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PES2010 discussion thread

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Nick up to a point but if say 2K Sports made a great soccer game, that blew away the other titles, with the ability to edit teams and players, they would be sucessful in the marketplace...I just get so tired of all the excuses people want to make for Konami.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Why would any company want to take the risk of making a football game at this point? Fans are divided between 2 major games. Licenses the same.

If we speak fans wise, then i'm pretty sure we all would love to see a 3rd, 4th and a 5th game break into the football gaming market. Maybe one of them being tons better than both Fifa and PES even. I'm pretty sure it would only be better for us fans as it would increase the competition. But question is, would it survive financially?

If we speak company wise; Licenses. Companies would think twice before producing a football game because of licenses being exclusively torn between PES and Fifa.

This is why I think exclusivity has ruined it for the fans. As a fan I'd prefer gaming companies doing their best and competing to the bone for gameplay.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

PES 2010 has to have a better method of using the manual passing system....and hopefully should be all manual.

A better manual passing system yes, all manual, definately not. By making it all manual,you will be taking away completely the individual passing abilities of each player.

And Badgerman,

I use the same freekick technique I have always adopted and find it exactly the same on PES 2009 as it was on the previous versions. I would go as far as to say that the free kicks are just about perfect. Unlike the pathetic penalties.

I can drill them hard over walls, float them over walls and apply as much swerve and dip as I want. All based on the players ability of course. How do you feel they differ from previous versions ? And how are you taking them ?
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Freekicks in PES5 and 6 was perfection.

You could aim at the gap between 2 players heads and, providing you got the power bar a fraction or 2 above the halfway mark then, more likely than not, you're shot will find it's way through.

PES 2008 comes along, exact same mechanics on the face of it, using a good freekick taker...


The ball flies 5 foot over the middle of the wall, little to no pace on it and it flies over the middle of the bar.

I'm sorry, I didn't press that.

2008 introduced with it a pot luck factor. Shots below the halfway mark now floated harmlessly over the bar. I mean, I know that leaving elements of a sports game the same year in year out is a risky move but with freekicks it completely removed the skill requirement. Now it's just have the power and direction within a certain set of parameters and hope for the best.

You lose confidence when you set up a freekick so precisely only to have the end result completely nullify your work.

There are quite a few competent freekick takers in the world. There's a handful in PES these days. It needs to be sorted out because I absolutely loved playing for freekicks back in the day, having my mates hold their head in their hands because they know something awesome is about to occur.

I can still strike a ball how I want, just not where I want.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Pirlo's FK's in PES6 were beautiful.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Surprised to see Football Kingdom posted so early on. There was a massive debate involving that game last year in the same build up thread.

I agree with Badger about the luck factor. You can hit the exact same amount of swerve & power with the same player, but the outcome wont be the same. Konami probably thought freekicks were too easy to score from once players had realised the best technique to use based on the position of the ball and how far out the taker is. To balance it out they seemed to have mixed it up a bit with that little random factor added in.

If I'm honest there was quite a big chunk of goals scored from free kicks in PES6 but may be there should be an inclusion of something to help balance things out a little (instead of the current method). May be pressing a button combination on the pad to make a defender run back to the line without having to manually position him there yourself. May be make the more agile keepers faster to move across their goal to try and save the shots?
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

^Nope! It should be harder to score, as it is in the real world. That means having to be very precise when adjusting power and some difficulty in aiming. I find it odd to have a player clinically aiming for the corner and shooting there. It could be a little like snipers in FPS, the aiming is "floating" slightly around a zone, but the ball goes there when you end up the kicking routine, so the exact position of aiming is not the same when you begin kicking than it finally is when you shoot. Taking that kicking (pressing the button) takes about 200 miliseconds average to raise enough power, for example, would mean there is 200 miliseconds difference between initial and final position of the "aiming". The ammount of movement of the aiming coudl be related to the free kicker skills. Add to this the difficulty to raise the right amount of power (the best way is to make the ammount increase potentially and fast).

And finally ad the swerve while your kicker is doing the animation BEFROE kicking the ball.

Concluding: you aim, but aiming moves like sniper aiming depending on player skills. Then you have to press the shoot button to determine power but the final aiming direction is not the one when you began pressing the button, but the one when you release the shooting button and then the kicking animation begins. While this animation, you can add swerve, backspin, etc...

That system would imply from the user some skills in adjusting power, but also some random aiming "modifier" you can't control and make different outcomes possible for the same power gauge. That way, you could shoot badly and even score.

I know this is not the thread for this kind of things, but I got interested. I do apologize, but overall that kind of complex control is needed to prevent mechanical players and "scripted" passing and shooting. Of course it will be scripted, but it will feel differently because of difficulty and luck.

Thinking about it, what makes Fifa 09 so enjoyable in manual is not the manual process itself, but the DIFFICULTY to repeat something the same way every time, leading players to try different things everytime.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

PES2009 free kicks are too easy IMO you can curl it in with a very average player a bit too easily.
In PES 5/6 you needed a Zico/Pirlo/Beckham or Juninho to really do those magnificent FKs. Also I remember having to take the edge of the box FKs with players that had high curve and low shot power like Del Piero and you would see the results.

In respect of exclusivity it is definitely killing off all competition and as much as we want to think that a game with the perfect gameplay or engine would do well, fact is it wont hold up in sales against FIFA and PES as a result of its appeal on the shelf.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

A better manual passing system yes, all manual, definately not. By making it all manual,you will be taking away completely the individual passing abilities of each player.

I couldn't agree more.

After experimenting with fully manual controls in Fifa I've decided it's not the way forward. Even though PES (back when it was good) has always offered an assisted playing experience by default, this has the benefit of differentiating the good players from the not so good. The attributes of great passers like Pirlo shone through, and the crossing from players like Beckham's was a cut above. Would the abilities of these players make any difference if the control was fully manual? No, in my opinion. Fully manual controls dilute the differences between players - it becomes about how well the player can use a joypad, not the individual attributes of the 11 men in the team. That's not PES, and that's not fun.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I think full manual controls IS the way to go, only that depending on the player's abbilities, the outcome of your actions would be better or worst according to what you ordered!
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I think full manual controls IS the way to go, only that depending on the player's abbilities, the outcome of your actions would be better or worst according to what you ordered!
i disagree and even some of the manual players would too. Tim who argues about manual control doesnt even pplay full manual on passing.

semi is fine but full on manual would be a nightmare
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I agree that fully manual passing would be a nightmare and would take way the fun aspect on the game and also what makes pes so intuitive. I don't own Fifa but tried full manual passing on the demo and it was so hard to master - i think it should be optional as i very rarely use it in pes 09.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

exactly. its very very hard to play on manual using a joypad. it just doesnt work and even the people who like manual dont even have passing set to full manual
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I think the above points are hugely important and I'm still not 100% decided; I think there is a good balance in FIFA though (playing on semi passing). In FIFA Ultimate Team if the team I have has 50% chemistry or less (remember chemistry is nothing to do with how talented the players are individually), then you find the majority of your passes are intercepted, and it's hard to string a good move together. However get it up to 100% and you get players running a lot more intelligently, positioning themselves well to receive the passes, and making it so much easier to pass the ball around.

I love that, because it means your team has to "gel" to play well and that's something you don't usually see in non-management games. The only thing is of course that when you do get the chemistry up to 100% then... What then? It's going to stay that high (if you don't have to rotate the squad too often) and it will make things far too easy. If there's one thing that kills a game for me, it's when that happens.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

good point mate. the thing with playing any sports games is that each team has different stats. wouldnt it be nice that stats are increased and decreased based on YOUR performance in the game?
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Actually, I agree with you on everything, except that manual controls should be in the game. Maybe not for passing, and SEMI passing in Fifa is excellent. Maybe semi with 64 directions for passing would be the perfect blend between the manual feeling and the scriptedness that helps putting the ball near the target.

I agree with Chris about "chemistry" and encourage everyone to try nba 2k9, where fitness, chemistry and how do you play can make you win or loose a match by 20 points easily. That's also because in nba 2k9 I play 40 minutes matches, and in Fifa, the trend is to play 5-10 minutes long per half. I wonder how it really is if you play 20 minutes halves in Fifa. Maybe that has a great importance in it, because in 5 minutes you have to condense a lot of things and scoring a goal doesn't seem so important as it would be in a 40 minutes match? Maybe in long matches, it would be easier to enter on cold/hot streaks making your squad perform better or worse, and that also would help to add variety to the game. It wouldn't feel as forced as in a 5 minutes match where sometimes you receive a goal and your team gets idiot till the end of the match. In 40 minutes matches you know you have 5 minutes to recorver and there's still 10 left to the end of the match, for example.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Actually, I agree with you on everything, except that manual controls should be in the game. Maybe not for passing, and SEMI passing in Fifa is excellent. Maybe semi with 64 directions for passing would be the perfect blend between the manual feeling and the scriptedness that helps putting the ball near the target.

I agree with Chris about "chemistry" and encourage everyone to try nba 2k9, where fitness, chemistry and how do you play can make you win or loose a match by 20 points easily. That's also because in nba 2k9 I play 40 minutes matches, and in Fifa, the trend is to play 5-10 minutes long per half. I wonder how it really is if you play 20 minutes halves in Fifa. Maybe that has a great importance in it, because in 5 minutes you have to condense a lot of things and scoring a goal doesn't seem so important as it would be in a 40 minutes match? Maybe in long matches, it would be easier to enter on cold/hot streaks making your squad perform better or worse, and that also would help to add variety to the game. It wouldn't feel as forced as in a 5 minutes match where sometimes you receive a goal and your team gets idiot till the end of the match. In 40 minutes matches you know you have 5 minutes to recorver and there's still 10 left to the end of the match, for example.


agreed mate. thats why many of us wish 2Ksports made a "soccer" game
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Drekkard i have NBA 2K9 also and i've haven't noticed that...
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

agreed mate. thats why many of us wish 2Ksports made a "soccer" game

It would be awesome if they simply had 0 licenses and invested all the cash into gameplay and a HUGE Editor....as well as FULLY EDITABLE gae modes....Oh well now im just dreamin again :YAWN:
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Actually, I agree with you on everything, except that manual controls should be in the game. Maybe not for passing, and SEMI passing in Fifa is excellent. Maybe semi with 64 directions for passing would be the perfect blend between the manual feeling and the scriptedness that helps putting the ball near the target.

I'd like to make it clear that even though I'm not a fan of fully manual controls, I don't use fully assisted controls in Fifa (sorry to go slightly off topic). I have passing, shooting, and crossing on semi with through balls and lob passes on manual. I hate playing Fifa with full assists, but I hate fully manual as well. Semi-assisted is a happy medium.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

This is NOT my work - but it's a massively funny and useful guide to understanding Konami/Conami PR speak

Enjoy
------

Through my extensive contacts in the upper echelons of Konami (I once drank saki with good old General Nihou, Seabass and a coco-shutner of a guy who picks up Seabass's laundry). I managed to obtain a copy of the PES development team's orginal vision statement for PES2010. The vision statement was heavily edited by Konami's public relations department before being officially released to the press.

Thought it might be interesting to compare and contrast the press release with the original vision statement.

Originally Posted by Konami Press Release
Konami’s footballing legend evolves into the most realistic football simulation ever this Autumn

DECODED MEANING
This autumn, Electronic Arts will be releasing the most realistic football simulation ever. Because we’re say far off the pace now we can't see FIFA for dust, Konami will be targeting young children by releasing the most dumbed down version of PES yet.

Originally Posted by Konami Press Release
Konami Digital Entertainment GmbH has announced that its forthcoming PES 2010 title will benefit from the most exhaustive raft of new features in the series’ history, with every aspect of the game benefiting from key improvements. Major gameplay additions will make PES 2010 the most realistic football simulation available.

DECODED MEANING
We're tweaking a few bits and pieces here and there. Mostly stuff nobody was asking to be tweaked, much to the game's detriment. Minor gameplay additions should help to make PES feel less like an actual game of football than ever before.

Originally Posted by Konami Press Release
PES 2010 is scheduled for release on PLAYSTATION®3, Xbox 360, PC-DVD, PSP® (PLAYSTATION®Portable), PlayStation®2 and mobile phones in the Autumn, and follows months of analysis and feedback monitoring to enhance the game in every area. PES Productions, Konami’s Tokyo-based development team, has collated feedback on the series’ strengths and weaknesses via fan forums, both ardent and casual PES players and press comment, and has incorporated a wide range of requests in the new game. The result will be the most challenging, realistic and satisfying PES to date.

DECODED MEANING
By releasing the game across as many formats as possible, including the BBC Micro and Atari ST, Konami will be stretching our limited resources so thinly that we won't have a hope in hell of making a decent game. We collated a bunch of suggestions from fan forums and stuff, and our staff had a great time making silly hats out of the print-outs at our last Christmas party. PES will be less challenging than ever before, but hey, five year old kids will be able to go online and score goals with Samuel Eto'o within five minutes of purchasing the game.

Originally Posted by Konami Press Release
We have been monitoring feedback and comments on the progression of the PES series for some time now, and PES 2010 will see us implementing a great deal of the ideas players have been requesting," commented Naoya Hatsumi, Producer for PES Productions at Konami Digital Entertainment Japan.

DECODED MEANING
We saw a bunch of fan requests on the internet, but it really sets our teeth on edge to sit there and go through them ‘em all. Jeez, the people who buy our games sure do whine a lot don't they? Apart from which, Seabass goes all silent and moody whenever any negative feedback regarding PES finds its way back to him. It took us weeks to coax the guy out of the stationary cupboard the last time around and we really don’t want to go through all that rigoramole again.

Originally Posted by Konami Press Release
We aim to make PES 2010 a more user-friendly, immediate experience that places the emphasis on getting straight into the gameplay for which the series is famed. PES 2010 will look better, will play better, and will recreate real football as closely as the current hardware will allow.


DECODED MEANING
The XBox 360 has been out for four years now, and the Playstation 3 for three years, but we still can't get our heads around the goddamn hardware. So we developed the game on the Playstation 2 and we'll pay some flunkies to do the next gen conversions a coupla’ weeks before release. The graphics will be soooo last gen, but hey, retro gaming is really cool right now!

Originally Posted by Konami Press Release
The team has expanded for development of PES 2010, with the creation of a number of dedicated departments focused on different aspects of the game, such as online.

DECODED MEANING
We sprang for a couple of temps so Seabass would have some flunkies around to berate and humiliate when he's not feeling so good about himself.

Originally Posted by Konami Press Release
The key additions/changes to the game are: Gameplay: PES 2010 focuses on enhancing the excitement of matches between players, making for a truly challenging experience that will constantly test the player. Intuitive zonal defending will cover spaces and players need to look constantly for new ways to attack. PES 2010 focuses on being a real football simulation, as it requires both strategic play and quick reactions, as in real life. In addition to key out-field elements, goalkeepers are more versatile and with abilities matching those of modern shot-stoppers. The game's referees have also been reworked, with smarter AI elements allowing them to make more balanced calls during matches.

DECODED MEANING
Oh dear. Look, we're sorry and everything, but PES is shaping up to be a real stinker this year. Again. Can somebody think up some marketing type shizzle for the press release? It needs to be vague and meaningless yet sound like we've taken a totally fresh approach this time around.

Originally Posted by Konami Press Release
Improved Visuals: PES 2010 has undergone a major visual revamp, with its celebrated player likenesses and animations now even closer to those of real-life players – including live player expressions to be depicted with an improved lighting system which differentiates between various conditions! Stadium detail is also massively improved, with the grass and other in-stadium elements finely depicted.

DECODED MEANING
Oh man. This next gen hardware is really doing us in. You mean we have to try and do something with all that extra processing power? No really, you're killing us. Can't we all just go back to the Playstation 2?

Originally Posted by Konami Press Release
All-new Animations and Moves: Animations now dovetail into each other seamlessly, with dribbling and shots on goals worked into dribbling animations. More individual skills are also on show, including new flicks and tricks that have a definite showing on the way a game flows. Several elements have been completely reworked, with the dribbling, turning and kicking animations greatly enhanced, while there is a noticeable change in pace when a player passes a ball from a standing position than from within a run.

DECODED MEANING
Seabass spent an inordinate amount of time trying to perfect Steven Gerrard's short bulges this year, and we really didn't have any time left to fix anything else.

Originally Posted by Konami Press Release
Enhanced Master League: Master League has been thoroughly renewed with the enhancement of managerial aspects, which enables users to enjoy managing a team for a longer career lifespan. Seen by many as a key contributor to the series' success, the Master League elements in PES 2010 have been bolstered by far-ranging and vital new additions, dedicated to enriching the mode.

DECODED MEANING
What Master League? Oh. That. All of the feedback we've seen indicates that the fans are happy with the MasterLeague just the way it is. Hey, you can't improve on perfection now.

Originally Posted by Konami Press Release
AI: The Tokyo team has worked to improve the AI of the game, with Teamvision 2.0 implemented. Midfielders and defenders now work together to cover open space and close down attacks, meaning that cover can be provided for lower-ranked defenders. This also has the additional effect of removing soft goals, thus returning PES 2010 to its simulation roots. In terms of attacking, players can also now move several players at once, sending them into different areas, opening up more goal-scoring possibilities than ever before. As such, PES 2010 necessitates a new level of control from the player. Strategic thinking is as important as quick passing, but the new system greatly opens the way the player oversees control of the team. In free kick scenarios, for instance, players can now instigate the runs of the players awaiting the ball in the penalty area.

DECODED MEANING
The players will still move around the pitch in a mystifying fashion. It's just that they are going to make different movements around the pitch in a mystifying fashion. Although calling the blatant match scripting "Teamvision" and pretending that it's really artificial intelligence fooled nobody, we might sucker in a few people this time around if we call it "Teamvision 2".

Originally Posted by Konami Press Release
Match-Day Atmosphere: Crowd reactions to the on-field action are now more varied, with all new chants and cheers. The subtle difference between Home and Away matches will be reproduced, and the crowd will react spontaneously to specific situations in a game, showing their disdain or pleasure as fouls are committed and goals scored. Likewise, the commentary has been altered to offer a fresher, more concise overview of the game.

DECODED MEANING
We've added a new sign in the crowd. It says "Super Dolphin Rikidozan Tokyo Wonder Nelf!"

Originally Posted by Konami Press Release
Exclusive Europa League License: Konami has strengthened its relationship with UEFA and can announce it has secured the exclusive video game rights for the Europa League Licence (formerly known as the UEFA Cup). In addition Konami will be enhancing and developing the use of the UEFA Champions League within PES 2010 to make even better use of the best club football competition in the world.

DECODED MEANING
Kagemasa Kozuki-san gave us an even smaller licensing budget to work with this year than usual. Kind, wise, generous Kagemasa Kozuki-san! So we've gone all out and managed to obtain the license for the least popular football competition in the world. Europa League! Unfortunately, license for Uzbekistan Premier League too expensive.
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Well, I hope for the sake of humanity that the art of comedy itself ends tonight. Because to be frank, ladies and gentlemen, I don't think that we are ever going to top that.

I did, however, appreciate the pretty colours.


edit: Dear lord son, what the hell is that in your sig? I'm trying to think of a context in which you aren't trying to stir shit up, but goodness gravy that is one bad idea if I've ever seen one.
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Badgerman - to be serious for a moment I have PhD in Genetics and it's a interesting but neglected story and a sad medical fact - nothing more or less mate. I'm half-Asian myself and worried about the issue.

People can click on my links for more information but was honestly not trying to "stir" anything up.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

That's all well and good but do you think that video game enthusiasts will be that receptive to issues regarding genetic traits in British Asians? If there were to be a proper discourse as a result then there is going to be a lot of facepalms as a result of the ignoranceness of it all.

Also, see if you can find a press release for ISSPE or Fifa 94 and just look at the amount of bullshit they were spinning out back then. Can you imagine a game with a press release saying "It's going to be alright I suppose"?
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Hmmm.. anyway!

I was disappointed there was no mention of weather physics affecting gameplay in the press release. Something I've had a soft spot for since the early days of playing football games. Oh well
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I was disappointed there was no mention of weather physics affecting gameplay in the press release. Something I've had a soft spot for since the early days of playing football games. Oh well

Yeah, i think that's overlooked in football games nowadays.

They should really make weather conditions effect how the ball and player moves.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I might understand the frustration in you Theodore but do you really have to use that avatar? Does that dude make the game you are frustrated with? As you can see I have Mr. Seabass in mine and his words in my sig. I am frustrated with his work in the last few years and he is the person to be blamed as he's the one responsible imo.

So can you tell me how Adam has anything to do with making the game and you blaming him? He's just an optimistic messenger from my point of view. Why shoot him? If you're the pessimistic kind then that is just you. You can take it out on the game and the ones in charge of it.

As far as I know you have been banned from 2 forums already and I wouldn't like to go down the same route with you.

So can you change your avatar and concentrate on sharing your mighty philosophical doctorate degree thoughts regarding PES, Please? Posting on this forum with that avatar makes us out to be your "partners in crime" when we have no issues with fellow forums. If you have an issue with the man then keep it between the two of you.

This is about PES. Period.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I thought that trisomy was some sort of a next generation threesome....

Anyway what happened to SeaBass? he got fired eventually? or he is dedicating his life to study his beloved penguins??
 
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