PGA Tour 2K21 [PS4/XB1/PC]

after the first weekend i can already see some users selling their copies. price is around 45 euro (PS4 version) at ebay kleinanzeigen (local german ebay).
under 40 bucks inlcuding shipping and i might not resist. :D
"damn you" @Chris Davies ! ;)
:LOVE:
 
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Those kinds of sites (G2A, Kinguin, Eneba etc.) often allow people to sell keys purchased will stolen cards, which is why you can see ridiculous prices on them lower than any official marketplace. Those purchases could end up getting charged back and the developer/publisher gets nothing, if anything it costs them money to investigate these transactions. Sometimes the keys obtained with these fraudulent transactions get revoked but that's up to the developers, some let it slide because they would get the backlash for revoking them.

Either way, if you care about the games industry then you should try to avoid these key resellers. I'd rather pay a few quid more and know most of it is actually going to the studios who produced it rather than helping scumbags profit from credit card fraud. Many developers outright say they'd rather you pirated their games than get keys from these marketplaces.

https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/developers-tell-people-to-pirate-their-games-instead-of-using-g2a/
 
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Played this recently. It's better than the last game but that isn't vsaying much. Short game is poor again. Chipping around the greens feels terrible. Commentary is poor. Atmosphere is sterile. Poor use if the PGA license. Poor character models.
 
i stumbled over the live stream by accident a couple of days ago and kept watching... 7-10 minutes later i was witnessing one of the most entertaining finishes in videogame history i've ever seen! :APPLAUD: lucky me, coming to watch this at the right moment!


25:50 min. is where it's getting super excited...

what an awesome moment; i was super happy for the guys! :WORSHIP: it really got me off the seat!! :ROCK:
freaking epic that was!! and the ApexHound's emotions.... :LOVE: "goooooooooooo.....!!!!"

edit: btw, the game is down to 21 euro at amazon france. including shipping this would be 26 euro. time for me to finally grab it, right!? ;)
 
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PRO_TOO said:
edit: btw, the game is down to 21 euro at amazon france. including shipping this would be 26 euro. time for me to finally grab it, right!? ;)
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I wouldn't. Just my opinion, but I'll tell you why. I'm really starting to get mad with the developers, who have turned their own community against them.

Gameplay feels good, but there's a major balancing issue, and online play is really bad. It also shows that gameplay has some issues in terms of realism. I've not played it for months, and every patch for the game now is all about adding microtransactions in the form of oversized novelty items (I'm not joking - the comments are full of people reporting major bugs and they're completely ignored).



I primarily played online with friends via TGC Tours tournaments, but their standard tour settings turn off power guides and putting becomes, in my personal opinion (bearing in mind we're playing a game and we aren't experiencing the world in 3D so that we can truly judge things, and with no actual putter in our hand to judge the weight of shots), horribly frustrating. It's not much fun. I'm the last person to say "a game should be a game" but without help with the putting, it becomes silly. Yet you have a hardcore audience so the scores are super low, and there's no point playing - some are "birdie every hole" level.

TGC have set up a "Beer League" where you can play with the power guide, plus more assistance, and... The scores are literally "birdie-and-a-half every hole" level.

In both instances, it's easy to see that this game isn't golf. If you were playing a football game and people were scoring 10 goals per game (I'm talking impossible consistency at a professional level, not just winning every game but winning by a level that would allow every player in the team to score once, every single time)... It would go in the bin. The balancing is completely off.

The standard tournaments have no requirements whatsoever - you can play on the easiest settings possible - so there's no point in that either.

So you're left with matchmaking, which is really badly broken. It took them a month to realise that letting people quit when they couldn't possibly win any more, and NOT giving the other person the win, was a really stupid idea. I complained literally every week until they fixed that, but even now you can exploit it by quitting early.



There's a 2v2 matchmaking option, which I've wanted to do with friends since day one - and it's been broken since day one. They've simply never fixed it.



4,000+ views, and a common complaint on their forums. No fix.

It has a ton of potential but the head of gameplay development comes across as combatitive on their forums, and all gameplay development seems to have stopped anyway.
 
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Chris Davies said:
I wouldn't. Just my opinion, but I'll tell you why. I'm really starting to get mad with the developers, who have turned their own community against them.

Gameplay feels good, but there's a major balancing issue, and online play is really bad. It also shows that gameplay has some issues in terms of realism. I've not played it for months, and every patch for the game now is all about adding microtransactions in the form of oversized novelty items (I'm not joking - the comments are full of people reporting major bugs and they're completely ignored).



I primarily played online with friends via TGC Tours tournaments, but their standard tour settings turn off power guides and putting becomes, in my personal opinion (bearing in mind we're playing a game and we aren't experiencing the world in 3D so that we can truly judge things, and with no actual putter in our hand to judge the weight of shots), horribly frustrating. It's not much fun. I'm the last person to say "a game should be a game" but without help with the putting, it becomes silly. Yet you have a hardcore audience so the scores are super low, and there's no point playing - some are "birdie every hole" level.

TGC have set up a "Beer League" where you can play with the power guide, plus more assistance, and... The scores are literally "birdie-and-a-half every hole" level.

In both instances, it's easy to see that this game isn't golf. If you were playing a football game and people were scoring 10 goals per game (I'm talking impossible consistency at a professional level, not just winning every game but winning by a level that would allow every player in the team to score once, every single time)... It would go in the bin. The balancing is completely off.

The standard tournaments have no requirements whatsoever - you can play on the easiest settings possible - so there's no point in that either.

So you're left with matchmaking, which is really badly broken. It took them a month to realise that letting people quit when they couldn't possibly win any more, and NOT giving the other person the win, was a really stupid idea. I complained literally every week until they fixed that, but even now you can exploit it by quitting early.



There's a 2v2 matchmaking option, which I've wanted to do with friends since day one - and it's been broken since day one. They've simply never fixed it.



4,000+ views, and a common complaint on their forums. No fix.

It has a ton of potential but the head of gameplay development comes across as combatitive on their forums, and all gameplay development seems to have stopped anyway.
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thanks Chris, for the detailed reply!

maybe i was just hooked by the video i linked, maybe its because i havent played a golf game for some month, maybe i just want something new.

so what i get from your comment is that i better be playing TGC2019, wich i already own, till there is a new golfing game made for the current gen of consoles!?
you know my prefered aspects of any sports title: gameplay, gameplay and... gameplay!
 
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Get it mate, it's fun. The best aspect of the game is that the difficulty is fully customizable so if you're getting frustrated you can turn on some aids.
 
PRO_TOO said:
so what i get from your comment is that i better be playing TGC2019, wich i already own, till there is a new golfing game made for the current gen of consoles!?
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I would say so.

Even the career mode I can't recommend, because even that is bugged as hell. Firstly, you can't play with another AI golfer (so you're not just on your own all the time) - but people asked for this, so instead of just giving it to us, they introduced this feature where the game cuts away to "clips" of rivals on the course every now and then...

...but A) only the golfers they have a license for, and B) the clips very often don't correspond to their score. So it'll show you someone getting a birdie, then you look at the leaderboard at the end of the hole you're currently on and they actually got a par... So why bother?

Again, this has all been reported HUNDREDS of times, and the devs are ignoring all of it, but they're adding in all the funny hats they can think of - and you know they're getting desperate for cash because they're now selling season passes, which (right now) are just for clothes.

The biggest issue I have with career mode is that the player AI was more advanced in Links 2003 (which I've recently reinstalled). That's a 16 year old game. SIXTEEN.

But even worse than that... There are no tie-break play-offs. If you tie after a gruelling tournament in career mode, you're just given the win automatically, because the devs have pretty much admitted it's too much hard work for them to figure out how to code it and not break the game. Again, Links 2003 had it...

Oh, and you could play with a randomly assigned AI golfer during tournaments on Links 2013 as well.

It's a big-budget-looking game (in terms of their marketing) made on the lowest actual budget possible. The good bits don't come close to outweighing the bad, IMO.
 
fear said:
Get it mate, it's fun. The best aspect of the game is that the difficulty is fully customizable so if you're getting frustrated you can turn on some aids.
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hey fear,
that sounds like a good thing but watching the whole product... yeah... guess ill get my golfing fix via TGC2019.
Chris Davies said:
I would say so.

Even the career mode I can't recommend, because even that is bugged as hell. They cut away to "clips" of rivals on the course, but only the golfers they have a license for (which isn't many), and they very often don't correspond to their score. So it'll show you someone getting a birdie, then you look at the leaderboard at the end of the hole you're currently on and they actually got a par...

Again, this has all been reported HUNDREDS of times, and the devs are ignoring all of it, but they're adding in all the funny hats they can think of - and you know they're getting desperate for cash because they're now selling season passes, which (right now) are just for clothes.

The biggest issue I have with career mode is that the player AI was more advanced in Links 2003 (which I've recently reinstalled). That's a 16 year old game. SIXTEEN.

But even worse than that... There are no tie-break play-offs. If you tie after a gruelling tournament in career mode, you're just given the win automatically, because the devs have pretty much admitted it's too much hard work for them to figure out how to code it and not break the game. Again, Links 2003 had it...

It's a big-budget-looking game (in terms of their marketing) made on the lowest actual budget possible. The good bits don't come close to outweighing the bad, IMO.
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yeah, i get you.
remember when we talked about the new PR guy shouting out via twitter about those "dlc", updates and unlockables...!? we felt it in the guts already... there was hope (if not much)... but i guess you/we were right.

with the console generations in transition now... i really hope for a wave of sports titles that take advantage of the power available now. and i dont mean fps or resolution only, i mean AI, UI, commentary and single/multiplayer options...
 
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This is what the "season pass" gets you.

If I said what I thought of the developers, honestly, I'd have to ban myself.
 
@Chris Davies Wow. If only people would stop buying these sort of absolute rip offs maybe there'd be an end to them and developers would actually have to go back to those radical days of selling a finished game.

The yearly cycle of sports franchises has ruined most of the current sports games. Half the time they are glorified (or not so glorified actually!) patches of the previous version. Also seems that the option of online play has given them an easy pass on not bothering to address the AI as well.

That streamed video above, does the ball really suddenly speed up so obviously such as when it hits a slope on the green.? I was thinking surely it was just a streaming issue, but given what you've said about it now I wonder?
 
Just after this got released, I had an in depth look at the "CPU AI" in this game, and made detailed notes of the "here is blah blah blah on hole 12 taking his shot" cutaways to so-called "Live" CPU AI players taking their shots alongside "us".

After also saving off video clips of these via NVidia's Alt-F9 capture utility, I started to see clear 100% identical shots played by the "CPU AI", there would be a different Pro each time taking the individual shots, and it seemed also to be irrelevant which course you were on. So in the end I captured around 40 video clips, and by that time, many of them were being 100% repeated in future rounds to the pixel............i.e. everything about the distance, the way the ball rolled, ended up the same for those shots that looked to be duplicated, and therefore it is clear that they are/were all canned and pre-captured, and yet the way the game pretends they are (in my best American voice....) "live shots right now over on Hole 15, this............is Justin Thomas, about to hole-out...." is disgusting, because not only do the shots not match on the scorecards as others have mentioned, but these cutaway videos are just randomly taken from a set of possibly 60 or so pre-canned/pre-recorded shots, and yet displayed in game as if they are organic shots being played out at that moment.

The game is bullshit for CPU AI, the only thing going for it is the quite nice detailed courses.

I posted similar comments on the official 2K21 PGA Golf forum and asked dev's to respond, not a single response.

I looked at all the names and job titles of the something like 1400 or so staff members who's names show in the credits...............................not a single staff member's role was listed as "AI coder" or "CPU AI creator", they literally have no CPU AI in the game at all.

At least with Golf Club and Golf Club 2 there were no lies involved, as we all knew the opponents offline or online with humans were ghost balls.
 
mattmid said:
Also seems that the option of online play has given them an easy pass on not bothering to address the AI as well.
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See the post above, if you want to see "not bothering to address the AI" in action. There literally isn't any in this game.

mattmid said:
That streamed video above, does the ball really suddenly speed up so obviously such as when it hits a slope on the green.? I was thinking surely it was just a streaming issue, but given what you've said about it now I wonder?
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Ah that's just me holding down the "fast forward" button (you can fast forward your shot as soon as you've hit it, if you like) in order for the shot to take less time, to try and encourage my opponent not to quit.

Which of course, they did, and they always do.
 
Chris Davies said:
See the post above, if you want to see "not bothering to address the AI" in action. There literally isn't any in this game.
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That's shockingly bad.

If only the Links guys were still making golf games. Pretty sad that it still has all the best content and gameplay some 17/18 years later. The career and season mode on that were great fun and like you mentioned you could even have an AI player playing alongside you.
 
Well the mid noughty's Tiger Woods games, except the 2012 version, had AI real-life opponents playing alongside you, you could even, which is my pet love in sports games, sit back and watch a group of CPU players battle it out against each other. The Augusta version was lovely.

Same with Rory McIlroy's PGA Golf, it had some very believable real-life AI players playing alongside you, encountering the same course physics and dynamics as yourself, these were all console only though.

Sadly the PC was left out for versions of those Tiger games and the Rory game, and so yes, we have to go way back to the Links games for anything resembling AI in a golf game. When I say left out, yes, Tiger Woods 2012 was released on PC, but we can all guess, correctly, that it was the first Tiger game to not have AI opponents.

STOP THE PRESS! Not sure how I overlooked Perfect Golf on Steam (which temporarily gained the name Jack Nicklaus Perfect Golf, I think it has reverted back to just Perfect Golf now), this has very good AI players that go around alongside you, they are sadly generic players though, and so this begs the question as to whether the PC has ever had a golf game with real life CPU AI opponents going around alongside you..............I think not sadly.........PGA 2K21 should have killed that argument, but the lazy tozzers decided to deceive us...
 
dazzer169 said:
Well the mid noughty's Tiger Woods games, except the 2012 version, had AI real-life opponents playing alongside you, you could even, which is my pet love in sports games, sit back and watch a group of CPU players battle it out against each other. The Augusta version was lovely.

Same with Rory McIlroy's PGA Golf, it had some very believable real-life AI players playing alongside you, encountering the same course physics and dynamics as yourself, these were all console only though.

Sadly the PC was left out for versions of those Tiger games and the Rory game, and so yes, we have to go way back to the Links games for anything resembling AI in a golf game. When I say left out, yes, Tiger Woods 2012 was released on PC, but we can all guess, correctly, that it was the first Tiger game to not have AI opponents.

STOP THE PRESS! Not sure how I overlooked Perfect Golf on Steam (which temporarily gained the name Jack Nicklaus Perfect Golf, I think it has reverted back to just Perfect Golf now), this has very good AI players that go around alongside you, they are sadly generic players though, and so this begs the question as to whether the PC has ever had a golf game with real life CPU AI opponents going around alongside you..............I think not sadly.........PGA 2K21 should have killed that argument, but the lazy tozzers decided to deceive us...
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Even Everybody's Golf has cpu AI golfers. It's just the laziness of HB Studios to code a few lines for real time cpu AI. It was just easier for them to do spreadsheet coding with sliders thinking "it's just golf, it's a solo sports game, nobody will complain".
Tbh I don't care that much but at least give us the option to have cpu AI opponents playing alongside just for immersion. We might turn off the option after hundreds of rounds or skip their turns but the option must be there by default.
I still have TW14 on PS3 with the "lost" courses, never played the Rory game because of the bad reviews and I have TW08 on PC with hundreds of courses and mods. But I keep coming back to PGA2k21, even with its flaws I find it fun and relaxing.
 
Chris Davies said:


Tiger's back.

(Just as his injuries will likely force him to retire...)
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What's the point spending so much money in Tiger Woods? PGA2K21 sold incredibly and unexpectedly well. Just allocate the money for a fully featured and immersive career tour. Tell HB studios to work another week developing the AI. It won't take more than a week to code the thing. They won't sell another 1m copies by renaming the game to Tiger Woods PGA2K22 or PGA2K22 feat Tiger Woods.
Oh and get rid of the always online for solo career mode. It's beyond ridiculous.
 
I bought this on the PSN sale and had a quick go with my mate last night. Not too bad, but the decision to have you looking at a random feature on the course to wait for the other player to finish is so bizarre. Even if you can't handle letting me watch him play, at least let me watch his ball move around as I can do before I sink my my own ball. A weird omission on the store page is that there is no mention of online play at all. I thought they had maybe removed it or some weird shit. Surely someone over there has looked at the PSN store to see if the info on the game is accurate.
 
Isslander said:
I bought this on the PSN sale and had a quick go with my mate last night. Not too bad, but the decision to have you looking at a random feature on the course to wait for the other player to finish is so bizarre. Even if you can't handle letting me watch him play, at least let me watch his ball move around as I can do before I sink my my own ball. A weird omission on the store page is that there is no mention of online play at all. I thought they had maybe removed it or some weird shit. Surely someone over there has looked at the PSN store to see if the info on the game is accurate.
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If you both tick "turn order" in the pause menu - after you've both taken one shot each on the first hole - you can watch each other's shots.

That, for me, is the only way to play the game. Otherwise, how do you know how the other guy is doing? And you can jeer each other as you take your shots too. I know people who get really pissed off if you start saying "you're not going up a club here, REALLY" and "you're going to try and chip it from there?!" Which is always fun.

But - sadly - HB Studios are chasing the younger players now, and trying to sell as many copies of the game as possible (abandoning their realism-first roots, which is the only reason I ever bought the game). They think people want to be done ASAP, so by default, everything is set up to be rushed.
 
These guys went from creating a golf sim - when the only golf games available were flashy arcade titles with the most boring "woah another hole in one" gameplay in the world...

...to making a clone of everything they offered an alternative to.

They patched 2K21 to the point of making it impossible to fail, and now?

Look at the state of this.

Get in the bin.

 
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