Snooker 19 [PS4/XBO/Switch/PC]

[Chris Davies]

Gameplay is fantastic, but oh my God, they've ruined online play. It's absolutely pathetic and I'm actually furious about it.

So, before you hit a shot, you have three views. The table view, the cue view, the TV view. Online, you have 30 seconds to hit a shot. That's TEN SECONDS PER VIEW.

Not just to line up the shot, then fine-tune the shot, but to consider the path of the cue-ball, then apply spin, then take another look at th-TOO LATE, TIME UP, FOUL AND FOUR POINTS.

Absolutely destroys the gameplay online. You just can't play the game properly, you never have the time to just consider the next shot, LET ALONE change your mind about which colour you're going for. You just can't do it.

But to make matters worse...

There's a 20 minute match timer. At the end of that, it's just game over. Whoever was in the lead, wins. I will literally never finish a game. I've not played a game where the REDS have been cleared so far, let alone anything else.

On top of all that, you can only play one frame at a time. Even against friends.

What the hell were they thinking? It's a snooker game, it makes absolutely no sense. Snooker takes time. Even at a 60 second timer and a 30-40 minute match timer, it'd be PLAYABLE.

 

[Isslander]

Weird thing I didn't notice in the videos (it's still there when you notice it) but there is a weird color drainage or change in the balls when they are on the lowest third or so of the table. The white one looks like a semi transparent marble. It's really quite ugly and distracting.

 

[Chris Davies]

Weird thing I didn't notice in the videos (it's still there when you notice it) but there is a weird color drainage or change in the balls when they are on the lowest third or so of the table. The white one looks like a semi transparent marble. It's really quite ugly and distracting.

I didn't notice this until playing the game but yeah, you're right. Weird effect.

What annoys me more is that the commentator doesn't kick in until you line up a shot and press X/A to hit it, so the game knows if you're lining up a shot with a pocket, and yet THEN says "he's playing a safety here". YOU LITERALLY KNOW WHAT I'M ABOUT TO DO. Bad commentary is one thing, but knowing what I'm about to do and STILL saying the wrong thing almost feels spiteful.

EDIT: Also, you get a shout of "perfect positioning" when you go miles past what would have been an easy black. So... Not perfect, then.

Then you've got the crowd who will applaud and, on occasion, cut off instantly without fading out, and you think - how is that happening in this day and age?

Superficial I know, and nothing compared to the issues playing online (which totally ruin the game for me), but SO frustrating when the gameplay itself is so good.

 

[normazimuth]

I did notice the colour drainage thing in videos and assumed it was just because it's a video - not great if that's actually how it looks in-game.

The online stuff sounds bad but I suppose they could easily patch that if there was enough support for it. I wouldn't be playing online anyway, so not too fussed. On the timed-shot thing though, presumably no point playing that mode against the AI as the AI will always take 1 second to think about its shot and then just play it?

It's the AI that's stopping me buying this. All the videos I've seen demonstrate the same problems with it every frame. It's just not good enough. Their safety play is ridiculous and there seems to be no point playing safe against them as they will just take on (and invariably pot) completely unrealistic long pots. Exactly what I don't want from the AI in a snooker game.

And so many other details you expect from a modern near-full-priced game are missing or sub-standard. Was so obviously rushed out to coincide with the World Championship.

Maybe they'll patch it to be more believable but until then, or until the price drops to £10 (which will probably be within 4 weeks, once the snooker season is over), I'll give this a miss. Until then, I'll just stick with Pure Pool's snooker add-on, which I tried last for the first time in ages and it's actually ok for a quick knock-about, just the table physics is that of a pool table. Ironically, I've seen one or two people complain the tables are too fast in Snooker 19 - that was one of the main reasons I'd want it - so if they dare patch that to slow them down, it'd be a fatal blow.

 

[Stan]

Simplistic questio, should i buy this? Gameplay looks ok. Is it really difficult to make a series of points?

 

[Chris Davies]

I did notice the colour drainage thing in videos and assumed it was just because it's a video - not great if that's actually how it looks in-game.

I assumed it was HDR not recording properly (which is what happens with other games), but unfortunately it does look like that in-game. Reds go from a light sort of "cherry red" in their natural position, to a plum red against the bottom cushion. The cueball goes from cream, to marble. I have no idea why they've done it.

On the timed-shot thing though, presumably no point playing that mode against the AI as the AI will always take 1 second to think about its shot and then just play it?

You can't play the online versus (or online tournament) mode against the AI. You've got "quick match" and "career mode" against the AI, which let you take as long as you want for shots (and I mean, thank God).

It's the AI that's stopping me buying this. All the videos I've seen demonstrate the same problems with it every frame. It's just not good enough. Their safety play is ridiculous and there seems to be no point playing safe against them as they will just take on (and invariably pot) completely unrealistic long pots.

I played five frames against the AI last night and the guy I was playing, who was ranked 12th-16th in the world, bottled long-pots for five shots in a row. They'd rattle in the jaw and come back out again.

I tried "medium" difficulty, which made those same players hit maximum breaks of about 28, and "hard difficulty", which didn't actually improve that break a great deal - BUT it made them clear up if you left a (realistically) easy opportunity for a professional to claim the frame.

That being said, I know you're very "strict" when it comes to the AI (i.e. you aren't interested unless it's perfect), so I don't think you'd like it. I saw the AI play a safety shot against the right cushion a couple of times (i.e. leaving the ball there instead of on the top cushion), right next to the pack of reds, which left me really confused. That being said, I couldn't pot any, and I've had a blast playing the AI personally.

Happy to provide footage of anything you'd like to see.

Simplistic questio, should i buy this? Gameplay looks ok. Is it really difficult to make a series of points?

I think the gameplay is genuinely brilliant. The physics are the best I've seen, the difficulty is just right and I'm totally in love with the new shot system (the right-stick "fill up the bar" approach) - if you don't push the stick forward at the right time to hit the "perfect shot" window, it's not just that the power is less/more than it should be. It affects the direction and the accuracy of your stroke, too - so it makes for some high-pressure moments.

That "power window" also changes size (dramatically, on the hardest aim settings) so that, if you're against the cushion and you're trying to hit a long pot, the window you have to hit shrinks from a one-inch square to a thin little sliver that's incredibly difficult to hit.

The career mode - where you can't create a character, but you CAN start from the bottom, in the "Rising Star" mode (selecting a real-world young player) - is pretty good, I think.

Commentary and presentation are beyond awful (facial models stay perfectly still and have no animated parts, so when you shake hands with your opponent before a game, you just stare at each other like you're about to start a boxing match with them). But it doesn't ruin the game.

I don't regret buying the game at all, especially not for £30. I'm enjoying the game, and it means that they have the funds to keep patching it, and/or create another next year. But playing online is absolutely no fun given the current ruleset.

Who the hell takes a game that is all about being careful and accurate, and turns it into such a mess (online) where you're literally having to just whack a shot and hope it turns out because you've only got seconds left to set your power?

 

[normazimuth]

You can't play the online versus (or online tournament) mode against the AI. You've got "quick match" and "career mode" against the AI, which let you take as long as you want for shots (and I mean, thank God).

I'm pretty sure you can play Shootout mode against the AI, with timed shots. Although I don't see any point if the AI would never be under any pressure of time, you'd just be putting yourself under the pressure of the clock.

In fact, are you sure there's not an option when you play online to play the different modes, and you're finding yourself in Shootout matches each time? I've seen in videos you have an online trophy cabinet, so that surely can't just be trophies for 1-frame timed 20 minute matches?

I thought they were supposed to be running online tournaments concurrently with real world tournaments? Surely they haven't made the online World Championships a timed-shot, timed-frame, 1-frame match?

 

[Chris Davies]

I'm pretty sure you can play Shootout mode against the AI, with timed shots. Although I don't see any point if the AI would never be under any pressure of time, you'd just be putting yourself under the pressure of the clock.

Yeah, I haven't tried shootouts against the AI yet but I would bet you £10 they just hit every shot within three seconds, as they do in every other mode, which makes it a bit silly doesn't it...

In fact, are you sure there's not an option when you play online to play different modes, and you're finding yourself in Shootout matches each time?

Trust me. Online versus mode games are all locked to 20 minute games, 30 second shots, one frame each.

Tournament mode games are the same, up until the final few games (if you make it that far) where, I assume from what I've read, you get a few more frames.

You can't even play against a friend and use custom rules.

I thought they were supposed to be running online tournaments concurrently with real world tournaments? Surely they haven't made the online World Championships a timed-shot, timed-frame, 1-frame match?

The first God-knows-how-many rounds are exactly that. I can confirm by playing in it last night (and beating @jaygrim soundly).

Absolutely ludicrous decision.

 

[PRO_TOO]

I assumed it was HDR not recording properly (which is what happens with other games), but unfortunately it does look like that in-game. Reds go from a light sort of "cherry red" in their natural position, to a plum red against the bottom cushion. The cueball goes from cream, to marble. I have no idea why they've done it.


You can't play the online versus (or online tournament) mode against the AI. You've got "quick match" and "career mode" against the AI, which let you take as long as you want for shots (and I mean, thank God).


I played five frames against the AI last night and the guy I was playing, who was ranked 12th-16th in the world, bottled long-pots for five shots in a row. They'd rattle in the jaw and come back out again.

I tried "medium" difficulty, which made those same players hit maximum breaks of about 28, and "hard difficulty", which didn't actually improve that break a great deal - BUT it made them clear up if you left a (realistically) easy opportunity for a professional to claim the frame.

That being said, I know you're very "strict" when it comes to the AI (i.e. you aren't interested unless it's perfect), so I don't think you'd like it. I saw the AI play a safety shot against the right cushion a couple of times (i.e. leaving the ball there instead of on the top cushion), right next to the pack of reds, which left me really confused. That being said, I couldn't pot any, and I've had a blast playing the AI personally.

Happy to provide footage of anything you'd like to see.


I think the gameplay is genuinely brilliant. The physics are the best I've seen, the difficulty is just right and I'm totally in love with the new shot system (the right-stick "fill up the bar" approach) - if you don't push the stick forward at the right time to hit the "perfect shot" window, it's not just that the power is less/more than it should be. It affects the direction and the accuracy of your stroke, too - so it makes for some high-pressure moments.

That "power window" also changes size (dramatically, on the hardest aim settings) so that, if you're against the cushion and you're trying to hit a long pot, the window you have to hit shrinks from a one-inch square to a thin little sliver that's incredibly difficult to hit.

The career mode - where you can't create a character, but you CAN start from the bottom, in the "Rising Star" mode (selecting a real-world young player) - is pretty good, I think.

Commentary and presentation are beyond awful (facial models stay perfectly still and have no animated parts, so when you shake hands with your opponent before a game, you just stare at each other like you're about to start a boxing match with them). But it doesn't ruin the game.

I don't regret buying the game at all, especially not for £30. I'm enjoying the game, and it means that they have the funds to keep patching it, and/or create another next year. But playing online is absolutely no fun given the current ruleset.

Who the hell takes a game that is all about being careful and accurate, and turns it into such a mess (online) where you're literally having to just whack a shot and hope it turns out because you've only got seconds left to set your power?

that sounds a lot like the TGC2019 swing mechanic you did not like! to slow or to fast would make the ball fade or hook! hm...
or am i reading this totally wrong?!

 

[Chris Davies]

that sounds a lot like the TGC2019 swing mechanic you did not like! to slow or to fast would make the ball fade or hook! hm...
or am i reading this totally wrong?!

Have I ever said I don't like that? What I've said is that it was far too easy...

Here, the window you have to hit changes size depending on how difficult the situation is (in terms of how close you are to a cushion, for example) - whereas on TGC, every single shot is perfect once you know the rhythm. It's ridiculously easy.

(My last round in my TGC career, with the hardest club set difficulty, I'm at -19 on the first tee - and this is in the first year of my career. I'll never be bothered finishing the event, because what's the point when it's that easy.)

I honestly think the control method here is brilliant. It allows you to be consistent BUT not perfect (I've not played anyone online yet who's nailed it every time - though of course, I'm sure they will eventually, because that's online for you).

It feels just right to me - my misses are because of my poor judgement and not because of a wobbly hand. That's how it should be, IMO. Difficult but not frustrating (I wouldn't be playing it if I kept missing pots because I wasn't 100% accurate with a push of the stick, I'd be getting angry with the game - rather than myself, for my judgement).

It's just such a massive shame how they've approached online play. The first thing I wanted to do was play @jaygrim and we're both scrambling to make simple pots with simple cueball positioning, because of the ridiculous timers. It immediately killed off the fun I was having.

 

[Stan]

Thanks for the information Chris, i think i will buy this one. Here in Belgium snooker was a big thing in the late eighties and the early nineties. Used to play it a lot, but i was a bad player.
IMO snooker is the best possible sport for television coverage. But nowadays i hardly ever watch it. I stopped when Hendry was the best player and a 16 year O' Sullivan became a revelation (isn't he supposed to be a Spurs fan?).

 

[PRO_TOO]

Have I ever said I don't like that? What I've said is that it was far too easy...

Here, the window you have to hit changes size depending on how difficult the situation is (in terms of how close you are to a cushion, for example) - whereas on TGC, every single shot is perfect once you know the rhythm. It's ridiculously easy.

(My last round in my TGC career, with the hardest club set difficulty, I'm at -19 on the first tee - and this is in the first year of my career. I'll never be bothered finishing the event, because what's the point when it's that easy.)

I honestly think the control method here is brilliant. It allows you to be consistent BUT not perfect (I've not played anyone online yet who's nailed it every time - though of course, I'm sure they will eventually, because that's online for you).

It feels just right to me - my misses are because of my poor judgement and not because of a wobbly hand. That's how it should be, IMO. Difficult but not frustrating (I wouldn't be playing it if I kept missing pots because I wasn't 100% accurate with a push of the stick, I'd be getting angry with the game - rather than myself, for my judgement).

It's just such a massive shame how they've approached online play. The first thing I wanted to do was play @jaygrim and we're both scrambling to make simple pots with simple cueball positioning, because of the ridiculous timers. It immediately killed off the fun I was having.

alrighty!! thx for the explanation! got you now... might have misinterpretation that.
on the online part: yeah, when i read your comments about it... what a shame!!
same time i'm sure this can be fixed with an update... and will be!

 

[Isslander]

They are asking for feedback at twitter @Lab42Games like Chris mentioned earlier in this thread.
Enough people @ them and I am sure they will fix things. I will be getting at them because of the ball colour issue, just want to play a few more matches first.

 

[Hawke]

Still waiting for PC release..supposed to be 2pm

 

[Isslander]

Had my second matchup in a tournament, I was Marco Fu against Joe Perry. Difficulty felt quite right and there were actually some fairly good safety battles, but Joe did play about 15 (no joke) safety shots where he played a pretty long ball to pin point perfect land against the target ball, so touching ball was called. About 8 of these were in a row, so I could eventually play a perfect snooker as I got to repeat pretty much the same shot over and over again, with the touching ball allowing me to just play the cue ball away.
In the end, he won 2-1. Despite the mentioned accuracy, I enjoyed the frames. Also, the weird colour issue was not there. Might be tied to different lighting models for different venues or something. Just guessing.

 

[kamy100]

I tweeted the developer about the issues Chris mentioned and they are going to look at it as a few others have also tweeted them about it. They could just offer the option to switch it off and then it is the best of both worlds.

 

[Isslander]

Seems that Selby just uses the rest without fail if you play against him in a shoot out. Pretty funny stuff.

Edit: I played another round with him and he gave the rest a... Well, rest. Either way, I stood no chance.

 

[Chris Davies]

On the one hand, delighted that they've announced a patch so quickly.

On the other hand, still no mention of online play being totally ruined by timers.

Unbelievable that you enter a tournament, which I'd like to take seriously, and you have to play it like a game of pool with the lads when you're half-pissed because of the stupid timers.

I'd also like separate leaderboards for different aim difficulties - the Master aim difficulty is SO MUCH FUN, and really difficult, I WANT TO PLAY OTHERS on Master - but it'll never happen...

 

[Andy]

I assumed it was HDR not recording properly (which is what happens with other games), but unfortunately it does look like that in-game. Reds go from a light sort of "cherry red" in their natural position, to a plum red against the bottom cushion. The cueball goes from cream, to marble. I have no idea why they've done it.

Sounds possibly like a rendering or shader bug. Is that still present?

The first thing I wanted to do was play @jaygrim It immediately killed off the fun I was having.

Sorry i misquoted you here But even without timers this was always a possibility Say hello to the old git when you get the chance. And ask him to post some of his "fine art"

One more important question is can we use classic players? would love to play as the hurricane. i doubt it tho because surely that would have been a big point.

 

[Chris Davies]

Sounds possibly like a rendering or shader bug. Is that still present?

(Tagging you @Isslander because you noticed this too...) I realised last night that if I don't play in HDR, it doesn't happen - but in HDR, it does. So God knows what it is.

Something else happens in HDR - when the "glossy" bits on the side of the cue catch the light, they turn a burning bright shade of neon pink. It looks like a lens flare, times about a million. Like you're playing snooker in space. Bizarre.

One more important question is can we use classic players? would love to play as the hurricane. i doubt it tho because surely that would have been a big point.

It's got all 128 top-ranked players, including Jimmy, who you can play as in the career mode (or online)... So far, everyone I've played (other than Jay) have either been Peter Ebdon, Jimmy White or John Higgins - I'm shocked nobody's been Ronnie yet...

Sorry i misquoted you here But even without timers this was always a possibility Say hello to the old git when you get the chance. And ask him to post some of his "fine art"

Will do, I'm sure he'll come and post an insult if I let him know you're asking after him, so prepare yourself.

 

[Isslander]

@Chris Davies I think I have HDR turned off on the PS4, are you sure the difference is not between venues? Because I played at least one match where I did not notice the colour thing. Or rather, noticed that it wasn't there.

 

[Stan]

The ai in this game is very unforgiving for a newbie (a noob would my son say) like me.
I would like a mode where you can play against the table with no opponent, a practice mode. That would help me a lot...

 

[Isslander]

The ai in this game is very unforgiving for a newbie (a noob would my son say) like me.
I would like a mode where you can play against the table with no opponent, a practice mode. That would help me a lot...

Start a new career and you are bound to play some lower ranked players. I think Pro aiming is a good place to start, short shots are easy but as soon as you need a thin cut or a long pot, things get tougher, as they should.

 

[Stan]

Thanks. If i read your post, i misunderstood tha aiming system. I Always use amateur amining because i thought that gives the most assistance. Gives Pro aiming more assistance?

I'm slowly getting better making litle breaks, but by safety shots are very poor. I think i struggle most with the pace of the cue ball...

 

[Isslander]

No it's likely harder but I still find it's not a bad place to start. The pace of the cue ball is deffo the hardest thing to deal with on Pro as well.

 

[Chris Davies]

Again, gameplay is great, but it's clearly been rushed out. Some of the non-gameplay stuff is shocking.

I've just beaten the current #3 in the current tournament (Xbox One) and I should be delighted. But I'm not. Because he potted a ball WAY before the (aforementioned) stupid bloody 20 minute match timer ends, BUT because the cueball doesn't stop rolling, it doesn't give him the points, and it awards the frame to me. TOTALLY unfairly.


If I was him, I'd be throwing the game in the bin after that.

That's not to mention that draws essentially fuck up the game (the stats just don't come up), and are counted as losses (for both of us, I assume)...


That sometimes the game doesn't turn the lights on in the arena (check out the player's face, it's like horror film lighting)...


And that the commentators don't know what's going on (but it IS pretty dark)...


Here's hoping the devs care.

EDIT: Oh, also, online tournaments aren't knockout tournaments either. You just play as many games as you can in two weeks and whoever has the most points at the end of it (points which appear to be awarded randomly, they have given no explanation as to how they work) wins.

So those who haven't got jobs/partners/social lives, win.

Really disappointed with it online.

 

[Stan]

This is slightly off-topic (maybe completely), but the few times i've played online were awful experiences. Either the game mechanic is broken, the connection is bad or it brings the worst out in human oponents (and often all three of them).

The only games i often play online are games where you have no direct opponents like SSX or now Dirt Rally 2.0.
In both games you play against time and that seems pretty fair.

My son is playing quite a lot online with his friends, mainly shooters (Fortnite of course, buit other similar games too) and then that game wich is basically football with cars. He seems to enjoy but also often complains about the connection and lag...

 

[Chris Davies]

Anyone who's interested, there's a tournament starting for this shortly that looks to be a million times better than the official ones...

https://www.snookerclublive.com/event-info/snooker-club-live-test-event-ps4-xb1

 

[Andy]

Got this the other Day on pc. compared to the old WSC games it is a big improvement. The commentry is sparse but i like that, what urked me with the old series was the inane repetitive babbling from virgo about "i'll have two sugars in mine" and the like. At first i couldnt buy a frame, playing as jimmy white rated 74 was tough going at first. I was just managing to take the odd frame in a lost match. However last night things seemed to settle down more established my highest break so far of 46 (i feel confident of doing better lol) and i am currently 2-0 up in a best of five qualifier for the china open. Of course it has its flaws and glitches but its small beans to me.

 

[Chris Davies]

New patch out now on PC and PS4, the Xbox patch is still in certification.

Details here of what it contains. They've increased the match/shot timers, which is great, but it's just a ten second shot time increase in online tournament games - which is still really shitty, in my opinion (especially when the shot timer for regular online "versus" games has been doubled, increasing by 30 seconds).