Poll: How much would you like to see PES fully licensed? Time to stop the madness...

[bertkamp16]

I'm in the process of buying a next-gen console (don't know if I'm going PS3 or XBox 360 yet) and I am seriously giving FIFA 09 serious thought. I haven't played FIFA since I changed over to PES/WE after FIFA 2000. Like I've mentioned in an earlier post:

"I preferred PES, and let's be honest, until the last couple of iterations, FIFA's gameplay was not on par with PES. FIFA is now equal in gameplay and I am sick and goddamn tired of jumping through a million flaming hoops to get PES updated with all the uniforms and leagues. I have been doing it for years and it's time to stop. As a consumer, it is your duty to exercise your freedom of choice, that's what drives the free market. Competition is the heart of capitalism. PES has rested on its laurels and it won't get better until people start talking with their wallets. I guarantee you, a mass exodus to FIFA this year is the SUREST way to slap some sense into Konami. I'm not a PES fanboy, but I supported PES because I just want to play the best footy game I can get my hands. Now, it seems, PES has dropped the ball, and FIFA has picked it up."

Konami has made a fool of me for the last time. I refuse to do their job for them any more. I am absolutely certain that until PES fans start to make the mass exodus to FIFA, and give PES a season or two off, they will NEVER get licenses. If they know that millions of people are going to buy the game and then patch it to get what they want, why bother getting licenses?? I refuse to play another season with my beloved Arsenal being North London.

Guys, I GUARANTEE YOU, if enough fans give PES a season off, they will be fully licensed in a year or two. What they are doing is a scam. TALK WITH YOUR WALLET. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

 

[joeryan]

Re: Poll: How much would you like to see PES fully licensed? Time to stop the madness

I'd rather see the resources go to development.

As long as the edit mode allows you to edit everything and make kits and faces exact. They should have much more room to add teams, players, etc.

 

[oFifa09o]

Re: Poll: How much would you like to see PES fully licensed? Time to stop the madness

The only REAL hope for pes series is to ditch ALL licenses...they cant get the full EPL...no la liga...no Bundesliga....anyway...and their decision to burn all that cash on the useless CL license is laughable...thats why they did so small progress from PES2008 to pes2009....because instead of spending money on the game code they spend it on the useless licenses....

 

[Nick Cave]

Re: Poll: How much would you like to see PES fully licensed? Time to stop the madness

Fully licenced is not going to happen EA will make sure of that...
The only way that could happen is if the licences become non exclusive...

 

[H4RDY]

Re: Poll: How much would you like to see PES fully licensed? Time to stop the madness

Licenses are not the be-all and end-all. The thing which should be top of Seabass's agenda is taking this game to the next level in a big way.

We need a next-gen game, this beginning to get very frustrating.

 

[bertkamp16]

Re: Poll: How much would you like to see PES fully licensed? Time to stop the madness

Regardless of the license issue, at this point in time, FIFA is now the superior game as it now has the gameplay to go with the visuals and presentation that PES/WE can't match. I've been jumping through the ridiculous patching/modding hoops for years because Pro Evo's gameplay was so much better than FIFA. That is simply no longer a case that can be made. This year, I'm talking with my money. I wish PES the greatest of luck in trying to win me back for next season.

 

[ehsan_c]

Re: Poll: How much would you like to see PES fully licensed? Time to stop the madness

Who cares about licenses. I enjoy editing the teams my self and adding the sponsors. If you ain't bothered you can always download a option file which has it already done. There are currently more important issues regarding pes than sponsors.

 

[DavidBushell]

Re: Poll: How much would you like to see PES fully licensed? Time to stop the madness

what a stupid thread

 

[bertkamp16]

Re: Poll: How much would you like to see PES fully licensed? Time to stop the madness

Who cares about licenses. I enjoy editing the teams my self and adding the sponsors. If you ain't bothered you can always download a option file which has it already done. There are currently more important issues regarding pes than sponsors.

There's a difference. The FIFA community makes patches for fun, not out of necessity like the PES community. I can definitely attest to the fact there there are bigger problems plaguing PES than the lack of licenses...like the fact that they let FIFA catch up in gameplay and gave away their only competitive advantage....

 

[bertkamp16]

Re: Poll: How much would you like to see PES fully licensed? Time to stop the madness

what a stupid thread

Well, so much for intelligent discourse....

 

[SaintScott]

Re: Poll: How much would you like to see PES fully licensed? Time to stop the madness

Well, so much for intelligent discourse....

I would imagine the gist of his argument was "they can't get all the licenses even if they want to and I doubt a significant reduction in the income from the current game would assist them in having more money to pay for them with".

That's what I think, even if it's not what Mr Bushell was thinking. That and "I'd rather have a good editor than licenses anyway, especially if they don't use them accurately like EA don't".

 

[Zidane87]

Re: Poll: How much would you like to see PES fully licensed? Time to stop the madness

id love it .... but lets be honest people really ever use the top 3-4 teams from each league in the europe.... which are pretty much covered in this years tragedy (no chelsea or arsenal i know)

what id really love to see is a big collaboration of ea a konami working on a footy title......dunno what the title would be..... football mania or sum shit lol

 

[bertkamp16]

Re: Poll: How much would you like to see PES fully licensed? Time to stop the madness

I would imagine the gist of his argument was "they can't get all the licenses even if they want to and I doubt a significant reduction in the income from the current game would assist them in having more money to pay for them with".

That's what I think, even if it's not what Mr Bushell was thinking. That and "I'd rather have a good editor than licenses anyway, especially if they don't use them accurately like EA don't".

If that's what bushell meant to say, he should do a better job of articulating his thoughts and opinions.

 

[EatonTJ]

Re: Poll: How much would you like to see PES fully licensed? Time to stop the madness

I'm in the process of buying a next-gen console (don't know if I'm going PS3 or XBox 360 yet) and I am seriously giving FIFA 09 serious thought. I haven't played FIFA since I changed over to PES/WE after FIFA 2000. Like I've mentioned in an earlier post:

"I preferred PES, and let's be honest, until the last couple of iterations, FIFA's gameplay was not on par with PES. FIFA is now equal in gameplay and I am sick and goddamn tired of jumping through a million flaming hoops to get PES updated with all the uniforms and leagues. I have been doing it for years and it's time to stop. As a consumer, it is your duty to exercise your freedom of choice, that's what drives the free market. Competition is the heart of capitalism. PES has rested on its laurels and it won't get better until people start talking with their wallets. I guarantee you, a mass exodus to FIFA this year is the SUREST way to slap some sense into Konami. I'm not a PES fanboy, but I supported PES because I just want to play the best footy game I can get my hands. Now, it seems, PES has dropped the ball, and FIFA has picked it up."

Konami has made a fool of me for the last time. I refuse to do their job for them any more. I am absolutely certain that until PES fans start to make the mass exodus to FIFA, and give PES a season or two off, they will NEVER get licenses. If they know that millions of people are going to buy the game and then patch it to get what they want, why bother getting licenses?? I refuse to play another season with my beloved Arsenal being North London.

Guys, I GUARANTEE YOU, if enough fans give PES a season off, they will be fully licensed in a year or two. What they are doing is a scam. TALK WITH YOUR WALLET. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

100% agree.

Now that FIFA gameplay is on par (or better) with PES than the obvious choice of where to spend my money is FIFA. The extra effort that EA puts into FIFA to make authentic commentary, kits, chants, stadiums, etc. has earned my money.

I too am tired of having to work around Konami's haphazard licensing with patches, modchips, dvd burners, kitserver, and whatever else and still ending up with some other built in deficiency because of Konami's ineptly structured "Master League".

I highly doubt I'll be spending money on PES this year, even though it may still be the better multiplayer game (I'm undecided)... in fact, PES won't be seeing any of my money until they finally get around to making their game compete with EA for a realistic level of authenticity.

 

[spursrule]

Re: Poll: How much would you like to see PES fully licensed? Time to stop the madness

Licenses did not matter then, but with HD graphics and everything standing out Fifa shows you do need it to create an authentic game.

On the other hand I just want Konami to improve the gameplay so it is more realistic and fun like it was in the late ps1/ early ps2 days.

IMO they should go platform exclusive from next year, ps3 only. It is the only way we will get a better game imo, porting to three platforms is probably affecting them.

 

[ibu2003]

Re: Poll: How much would you like to see PES fully licensed? Time to stop the madness

as much as some would say licenses don't matter and a way of abating fanboy fervour. We do really need fully licensed leagues, it adds to the whole experience when a game you get is fully updated out of the box and there are proper team names and kits etc.

Still if the final package is terrible, no license can save it.

But Pro is a series in need of fully licensed league modes, kits, players, teams etc.

 

[Shazam!]

Re: Poll: How much would you like to see PES fully licensed? Time to stop the madness

I think games should only use licensed teams. If a team refuses to give a licence, fuck 'em.

That goes for FIFA as well.

 

[bulldrig]

Re: Poll: How much would you like to see PES fully licensed? Time to stop the madness

i don't really care that much about licences. i'd rather see that they'd fix the gameplay.

 

[bertkamp16]

Re: Poll: How much would you like to see PES fully licensed? Time to stop the madness

My absolute main issue in all this that little by little, FIFA has slowly eroded away PES's competitive advantage as far as gameplay goes. Really, that's all PES ever had going for it and it was the absolute main reason why I continued to support it over the years. There was a point, 4 or 5 years ago when PES was light years ahead of FIFA. FIFA was beautiful, as its always been, but arcade-like. Licenses meant nothing to me if there was no substance. I was more than happy to patch PES as it was a vastly superior product. I was more than happy to jump through the hoops, burn cds and dvds, buy modding equipment, max drives, swap discs, flip tops, gamesharks....

Now, after all these years, I'm still playing with North London and FIFA has finally caught up, something I knew was inevitable. I have no allegiance to either game whatsoever. I think fanboys are silly and ultimately working against their own self-interest without knowing it. My money always went to the game I deemed worthy of it and this year will be no different.

 

[bertkamp16]

Re: Poll: How much would you like to see PES fully licensed? Time to stop the madness

i don't really care that much about licences. i'd rather see that they'd fix the gameplay.

Though I must add, that I think its obvious that I continued to supported PES even when FIFA was close, but not yet equal on gameplay, like FIFA 08 and 07. Gameplay IS the most important factor, without a doubt. But I won't support PES when it now obvious that FIFA have the overall advantage.

 

[Cammey]

Re: Poll: How much would you like to see PES fully licensed? Time to stop the madness

It's a shame EA have stolen the Untucked shirts, ball sound, and ball physics license too.

 

[dave_walker22]

Re: Poll: How much would you like to see PES fully licensed? Time to stop the madness

I have a few points I want to make:

1) I love how in the first post bertkamp talks of capitalism, competition and a FREE MARKET, yet the whole licensing problem in the first place is because of EA's exclusive license MONOPOLY (the complete opposite of a free market)! If you think that boycotting PES is going to magically make Konami get all the licenses, you're very naive.
2) Why is everyone's solution always to 'cross over' to FIFA? Why do you have to buy either?
3) I don't actually disagree with the theme of this thread - 'vote with your wallet'. I've said this many a time myself to those who do nothing but complain about PES yet buy it anyway. But in a 'free market' everybody should act on their own behalf and make up their own minds; threads such as this often inflame and come across as propagandist. You're not Braveheart. Some people find it insulting when it looks like they're being told what to do..
4) bertkamp you've posted 5 times in your own thread saying exactly the same thing. You've made your point. You argue that 'FIFA's gameplay is now superior to PES' like it's unquestionable FACT rather than personal opinion. If you've had enough with PES and want to act on it, that's your prerogative. But please grant everyone else the same freedom and courtesy rather than trying to persuade them round to your way of thinking on an internet forum - it looks desperate.
5) Something else I want to add, going back to the licenses. It is classic corporate strategy that EA always have their games fully licensed. This way, customers are forced to shell out every year if they want a game with all the new kits/teams etc. Consistently good gameplay, along with good editing options mean that many people can (and do) still enjoy playing PES5 or PES6 - free from the pressure of buying the latest update every year.

 

[fareed1983]

Re: Poll: How much would you like to see PES fully licensed? Time to stop the madness

im not too bothered about the kits, its keeping the teams up to date without it reverting to default teams when playing online which bugs me. i mean fifa 09 has a weekly online update of all their teams stats - which i think is personally a bit too much, but an update every transfer window would be good so all the teams have the right players. in the demo robinho was still at real madrid, i hope this doesnt happen when the retail version comes out.

 

[Chimps-with-quiffs]

Re: Poll: How much would you like to see PES fully licensed? Time to stop the madness

Why do people blame Konami for having less licencing than Fifa?

It's really not up to them, Fifa has a deal with the authorities of football and its their will to destroy competition through there ability to invest more and the greed of the relevant world football leagues, that makes any competitor's job very difficult in most sports simulations.

Despite having this for over a decade, Fifa has only just started actually making decent games and this is as a direct result of Konami producing games that were so much better than their, people were able to look past the licensing.

If you play PES on the pc you have nothing to complain about as lack of licencing has led to people learning to edit the game and creating arguably better strips, chants, pitches, balls and boots than Fifa has.

What Konami needs to do is keep ahead on game play and make sure that the editing on the PS3 and 360 is of the same level that people can reach on the PC and in particular, allow kit imports for all teams and perhaps in the future the ability to create an unlimited amount of teams and leagues.

Don't blame Konami for licencing as their hands are tied by others greed and if it wasn't for them, Fifa would still be a shocking representation of football.

 

[bertkamp16]

Re: Poll: How much would you like to see PES fully licensed? Time to stop the madness

I have a few points I want to make:

1) I love how in the first post bertkamp talks of capitalism, competition and a FREE MARKET, yet the whole licensing problem in the first place is because of EA's exclusive license MONOPOLY (the complete opposite of a free market)! If you think that boycotting PES is going to magically make Konami get all the licenses, you're very naive.
2) Why is everyone's solution always to 'cross over' to FIFA? Why do you have to buy either?
3) I don't actually disagree with the theme of this thread - 'vote with your wallet'. I've said this many a time myself to those who do nothing but complain about PES yet buy it anyway. But in a 'free market' everybody should act on their own behalf and make up their own minds; threads such as this often inflame and come across as propagandist. You're not Braveheart. Some people find it insulting when it looks like they're being told what to do..
4) bertkamp you've posted 5 times in your own thread saying exactly the same thing. You've made your point. You argue that 'FIFA's gameplay is now superior to PES' like it's unquestionable FACT rather than personal opinion. If you've had enough with PES and want to act on it, that's your prerogative. But please grant everyone else the same freedom and courtesy rather than trying to persuade them round to your way of thinking on an internet forum - it looks desperate.
5) Something else I want to add, going back to the licenses. It is classic corporate strategy that EA always have their games fully licensed. This way, customers are forced to shell out every year if they want a game with all the new kits/teams etc. Consistently good gameplay, along with good editing options mean that many people can (and do) still enjoy playing PES5 or PES6 - free from the pressure of buying the latest update every year.

Worthy debate! Where do I begin...

1) I'm not suggesting that Konami will "magically" get anything. Real naiveity is discrediting the idea that PES losing major market share wouldn't light a fire under their a**.

2) And I'm naive? There's Coke and there's Pepsi, you go drink a Shasta if you'd like, that crap tastes like piss. So unless you're starting a new game to compete with FIFA and PES, this point is a non-starter. A duopoly is a duopoly.

3) I think people that think like you do would actually take this personally enough to be "insulted," but for the most part: a)my end of the poll is landsliding your end of the poll and b)I don't see anyone else here being "insulted" People are more than welcome to disagree with me. Wouldn't be much of a forum if everyone agreed. But being "insulted" might be a bit over the top...

4) Each of my posts has either refined my thoughts or been a response to someone who dropped a post. I encourage discourse. Like I said, I've been a fan of both games, so if someone can make an intelligent and well thought out argument for sticking to PES, I beg you, change my mind. There are several people here that disagree with me. More power to them. Your arguments, though, are filled based in ad hominem attacks and histrionics.

5) And the case isn't the same for FIFA? Are you saying that there aren't people that edit old FIFA games and just keep playing them? Back to my earlier point. The FIFA community patches patches almost completely for fun and the PES community almost completely out of necessity. Again, another non-starter.

 

[bertkamp16]

Re: Poll: How much would you like to see PES fully licensed? Time to stop the madness

Why do people blame Konami for having less licencing than Fifa?

It's really not up to them, Fifa has a deal with the authorities of football and its their will to destroy competition through there ability to invest more and the greed of the relevant world football leagues, that makes any competitor's job very difficult in most sports simulations.

Despite having this for over a decade, Fifa has only just started actually making decent games and this is as a direct result of Konami producing games that were so much better than their, people were able to look past the licensing.

If you play PES on the pc you have nothing to complain about as lack of licencing has led to people learning to edit the game and creating arguably better strips, chants, pitches, balls and boots than Fifa has.

What Konami needs to do is keep ahead on game play and make sure that the editing on the PS3 and 360 is of the same level that people can reach on the PC and in particular, allow kit imports for all teams and perhaps in the future the ability to create an unlimited amount of teams and leagues.

Don't blame Konami for licencing as their hands are tied by others greed and if it wasn't for them, Fifa would still be a shocking representation of football.

You make some excellent points, Chimps. I agree that EA do everything they can to keep the competion down, but that's the nature of business. Konami's hands are tied to a certain extent but I think that everyone will agree that Konami, to their detriment, rely very, very heavily on the PES editing community.

 

[(IRE)Wolfman]

Re: Poll: How much would you like to see PES fully licensed? Time to stop the madness

It is all very well for EA to say that FIFA is making great strides, but general opinion suggests that they still have a long way to go before they can match the intuitive and absorbing gameplay of Pro Evolution Soccer... That is not to say that we are resting on our laurels, though. PES 2009 has a vast number of new additions that elevate it far beyond anything anyone else is doing.

Then 'Seabass' said he'd "seriously" think about using EA's FIFA engine, if the company offered Konami the chance to use.

 

[bonjovifan]

Re: Poll: How much would you like to see PES fully licensed? Time to stop the madness

Half the the fun of PES is edit mode/PC editing.

 

[cappz8]

Re: Poll: How much would you like to see PES fully licensed? Time to stop the madness

...FIFA is now the superior game...

are you sure that in FIFA player attributes really do play such a role like in PES 2009?
are you sure that FIFA's shooting is as much fun as in PES 2009?
are you sure that FIFA's ball physics and passing system is on par with PES 2009?

if so, congratulations: you just won a free couple of brand new glasses (to look at the tv screen better or something)...

 

[Chris Davies]

Re: Poll: How much would you like to see PES fully licensed? Time to stop the madness

Half the the fun of PES is edit mode/PC editing.

Not for me; the day that FIFA became a decent game I was relieved that I could start playing the game as soon as I put the disc in. "Fixing" a game for three months, then playing it to find yourself really disappointed that hardly anything's changed, is not my idea of fun. I understand that it is for some but certainly not for me.