Should PES move to a new Engine for PES 2021 in anticipation for NextGen Consoles?

[Chuny]

One or two more years with Fox and develop the game also on the new engine in the background or something.

How do we know they haven't been doing that?.
For all we know, the team that's been developing PES mobile version under UE4, might have been preparing the ground for the rest of the game to be ported when the order is given from those above.

I mean, if we are assuming that PES under a new engine would have to be rushed out with no previous preparation, we might as well also consider the other possibility. Maybe they learnt from their mistakes of the jump from PES 2013 to 2014.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

How do we know they haven't been doing that?.
For all we know, the team that's been developing PES mobile version under UE4, might have been preparing the ground for the rest of the game to be ported when the order is given from those above.

I mean, if we are assuming that PES under a new engine would have to be rushed out with no previous preparation, we might as well also consider the other possibility. Maybe they learnt from their mistakes of the jump from PES 2013 to 2014.

What about PES2008? That only would make you think PES2014 shouldnt be a rushed game

 

[Chuny]

What about PES2008? That only would make you think PES2014 shouldnt be a rushed game

But PES 2008 wasn't poorly optimized, with huge responsivess and input lag issues. It was just a bad game period (in my opinion).

Had PES 2014 been as responsive and so packed with animations as PES 2020 and with some more game modes and I think it would still be remembered a ground breaking football game that took things to a new level.

 

[rojofa]

I'm not sure how much the current limitations of the game can be blamed on the engine, or if it's simply Konami's incompetence/laziness that makes so much of the game feel so dated.

FIFA moved to a new engine for FIFA 07 on 360. Look at that game and compare it to the final games on that engine in 12/13 (before Ignite)...

I'm not saying they executed them perfectly, but they managed to add plenty of new stuff in the same engine... Most notably skill moves, 360 degree movement, impact engine and gameplay sliders.

It feels like PES 14-20 have barely shown any improvements on a technical level at all - if anything the player inertia and balance mechanics have regressed since 14. They've added more animations, and ball physics/individuality have been refined, but there's been no standout technical advancements like EA managed in that 07-13 generation.

Theres just been no ambition or innovation whatsoever from PES on this generation. Maybe the Fox Engine isn't helping, but the root of the problem appears to be Konami themselves.

 

[laki89]

As far as improvements goes, lack of licences are becoming more notable. Konami knows this and they are trying to balance it.

 

[Negatrev]

As far as improvements goes, lack of licences are becoming more notable. Konami knows this and they are trying to balance it.

I'm probably quite selfish in this regard. But as a PC player (PS4 is likely similar) I'd much rather money went into development rather than licences. However, the market side of my brain understands that licences actually lead to more money available in a subsequent year as licences sell games for a large portion of a fan base.

 

[Emroth]

I'm probably quite selfish in this regard. But as a PC player (PS4 is likely similar) I'd much rather money went into development rather than licences. However, the market side of my brain understands that licences actually lead to more money available in a subsequent year as licences sell games for a large portion of a fan base.

From my personal point of view - no point in getting licenses if they are utilised the way they are. Id much rather prefer everything fake (by fake I mean same as english league. Cities names and players, more or less similar kits) and much wider edit mode, with D2's (or D3's) and all other bells and whistles to import (addboards, scoreboards, balls, etc.)
What they do with licenses these days is just embarrassing.

Then again - as you said - from marketing point of view, as embarrassing as they are, they matter. Konami reps can put pictures of themselves eating piemonte ice creams and laugh at EA (Even tho Piemonte presentation in game is probably better than their licensed Juventus.. )

 

[hitmanuk]

Had a big discussion about stadiums in the past and I sort of understand why stadium creator isnt there (even tho I completely disagree with it)
Apparently - importing Option Files is Ok coz you are importing IMAGEs. And this is not created within the game. Stadium Creator is a No-No, coz you could build a stadium using in game tools.
Have to say - it sounds like a lot of bollox to me.
You cant license city names, so they changed all the teams to names of the cities (finally).
But you also cant license Letters, colours, shapes. I dont get how come there is no option to draw a shape on the shirts for Xbox users, or writing something on the shirts (as a sponsor).
If this whole license thing is so strict - Lego blocks should be banned. Minecraft should be banned.
It doesnt make sense to me whatsoever..

But its not only stadiums. Its a whole lot.
Its everything else.
Predator there said it like the game had reached some football heaven there - feature and gameplay wise.

Truth is - clipping is awful, collisions are awful, referees are diabolical, shots have little variety, game modes are dull and empty, Master League is predictable and boring, menus are horrendous, immersion is none existent, AI lacks individuality, there is no atmosphere...
I could go like this all day..

I dont agree with people saying that they brought the game to some insane level with Fox and it will be a shame to start from scratch.
The only thing they have is savage ball physics and very good animations.
(And they always had that - regardless of engine)
They merely optimised Fox now and they have a solid and playable game. But its not anything extraordinary.

Hence I dont really see why people would be against new engine. Id rather now, then later, when PS5 is at its full potential and Konami will be there trying to crack how to program a referee.

Mobile is running on Unreal for a while, so its not like it would be completely alien engine to work on.

Doesnt the golf club have a course designer? Providing it was all done away from Konami servers as in no one is uploading anfield to Konami and then people installing anfield from Konami I can’t see the issue, they could market it as build your own team feature but allow you to make and create and assign as many as you like

 

[Emroth]

Doesnt the golf club have a course designer? Providing it was all done away from Konami servers as in no one is uploading anfield to Konami and then people installing anfield from Konami I can’t see the issue, they could market it as build your own team feature but allow you to make and create and assign as many as you like

This is exactly the part I dont get. Its for your own use, for your own ML. Our stadiums would never go outside our own game. But hey - what do we know...

 

[Chuny]

Yeah, it could just be an excuse. Like many others we've been told along the way.

 

[papinho81]

This picture is a metaphoric representation of how I perceive the code of PES (as a non coding expert) on the current engine. It seems they add strings to strings that are there since forever. If new engine means starting from fresh code then yes do it konami!

 

[Ameppe]

I think they will after a couple of years. Fox Engine based engine is now way too old and will only add more and more restrictions to a game engine that needs to be way more free.

Fox Engine was born to be multigenerations, a sort of hybrid Ps3-Ps4 engine and if you ask me it's a miracle they managed to develop some great games like Pes 2017 and Pes 2020 with such an outdated engine.

I don't know if they will use Unreal Engine or not, but i'm not too fond of that idea. They should use a completely new engine created specifically for football games.

 

[Peter Withe]

It should move to a new company let alone engine.

I hope Konami go into administration soon and a capable, modern thinking company buys the PES IP and does something good with it. I’m absolutely sick of the series now, it’s tired, broke and archaic.

 

[zlac]

And who exactly from PES dev team is supposed to bring forward this fabled Fox 2.0 or merely bring current Fox to new-gen standards? Brains responsible for Fox creation have long left Konami's boat (Kojima's engine guys and gals). Current PES team? Don't think so, if anything, they were admitting themselves on multiple occasions that they merely keep learning how to use the engine that Kojima "handed" to them, so to say (Adam's tweets and interviews).

Can't see PES team working simultaneously on both the game and new engine. I think we saw how that went during PS3 era, 2008-2013.

 

[Ameppe]

It should move to a new company let alone engine.

I hope Konami go into administration soon and a capable, modern thinking company buys the PES IP and does something good with it. I’m absolutely sick of the series now, it’s tired, broke and archaic.

I would agree if there was someone capable of doing that. EA doesn't care, 2K is all about microtransactions, they managed to ruin NBA 2K, any other suggestions? Show me that modern capable administration and i'm with you.

EA is a modern thinking company, good luck with that. You have your modern football game, Fifa it is. But i seem to remember you played Fifa 20 too and didn't like that. At a certain point one must accept reality: we have to compromise and choose which game is more suitable to our taste. A modern game like Fifa or an outdated game like Pes.

Besides i don't think Pes is as archaic as you say, it's just too limited, but the core of the gameplay has always been good. They "just" need a new engine removing all those limitations.

 

[Pwalie86]

Regarding the OP. Next gen consoles are to be released next year in November it seems so definitely not 2021. Xbox 2 is confirmed for 2020 release. Next E3 should be fun to see Fifa and PES 21 trailers and news. Unless the trailers they show are from PS4/XB1 and re-shown on newer hardware later in the year. Not sure how it was handled in 2013.

I do believe there are a lot of rumours pointing to a February reveal for PS5. A great year ahead.

 

[Camaldinho]

No. Only because we saw what happened with PES 2014 when they was preparing for 'Next Gen'... Yes i would love a new engine, but slowly and surely into it. So if we have to wait a couple of more years i'm fine with that. But in terms of moving the game forward, the engine needs a change.

 

[Pwalie86]

I would guess the same problems wouldn't persist as Unreal Engine isn't a new one unlike Fox Engine was back in 2013. And coupled with maybe less platforms to develop for. The gen we have now may stick to Fox and new consoles end up with Unreal.

And next gen is the biggest leap of all generations, so more power and less limitations. PS3 to PS4 wasn't exactly big. We're going from 1.8 teraflops to potentially 12, with a minimum it seems of 10.

I think it would be easier to train programmers up on an existing engine. Maybe that's why Fox Engine was initially a nightmare. If they'd have gone with Unreal to start with then who knows how PES 2014 could've turned out?

Starting a new generation with the same engine of over 6 years is incredibly short-sighted.

 

[Chuny]

And who exactly from PES dev team is supposed to bring forward this fabled Fox 2.0 or merely bring current Fox to new-gen standards? Brains responsible for Fox creation have long left Konami's boat (Kojima's engine guys and gals). Current PES team? Don't think so, if anything, they were admitting themselves on multiple occasions that they merely keep learning how to use the engine that Kojima "handed" to them, so to say (Adam's tweets and interviews).

Can't see PES team working simultaneously on both the game and new engine. I think we saw how that went during PS3 era, 2008-2013.

UE4 seems to be far more user friendly.
Indie developers and even regular people like any of us are, use it all the time and develop their own small games.

About the 2008-2013, well I've already talked about it in my previous posts so I wouldn't want to repeat myself.
But I think it's a very different case now, mate.

 

[loco]

I'm pretty optimistic it will be on Unreal Engine. They are already using it on the mobile version of 2020.

 

[Twit1977]

Hard to tell, With all the power in the world this is what it's capable of...

PES 2020 for me is the best football game in 13 years so it would be a massive gamble moving away from it especially if it's to a 3rd party engine they are not used to. Look at Fifa using the utterly brilliant Frostbite engine... it's gone backwards as the engine does not suit the game.

PES mobile uses Unreal Engine 4 how does that game play and look?

Totally agree

 

[ThomasGOAL]

PES need switch to Unreal Engine, "apparently" the Fox Engine are not updated since Kojima left Konami.

 

[Costa6117]

Hey guys, i know im a bit late in here😉

But I truly hope Konami switches to a new engine with its new installment this year, the fox engine was great but i just feel like the current dev team can't innovate much anymore with the current build. Just to show you guys how much detail the Fox engine hides I ripped these two models and used a modern render engine. No textures are changed or details are added. This just makes such a difference in my opinion

 

[PRO_TOO]

Hey guys, i know im a bit late in here😉

But I truly hope Konami switches to a new engine with its new installment this year, the fox engine was great but i just feel like the current dev team can't innovate much anymore with the current build. Just to show you guys how much detail the Fox engine hides I ripped these two models and used a modern render engine. No textures are changed or details are added. This just makes such a difference in my opinion
View attachment 32301
View attachment 32302

Those eyes are scary though.
Good job dude!

 

[Alx1234]

If I was a nextgen console I'd be embarrassed to have this glorified pachinko machine with limited offline capabilities playing on me and wasting my resources.

I'd have like 2 terabytes of space free and you'd still get a 3-save-slot limit.

Embarrassing.

 

[Pwalie86]

Both games on PS5 will be a huge step forward graphically. Seeing as though PS4/XB1 were always underpowered even from the start. It's a really big leap in tech this time around.

Have a feeling it's going to border more on photorealism this gen coming.

 

[rockstrongo]

Yes of course!
though I feel the current engine not being Pes biggest issue.
Gameplay and ai being superhuman at times is.
if they had a CPU playing Vs you in a better (less cheaty) way,I'd take that over a new engine.

 

[Chuny]

Well we are only a couple of months away from the first bits of information and screenshots get out there, either officially or leaked.

Personally, I don't think they'll make the jump just yet.

 

[Jgames]

Should Konami/PES move away from the FOX ENGINE now? What do you think?
Do you think the FOX ENGINE has come to its end and they've squeezed it the very last drop out of it? Has PES reached its full potential with it?
Do you think there's more that can be done with it or at least maintaining the current quality would be enough for another year?

Rumours have been going on for the past two years about a possible switch to UE4 (Unreal Engine 4) which have never been confirmed.
Even though the mobile version is indeed developed under UE4, that doesn't necessarily mean that they would use that one for the other platforms.

Considering PS5 and XBOX will be coming out sometime during the first quarter of 2021... do you think PES should move ahead of times, preparing PES for what's coming next? Or maybe simply wait until those consoles are already out and only then make the big change, which would be for PES 2022?.

I believe that the change of engine is very necessary for the change of generation but I also understand that the Fox Engine has not been able to realize its full potential. there are very few games that use this engine and just look at the metal gear of the year 2014 to see a better potential than we see in the saga pro evolution soccer .. even I lean towards the ue4 would give more freedom to the creators of content since it is a free software

 

[PRO_TOO]

Well we are only a couple of months away from the first bits of information and screenshots get out there, either officially or leaked.

Personally, I don't think they'll make the jump just yet.

Weeks man! Weeks just sound so much better!
Let me believe in early news around April!

but again, not much of a change for the core game I’m awaiting here. Just minor tweaks, some pr phrases... let’s have an interview about that.

a big step will be noticeable fall 2021! A HUGE one maybe a year later. That’s just from my guts.
Wishful thinking is surely included in my comments!!