Scotland - Italy

[Cloud1863]

Not just passion but intelligence like none of us blame the ref for losing the game.
And we don't want a manager of a team to take over if we had qualified that finished below us just to follow hype.

Bollox ive been a couple of Rangers and one Celtic forum and this excuse has been used by a ood few people where I have seen it, goto pesfan im sure a few people have used it there.

The Scots are famous for the double standard it seems, have you seen the papers there media over the last week you would think they were about to ein the Euros the way they where going on. The headline on the Record "Fadiator". I honesly didnt mind to much about Scotland getting through as long as we did but after hearing the constant nonsense from some Scottish fans im quite happy Italy won.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/7092597.stm
link to McLiesh blaming the ref.

 

[Sabac Red]

The Scotland team have embodied so much that England lack. The passion and organisation have been great and I feel really sorry for the Scottish lads....Scotland deserve to be at the EUROs.

Same can be said for Northern Ireland, it's great to watch the players playing for each other aswell as the team & manager.

Unlucky Scotland now it's time to concerntrate on WC 2010.

I hope NI can make it to the euros.

 

[Chris Davies]

.....

but u guys don't seem to be really interested in football talking, so i rather leave u to your racists comments.

have a nice conversation.

lo zio, you say you come on here to talk about football and then you say "Jack" and "Jack Bauer" more times in one post than in a 24 script-writer's session. Do you know what hypocrisy means?

You talk about noticing a lot from my post, including racism. Try noticing this: "And unfortunately every time an Italian team is in a match refereed by a tosser like that one in the near future, eyebrows are always going to be raised."

That is me saying, unfortunately (meaning I AM SAD TO SAY, not I AM GLAD TO SAY), because of what happened in Italy, some people will always wonder. Italian football has been involved in scandals, ask people outside of Italy what they think of first when they think of Italian football and they'll most likely say "bungs" - and if football news commentators are allowed to say "it may take a while before they get their credibility back in some quarters" (again, some, NOT ALL), why aren't I allowed to say that?

More importantly though, why the hell does that make me a racist? I said several times that Italy played the better football and deserved to go through. Italian football is great football, I love the players, and it was an exciting match last night, but that referee was incredibly annoying. He was blowing his whistle for anything. The last thing on God's green earth that I am is a racist and if making a joke about a country involved in a football scandal makes me racist then everyone on earth who's ever made a joke is a racist. It amazes me how some people are so quick to play the "racist" card.

I was venting my frustration at the referee, NOT AT ITALY (again, I said several times that Italy played the better football, in that post and in the chatbox at the bottom of the forum's main page). I was joking, it was a harsh joke but he was absolutely terrible. He was blowing his whistle every time someone's shirt rippled in the wind. So it's the referee I was taking the piss out of, NOT ITALY (who again, one last time for good measure, played the better football and I was saying so all night).

Perhaps the post wasn't fully understood but that's no excuse to say I'm a racist. I regret that you said that, and that you think that. But it's done now so if you want to talk about football then go ahead.

 

[lo zio]

Do you know what hypocrisy means?

yes, i do.
it is hypocrite to spit cheap shot sentences (like claiming cheating is an italian matter) and hiding them behind an "unfortunately".

are u saying that an "unfortunately" should make your ridiculous statement fair?

so could i say that "unfortunately serbian are violent people" or "unfortunately americans are ignorant people" or "unfortunately french are chauvinist people"?????
does this simple word (unfortunately) avoid theese statements to be ridiculous chea shots??

And unfortunately every time an Italian team is in a match refereed by a tosser like that one in the near future, eyebrows are always going to be raised."

are u talking about the same tosser who denied a goal to italy?
the same tosser who considered scotland goal as valid?
the same tosser who already refereed 4 italy matches (and italy lost all of those matches)?

i will ask u once again: what would have u written then if scotland would have been denied a valid goal? what would have u written if italy's goal would have been unvalid?
if it wasn't for that tosser, italy would have won this match 0-2..... and it would have been a fair result too.
i really can't understand how can u say the ref was on italy's side.

Italian football has been involved in scandals

scandalS? i can just recall 1. i can just recall a damn bastard trying to mess up an entire championship by abusing of his influence on the italian refs association....

but let me remark, jack, italy is a 60 millions people country... does that scandal allow u to consider cheating an "italian matter"...
well, mate, u'll be surprised... we also have murderers, rapers, thieves, paedophiles here in italy...
does this makes murders an italian matter? or raping? or stealing?

Moggi did what he did just to pursuit his own interests. it was a manager of a club trying to destroy the fair competition in serie a..... what the hell this has to do with italy's national team.
do u really think that "if moggi did it, then the italians must be all a bunch of cheaters". Where's the link with our national team?

ask people outside of Italy what they think of first when they think of Italian football and they'll most likely say "bungs" - and if football news commentators are allowed to say "it may take a while before they get their credibility back in some quarters" (again, some, NOT ALL), why aren't I allowed to say that?

as far as i care, u're allowed to say anything u want..... aswell as the english news commentators...... afterall those commentators also said that moggi paid the refs wich is wrong.... they are allowed to say anything... i don't really care about the comments of people who doesn't even know the facts.

but, exactly as u're allowed to generalize, claiming cheating as an italian affair, i'm allowed to mark yor post as ridiculous and racist... (if u don't like the word racism, u might call it "wrong generalisation" or "prejudice" or "stereotype").

me too, i'm allowed to say that england is a country of bastards cheaters coz of what ron dennis, mike coughlin and maclaren did a few months ago.... that's what speech's freedom is about; even an idiot can say anything is coming into his mind.

but if i would come out with such a stupid, ridiculous, racist cheap shot, then u would be allowed to have a laugh at my sentence, remarking how 1 bastard cheating doesn't make england a bastards cheaters nation.

I love the players, and it was an exciting match last night, but that referee was incredibly annoying.

i don't care if u like italian players or italian football or italian people. everybody has his own likes.
the only thing i demand is respect and fairness.

i don't expect people to like me or my country or my team. but i can't tolerate people to throw shit on italy just coz one bastard did something wrong 2 years ago.

u're right, the ref was pretty annoying yesterday. but italy paid the heaviests consequences of his mistakes, not scotland.
we were the ones who were damaged by his wrong calls. and that reversed foul at the end of the match is nothing compared to a valid denied goal and an offside goal given.
if u can't realise this, i really can't help u.

but then i wonder. what will happen if next time italy will REALLY take advantage of some refs wrong calls?
i mean, this time i can easily reply u by saying your complaints about the ref are ridiculous as italy was damaged by the ref yesterday...... but u never know, maybe next time the ref will do some wrong calls which will really give us an undeserved advantage (cos that's football)....


let me tell u something. the only reason why i replied to u is because i used to consider u as a good poster. i always liked your mood and your posts, and it really surprised me to read such a stupid cheap shots coming from u.

but then again, who cares. keep going like this. i wrote what i felt was needed to be written, and i'm not really interested in getting involved in this conversation.
as far as i care, u can even think we italians are all little moggis...:lol:

 

[Milanista]

Anyway.......

What did you think of Italy's performance Ben?

 

[vanzandt]

lo zio, you say you come on here to talk about football and then you say "Jack" and "Jack Bauer" more times in one post than in a 24 script-writer's session. Do you know what hypocrisy means?
.

lo zio is a classy guy and one of the nicest people anyone could wish to talk to on a forum and in my experience not a hypocrite, the complete reverse in fact.

Having looked at your post Jack I have to say that you seem to have semantically spun yourself into a world wind.

lo zio mentioned your name about four times, so you are greatly overstating his reference.

More importantly I think his displeasure and frustration stems from these comments;

Shame, referee was absolutely terrible, seemed like either he was Italian or bunged (and this is Italy we're talking about).

That is a disgraceful statement Jack and your attempts to justify it was more semantical spin and well…...you can’t explain that statement away it is unfair and unacceptable to most right minded thinking people- sorry.

The referee whether you are happy with his decisions or not was independent and your comments are an insult to the integrity of the referee and to the Italian team/people. Call the referee poor, but don’t say he was bias or fixing it- that is a HUGE claim and slur on the referee that demands proof.

He was blowing the whistle for fuck all and then an Italian guy totally FLATTENS the Scottish guy, charges into him and knocks him flying... Nothing given. And unfortunately every time an Italian team is in a match refereed by a tosser like that one in the near future, eyebrows are always going to be raised...

This is one sided and anecdotal.

I offered my commiserations to Scotland, they have embodied a brilliant spirit and organization and I wish they had qualified prior to this match against Georgia.

But in this match is it not true that the referee made at least if not more errors against Italy?

I am not saying this from a point of view against Scotland, I’m just not.

If it is true that the Scotland goal was offside and if it is true that the Italian goal that was given as offside was onside then;

Wouldn’t that lend credence to the fact that the referee was poor in respect of both teams, something that would point to poor refereeing ability as opposed to the suggestions you have made about the integrity of the referee or the Italians?

And in the final analysis, if the big decisions were no more than 50-50 (I am being kind here) then would that not mean that overall those decisions can not be seen to be the cause of the result?

These are questions for people to answer for themselves. I am not arguing this with anyone who tries to turn my points into such and I am not doing that because I wanted Scotland to make it.

So Jack if you didn’t call into question the integrity of the Italian national team, then I don’t think there would be a problem, but you did do that and that has caused the issue. I don’t think you meant to do that, I think you went too far inadvertently due to frustration.

I wish we had England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales in the EUROs, given some of the people I have enjoyed speaking to on these boards I wish that also included Italy and Belgium.

I wish these threads didn’t always descend into the mire, but they do.

There is too much nationalism on show or too much selective bias and it comes out and it all just gets very untasteful.

 

[Milanista]

I dont understand how Scottish fans can say they were robbed. I personally saw a much better Italy. Scotland had their 2 or 3 good chances, but Italy was constantly creating chances and the quality difference was there. It should have been 2-0 for us at one point as well.

 

[Chris Davies]

No point in writing anything else to you lo zio because you have your mind made up now, but just so you know...

i will ask u once again: what would have u written then if scotland would have been denied a valid goal? what would have u written if italy's goal would have been unvalid?

The same thing, because the referee was blowing for every foul. I don't support Scotland (there is a rivalry between England and Scotland, do you realise that?). I don't support Italy either. I'm English. My problem was with the referee. Scotland were giving their all, Italy were playing better football regardless, but one thing I cannot stand in football is start-stop-start-stop-start-stop and the referee ruined the game for me.

And when I said "unfortunately" (which you have gone on a rant about), I was saying that other people will see Italy as possible bung offerers because of recent events, not that I do personally. The statement was made to be so direct that it was meant to be obvious that I didn't actually believe it. My comment was tongue in cheek and I apologise that this hasn't come across, I could have put a winking smiley but I find that condescending, personally. But I am still hurt that you have called me a racist because I assure you, from one intelligent adult to another, I am not.

But never mind, what you think is what you think.

So Jack if you didn’t call into question the integrity of the Italian national team, then I don’t think there would be a problem, but you did do that and that has caused the issue. I don’t think you meant to do that, I think you went too far inadvertently due to frustration.

Yep. Guilty. I still can't quite believe it's been made into a drama, people say far worse things (and I've heard far more cruel things said). I don't sit here and think every Italian match has a bunged referee - as I said, I know some people will think that, and the referee was so terrible (which was the point I was trying to make, not that I think Italy are a nation of cheats but that the referee was appauling, he blowed his whistle more times than Paris Hilton has blown this week).

From a footballing standpoint I think most people would agree it is going to be a lot more exciting at EURO 2008 to see France and Italy qualify rather than if it was, for example, England and Scotland. So I'm just hurt that I can think that, and say that, and be called a bloody racist. (And now I'm going to get English and Scottish guys calling me racist, so I think I'll just leave this thread for a bit now...)

 

[gerd]

My friend lo zio, my friend jack bauer...let's stop this quarrel.
Do a litle search and you will see that a couple of days ago Vanzandt and i had the same sort of thing...i made the same sort of mistake as jack did...generalisations.
Jack is not a racist lo zio, but (just as i did) he used the same reasoning as racists do all the time: generalisations...just like me he wasn't aware that he did something that was outrageous in the eyes of other people.

I apologized to Vanzandt jack...it could help...lo zio is a great intelligent person and you've hurt him...i'm sure if you sent him a nice PM, it will all be water under the bridge...

My dear friend lo zio...congratulations on Italy's qualification. i never saw the match, but in the end i'm glad Itay made it...sometimes football isn't fair because Italy, France and Scotland deserve to qualify for the Euro Cup.

Don't blame jack too much, he is a nice guy too...

 

[Chris Davies]

I've made my apologies above Gerd but it's unfortunate that I've now got a racist tag around my neck thanks to expressing my anger at an awful referee...

 

[gerd]

lo zio is intelligent enough to see that you made a mistake, but we all know that you are not a racist...
It's all cultural or a language thing and when people of another nationality say something that is stereotyping one becomes furious (boring Belgium, Belgium the paradise for paedophiles,...)...
That's what makes internet diffcult and interesting: talking with people of other nationalities with their own sensibilities...

 

[Plan M]

At the end of the day, Italy were the better team. Scotland should of beat Georgia. Italy had a perfect goal dissalowed in the first half. Scotland's goal was blatantly offside. Swings and roundabouts . . .

I really felt sorry for Scotland yesterday. I was wondering what it was like to be a Scot after the match, especially with the Israel result coming through an hour or so later. The Scots HATE us as it is, that was just salt in the wounds. Football can change so quickly it's unreal.

 

[lo zio]

there was no quarrel at all. neither i put any kind of "tags" upon anybody.... never.

sometimes i say stupid things, but this doesn't make me a stupid.
i'm not putting a "bloody racist tag" upon u jack for writing this....

Shame, referee was absolutely terrible, seemed like either he was Italian or bunged (and this is Italy we're talking about).

...
or this..

And unfortunately every time an Italian team is in a match refereed by a tosser like that one in the near future, eyebrows are always going to be raised...

i try not to judge people just by one post, and as i wrote before, i was surprised be seeing such a shortsighted and offensive comment coming from jack, who is a poster i always admired.... if anybody else would have written that post, i would have just ignored him.....
but considering jack a smart guy i just couldn't....

neither i went "furious" for his post.... i'd say frustrated or sad would be the most appropriate words. i'm not that touchy and it takes some feat to get me angry. i just felt it was necessary to remark how the ref didn't help out italy at all yesterday... actually i'd say the opposite.
a spanish friend told me yesterday "damn mate, i just saw the match.... mejuto gonzalez really hates u guys. if it wasn't for that ridiculous mistake at the end of the game, italy would have been robbed"....
then this morning i come here and i read the exact opposite.

anyway guys i have to say i noticed people on this community are a little too "touchy" about the word "racism"...
unless my english is worst than i thought, racism is a discriminatory behaviour, based on prejudices.... is not really that terrific insult.... it's just about expressing unfair sentences.... and honestly if this ain't an unfair sentence...

...and this is Italy we're talking about...

then i must have some serious understanding problems.
but this doesn't mean i think u're a racist, jack. i just think u wrote a very shortsighted comment and i remarked it.... i honestly don't find this insulting or offensive....

yesterday a very beautiful match has been played.... by both sides. i have to admit i'm really sorry for scotland, as i think they really deserved to qualify.... and i think they would have make it in another group. they were just unlucky, as they ended in a terrific group.
but still they played some nice football. with their determination and passion they were able to get some awesome result this year, and it's not a coincidence if they are so close to italy and france, talking about points.

yesterday too they didn't play bad at all. they did almost everything they could to win the match.... but unfortunately they faced a great italy (the best italy i saw this year) who was able to easily control the game for most of the match (about 75 mins). and by saying this i'm also replying to your question about my opinions about the game, Milanista (but later or tomorrow i'll try to do some deeper analysis of the game).

blaming the ref for yesterday's result is such a low exercise as the result was clearely deserved and the ref damaged italy much more than scotland.

just one little advice Jack. if anytime the ref will do some wrong calls during an italy's game, u will think the match is fixed.... then u shouldn't watch italy's games anymore.... as the refs will always do some wrong calls.... even the greatests.

no need to apologise anyway... i didn't get hurt at all by your sentences.... i just thought somebody should point out how unfair those sentences were, that's all.

 

[Chris Davies]

just one little advice Jack. if anytime the ref will do some wrong calls during an italy's game, u will think the match is fixed.... then u shouldn't watch italy's games anymore.... as the refs will always do some wrong calls.... even the greatests.

I don't actually think that, as I said before it's British humour (although apparently at least one Brit didn't get it either) to say something direct that is so obviously and almost literally unbelievable that you realise it's something you're saying to make fun of the referee rather than actually believing what you're saying. Like when I said "he blew the whistle more times than Paris Hilton blows in a week" - I don't actually believe that somewhere in the world, as I type right now, Paris Hilton is giving oral sex to somebody. But that's not what you focus on (or not what you're supposed to focus on, anyway). It's just something that you use to say "look how terrible the referee was", it's not supposed to be read the other way around with the referee comment disregarded. I can see why you were offended and I apologise, but I hope you can see what I'm talking about. If I say something quickly then I raise a fuss like this, if I say something over ten pages like this then it gets disregarded, so I can't win no matter what I do...

Italy played the better football and that's why they won. I was just pissed off with constant fouls for nothing. I didn't even mention the goals allowed/disallowed stuff, all I was talking about was one bad foul that was ignored and the constant stopping of the game for everything else that was no way a foul, never. I see that kind of refereeing at Tranmere every week and I can't stand it, it totally ruins the flow of the game. My two biggest hates in football, referees who interpret the rules twenty different ways and blow every time a player farts, and divers who are going to turn the game of football into a farce while FIFA sits on and does fuck-all about it.

Rant over.

 

[Plan M]

I don't actually think that, as I said before it's British humour (although apparently at least one Brit didn't get it either)

I got it Jack!

Anyway, can we all just have cream cakes, tea and just get on?

 

[ALAIN]

I dont understand how Scottish fans can say they were robbed. I personally saw a much better Italy. Scotland had their 2 or 3 good chances, but Italy was constantly creating chances and the quality difference was there. It should have been 2-0 for us at one point as well.

Italy was the better team,Fact.they feel robbed cos of the last free kick.it 's just a shame italy won like that

 

[jambotommy]

Congrats to Italy.

Better team won.

Good luck to Italy and France in Switzerland 2008.

 

[jambotommy]

Italy was the better team,Fact.they feel robbed cos of the last free kick.it 's just a shame italy won like that

Our goal was clearly offside,whilst Italy scored a perfectly good goal that was chopped off.

Apart from the freekick decision at the end, I thought the referee had a decent enough game.

 

[ALAIN]

Our goal was clearly offside,whilst Italy scored a perfectly good goal that was chopped off.

Apart from the freekick decision at the end, I thought the referee had a decent enough game.

yeah but the last free kick was the more important decision,it's why the Scots feel bad!but ask any Scots fan they will all say that Italy was the better team

 

[Cloud1863]

I dont understand how Scottish fans can say they were robbed. I personally saw a much better Italy. Scotland had their 2 or 3 good chances, but Italy was constantly creating chances and the quality difference was there. It should have been 2-0 for us at one point as well.

Scotland like to feel robbed, they have been robbed of qualifying for the knockouts of every major tournament they have qualified for.

I talked to my partners dad and he felt Scotland didn't deserve to lose. He is a bright guy full of football knowledge and can usually see sense but he also can fall foul of ignorance once in a while.

By no way did Italy control the match and to be fair both teams had chances, but the result was a fair one. I cant believe the naivety of some people, constant attack on the ref for a terrible decision at the end but was the decisions to disallow a perfectly good goal and then give another that wasn't just not a "terrible decision".

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11966_2890088,00.html

Just found this, this is a joke. If this were to be done we wouldn't have a ref in this world that wasn't punished for a mistake. Maybe we could replay games again if the refs makes a mistake, maybe Scotland can still qualify, no wait a sec the result is done so get over it.

@ Lo zio good post.

 

[Milanista]

My solution - real time video panel that can review decisions like in the NBA or NHL.

 

[matherto]

I dont understand how Scottish fans can say they were robbed. I personally saw a much better Italy. Scotland had their 2 or 3 good chances, but Italy was constantly creating chances and the quality difference was there. It should have been 2-0 for us at one point as well.

Italy weren't constantly creating chances at all, both teams had near enough equal amounts, especially for that long period in the second half when the game was stretched (that was actually mostly Scotland in possession). They were the better team though, noone will doubt that, and they did have the quality to win the match.

However, the reason Scottish fans can say they were robbed is because they WERE robbed. That final decision was seriously the strangest decision I've probably ever seen. The Italian player barges into the Scottish defender, bundles him over, legs get tangled and the Italian player goes over as well, and for some completely unknown reason, the ref gives a free-kick to Italy, subsequently, they go on to score, and knock Scotland out.

 

[joe]

well i dont know what all the fuss is all about...that spanish ref made many mistakes ..like disallowing a clean goal di natales goal was a good goal italy should of been up 2 zip--..the scots should open there eyes and go view the replays of the game scotlands equalising goal was clearly offside..scotlands coach metions nothing about this he was too busy complaing about how italy scored there second goal.so lets be fair ..scotland wasint robbed..there goal was offside

 

[Milanista]

They were the better team though, noone will doubt that

I dont agree with you there. We had better patches of possession and should have been up 2-0. They played well, but apart from McFadden's missed 1 on 1 their other chances were nothing more than Italy's chances. But I dont think Scotland deserved to win or played a lot better than Italy. I think the most they deserved that game was a draw. The way we won it may have been dodgy, but it was all there for us to win that game. The poor referee decisions cancelled each other out, just at the wrong time.

People just interpret the match differently I guess.

 

[joe]

I dont agree with you there. We had better patches of possession and should have been up 2-0. They played well, but apart from McFadden's missed 1 on 1 their other chances were nothing more than Italy's chances. But I dont think Scotland deserved to win or played a lot better than Italy. I think the most they deserved that game was a draw. The way we won it may have been dodgy, but it was all there for us to win that game. The poor referee decisions cancelled each other out, just at the wrong time.

People just interpret the match differently I guess.

agree with you scotland played well but not better than italy..after sccotlands equaliser things picked up alittle for scotland.but italy controlled the match..very true scotland deserved only a tie from the match.and thats even being kind as there equaliser was clearly offside.. plus when they had there chances to score scotland couldint finish it..not really a matter of People just interpreting the match with different opinions ..fact is put on the vcr go back to scotlands goal OFFFFSIDEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ..BYE BYE :8):

 

[lo zio]

ok guys what about moving on now? i didn't meant to start a drama, neither i felt offended by jack in any way. there is a treshold between (strongly) disagreeing and getting offended.
as i already wrote this episode won't make me change my (good) opinion about jack.

scotland wasn't robbed at all. and we also have to point out that no scottish fan is saying it actually. Jambotommy just showed us what fair play means, by congratulating to the winners, despite the terrific game ending (congrats to u mate :applause: it would be nice to hear your views about the match .
another ref maybe wouldn't have done the mistake gonzales did by reversing that foul at the end of the match......... but probably he wouldn't have done the other mistakes even (wich means that the match would have ended 0-2)..... or maybe he could have done some other wrong calls or misinterpretations which would have effected the game eitherway.

each country in europe has his own refereeing style.... and even if we consider the refs of one country, well they still have their own differences, talking about their refereeing style, theyr approach to the game, their respect for the flow of the game, their ego (some refs like to be the main actors in the scene).....
there's just one thing they have in common; they all do mistakes, wich is pretty obvious.
but refs mistakes are part of the game and they must be accepted, exactly as the players mistakes (tackles missed, wrong passes, fouls...).

mejuto gonzales strongly influenced the game yesterday with his calls, but in the end he didn't effect the result as (as all of u are saying) the better team on the pitch won.
end of the story.

moving to more interesting things...

By no way did Italy control the match and to be fair both teams had chances....

i was quite worried about this game honestly. scotland are a good team, in the last 15 years they made some huuuge steps foward, talking about the players technical abilities and their tactical imprint became much more "sophisticated".
10 years ago scottish clubs realised that they had not enough money to fullfill their desires on the market, so they became much more "penny-wise" talking about buyng foreign players and, most important, they started focusing their attention to their youth schools (just take a look at celtic and rangers youth teams)
nowadays they're reaping the fruits of their own work, and, as i already wrote, is not a coincidence if in the last year, scotland achieved those great results.

a very wise aspect in macleish's national team is that they play "their football". they do what they know how to do.... and they do it fucking well; a containing (and smart, with barry) midfield and flying fullbacks on the sides. they have a more than good keeper and i striker i really love (miller).

italy always suffers highly paced teams, and theese guys have a terrific pace and a striker who flies like a bee along the entire offensive line (miller..thank god he almost didn't play yesterday).
moreover they were playing one of the most important matches of their history, on their own turf, supported and (litterally) "lifted" by an amazing crowd.

so u will understand why i was really worried about the result. i thought we would have suffered their rhythm for the whole game. i thought scotland fullbacks could overwhelm our 3 men midfield, and i was sure it would have been a tough day for our cbs........

instead gattuso, pirlo and ambro were just awesome. they partecièated to both phases of the game (disrupting the opponents plays and producing football) with an outstanding coolness.... even pirlo was awesome in covering, wich is something u wouldn't expect from him. they didn't look scared by the atmospehere at all, and that's something that really surprised me.

barzagli finally showed what he always shows when he plays for palermo... in the past italy matches he always looked a bit too overwrought by wearing the national jersey (or by the international scenario, i don't know) and he did never expressed his real ability. yesterday he was just monumental.

scotland was the team wich HAD to win. they were playing at their own home and they had to dictate the tempo of the game....... but they clearely didn't as italy was really calm and cool on the pitch. the azzurri hid the ball to scottish with a wise passing game, and they didn't try to play scottish footie (wich would have been a suicide move).
in the first 15 mins scotland looked pretty confused by italy's passing game and they didn't even try to press us (which really surprised me).... this allowed us to keep the ball in their own midfield with no pressure... and this brought us to create 3 easy scoring chances (the first one was toni's goal).

after the first 15 mins scotland shacked the fear away and started playing their football, but still italy didn't collapsed, trying to follow the scots pace, as we calmly distributed the ball (at the end of the first half italy had 52% of possession, wich is pretty unusual as italy is not a teams that holds the ball for much time).
in the first half scotland's only scoring chances were born from corner kicks, wich tells a lot.... we almost kept them harmless.
even after our goal we didn't sit down, but we kept holding the ball to avoid the scots dictating the tempo of the game.

at the beginning of the second half the story didn't change. italy was controlling the game (by saying "controlling" i don't mean to say they dominated the game, Cloud. i mean to say they contained the scots... they ...."controlled" them :mrgreen.

but after the first 20 minutes of the game the situation started to change. the italians started to feel heavy on their legs. they started to feel tired. if any of u guys ever played on a wet pitch, u will know it's fucking tiring.... after 60minutes it becomes hard even staying on your foots (and moreover a technically sophisticated team as italy suffer a wet and fast pitch much more than a team like scotland)..... if u're not used to theese kind of pitches, it becomes really hard to play for 90 minutes.
another thing: i guess our players started also to feel worried about a scottish goal during the end of the match.... and this kind of worries can litterally freeze your legs.

the scottish instead weren't tired at all... actually i'd say they felt italy was lowering its guard, and gained courage.
the situation became every minute worse, and from the 75th min on, italy almost disappeared from the pitch and had a lot of work in trying to contain the scottish pressure.

waiting for some scottish opinions now

p.s.

@ Lo zio good post.

your appreciation is something i can just be happy about, as i always like to read your posts, mate

i also would like to thank Vanzandt for expressing my views in a (much) better way. sometimes it gets hard to articulate your points in a a foreign language
and thats probably the reason of this silly drama. once again i wasn't offended at all by jack's words, neither i would ever think he's racist just coz he used a silly generalisation for once.... me too, i sometimes apply racists\discriminating logics to my arguments, but this doesn't make me a racist at all. and i'm glad when someone helps me realizing it.
so there's no problem at all, jack (at least for me). as i already wrote, i decided to reply just cos i have a very good opinion about u. if anybody else would have written that post, i would have just ignored it (as i often do:mrgreen
:cheers:

 

[gomito#10]

My solution - real time video panel that can review decisions like in the NBA or NHL.

well mate it works in those leagues, but it slows down the game, and you will notice this much more in a football match. NBA and NHL has tons of stopage of time... so were used to breaks between play, so when they review they usually go to comerical(which is normal) but i do think any goaline decision should be up for tv review, but not offsides.. unless you implemented a challenge system. IN the NFL a coach gets i think 2 or 3 challenges per half... so if they think they have been robbed they can use a challenge to have the officials look at the video... they certainly need to do something after that spurs united game a few years ago when pedro mendes clearley scored but the ref never saw it cross the line...

 

[fd1972uk]

It was a valiant performacne, but not to be. To be honest I agree with JB and the ref, he's did this before with Scotland and Celtic and IMO he's in there to favour the big boys.

I ain't gonna say he didn't have poor decisions on both sides, Italy's offside goal cancelled I thought was actually handball, but looks like the linesman never gave it for that, Scotland's goal was offside, Scotland should have had a penalty and Italians where falling around everytime someone went near them. Milanista, for you to even suggest that there was a resemblance of a foul for Italy for the second goal is absurd.

Anyways, it wasn't to be and even a draw I thought wouldn't have been enough, although it would've kept us going.


Scotland have done well though in a hugely tough section and should be proud.


FD

 

[lo zio]

he's did this before with Scotland and Celtic and IMO he's in there to favour the big boys.

last italy's matches refereed by mejuto gonzales;
italia - croatia = 0 - 2
italia - danimarca = 0 - 0
polonia - italia = 3 - 1
italia - turchia = 1 - 1
galles - Italia = 2 - 1

croatia, denmark, poland, turkey, galles..... they don't really look like "big guys" to me..... especially if compared to italy....
sometimes numbers speak for themselves....

....and Italians where falling around everytime someone went near them......

got to admit i was pretty surprised still nodody talked about the "italians divers".......
thanks FD for filling in the gap :roll::mrgreen:

now we just need somebody to say that some italian supporters caused some troubles in glasgow... then the picture will be perfect :mrgreen:

 

[foxtrot]

The Scots HATE us as it is...

That's not entirely true. We don't hate English people because they're English. It's the constant media arrogance that comes with each tournament. I would like to see England qualify and do well but I'd like to see the offices of The Sun and other red-tops burn down.