems to do it. But if i want to tell Van Buyten or Kompany in my ML or Lucio for Bayern to do that, no matter what i try, it doesn't work.
Your obvious choice would be the attacking arrow forward. But i find them running round far too offensive if i do that and they still don't move up on corners. Anybody knows how to do it ?

Thanks.
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One way, is to set an alternate formation, and switch you CB's upfield. Assign this formation to a strategy button. During set plays you can toggle this formation on and you'd get all the big guys up there. Just remember to switch back after that.

Another is to use, the off/def attitude manually. This brings up more players into the box. Although I think you can't really control which specific player moves up.

I'm currently using Chelsea and there doesn't seem to be a problem as Terry's always up there for corners. I dunno if the games assigns players to come up for corners based on their aerial abilities? It could be.

Problem I have is somewhat different. During CK if find my CF's tend to peel off, one to near post and one to far post during corners. Usually these are tracked by opposition DF's very well. That usually ends up with my AMF's (with lesser heading skills) connecting with corners.

Also in PES5/WE9 i've yet to steal infront and tuck in corner to the near post as I did very often in WE8:LE and prev versions.

Cheers

Cheers
 
BK_83 said:
if u wanna score more goals, try 3 strikers, coz once u take the lead, CPU WILL change their formation to 3 at the back, once this is done... counter attack them and im sure u'll score 1-2 more, sometimes my wingers are totally unmarked when i counter attack, and from my penalty box, i send a thru pass to tat winger.

im trying out 4-5-1 lately with 2cmf, 2SMF, 1AMF. It looks like a diamond formation... i concede far less goals with this formation but my goals are cut short too.... however i still prefer my fav 4-3-3.
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Maybe its just the way I play or what, but I find playing with lone striker doesn't cut it for me. I usually need a 2nd man to play off.

I actually want to smother the midfield, and force the opponent to play long balls to get out of defence. Somehow I can't seem to get that effect yet.

Right now also experimenting with 433 again. Only instead of WF role I'm using 1 CF with 2 SS, placed wide with arrows cutting in. MF in a V w/o arrows. RSB/LSB positioned slightly ahead of CB's also without arrows.
 
Thanks mate,

I'm going with the manual way since i like to control it when they come up and when they don't. Ex: when i'm up 2-0 in minute 78 and i got a corner i'd rather have my defenders in the back.

As for smothering the midfield, a 3-5-2 actually works fine for me. I have two attacking midfielders and two SMFs. It might sound odd, but it's actually a quite defensive fomration because it leaves the opponent with absolutely no room to play football when he gains the ball.
So he's forced to play the long ball, which leaves my defenders to kill these with the head.
It's very vulnerable when he intercepts a pass in my own half though.... working on it ;-).

I have another question if you don't mind. What does the individual defensive setting "covering" mean and how does it look on the field ?
 
PaoloRink said:
I have another question if you don't mind. What does the individual defensive setting "covering" mean and how does it look on the field ?
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I can't say for sure, but I believe it means shadowing?

Where manmarking is obvious, and zonal marking means you mark the opposition players in your zone, covering means you are shadowing the player with the ball?

I get my defensive midfielder to do that, afterall he's my VACUUM CLEANER.
 
covering means the player will cover gaps in ur defense but he is less likely to pressure the opponent, more suitable for dmf
 
BK_83 said:
covering means the player will cover gaps in ur defense but he is less likely to pressure the opponent, more suitable for dmf
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BK's right. However I don't use it since I haven't figured out how to implement it properly. When using it my covering players tends to stray too much out of position to cover gaps.

I find they get stuck in no mans land too much.

E.g CB with covering. RB goes up to close play gets beaten. CB' covers and closes. RB should righly fall back to CB's position. It's not something that can be assigned to individualplayers. It's more of a collective effort IMO.

I prefer to manually control players to implement covering, at least for now. So far it works for me, as only concede about 7-10 gaols per ML season. Actually the trick is just to block the most obvious passing option for the CPU. If you can do that, the'n CPU will usually backtrack and it buys you some time to re-organize.
 
Me!TheRaven said:
Absolutly spot on. You are totally right. This time around PES does feel like real football. I play the game with enthusiasm and my friends seem unable to keep up, because i use each team´s formation to its best, rather than havimg a preset, "comfortable" one, like them. You and Mauras(fellow compatriot), really do "feel" the game, and i think that´s something not all can do.4-5-1, 4-4-2,4-3-3 are great, especially with those teams that can use them better, but your(dutch)3-4-3 is special, and i recommend it over the others.Use it with a C defense line, A for pressure, all medium defense arrows, no attacking arrows whatsoever, except for the only DMF whom i give two diagonal backwards.Counter attacking can be set A,B or C depending on how fast you want to go forward, and with whom you´re going forward. I just love having the ball in this game!Score when i want the way i want.Except from headers. They don´t come easily. Cheers
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@Me!TheRaven: Great to hear this from you! I also love to play 3-4-3, but I experience difficluties against skilled human opponents. With this formation you'll be vulnerable at the back! Are you getting anything out of this with this approach: 3-4-3 and team settings for example: CACA?
One mate of mine is playing with Chelsea and I suffer counterattacks along the touchlines. Most of the times I'm outnumbered at the back and concede goals. Up front it's like a dream. I play with Udinese now a 343 tactic: against CPU on 5 or 6 *: no problems, most of the times I win! BUT against humans it's horrible. Maybe it's me because I'm crap at defending but when I play a 442 or a steady 451 I win, I concede no goals, have 55+ possesion and practically do not give away chances! What's your view on this?
 
ricola_pak said:
Here's my formation and I have never had trouble beating any particular teams
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You obviously havent played me yet then. ;)

I use a standard 4-4-2. As a matter of fact, I just stocked Arsenal's formation to start with and then moved players just very slightly in places.
I'll have a picture of it up soon to show you (If I can remember to).
Most of my tactical knowledge is about how to use the arrows and alter individual behavior.
Most people would think that the formation itself can affect how attacking and defensive a team plays but the truth is, its possible to be as attacking as 4-4-2 using even something like 5-4-1.
Its all about how you get each player to behave on the pitch. We now have this new Wing Back position but long before that, I was able to get someone like Roberto Carlos offside even from the left back position.

I cant really explain it all here cuz it would require too many pictures and diagrams to explain but experiment with the arrows and stuff. Try things out that you normally wouldnt.

You'd be surprised how important little changes could make in this game.
 
formation0kd.jpg

This is my formation. Very simple but I've never played anyone who I cant beat when I'm using this. Sure I lose games from time to time but I can always guarantee a victory over them at some point. Or to simply put it, I've never been outclassed when using this.
 
RuneEdge said:
Most of my tactical knowledge is about how to use the arrows and alter individual behavior.
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What do you specifically change? What arrows and defence settings do your players have? How are your team settings?

(By the way, happy christmas!)
 
i like a lot chelsea default tac! just drag the AMF to the right and its "almost" perfect, also like a 4-2-4 (1 dmf, 1 amf, 2 SS, 2 CF)
 
cyberskull said:
i like a lot chelsea default tac! just drag the AMF to the right and its "almost" perfect, also like a 4-2-4 (1 dmf, 1 amf, 2 SS, 2 CF)
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But then you'd be screwed in midfield as theres only 2 guys there. What if someone uses 4-5-1 against that? You're be hammered.
 
BK_83 said:
just found a new formation which provides that "second wave". Kind of beginning to like it. I used this with Man Utd against Spurs on 6stars,15min and won 5-0(well, it could easily have been 6,7 - 0)



Lineup i had: GK:Van der Sar, CB:Ferdinand, CB:Silvestre, LSB:Heinze, RSB:O'shea, DMF:Keane, CMF: Scholes, OMF:Park, ST:Rooney, LWG: Ronaldo, CF:V Nistelrooy
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right now im using this tac with juve! and it works great!
 
anyone found a formation that actually makes the game good? lol

No seriously, anyone recommend a strategy that will get crosses onto the heads of striker and into the net?
 
A good suggestion for BK_83's formation would be to swap Heinze and Silvestre's positions. Heinze is a much better CB and Silvestre is a better LB. Their stats clearly show this and its also the same case in real life.

And I dont think its really that important but I'd move Ronaldo to the right and Rooney to the left. Thats how they play in real life. Rooney is always cutting in from the left hand side. And although Ronaldo is all over the place, he's right footed so the right side would suit him better.
 
Can anyone tell me what ST stands for? I always thought it stands for striker but isn't striker the most attacking player, whereas the likes of Bergkamp, Baggio (all STs) are more of a playmaker type?
 
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