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So - what older version are you playing?

xicpanad said:
Hmm, it seems I can´t play smoke patch for some reason. I got it and installed it, but crashes in the team select screen...
Click to expand...

Had the same problem. Download kitserver11 and install it instead of the one in the patch. Should be fine.
 
Matt10 said:
Yes, I agree. I went through each of the PES from 2009 to 2014 and assessed gameplay and animations. Overall, I think PES 11 was just one of those that got lost in the shuffle and the transition to 2012 shadowed it's true capabilities.

Regarding an update, I am looking at possibly increasing defensive line height for less end to end action. Still trying to find the best value though.
Click to expand...

Well, I applied the xml file, and I have to say that the gameplay changes greatly, perhaps too much for me, I'm not very good with the pad. :NO:
Now I'm trying to change some skills, such as shot power, technique, accuracy, to fit to my skill (which is poor). :LOL:

I read somewhere here on evoweb, that in PES 2014, the CPU changes its strategy automatically, depending on whether it is in advantage / disadvantage so take a defensive or offensive tactic. For these reasons, user recommended to set all strategies "custom". it is better explained here:
http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showthread.php?t=73588

Well, I don'know what happens in PES 2011, but this should be investigated.

Still here on evoweb, but also on the Italian forum, where I write, someone else has experimented in the past with the editing of PES 2011. I give you both links, the discussion is the same (one is written in Italian) , hoping that it will give further suggestions for improvement of the gameplay:

http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2207462&postcount=1

http://oltreilcalcio.forumcommunity.net/?t=44675262 # entry311433013

However, I think that this is a new road to be explored, and I again thank Matt for his dedication in seeking new solutions to the game.:APPLAUD:
 
I´ve tried using kitserver 11 but now the game doesn´t even start. I must be doing something wrong but can´t find what.
 
massimuccio63 said:
Well, I applied the xml file, and I have to say that the gameplay changes greatly, perhaps too much for me, I'm not very good with the pad. :NO:
Now I'm trying to change some skills, such as shot power, technique, accuracy, to fit to my skill (which is poor). :LOL:

I read somewhere here on evoweb, that in PES 2014, the CPU changes its strategy automatically, depending on whether it is in advantage / disadvantage so take a defensive or offensive tactic. For these reasons, user recommended to set all strategies "custom". it is better explained here:
http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showthread.php?t=73588

Well, I don'know what happens in PES 2011, but this should be investigated.

Still here on evoweb, but also on the Italian forum, where I write, someone else has experimented in the past with the editing of PES 2011. I give you both links, the discussion is the same (one is written in Italian) , hoping that it will give further suggestions for improvement of the gameplay:

http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2207462&postcount=1

http://oltreilcalcio.forumcommunity.net/?t=44675262 # entry311433013

However, I think that this is a new road to be explored, and I again thank Matt for his dedication in seeking new solutions to the game.:APPLAUD:
Click to expand...

Fantastic reads, I'll be digging deep into them.

Here is a funny test though - and it actually plays well:

Set all Special Abilities to TRUE. (after making my adjustments)

That's right - all to true. You'd think you would lose player individuality but their ratings take over versus the player cards/special abilities. It's really nice because not everyone plays the same either. Yes, there are some quirks with the CBs pushing way past the half way line - but it's nice to actually see them pass the ball back to the keeper like it is in real matches.

My one thing, and this is on vanilla PES 11, is the through balls by the CPU. It's built in that the main way to pass forwards is a through ball - and of course that gets gobbled up by the defensive line.

So that's truly what I'm looking at. Honestly, special abilities all TRUE plays really well - while also keeping the individuality. Try it out.

xicpanad said:
I´ve tried using kitserver 11 but now the game doesn´t even start. I must be doing something wrong but can´t find what.
Click to expand...

Hm, does it load at all or does it crash? Does it work without kitserver attached?
 
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I realize that this is an "older PES" thread but most of the same strategies used in PES since forever to "enhance" gameplay works more or less on PES2014 as well.

@Matt10 - Work Rate is quite simply Stamina+Tenacity/2 in PES2014. You would get better results from increasing stamina than tenacity on this version, as high tenacity more or less negates adverse effects of fatigue in this game. This is also why Konami has rated a lot of players quite low in this ability. Any player with 80ish Work Rate and red-ish morale icon will work like a dog until knackered in this iteration. (Box-to-box seems to add an extra ~5 to Work Rate)

I'd also like to mention that PES2014 is a different beast than PES usually are. For good and bad of course. With the right strategy setting your players will move into space on their own accord, if they have the "stats" for it. Poor players not so much, but you can easily force them to through initiating one-two's, send them on a run manually or using the pass & move feature. It's all pretty much explained in the game manual. Reading the manual thoroughly is actually recommended for this game, it will enhance your understanding of how the game works and give you "tools" to make the game play more like you want it to... so to speak. After I read the manual, the game changed completely for me and I went from moderately dis-satisfied to quite content with sprinkles of astonishment from time to time. I rarely have two similar matches in a row in this game after I edited the team strategies like explained below.

This is from another thread; These mods also works fine with nesa24's gameplay modifications, including the catch-up removal tool. The latter will bug your game in a way that all players have a lower sock on one leg for some reason, easily ignorable though.
http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2943601#post2943601
ZeroTheHero said:
1. 1.16 (1.13 arguably better)
2. none
3. I changed Team Strategies according to these guidelines;

Strategy #1 - Mainly sticking to numbers from 7 to 13. Some exceptions were made for big teams who generally play offensive off the bat. I also set Compactness to the lower regions within the limits of the default strategy (Long Ball, Possession etc). Preferably 10 to 12.

Strategy #2 - Made these into either "park the bus" or "Deep lying Counter" strategies. A few exceptions were made for big clubs who I made a tad more possession based, but in all honesty it's the big club's weakness so I think I'll just make them counter as well. I also made all 4-3-3 formations into 4-5-1 variants, pulling the wider strikers down as SMF for more defensive duty. Preferably Compactness at 8 or 7.

Strategy #3 - Made sure all of these were offensive enough to pose a threat. SMF's pushed up as Wingers, more Pressing (15+), higher Compactness (13+) and so on. Too much emphasis on possession here will limit the team's effectiveness against human opponents as possession is generally a weakness due to the game's AI.

4. Global Player Edits;

ALL:
Wrong foot usage -2
Defensive Awareness +5
Ball Winning -5
Low Pass -5
Lofted Pass -5

GK:
Goalkeeping +5
Saving +5

SS/CF/WF/SMF/AMF:
Acrobatic Finishing (Just for some extra action and spice, and it works!) **Highly optional

Notes:
On a general level these modifications will make the AI teams act differently depending on the situations. If they score first it will become a massively different game than if you score first, for example. You also get the feeling that they attack with more men than usual once switching to the attacking strategy, since I've basically made sure they actually have more men forward in those cases.

I've also avoided formations with 3 defenders, particularly in Strategy #1, because they are extremely easy to exploit. I have made them into 5-3-2 formations with offensive backs instead, which isn't ideal but better than default. I've edited player positions when needed to make starting line-ups compatible. *As a result I no longer beat Juventus and Chile with two digits whenever I wish to, for example. I have kept 3-5-2 as Strategy #3 for those teams who play that formation in real life and it's harder to exploit, for some reason, towards the end of a match when the AI is chasing a goal. The passing nerf ensured that there's a big difference between the bigger teams than the medium and smaller. There are a lot more passing mistakes going on which makes tiki-taka pretty hard with weaker teams and long passes are often inaccurate. This severely reduced my scoring ration at least, and made the game much harder imo.

I have also made a lot of individual changes to players which are too many to mention here, but I've made sure that Zlatan, Messi, C.Ronaldo, Falcao and so on are leading the scoreboards across the world. The main changes consist of Form (7 or 8), More balance (+3 to 5+ where appropriate) and more Tenacity (80+). I've focused more on what works with the game than what looks "realistic" in relation to other players' abilities to be honest.

I've also boosted several of the players who had some kind of breakthrough in the WC, using PSD, FIFA, FM and my own assessment as guidelines.


PS. You should build the database according to what team you intend to play with. If you intend to play with Barcelona, you should make most teams much more strategically careful than if you plan to play with Everton, for example. Since I don't play with one particular team but generally play with "the second best" teams, I've built my database according to that. I never play with Barcelona, Real Madrid or Bayern Munchen.
Click to expand...
 
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ZeroTheHero said:
I realize that this is an "older PES" thread but most of the same strategies used in PES since forever to "enhance" gameplay works more or less on PES2014 as well.

@Matt10 - Work Rate is quite simply Stamina+Tenacity/2 in PES2014. You would get better results from increasing stamina than tenacity on this version, as high tenacity more or less negates adverse effects of fatigue in this game. This is also why Konami has rated a lot of players quite low in this ability. Any player with 80ish Work Rate and red-ish morale icon will work like a dog until knackered in this iteration. (Box-to-box seems to add an extra ~5 to Work Rate)

I'd also like to mention that PES2014 is a different beast than PES usually are. For good and bad of course. With the right strategy setting your players will move into space on their own accord, if they have the "stats" for it. Poor players not so much, but you can easily force them to through initiating one-two's, send them on a run manually or using the pass & move feature. It's all pretty much explained in the game manual. Reading the manual thoroughly is actually recommended for this game, it will enhance your understanding of how the game works and give you "tools" to make the game play more like you want it to... so to speak. After I read the manual, the game changed completely for me and I went from moderately dis-satisfied to quite content with sprinkles of astonishment from time to time. I rarely have two similar matches in a row in this game after I edited the team strategies like explained below.

This is from another thread; These mods also works fine with nesa24's gameplay modifications, including the catch-up removal tool. The latter will bug your game in a way that all players have a lower sock on one leg for some reason, easily ignorable though.
http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2943601#post2943601
Click to expand...

Hi zero - thanks for the post. From my editing, i think PES 2011 more mimics the PES4/PES5/PES6 set up than newer versions.

I haven't seen any effect to the mentality/tenacity (in PES 11) in regards to the fundamentals that need to be looked at.

I think what you've posted above is sound - but not geared for PES 2011. PES 2011 needs attention to the fundamentals first. The plan of attack will either be through the team strategy or player individuality - and in my case - both.

I do not plan on using any gameplay patches. I feel they cancel out some changes and I will not have the control if something goes off. Basically I do not want to add in the balancing act of gameplay patches along with edit.bin files.

The way the game is playing now on PES 2011 - and what I've posted on videos is the BASE that I am looking for. Any extra modification will be to enhance the base.

With the way I have it set up - the only issue, if you can call it that, is the fact that the CPU plays through balls to their attacks right down the middle versus the sides. Another minor one is the dribbling CPU players when using fixed mode - dispossessing players is easier for CPU v CPU and it's something I'd like to fix because you do not see that too often in real matches.

I'm uploading a video at the moment that has all special abilities except "Side" and "center" added to every player. In addition I've increased defensive line by 20%. Those two "tweaks" - and it makes for some interesting play while still keeping player individuality (i.e. Messi still dribbles, Xavi still passes and Torress still misses ;) )
 
massimuccio63 said:
A small question: when I try, with PES Editor, to record a macro to get the xml file, the box turns red but nothing happens.
What is wrong?
Click to expand...

That means it's working. When you are done editing, click on the box again and it will turn back to grey. Save and you're good :)
 
Matt10 said:
That means it's working. When you are done editing, click on the box again and it will turn back to grey. Save and you're good :)
Click to expand...

mmm... after 5 minutes (the box is still red) I click again, but opening xml file I see only that:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-16"?>
<global_tweak />
 
massimuccio63 said:
mmm... after 5 minutes (the box is still red) I click again, but opening xml file I see only that:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-16"?>
<global_tweak />
Click to expand...

That is strange. When you are doing your edits - at the top right does it show what has been changed? (beside the "HELP" text, in the grey box) ?
 
YouTube - PES 2011 testing Special Abilities and Defensive Line

In this video I'm showing raw gameplay after modifying only the following in the PES Editor 11:

- All players Special Abilities = TRUE
- All players Special Abilities - Side & Centre = FALSE
- All teams defensive line +20%

As you can see the game plays quite nice. A couple times where the CPU comes forward into the box and some players choose to be on the side versus the middle - so will look at that.

There are some things that can be adjusted by position, and that is what I will be working on next.
 
Matt10 said:
Hi zero - thanks for the post. From my editing, i think PES 2011 more mimics the PES4/PES5/PES6 set up than newer versions.
Click to expand...

Yeah, my approach was to actually recommend PES 2014 with tweaks. I actually think PES4-6 is terrible, by today's standards, so it's not something I want to achieve. I'm not talking about graphics by the way.

The best asset of PES2011 is the team strategy part, which was awesome. If you create sound strategies for all the teams, which I did, you'll achieve a game that feels alive rather than dead, for lack of a better comparison. The editing tools are also great for that version, w!ld@'s editor for example. You can tweak and update the database in a matter of minutes.
 
Ok I quit. I can´t make SMOKE patch work no matter what. I tried kitserver fix, I tried kitserver 11, I tried disabling antivirus... always crashes on the team select menu.
 
xicpanad said:
Ok I quit. I can´t make SMOKE patch work no matter what. I tried kitserver fix, I tried kitserver 11, I tried disabling antivirus... always crashes on the team select menu.
Click to expand...

Crashing on team select? What about edit player/team area?

Can you post your config text file and log file for pes 2011, please?
 
Hmm, I managed to make it work, but had to use a reloaded no dvd file. Although it works, most likely will mess up something in the patch. So, conclusion, its something related with the EXE in the smoke patch I downloaded.
 
xicpanad said:
Hmm, I managed to make it work, but had to use a reloaded no dvd file. Although it works, most likely will mess up something in the patch. So, conclusion, its something related with the EXE in the smoke patch I downloaded.
Click to expand...

The nice thing about the patch is the exe doesn't dictate anything. You can use any version of pes 2011 from 1.0 to 1.03 and it still works, I did that when testing to see which gameplay was best.
 
Matt10 said:
The nice thing about the patch is the exe doesn't dictate anything. You can use any version of pes 2011 from 1.0 to 1.03 and it still works, I did that when testing to see which gameplay was best.
Click to expand...

Ah ah nice. I´m all set then. :BOP:
 
Matt10, I've found a bug that must be there due to giving players all special abilities. Now when you try to change player role in the gameplan, the game crashes...

Otherwise I liked how it played. Only defensive lines are too high for my liking (though I understand why you increased their height). Another thing I can't understand is why players squeeze so close to the ball carrier instead of using the whole width of the pitch, considering Support Range is set to maximum. I can only think it's a default issue of PES 2011.
 
Tinker said:
Matt10, I've found a bug that must be there due to giving players all special abilities. Now when you try to change player role in the gameplan, the game crashes...

Otherwise I liked how it played. Only defensive lines are too high for my liking (though I understand why you increased their height). Another thing I can't understand is why players squeeze so close to the ball carrier instead of using the whole width of the pitch, considering Support Range is set to maximum. I can only think it's a default issue of PES 2011.
Click to expand...

You mean for the most recent test of special abilities, right? Yeah, I haven't gone too much further into it because of some of the potential issues in the long run, and in ML because inability to edit with the editor then - but it can be used as a tool to see which ones are effective, and necessary for each position to have. I believe unticking a box at a time, you will be able to tell what it does - and what real effect that option is set for. I think the hidden abilities (dribbling, tactical dribble, etc) have more of an impact that originally thought. Of course it should combine and compliment each rating value as well.
 
I repeat, the game will crash on tactics screen whenever a player in the selected squads have too many cards active. I am pretty sure the magic number is 12. To fix that easily use PES2011 Editor by w!ld@, add a card to all players, and you'll get a pop-up telling you which players have too many cards. Save the list, reload the OF and remove the overflow cards from the players on the list.

Tada...
 
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ZeroTheHero said:
I repeat, the game will crash on tactics screen whenever a player in the selected squads have too many cards active. I am pretty sure the magic number is 12. To fix that easily use PES2011 Editor by w!ld@, add a card to all players, and you'll get a pop-up telling you which players have too many cards. Save the list, reload the OF and remove the overflow cards from the players on the list.

Tada...
Click to expand...

I have yet to have any sort of crash in the tactics screen. Is there something specifically that you select to make the crash happen? Playing my ML and no crashes.
 
Matt10 said:
I have yet to have any sort of crash in the tactics screen. Is there something specifically that you select to make the crash happen? Playing my ML and no crashes.
Click to expand...

Hmm strange. For me it crashes when trying to change player role, for example from LWF to SS. I also thought it's probably due to more than maximum special abilities.
 
Like tinker said, I remember the issue from when I played PES2011. It has to do with the amount of cards. I'm a habitual gameplay-tweaker so I've been there, done that with virtually every single version under the sun. So if it doesn't crash for you, Matt10, you simply have no players with more than 12 cards in your team.

BTW I have a PES2014 experiment going, if you want to take part. It may shed some light on how PES actually works but I rather have different people test it before I reveal my observations to avoid the usual "it's placebo!" rant. I've noticed the same things in all PES versions I've played so you could probably do the same test with PES2011, 2012 and 2013 if you want to.

http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2945914#post2945914
 
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In PES, if your team (or your player in the case of BAL) have high Tenacity, the opponent will be harder to play against than if your team (player) have low Tenacity.

This is why people have vastly different experiences with PES. So, if you edit the whole DB to have high Tenacity and play Regular difficulty you'll have a more difficult ML career than a person that uses regular DB at a harder difficulty setting.

If you want a long and prosperous (somewhat easy) BAL career, make sure that you start out with very low Tenacity. If you want an easy ML career, buy good players with low Tenacity.

Use this information to "tune" the database difficulty more to your liking. The ideal difficulty in my opinion is between 70-75 Tenacity in BAL. If you play ML the rough average for your team works as an estimate.

By using this as a "difficulty slider" rather than the actual deifficulty setting you'll get less "AI cheating". Regular difficulty has little of that by default and the higher the setting, the more the AI cheats and virtually makes the game worse. So, it's YOUR teams' or players' Tenacity stat that matters, not the opponents for some reason. Konami is a strange bunch for sure.

This information is relevant for all PES versions that uses Tenacity. The older versions probably work similarly with a similar ability which would be Mentality if I'm not mistaken.

PS. The adverse effect is that the higher the Tenacity, the faster the gameplay is as well. There is also a problem that at some point the AI becomes impossible to wrong-foot or get off balance so dribbling becomes more or less futile at some point which is around 85 average Tenacity for your team.
 
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