Should FIFA introduce mandatory salary caps?

[gomito#10]

Again, having a poor front office and a high salary cap have no correlation. Kobe wants to get traded for the exact reason you stated, Kupchak is an idiot. I'll restate it again, almost every team in the NBA is over the cap, you can't win without going over it, some of the best teams are WAAAAAAAY over the cap, some are even paying the luxury tax(do you know what that is?). Think about, the Lakers are over the cap, not surprisingly. Do you know what could happen if there was no salary cap? The Lakers could pursue Chauncey Billups, who is one of the more sought after free agents this summer. He would fill the Lakers tremendous black hole at the point guard spot, there biggest weakness IMO. But they are over the cap, and can't afford Billups unless they offer him the vets minimum, or the MLE(the average salary of the NBA, an exception that can be used by teams to go over the cap, regardless if you are over the cap, under it, or if the signing puts you over it, the reason why most teams are over the cap, and are winning franchises) if the Lakers are even given the right to use the MLE this summer. Billups won't accept anything less than a max deal, so offering the vets minimum or the MLE or even LLe is useless. My point is if there was no salary cap you could pursue who you want without being tie on a leash by the cap.

and again the reason there over the cap is beacause there GM overpaid for free agents and traded for kwame brown, which was disatrous... there over the cap beacause of bad management, if they had gotten better value in the shaq trade then kwame brown then we wouldnt be having this conversation. Teams who play the cap right can amass a bunch of stars see dallas, san antonio, detroit. There gm's brought in the right players, the lakers did GM did not, he got kwame. The sam would apply to futbol, managers would have to make sound decisoins, make the right signings, pay certain players the right money for there worth, dont overpay players that would force you over the cap(unless the player is worth it) the cap does not force teams to medocrity, bad decisions in the front office lead to medocre teams(for the most part). Just look at the knicks. Rocky you bring up some great points, but at the end of the day the lakers will win another NBA title again, but now isn't there time, the nba is cycical different teams compete to be number one every year, and thats what doesnt happen in futbol. The same teams compete over and over for the same titles. In the NBA winning teams come in cycles and this is in large part because of the salary cap, dynastys have a short life cycle, and there is always going to be parity. I think this is what alot of people want in futbol, parity.

 

[PetrovLFC]

yes footballers work for a living (some more than others, but no-one should receive the amounts of money they currently receive, it is scandalous)

Maybe once we cap salaries, we will weed out the players in it for the money, fame and lifestyle, and we might just get people who truly love playing football for a living, and for a passion.

I really dislike Lampard atm, not only has he been dreadful for England as of late, he pronounced after the FA Cup final that he wanted to stay at Chelsea, because he loves the fans, the club, and that they were 'his people'. A few weeks later, he's stalling over a new contract, and guess what, yes wages are the stumbling block. He's turned down 90k a week?

People that earn that in a year are considered to high flying fat cats.

 

[Chris Davies]

That's exactly how I feel. I was so taken in by the headline "£1 billion" that I instantly thought how much that could do for people less fortunate than the footballers, less fortunate than you and me - and totally forgot about the actual footballing issues I have with it, mainly the fact that the Premiership is overflowing with money while lower-league clubs are going out of business, and exactly what you mention - players who claim they love the club, love the fans and then say "I'm worth more than £90k a week, do you know who I am?"

I'm not claiming to know all the answers, but football in this country is (in my eyes) going downhill fast. You've got players diving left, right and centre, cheating teams out of points, and what does the FA suggest in a chairman's debate? "Penalties at the end of tied league games, that'll make the game more exciting!" Seriously, whoever came up with that initial idea should be fired (preferably out of a cannon), and whoever supported it should take a long hard look at a game of football and look for real issues instead of making up "exciting" new fucking rules. The whole essence of sport is an even contest, man versus man - I'm sorry but I don't care who you are, whether you're Portuguese, English or a Tranmere player, if you dive, then you are a cheat, and you're contributing to the downfall of the sport.

But saying all that, if the money issue isn't sorted out, the lower-leagues will die and the Premiership will be all that's left, so that is currently the bigger issue. Fans of their local team give up supporting them when they're stuck with the same crap players year in year out, and they'll jump ship to either the most local Premiership team or the team who's currently winning the league. If it carries on, there will be no lower-league fans and so the clubs will just die - there'll be no reason for them to exist when you can watch the team you "support" every week on Sky Sports.

That is why I'm in support of a salary cap.

 

[gomito#10]

you guys are way short sighted... the players DESERVE EVERY PENNY THEY GET! This has nothing to do with player salaries. The fans come to see the players, they are the reason season tickets are bought, they are the reason merchandise is bought, they are the reason the clubs are what they are. I have no problems with what footbalers makes. I could care less. What I do have a problem with is the same teams winning the same titles year after year.

 

[gomito#10]

yes footballers work for a living (some more than others, but no-one should receive the amounts of money they currently receive, it is scandalous)

Maybe once we cap salaries, we will weed out the players in it for the money, fame and lifestyle, and we might just get people who truly love playing football for a living, and for a passion.

I really dislike Lampard atm, not only has he been dreadful for England as of late, he pronounced after the FA Cup final that he wanted to stay at Chelsea, because he loves the fans, the club, and that they were 'his people'. A few weeks later, he's stalling over a new contract, and guess what, yes wages are the stumbling block. He's turned down 90k a week?

People that earn that in a year are considered to high flying fat cats.

did you ever think people who earn that much are hard working talented cats? How many england and chelsea lampard jerseys have been sold over the last 6 years? How much money has lampard received from that?

 

[gerd]

I can sympathize with people who dislike players like Lampard this year or Ashley Cole last year...they already are billionaires why do they need more???
But sometimes arguing to earn more is not about the money, but about justice...
I work and i work a lot...i'm important for my branch and the money i earn is good, although since i have lots of evening and weekend work, i'm worse of than most of my colleagues who never have to work evenings and weekends...am i greedy??? I don't think so.
I too think that the amount of money some football players earn is ridiculous but would i refuse that same amount??? I don't think so, would you refuse it Jack or Peter Eyres??? I don't think so.
About Lampard, he earns much (too much), but is he wrong to ask for more??? I'm not quite sure about that...Lampard is very important for Chelsea. Maybe players like Ballack, Ashley Cole or Shevshenko earn more although they aren't as important as Lampard...maybe it has nothing to do with money, but about a lack of appreciation...

 

[lo zio]

I too think that the amount of money some football players earn is ridiculous but would i refuse that same amount??? I don't think so, would you refuse it Jack or Peter Eyres??? I don't think so.

that's not the point. imo. nobody would refuse that money of course..... but this doesnt' mean that this situation isn't disgusting.

i can't blame levis managers for "cutting" 35000 workers.... managers pursue their own interests. and probably i would have done the same thing...... but is it fair? can we consider something "fair" just coz we would do the same thing? i don't think so. i think i would do the same thing coz i'm no perfect, coz i'm selfish, coz i put my own interests first. but i would be smart (or not blinded) enough to understand this situation is disgusting.

and that's why we (as communities) established some rules, to disallow us to pursue our own interests, when this means throwing down somebody else... that's why we have rules that control workers salaries, managers taxation, society taxation, sindycates activities.
we all live in a world where the main rule is the market law, and we all know it. but nontheless (almost) we all live in countries that have some sort of wellfare programs. those 2 situations can co-exist.
we have to respect market law and abramovich's right (just to make an example) to do what he wants with his money, but on the same time, we can also put some limits to his activity, when it's about paying football players salaries.

afterall, what the hell, they're football players. the 60% of the world population has some troubles in finding some food everyday..... and we still tollerate this waste of money!

the players DESERVE EVERY PENNY THEY GET!

it's all about market rule, mate. as long as the majority of the people will have your same idea, u will be right... they will actually deserve that money.
but i would really like that u and all the people that has your same view could spend 1 week in africa. just 1 week... it's enough to change your perspectives, to change your views FOR EVER.


we decided to be ruled by market law. and i can accept it. and i can understand why we did it.
but can i say totti or lampard or ronaldinho deserve to earn more money than etiopia, eritrea, vanatu, haiti and sierra leone gross domestic product??
Honestly i can't.

35000 kids today will die of starvation in africa. have u an idea of how much is 35 thousands? it's like 10 twin towers disasters. and i'm not talking about all the people... i'm just talking about kids (under 13 years age)..... and i'm not talking about all death causes (aids, wars, lack of water, other disases), i'm just talking about FOOD.
and this happens EVERY FUCKING DAY!

actually i don't give a shit about "same teams winning the same titles year after year". i think there are bigger issues than how competitives our football leagues are.

i guess most of u will find this post quite annoying, but that's my feeling. theese are my priorities.

we chose the way of the market rule. and i can accept this. but i can't accept when people say that this is a "good way". AT LEAST WE HAVE TO ADMIT THAT WE CHOSE THIS WAY COZ IT'S BETTER FOR US!!!

 

[Abhishek]

^ Great post! :applause: Respect :salute:

I absolutely agree, there are much bigger issues in this world than a team winning a football league year after year. TBH, those figures of 35,000 deaths daily are just astonishing

As far as having salary caps, let's put this straight. Even if we do have them, the money that is going to get saved is NEVER going to reach the needy. However, I do feel salary caps may certainly balance the teams, and help lower leagues. Its never going to happen though, the bigger clubs have too much influence

 

[gerd]

I agree with Abishek's post and also with lo zio...
But the big paradox in this case is that some overpayed football players make life more bearable (Marx' opium for the masses: football) for quite a lot of poor people in some countries...I think if you would ask in the favella's of Rio or Sao Paulo if Ronaldinho earns too much few would say yes, same for Eto'o if asked in Yaounde or any third world player.
What disturbs me more is not the fact that they earn too much (but all of us in Western Europe and the USA earn too much compared to third world people), but the fact that some of these guys who were once very poor don't see any problem to advertize for products that are made in sweat shops (the average Nike product, most balls are sewen by childeren in Bangladesh and countries like that,...).

 

[lo zio]

I absolutely agree, there are much bigger issues in this world than a team winning a football league year after year. TBH, those figures of 35,000 deaths daily are just astonishing

....and i was just talking about kids who die of starvation. if we consider people of all ages who dies for every causes (except natural causes, of course) that number grows to 120 thousand people........ PER DAY!

However, I do feel salary caps may certainly balance the teams, and help lower leagues. Its never going to happen though, the bigger clubs have too much influence

i have the same feeling, but i hope we're wrong

But the big paradox in this case is that some overpayed football players make life more bearable (Marx' opium for the masses: football) for quite a lot of poor people in some countries...

but Marx theory had 1 huge weak point. it was based on the assumption that each man's actions were the same, that each man would react the same way, that each man would act "reasonably"...... wich is totally wrong :roll:

ther's something ironic in our incoherence. until market rule assure us wellness, we're all for it. but when it brings to disasters, then we use socialists models :roll:

just consider our bankruptcy laws. we give to our managers complete freedom, when it's about organizing their activities. but when their companies face bankrupt (coz, as i said before, men are not machine, they don't act always reasonably, as marx used to think), then we apply socialists models, to avoid those companies being dismatled or liquidated(wich would be the unavoidable consequence of our managers bad decisions, according to the market rule).

talking about football clubs, a perfect example could be lazio situation. CONSOB (wich is the italian version of the american SEC)did let Cragnotti do whatever he wanted, they had lazio financial books, they knew lazio was going to collapse, but nontheless the did nothing........ until lazio actually collapsed for cragnotti companies bankrupt. then they opened a special insolvency proceeding, putting some limits to managers powers.
now lazio is a "clean" company, with good incomes, less debts, a SALARY CAP...... and they still managed to reach the 4th place in serie A

 

[Cloud1863]

you guys are way short sighted... the players DESERVE EVERY PENNY THEY GET! This has nothing to do with player salaries. The fans come to see the players, they are the reason season tickets are bought, they are the reason merchandise is bought, they are the reason the clubs are what they are. I have no problems with what footbalers makes. I could care less. What I do have a problem with is the same teams winning the same titles year after year.

I think this comment is short sighted, as Lo Zio states no sporting player deserves more income than a country, the deaths put a lot in to perspective and again is one great point highlighted again m8.

While we pay for over priced tickets, merchandise, food the players and clubs will hold the same value and worth in the market. We can hardly complain and expect to get somewhere, we are a big part of the problem. I buy at least two shirts every season, though I am not a season ticket holder I can spend up to £100 - £160 a season on tickets, give Sky money for the sports package all year round, buy products that major sponsors ie official drink of the WC, CL etc... These are a combination of what gives footballers the massive wage that they are on.

I agree with Gerd on the Lampard situation though, its a sense of respect the money situation. He is worth more to the team that the players that are on more than him. That's his prerogative to seek what his worth is in a market that is out of his control. For all I hate to see such a massive world changing amount of money that is given to footballers at the top they are not bad people for taking it. I sure would, "let me do you want £100,000 a year as its a large amount of money, would take you out of the world you are living in and to top it off would give you the dream of being a footballer. Or would you want the same as everyone else gets and have the £100,000 every week." I may sound a bit hypocritical to take something I don't totally agree with but I am far from a mug and if that is the going rate and everyone else was on it If I were as good as them I would want it. We can't really blame the players. However If we seen a decrease in wages due to a salary cap and players started to complain then maybe my feelings would change. I know its less the poin Lo Zio but feel that players should get less of the blame than they are accumulating.

 

[lo zio]

I may sound a bit hypocritical to take something I don't totally agree with but I am far from a mug and if that is the going rate and everyone else was on it If I were as good as them I would want it. We can't really blame the players. However If we seen a decrease in wages due to a salary cap and players started to complain then maybe my feelings would change. I know its less the poin Lo Zio but feel that players should get less of the blame than they are accumulating.

i't s not about being hypocritical, mate, it's about being "human". me too i would take that money if i were a "ronaldinho", and maybe i would also spend hundreds of millions to built a "dream team" (i'm not so sure about that btw..:mrgreen: ).

and the same goes for big companies managers. we all always pursue our own interests. but our societies often put some limits to our powers, to prevent iniquities.

this is not talking about an utopic world... this is possible... we already did it many times... we have sindicates, we have antitrust laws..... theese instruments prevent the "bad consequences" of market rule.

football nowadays is a no man's land. the real problem are not football players or club owners... the problem is the lack of rules. we badly need to put some limits to money distribution in football, to keep our leagues competitives...... and most of all to avoid this unacceptable iniquity.

 

[gomito#10]

i't s not about being hypocritical, mate, it's about being "human". me too i would take that money if i were a "ronaldinho", and maybe i would also spend hundreds of millions to built a "dream team" (i'm not so sure about that btw..:mrgreen: ).

and the same goes for big companies managers. we all always pursue our own interests. but our societies often put some limits to our powers, to prevent iniquities.

this is not talking about an utopic world... this is possible... we already did it many times... we have sindicates, we have antitrust laws..... theese instruments prevent the "bad consequences" of market rule.

football nowadays is a no man's land. the real problem are not football players or club owners... the problem is the lack of rules. we badly need to put some limits to money distribution in football, to keep our leagues competitives...... and most of all to avoid this unacceptable iniquity.

OMG, how you guys link what footballers make to the utter poverty in africa is beyond me!??!?!? I mean one has nothing to do with the other.... If lampard made 40k a year, africa is still going to be poor... The players deserve the money they get beacuse its simple economics. Supply and demand. The amount of money that oil companies make is what disgusts me, not what a footballer makes. They make me happy, the provide millions of people with happiness and outlets and Joy. Oil companies exploit world weaknesses for there own profit, they are also war profiteers who make money of the dead of there countrymen. To me that type of profiting is disgusting, not the type that do good for the world, doctors, scientists, atheltes, teachers etc... I also think weapons manufactures profits disgust me, pharmaceutical companies, some lawyers(sorry lo zio ), anyone who profits off the miseries or weaknesses of others pretty much disgusts me... but not footballers, they are in high demand so they should make what the market warrants..

I agree with lo zio, in that the leagues need to be more competitve, and perhaps the footballing world needs to be regulated industry...

 

[lo zio]

I think u misunderstood me, Gomito. i'm not against footballers or football club owners. and i'm far from being an anti-capitalism :mrgreen:

i don't blame football players at all, and i don't think they're responsible for poverty in africa.

football is a very big industry. and we're the engines of this industry, we buy tickets, we buy footbal shirts, we buy pay-tv packages... we all give this money to our clubs, and our clubs use this money to pursue their strategies.

in the past 50 years the amount of money that circulates around football world massively grew. but the most unbelieavable thing is that football clubs expenses grew even more (and u can notice this by looking at our clubs financial situations). but this is not due to tottis or ronaldinhos contracts. this is due to "unknown" players contracts. and that's the funniest thing.
Palermo bought a 17 years old romanian player a couple of years ago; i'm quite sure u don't know him..... neither i knew him :mrgreen: .. this "kid" (his name is ergadu if i remember well) didn't even played a single match... he just played for the youth team. of course he had a "poor contract" he earned nothing, compared to toni or corini or barzagli.... but do u know how much is this "nothing"? 500.000 euros per year. this is what "nothing" means in football. and i'd like to underline that palermo didn't earn a cent from his "merchandising"... nobody bought his shirt.....there are thousands of "ergadu" in europe. an army of 17, 18, 19 years old kids who earn as much as a lawyer or a doctor.... and what is their "work"? 2 hours of training per day.

with 15 euros u can provide to a family in darfour food, vaccins and education for 6 months....
last year medicins sans frontieres left darfour BECAUSE THEY HAD NO MONEY. this means that giving 30 euros per year is too much for us. but we have no problems when is about buying football matches tickets....

as u will easily realize by reading what i wrote, i don't blame football players for poverty.... we give them those money....
and i don't blame oil companies, coz we give them their money...
and i don't blame weapons manufacturers and pharmaceutical companies coz give them their money...

their money are our money. nobody becomes rich for a miracle. if someone becomes rich, is because somebody bought his "products".
simple economics... supply and demand, as u correctly say. that's the only limit of the market law.

this brings to a simple conclusion. football players are not bad, weapon manufacturers are not bad (and neither weapons are), doctors, lawyers, companies managers are not bad. none of them is to blame.. WE ARE THO ONES TO BLAME. because world's actual economic situation is the consequence of a simple rule: demand\supply.
this brought us to give 500.000 euros to a 17 years old kid for playing with a serie b youth team (we were in serie b when we bought that guy) and to refuse to give 30 euros per year to feed a family.

now let me ask u one question: do u think we're mature enough to handle the "market rule"????

EDIT: a salary cap is just a way to put a limit to this situation. it's not the best solution, but it's the easiest and fastest solution.
the best solution would be up to us. Being more conscious of our luck, of our wellness. avoiding to spend 50 euros for a football shirt, and use that money to help somebody to survive.... this would be the best solution

 

[gomito#10]

I think u misunderstood me, Gomito. i'm not against footballers or football club owners. and i'm far from being an anti-capitalism :mrgreen:

i don't blame football players at all, and i don't think they're responsible for poverty in africa.

football is a very big industry. and we're the engines of this industry, we buy tickets, we buy footbal shirts, we buy pay-tv packages... we all give this money to our clubs, and our clubs use this money to pursue their strategies.

in the past 50 years the amount of money that circulates around football world massively grew. but the most unbelieavable thing is that football clubs expenses grew even more (and u can notice this by looking at our clubs financial situations). but this is not due to tottis or ronaldinhos contracts. this is due to "unknown" players contracts. and that's the funniest thing.
Palermo bought a 17 years old romanian player a couple of years ago; i'm quite sure u don't know him..... neither i knew him :mrgreen: .. this "kid" (his name is ergadu if i remember well) didn't even played a single match... he just played for the youth team. of course he had a "poor contract" he earned nothing, compared to toni or corini or barzagli.... but do u know how much is this "nothing"? 500.000 euros per year. this is what "nothing" means in football. and i'd like to underline that palermo didn't earn a cent from his "merchandising"... nobody bought his shirt.....there are thousands of "ergadu" in europe. an army of 17, 18, 19 years old kids who earn as much as a lawyer or a doctor.... and what is their "work"? 2 hours of training per day.

with 15 euros u can provide to a family in darfour food, vaccins and education for 6 months....
last year medicins sans frontieres left darfour BECAUSE THEY HAD NO MONEY. this means that giving 30 euros per year is too much for us. but we have no problems when is about buying football matches tickets....

as u will easily realize by reading what i wrote, i don't blame football players for poverty.... we give them those money....
and i don't blame oil companies, coz we give them their money...
and i don't blame weapons manufacturers and pharmaceutical companies coz give them their money...

their money are our money. nobody becomes rich for a miracle. if someone becomes rich, is because somebody bought his "products".
simple economics... supply and demand, as u correctly say. that's the only limit of the market law.

this brings to a simple conclusion. football players are not bad, weapon manufacturers are not bad (and neither weapons are), doctors, lawyers, companies managers are not bad. none of them is to blame.. WE ARE THO ONES TO BLAME. because world's actual economic situation is the consequence of a simple rule: demand\supply.
this brought us to give 500.000 euros to a 17 years old kid for playing with a serie b youth team (we were in serie b when we bought that guy) and to refuse to give 30 euros per year to feed a family.

now let me ask u one question: do u think we're mature enough to handle the "market rule"????

EDIT: a salary cap is just a way to put a limit to this situation. it's not the best solution, but it's the easiest and fastest solution.
the best solution would be up to us. Being more responsibles of our luck, of our wellness. avoiding to spend 50 euros for a football shirt, and use that money to help somebody to survive.... this would be the best solution

i agree with everything you say, the situation in darfur is deplorable. So yes in a real sense, we are the ones to blame.

 

[Rocky]

and again the reason there over the cap is beacause there GM overpaid for free agents and traded for kwame brown, which was disatrous... there over the cap beacause of bad management, if they had gotten better value in the shaq trade then kwame brown then we wouldnt be having this conversation. Teams who play the cap right can amass a bunch of stars see dallas, san antonio, detroit. There gm's brought in the right players, the lakers did GM did not, he got kwame. The sam would apply to futbol, managers would have to make sound decisoins, make the right signings, pay certain players the right money for there worth, dont overpay players that would force you over the cap(unless the player is worth it) the cap does not force teams to medocrity, bad decisions in the front office lead to medocre teams(for the most part). Just look at the knicks. Rocky you bring up some great points, but at the end of the day the lakers will win another NBA title again, but now isn't there time, the nba is cycical different teams compete to be number one every year, and thats what doesnt happen in futbol. The same teams compete over and over for the same titles. In the NBA winning teams come in cycles and this is in large part because of the salary cap, dynastys have a short life cycle, and there is always going to be parity. I think this is what alot of people want in futbol, parity.

You make some very good points, but think about teams that can't fill a need on their roster because their cap-tied. The Nets need a power forward badly but can't afford one without giving up one of our star players. Maybe I'm just bitter that my team is on the wrong end of the salary cap, so let's just agree to disagree.

One thing to the other posters in this thread, what the hell does this have to do with poverty in Africa, or Darfur for that matter? Seriously you guys are all over the place just trying to make an argument that players don't deserve the money they get.
You don't realize how much talent you need to have or how hard you have to bust your ass to make it as a professional athlete. They deserve every penny they get.

 

[lo zio]

to "keep in life" this thread (this subject looks very interesting to me) i'd like to make an intersting comparison between different ways to approach football world.

as all of u will know juventus has been always owned by an important italian family (i'd say dinasty) whis was for almost 40 years the emblem of the italian capitalism: the Agnelli family. they're among the richest and most powerful families in the world and their commercial activities are known everywhere on the planet.

nontheless they always had a parsimonious an "penny-wise" approach to football. even if juve is one of the most succesful clubs in europe, they never spent too much money for buying player and their contracts (comparing them with the others european top clubs).

of course they had great players, but they were always careful to the financial aspects of the football club.

when juve bought platini, Gianni Agnelli first comment about the transfer was "well, sure he didn't join us for a piece of bread", with his great and elegant irony and sarcasm.
when media "attacked" juventus property, accusing the agnelli family to invest almost 1\2 of the money inter and milan were used to invest, Gianni used to reply "football isn't our only activity, we've got industries, there are thousands of workers we pay each month and spending too much money for our champions contracts would mean disrespecting our employees. football is nowadays a big industry.... but it still remains a game, and we must remember it always, to avoid going too far, to avoid exaggerations".

theese words seems to me so "weird" in a world where "exagerations" are generally accepted as an habit. and the difference with many clubs philosophies (about club managing) is really impressive (talking about milan, inter, chelsea, real madrid, ecc...).
nontheless when we talk about football clubs achievements we always put juventus on the top of europe, together with the clubs i mentioned before (wich makes this comparison even funnier).

of course we can't expect all football clubs onwers to have the same "sensibility"Gianni Agnelli had.... but we could force them to act as they actually had that sensibility, putting some limits to their activity (wich would be salary cap's main purpose, imo).

 

[gerd]

I agree with you on Agnelli lo zio, but the example of Juventus is perhaps a litle bit unfortunate knowing what Moggi did...
There are other good examples or bad example...i remember that shortly after Zico began playing for Udinese, their president's factory went bankrupt and thousands of his people were out of work...
I also know that the fact that we buy merchandise products instead of giving money to the people of Darfur makes us "guilty". Perhaps "guilty" is not the right word because come to think of it, it's not my fault that people suffer .....but we share a responsability.
As for me, i try to do some good things (i'm lucky because in my profession i can help people which makes me feel good) but i have my priorities...I remember reading "No Logo" and being impressed by the way sweat shops in countries like Bangladesh or Haiti work.
I remember an anti-globalist movement taking Haitian sweat shop workers to a Wal-Mart in the USA. The Haitian workers were stunned to find Disney t-shirts in the Wal-Mart. This was a perfect example how the world is turning out: the Haitian workers produced hunderds of t-shirts a day.If they wanted to buy one single t-shirt in the Wal-Mart they had to spend months of their wages...this is outragious. When i was reading that book, i was also reading Michael Jordan's biography which was a weird combination...I cannot understand how a wealthy black man like Jordan can work with Nike...but...
To put it all in perspective and to illustrate my attitude towards these things: since reading that book i decided not to buy Nike or any other products by companies mentioned in the book. But the day my 4 year old son would ask me to buy the aforementioned t-shirt, i wouldn't hesitate a second: i will give it to him...which makes me responsable amongst millions of other people...
Off-topic, i know...

 

[lo zio]

I agree with you on Agnelli lo zio, but the example of Juventus is perhaps a litle bit unfortunate knowing what Moggi did...
There are other good examples or bad example...i remember that shortly after Zico began playing for Udinese, their president's factory went bankrupt and thousands of his people were out of work...

well mate, the "moggi-era" is just a grain of sand in juventus history. and afterall, he and giraudo were just managers the property was always an "agnelly thing". And also during the moggi-era, the agnelly family was very penny-wise... just consider that moggi often accused the family not to invest enough in their "creature", and, today, that idiot still uses this stupid excuse as the reason why he was "forced" to do his dirty tricks.... wich is ridiculuos, if u think that, before moggi came, for 80 years juventus managed to have a succesful team with the same "penny-wise" philosophy...... and without cheating :roll: .

anyway u're right, there are (a lot of) bad examples and (a few) good examples (in italy too).
and there are also, some "bad examples" which turned into "good examples" in the past few years, like lazio, roma and udinese

I also know that the fact that we buy merchandise products instead of giving money to the people of Darfur makes us "guilty"...........

later i'll reply to u about this with a pm, to avoid going off topic

 

[Vannizzlefashizzal]

Some good points made by all....

I just always find it difficult to point the finger at anyone in the entertainment industry and expect them to have social responsibility simply because of the money they generate and inturn are paid...

There are CEO's of major corparations that wouldnt get out of bed for what footballers are paid, and im not just talking about commercial business, what about drug companies, wepon companies etc, banks, the stock exchange, look at the bonuses that City bankers are paid, ludicrous sums of money get thrown about...

Not to mention how much of our collective money has been spent on the war in the past few years...

Surely that is where the blame should lie...

I believe, like actors, muscians etc, footballers are entitled to a fair share of the money they generate, rather they get it than fat cat directors...

 

[lo zio]

Some good points made by all....

I just always find it difficult to point the finger at anyone in the entertainment industry and expect them to have social responsibility simply because of the money they generate and inturn are paid...

i see your points mate, and i understand it. but the real point is that football clubs dont "generate" money.... neither football players or any other kind of industry.
money aren't generated, they just "circulate", move around from one hand to another.

so Lampard's money (just to make an example) aren't generated by him.... he just "collect" money........ from us (when we buy his shirt, when we buy a ticket....).
so, as u can see, that "social responsability", it's not his responsability...... it's our responsability. We decided to give him that money (rather than spending them for buying a pair of jeans, a book, a car, a cd, for charity..).

he just put a "product" on a free market (his product is his professional performance). but it's up to us to decide which "product" we want to buy, which industry we want to support, where our money has to go.

we are the real carriers of that social responsability. But of course most of us don't realize to carry this responsability, some of us realize it but nontheless they just don't give a ..... some others think that this situation is even fair (like that Rocky29 seems to think :mrgreen: ).

we just can't "educate" all the "rocky29s" out there.... it would be impossible. exactly as "we can't point the finger at anyone in the entertainment industry" (as u correctly say).

but we could put a limit, we could establish a rule (like a salary cap).
afterall Van, why did we establish stealing is a crime? Coz we can't expect everybody won't steal just coz "it's not fair".

that's the only reason why we always establish "rules"